lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics

[emeraldrafael]

THe only problem i have with the feminism movement is it tends to now no longer be so much about being equal as it does subjecting men the way women say they're "subjected" but not openly saying it. yes theres a problem when a woman earns less than a man for the same job just cause shes a woman, just like its wrong if its also racially or sexual preference motivated.

outside of that, the "men idolize a certain figure" is shit, because women do as well for men. and they shouldnt care. if the guy wants you for a certain figure, he's an ass hole. if you cant find someone else, youre either being shallow yourself and not looking deep in the depth charts or are just attracted to ass holes, both of which are personal issues you need to resolve yourself before things chang (and the same can be said for men by replacing the world ass hole with *****). no one should care what someone tells you you should look like because its your damn body and no one is going to look perfect. men, just like women, are not perfectly sculpted pieces of plastic, and the image should not be applied to either gender.

what we need is a everyone to take a pill of not giving a shit when it comes to someone talking about what you should look like.

though I think the first two pics are more jokes than anyhting else. the fourth I dont know, they may be serious they may not.

 

[Lilani]

#7 lol that don't make sense, but ok!

Actually, number seven was true up until (and a bit during) the feminist art movement. There's a guerrilla feminist art group in New York called the "Guerrilla Girls" who made this billboard:

That was in 1989. No matter how "liberal" it likes to think it is, the art world tends to be very backward and behind in their values. It took some major, controversial movements for non-white and non-male artists to start earning respect, and most of those movements have occurred in the last 50 years.

And the media is no different. Moviebob has said two things that I think accurately sum up Hollywood's views on black people and women. Hollywood likes two flavors of black people: badass, and comic relief. And in this week's Intermission, one of the kinds of movies that needs to stop being made, "Seemingly Fabulous Upscale Career Woman Still Somehow Incomplete Without A Man." Anytime you have a female lead in a movie, it has to be about her getting a guy. No matter who she is or what she wants, by the end of a movie she is "completed" with a man. And if it's not about getting a man, then the point of the story has to be that she can get along well enough without a man.

And racial minorities get the same problem, as well. We like to look at movies like Remember the Titans and the Blind Side and pat ourselves on the back about how we've conquered racism and sexism, but for some reason Hollywood is still loathe to have a minority or a woman in a movie without their role having something to do with the fact that they are a minority or female. To me, we won't truly be over these things until we can make movies that don't feel the need to point it out with a great big neon sign when the lead character is a non-white or non-male.

 

[Lilani]

Anytime you have a female lead in a movie, it has to be about her getting a guy.

Kill Bill
Deathproof
Lilo and Stitch
Snow White (yeah she gets a guy at the end but the rest of the movie is about her not getting killed by the Queen)
Alice in Wonderland

First of all, Snow White is all about her getting the guy. Her very first song is about how she wishes to find love, and her spell can only be broken by true-love's first kiss. The entire story from beginning to end is about her falling in love, and then being put into a situation for her true love to find her and save her so they can live happily ever after.

Also, yes I understand there are exceptions to every rule. If you think I'm going to sit here and try to claim otherwise, then I'm afraid you are going to be disappointed.

But I will say, here are some movies from 2012 alone that have white male leads that could have had any other race or gender of lead without changing the main plot of the story (or could easily be changed with a few more gender swaps--if they had a wife or girlfriend, swapping them out with a husband or boyfriend) (and before you stickle this too, I'm not saying switch the gender and race, but gender or race):

Premium Rush
Battleship
Looper
Man on a Ledge
The Lucky One
Piranha 3DD
People Like Us
Hit and Run
Paranormal Activity 4
Silver Linings Playbook
Killing Them Softly
The Collection
Playing For Keeps
Deadfall
Parental Guidance

Note: I haven't seen all of these movies, but looking at their plot synopses I don't see any major changes a change in race and/or gender would make to their collective content or message. So if I'm wrong about any of them feel free to call me out.

And again that's just from one year of movies, and only the ones I immediately recognized the names of while scrolling down the list. I know there are some good ones from this year as well, but looking at the big hits I sort of get the impression the default setting for most movies not about race or gender is white and/or male.

I'm not limited to major roles anymore? Cool.

Se7en
Pulp Fiction
The Avengers and Nick Fury
All Star Wars movies with Mace Windu

I could go on and on and that's just minorities.

Damn, accidentally leave out one word and you've got to jump all over it. I did mean to say it there and I saw it after I made the post, but decided not to edit because I didn't realize I'd be dealing with a stickler. I've never seen Se7en and I haven't seen the Star Wars movies with Mace Windu since they were in theaters, but I believe Pulp Fiction and Nick Fury both fall into the "black characters must be badass" fallacy (and and involve the same actor). Not that I'm saying they're bad films or characters, but as far as "breaking the mold" they do not really do that.

I tried to address the other parts of your post, but for fuck's sake you split it into so many damned individual quotes it all went to hell when I was trying to trim them up. Sorry, but fuck that noise. I will say for your response to the poster being from 1989 and probably outdated, that was sort of my point. I never tried to claim the statistic applied to today, because the point of having that there was to show how recent this problem is. Sexism may be gone in certain ways, but it's not long gone by any means. And I'm not saying that's good or bad, just that I thought it was interesting and historically relevant to the thread.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Well I was going to get involved but we're on page 8 and the rage is already here so...

 

[Winthrop]

snip.

Assume anything I don't comment on I agree with.

#2. You acknowledge that this makes little sense, but I think it makes less than you seem to. Most buildings named after a person are named after a founder or someone who has contributed to it, either through inspiration or donation. If I donate money to a building and they call it the Fraser Center, it is named after me, a man, but I would not call this sexism. Namings of buildings are more of a testament to a contributor than anything else.

Furthermore, I feel if something was done by a man it isn't wrong to acknowledge they are male (Though it is stupid to claim it as men being better than women). For instance, in history we were told it was offensive to say "founding fathers" and to say "framers" because founding fathers limits the group to men. The group was, however, all men. Women were excluded due to sexism of the time, which is indeed wrong, and it is not the fault of women for not having been in the group but I do not see how saying there were no women is offensive. If anything past examples of sexism should be acknowledged and used as bad examples not buried away.

#3. It is VERY poorly worded. Until reading others posts I thought her complaint was that men should sexually harass people more, even if they do not find them attractive. Which would be really stupid.


#5. This should be eliminated, but it goes for both genders. While women do receive more trouble, it is far from gone for men. Women catch flak for things like having hairy armpits or legs, but do you think men wouldn't be mocked if they shaved? Guys on our swimteam in high school had to shave a lot of their body and people would make fun of them for it (not just men, women too). Furthermore, men with little muscle tone get mocked and are told to work out more. I, and a lot of other men, feel bad from time to time for not having well defined abs. Many people, male and female, view me as almost useless because I am not the best at carrying heavy things. Again, women do have it worse, but a lot of people seem to not realize men go through the same thing to a lesser extent.

#6. You are right on politics, but I have seen fat female lawyers.

That said, in my mind the issue is that men should be skinnier, not that women should be fatter. Being obnoxiously large is unhealthy and isn't something that should be encouraged. Body shaming is wrong, but high fat diets increase the risk of a number of problems.

#7. "Just as valid" is too vague of a term for me to get on board with this.

From a respect/income standpoint,a PHD in theoretical physics requires a much great amount of work than a gender studies degree. Because of this, someone with a different degree may deserve more respect, acknowledgement, or pay. Does someone with a physical education degree get the respect of a Medical Doctor? No, the dedication and workload to get a medical degree is much greater.

From a use standpoint, there is a use, but it is not industrial. This puts it in the same category as philosophy, theology, and the arts. These are also often viewed as useless. I don't believe this is a gender concern so much as a result of a societal focus on scientific progress and wealth over the humanities. Its hard to get work in gender studies because there are few jobs in gender studies. As such, the degree will not get a job as easily as an engineering degree.

#8. Nudes are not all sexual. There is a difference between pornography and pictures that include nudity. I have a friend involved in a life drawing class. They draw nudes of both a man and a woman, neither of whom is the stunning image of beauty. I have seen his drawings of both of them, and neither seems to be objectifying or sexual. They portray emotion, often enhanced by the nudity.

Traditional drawings and sculptures of Shiva, a Hindu god(dess), portray her/him shirtless, sometimes with breasts, but are no more sexual when they portray him/her as a female as opposed to when he/she is a man.

If your statement is that the viewer will objectify the art, I agree, but to say all artists objectify the females in a female nude as her sign does is simply not true.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I've never seen Se7en and I haven't seen the Star Wars movies with Mace Windu since they were in theaters, but I believe Pulp Fiction and Nick Fury both fall into the "black characters must be badass" fallacy (and and involve the same actor).

I think the word you're looking for is "trope". A "fallacy" is an error in reasoning. A "trope" is an overused device.

Mace Windu appears as though he was meant to be bad ass. He stands around glowering a lot, and drops god awful dead pan lines like "This party is over!". Generally speaking though his character has the depth of a thin mint and the movies are almost completely unwatchable, so there's not even enough there to get offended by, unless you're offended by bad cinema.

You should really watch Se7en though. It's an excellent film. And Morgan Freeman does have a slightly atypical role in it, although I'm quite certain someone could make a cogent argument that he was filling the part of the Magical Negro [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magical_Negro].

 

[Lilani]

I've never seen Se7en and I haven't seen the Star Wars movies with Mace Windu since they were in theaters, but I believe Pulp Fiction and Nick Fury both fall into the "black characters must be badass" fallacy (and and involve the same actor).

I think the word you're looking for is "trope". A "fallacy" is an error in reasoning. A "trope" is an overused device.

Ah, you're right. I think my mind is a bit off today: I've had to medicate three times for a migraine, so my head is at that "headache is nearly gone but not quite" level of pain which makes me feel a bit lethargic, but then the caffeine from the medication is making me feel a bit jittery on top of that. So overall I'm feeling fine, but if I think too hard about these things I sort of feel like shit, lol.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Ah, you're right. I think my mind is a bit off today: I've had to medicate three times for a migraine, so my head is at that "headache is nearly gone but not quite" level of pain which makes me feel a bit lethargic, but then the caffeine from the medication is making me feel a bit jittery on top of that. So overall I'm feeling fine, but if I think too hard about these things I sort of feel like shit, lol.

Take Magnesium. It's meant to help a ton with migraines. I have a friend who swears by the stuff.

Alternatively, my girlfriend takes a pill for hers that almost knocks them out completely, but I can never remember what it's called, so I'm basically just taunting you with the fact of its existence. =(

 

[Lilani]

Take Magnesium. It's meant to help a ton with migraines. I have a friend who swears by the stuff.

Alternatively, my girlfriend takes a pill for hers that almost knocks them out completely, but I can never remember what it's called, so I'm basically just taunting you with the fact of its existence. =(

Hm, thanks. I'll remember that. I don't get them often, but when I do[footnote]Cue the most interesting man in the world[/footnote] they really take over my entire day. My mom gets them pretty often though, I'll ask her if she's ever tried magnesium.

 

[Darmani]

Dude in terms of black leading men you can't tell me there are not a dearth of roles in mainstream movies. That one of the biggest pool of recurring black male leads tend to come from the same sources usually every five years but who's the next hot white guy is from all over.

As for female roles. Yeah lots of romantic comedies. but there are dramas and dramas not about hooking up, rare though they are. Julie And Julia. Georgie Rules, I mean its not a short list. They are prominent due to a combination cheap, basic, interchamgable and relatable. But if you seriously think the mass amount of romantic fiction is flooding the market due to the oppression of women by The Patriarchy. Need I remind you Eat PRay Love was an adaptation. Men and women like this stuff. Its just got problematic attachments. Not the least ifthe man isn't a signigicant character hurdle/goal you end up with a message men start to parse as hostile and get scared off by (see Hunger Games, and some seasons of Dr. Who where the girls just dump guys and do whatever no judgements)

That said yeah we have issues with gender presentation. But feminism still very much starts in some cases with some really problematic assumptions like "rape culture" and other issues and do no one any favors on "opening dialogue" so much as dictiating what the new moral standards will be because the feminists dun figured it all out.

 

[Sir Thomas Sean Connery]

This thread is making me incredibly uncomfortable....

I mean, I'm a strong believer in the concept of prismatic personality. The idea that you're a different person in different situations.

As someone who EXTREMELY different when I'm on teh chans as opposed to here, this is just confusing my brain....

On one hand, rationality and equality and all that..... And on the other, LEL STUPID FEMINISTS.

 

[Arfonious]

#1 This man enjoys a penis. That makes him bisexual. It appears to me the issue is he is being told that men aren't bi-sexual. This is not a femenist issue. This is an issue about the male gender role. He doesn't know how to help himself.

Liking it up the ass != beeing gay/bi

The act of pegging has nothing to do with beeing sexually attracted to men.

 

[Sonofadiddly]

People don't seem to know what irony is anymore.

No one knows what irony is any more.

Seriously, that shit has like, eleven different definitions now.

English is dumb.

You have a point there. Stupid English.

 

[Do4600]

Alright yes, these are from 4chan, but I've just linked the images, not the thread. The thread is full of the usual idiots, but yeah look at the pics.

Spoiler

#1 So? You're sexually liberal, good job, what you want is to be accepted by the hegemony who is sexually conservative, what does that have to do with defining and establishing social equality for women?

#2 Universities are also named after women, it's disproportionate I agree, but that's because women's rights didn't really take off until the end of the 19th century.

#3 That's really all on you, if you feel you have to be verbally harassed to feel attractive, you may have problems.

#4 Well you know now whatever you know, if you perceive a problem you can solve it.

#5 You can thank Hall & Ruckel for that idea, I really don't care.

#6 Patriarchal beauty standards? Established to sell shit, capitalistic beauty standards.

#7 Valid in relation to what other degree? A degree in biochemisty certainly has more application, a degree in gender studies probably has a few more applications than one in history, I just don't know what a person with a degree in gender studies studies or would do for a living, while I know that a person with a history degree studied history and will probably get a job as a professor or in data entry.

#8 That's just a naive idea; Nudity=exploitation.

 

[gravian]

Alright yes, these are from 4chan, but I've just linked the images, not the thread. The thread is full of the usual idiots, but yeah look at the pics.

Spoiler

So yeah some silly pictures we can all (well I hope at least most would) agree that are damn silly. This kind of nonsense is what stops us having a proper dialogue on actual gender issues in society. Most of these people subscribe to feminism as a way to fix any issue they have, as if accepting feminist ideals in society will make all their problems go away

Anyone agree? Disagree? Anything in between?

Oh god...I know her! We were in the same classes at school in most subjects, and some in sixth form college too. She's actually a really nice person, very intelligent but not stuck up about it. She said she wanted to be a teacher after uni and helped me out a few times. Hope she's getting on well...

I'm afraid that being fat isn't a feminist issue, though. It's one established throughout the whole of Western society, based on the principle that when food no longer becomes scarce and unaffordable people who over-consume and eat large amounts of indulgent food are seen as weak-willed because they are making no effort to reduce their unhealthy body form. As a result you see society stereotype them as lazy or being slobs, and they are seen as unattractive party because of that and because, well, slim-bodied people are seen as more aesthetically pleasing and attractive, I guess.