mmmmm, okay. I guess that makes plenty of sense on a bigger scale. I still think on the individual, hold up a piece of paper in front of a camera and post it on the internet level it isn't very compelling.boots said:
lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics
- Thread starter Giftfromme
- Start date
Escapist Community, I have lost a lot of faith in you today.
Seriously. Those pictures are not meant to be laughed at, nor are they ridiculous demands (Except maybe number 2).
You're not clever, and your shit ain't funny. Learn a little respect and analyze the power struggle you play in every day, and where you lie in it. You might understand why it sucks to be on the short end of the social standard stick.
Seriously. Those pictures are not meant to be laughed at, nor are they ridiculous demands (Except maybe number 2).
You're not clever, and your shit ain't funny. Learn a little respect and analyze the power struggle you play in every day, and where you lie in it. You might understand why it sucks to be on the short end of the social standard stick.
Yes it's a movement like, like Occupy Wallstreet is a movement. Like Anon is a movement. It's an idea, and unfortunatly that idea still carries on with those that engage in Transphobia and not enough of those that don't hold those beliefs are pushing back against it.boots said:
Yes, I very well could go to work writing a thesis about it. Perhaps I will one day. Not now.
It is not an ill-informed opinion, however. It's a thing.
Oh cool, another "oh woe to me! I've lost all faith in humanity! etc. <Insert obligatory Futurama picture here"Murais said:
Thanks for that one bro!
That's not original bro, no need to get on a high horse and act all mighty. Have you actually read the replies? Some people disagree with me. They would be on your side, except for the nonsense way your post is phrased.
I'm not actually ridiculing feminism, just these people who think it can solve all their life problems without them having to do anything. I don't agree with all of the tenants that make up feminism, but the movement itself is fine. It's just scrubs like these who don't give it any thought and then do silly shit like get their photo taking identifying with the extremely silly views. Yes it sucks being on the short end of the social standard, but hoping it will all go away by identifying with a movement is a rather silly way of going about things.
I pray your next post has more thought put in it, but if that can't be managed, don't try to get on a high horse about this. So I'll give you another crack at this.
AHAHAHA FUCKING FEMINISTS THINK THEY HAVE A POINT AHAHAHAHAHA WHAT A FUCKING JOKE THEIR MOVEMENT IS
Anyway, I don't have more time to laugh. Too busy sticking my dick into women's mouths without their permission. Which I also find inherently hilarious!
Edit: if you can't tell i'm being sarcastic: i'm being sarcastic
you utter assholes
Anyway, I don't have more time to laugh. Too busy sticking my dick into women's mouths without their permission. Which I also find inherently hilarious!
Edit: if you can't tell i'm being sarcastic: i'm being sarcastic
you utter assholes
Was he trying to be original? Was he trying to be clever? Or had he actually lost a bit of faith in The Escapist's community over this? I'm going to wager it's the latter.Giftfromme said:
Yet not a political movement, right?boots said:
It's an idea. a very credible idea and one I don't disagree with, but you seem offended I'm pointing out one of it's glaring flaws. It's a thing, it's a train of thought that needs to get slapped out. I know to date there are still feminist conventions and groups that don't allow M2F Transwomen. No, i'm not going to bother to look it up because you're right. I'm lazy, but I know what I've learned before and it's one of feminism few flaws. Deal with it, don't just try to shut me up because "Ohhhhh were not all like that, STFU"
Straw man: Isn't that like a whiteguy telling a black guy in America that racism doesn't exist anymore because the majority of whites aren't?
However I'm done talking about this for now. Something for me to kick the can down the road. Good day to you.
I get another chance to impress a stranger on the internet. Joy.Giftfromme said:
They're not scrubs. They're people expressing their beliefs. Beliefs with a decent amount of conviction and introspection backing their consideration. You can say you want more, and you can criticize that they are not doing enough, but when you are taking people and their beliefs at a superficial value as a subject of derision, that is literally the textbook definition of ridicule.
And yes, I have read the comments. While there are many people who agree with me, there are more so who do not. This is something I might even be able to stomach if I did not believe that much of the aggression in this thread stems from ignorance of feminist ideals. Think there's just one kind of feminism? WRONG.
Then I read a string of misogynistic comments, and I got angry. There is no moral high horse here. I do not think I am more right than you. Or that my righteousness gives me greater station. But I do believe you are wrong. And some of the comments I have seen here have made me ashamed to be a part of this community.
I do not mean that as dramatics, but as an extension of being a part of a social group comprised mostly of young adult, middle class white men. You learn more than you think just being what you are. Part of growing out of your mold is being able to empathize and advocate the plights of others.
You are correct, sir!Andy of Comix Inc said:AHAHAHA FUCKING FEMINISTS THINK THEY HAVE A POINT AHAHAHAHAHA WHAT A FUCKING JOKE THEIR MOVEMENT IS
Anyway, I don't have more time to laugh. Too busy sticking my dick into women's mouths without their permission. Which I also find inherently hilarious!
Edit: if you can't tell i'm being sarcastic: i'm being sarcastic
you utter assholes
Was he trying to be original? Was he trying to be clever? Or had he actually lost a bit of faith in The Escapist's community over this? I'm going to wager it's the latter.
I'm just glad I had actually used "latter" in the proper context. I'm not very good with my latters and my formers.Murais said:
I get angry every time people use that word incorrectly. Being critical or disagreeing with a womens movement (their beliefs, their arguments or their positions) is not the hatred, dislike or mistrust of women. Nor does MovieBob hate movies because he critiques them.Murais said:
Not all beliefs are as valid as the next; nor is any belief above ridicule by those that disagree with it. The "whoneedsfeminism" brand of "feminism" is, after careful consideration, research, deliberation and empathy... deemed entirely worthy of my ridicule and distain. It treats these people like children and demands that society bend to the emotional sensibilities of weak willed individuals who've never been taught to deal with their personal problems like normal well adjusted adults. It's a culmination of a sheltered, privileged life being raised without an instilled sense of personal responsibility and too much entitlment. I have little respect for those that rally against an invisible oppressor like spoiled brats believing that feminism will fix their personal issues.
Your accusations of ignorance and misogyny are as misguided as these "feminists" need for "feminism".
If they were being straight-forward and honest they'd all start with, "I feel entitled to stuff my viewpoint down other people's throats whether they like it or not, because.."
Most universities are named after cities or places. It's just that a lot of cities and places were named after guys.lacktheknack said:
Of course, they weren't named after their actual names. New York was named after King James II, whose surname was Stuart and not York. Melbourne (my hometown and my university) was named after William Lamb [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Lamb,_2nd_Viscount_Melbourne], and Sydney was named after Thomas Townshend. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Townshend,_1st_Viscount_Sydney] Canberra was named after the Aboriginal word for the hollow between a woman's breasts, Brisbane was named after a river (which, admittedly, was named after a man) and Perth was named after some place in Scotland, and probably was a man's name at some point.
The whole complaint, such as it is, is a little silly from my eyes. Maybe that's because I live in a state named after the most powerful monarch in English history. If you don't know what that means, you're probably not a fan of steampunk. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Victoria]
I disagree with your first statement entirely, there's a very reasoned and interesting debate going on in these pages. I normally don't post on here much any more but I was genuinely moved to get involved with this discussion and I'm proud to be a member of this community, one that is debating a very polarizing subject.Murais said:
The rest of your post, well, based on his first post I would be whole heartedly behind you until #215, Giftfromme came back strong and I'm genuinely not sure how I feel. OP comes of incredibly puerile in the face of his latest input, surely he could have done a lot better with his reasoning but from the standpoint he presents at #215 I can understand why he is frustrated by these pictures (I don't agree with him but I can now wrap my head around his position).
First off, gender inequality is real, it's an issue we should not allow to continue and is quite frankly disgusting in the light of all the historic work in civil rights during the 20th Century.
However, what we seem to have reached is a little thing I like to call "The Greer Threshold". It's the nexus of feminism as a theory and feminism as a practice. Feminism and Feminist theory are inherently correct, the parity they aim to achieve between genders (and in more modern times sexual identity and roles) is one you can't argue. Sorry, no dice, you will never convince me that women and men aren't equal, that sex between two consenting adults in any configuration is wrong or that there is no issue to be debated. Nothing upsets me more than "I have no experience of this issue, therefore it cannot be relevant today", it deeply saddens me to think I share this planet we these sorts of people.
However, I don't think Giftfromme is one of these people, I think he and I share a common problem, that Feminism has been wildly misrepresented by many people, specifically those claiming to support the cause. Hence "The Greer Threshold", she herself moved from one of the most notable and successful exponents of Feminist theory, but at some point lost her way, becoming this horrible, backwards presence that seeks only to highlight small, individual instances of sexism. You can probably tell I am not her biggest fan.
Yet:
Oh son, you had best come correct when you post up something like this, especially if, theoretically at least, we should be on the same side.Giftfromme said:
1: You're actually right, but you're missing such a crucial point that he's making. Why did he think it was "unmanly"? Because social expectations are that he will use his penis on her vagina. If that sounds stupid, let me put it another way, how many times in your life have you seen or heard fundamentalist idiots talking about homosexual acts as "unnatural"? More than a few I'm guessing. We(that is, heterosexual males) are born into a world where despite huge steps towards equality, men are still "on top" both societally and in their bedrooms.
2: You've skipped the university picture in both OP and #215. You put it up as an example of stupid so I assume you don't get it. If you do I apologise. He's making a point that very few large institutions have been named after important women, unless a group is set up by a woman (Oprah Angel Network) or directly related to them (Marie Curie Cancer Research) the chances are they'll pick a man to name things after. Specifically schools, hospitals and other public buildings.
3: Again it's a societal comment, if a friend of yours gets a compliment from a girl in front of you, you probably don't think "I'm ugly", you probably don't care. Watch adverts on TV, women are presented as turning heads, getting whistles. How is the average person supposed to live up to ludicrous social expectations?
4: I dislike the term "rape culture" because it tars everyone with the same brush. Basically, rape culture is things like laughing at rape jokes, but I understand why people get defensive about this, I enjoy dark humour, no matter how tasteless and obviously I'm not going to rape anyone, that's a given. But there are those who see rape as acceptable and not inherently wrong, like the recent story of the college sportsmen in the US raping a teenager, then joking about it on video. I see these two things as separate, it's a difficult position to hold and not a popular one to say openly but I don't believe that sick jokes and "rape is ok" are anywhere near the same thought process. That said, his sign should be "because there is more I could do to help prevent rape" and I think that's something all men can agree on.
5: Giftfromme old chum, for once you and I are on the same page. Here's why: Armpit hair is one of the great "false battles" of feminism, while it is the rejection of a gender expectation, there is very little benefit as statement. Shaving of the legs is an entirely different matter and one that is understandable given the fact that they are more often on display in female fashion. Yet under the arms is rarely seen and to my mind this is an attempt to generate an issue that has little or no bearing in practice.
6: Ok, we both agree that society doesn't agree with her. I disagree with you that it's ok for society to think that way (I see your health issues point and raise you evolutionary necessity will cause a percentage of our population to be heavy, regardless of how we live our lives). But this gives me an opportunity to bring the hammer down on something I really despise in current feminist practice. "Patriarchal beauty standards" is as stupid a phrase as I've ever read, why do I think this? Because I'm a white heterosexual male who is also a feminist and I believe that women need to collectively understand that while men invented these standards,they are now perpetuated almost exclusively by women. The female editors of Vogue and Cosmopolitan (and many other fashion publications) are telling women what female beauty is. For this to change, women need to acknowledge this issue and deal with it, blaming the Patriarchy is true in most instances but here it's becoming a rather insidious scapegoat.
7: I think this is more to do with the typical thought process that follows "Gender studies?" to "Oh, she's a feminist" to every major stereotype about outwardly feminist women. That's not fair. But take it from someone who did Drama, we're all on a long road to course acceptance with her Gender Studies and your Writing , I don't know whether Medics and Engineers will agree but I think they're all valid.
8: Yeah, you see this right here is a tricky one. I get what she means but in the same breathe I can't honestly disagree with you. I'm not well versed in feminist readings of art history so I'm not best placed to comment. However, my two cents is that art is not there to set societal benchmarks, it's purpose is to express not to dictate, so I struggle to see the oppression nudes are placing on the female form. I would refer anyone to the work of Egon Scheile and his nudes to support my position.
In closing, Giftfromme you made some interesting points which I enjoyed reading, but you should have made the points from #215 in your OP. Given that you're obviously an intelligent guy, those one sentence jibes don't fit what you were capable of saying.
If I was going to do this, mine would read "I need feminism because men and women are equal but not everyone sees it yet"
Geo Da Sponge said:Maybe you should actually talk to these people, asking questions about their stated beliefs and why they believe them before you laugh at them. Chances are their beliefs can't be neatly summarised on a little card like that; while it may be foolish of them to try and communicate it through that, it doesn't make them "generally foolish".Luna said:Geo Da Sponge said:...Seriously? Alright, time to bust out the image. I am busting out the image now.
The image has been bust out now.
I mean, just... What's the point? The purpose of this thread is literally point and laugh at people who think differently to you? About feminism of all things? Yeah, that'll end well.
They deserve to be laughed at for generally being foolish.
Basically, stop acting like you know about someone just because of one thing they wrote. No discussion is being helped by pointing and laughing at someone you disagree with. I mean, the thread is now going in useful directions (albeit in the same clusterfuck as always), but just gathering around to laugh at people's poorly explained beliefs? Nah, I don't see the point. Just seems small minded to me, to mock someone's views without actually discussing it with them.
Many of the 'I need feminism because' pics I've seen revolve around strawman arguments, a failure to understand certain concepts as well as occasionally ignoring the basic differences between men and women. I'm not here to laugh at the ones that make sense. Just the foolish and unjust ones.
If someone states something that is foolish, and they're not doing it for some strategic reason, (eg an anti-feminist who writes a stupid sentence on a placard in order to move people away from feminism), then I would absolutely describe that behavior as foolish. I can't say for sure that they are fools. But they are being foolish.
Unfortunately, I am no longer Escapist staff and have not been for, oh, about a year or so.Gentleman Adventurer said:
That does, however, mean I am no longer bound by staff restrictions and perfectly able to call the vast majority of people posting in this thread out as the misogynistic chauvinist douchebag nimrods that they're acting like, however.
Do people try anymore? Or is it just you? I can forgive your post if you put in no effort and closed your eyes while writing it, but I feel bad if you actually believe that.John Funk said:Unfortunately, I am no longer Escapist staff and have not been for, oh, about a year or so.Gentleman Adventurer said:
That does, however, mean I am no longer bound by staff restrictions and perfectly able to call the vast majority of people posting in this thread out as the misogynistic chauvinist douchebag nimrods that they're acting like, however.
Also closing a thread because you don't agree with the opinions expressed within is a bit childish too.
But my, what a well thought out post. You have nothing else to add to the discussion, but feel justified enough to throw out some nonsense because you feel better than the "majority"? How do you define the majority in this case? Many people thought my arguments were nonsense. Many thought the thread pointless. You say "vast majority" which is what, like 90%? lol do you pay any attention to what you write?
Misogyny (pron.: /mɪˈsɒdʒɪni/) is the hatred or dislike of women or girls.
You got that from our posts? Do you know how to interpret words? Do you know how to analyse things? How many people actually implied that in their posts? Whether or not you agree that laughing at these people is acceptable (most people didn't think so) has no bearing on they feel about women. None at all. I can safely laugh at these people and yet understand women's issues (to the extent that I can) and not have to hate woman because I think the people in the first post are clowns. One does not follow the other and I have no idea where you got that from.
One person could post issues on games and I can think that person is a clown and laugh at them. Does that mean I hate games? Someone can post extremely silly opinions on feminism (I've explained my reasoning) and I laugh at that person. Is it right to laugh at that person? It's up to you to decide. Buy drawing the conclusion that I hate woman from that is just plain silly. Like childish level of silly.
I think it's the way these issues are framed that causes me to laugh at these people. I suppose I can say that others feel the same. That has absolutely nothing to do with how we feel about woman in general. To draw such a conclusion is silly on it's own, but to do it in the manner you did, well I feel bad for you bro.