lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics

bastardofmelbourne

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TheKasp said:
Yes. A lot of people think this way. Everywhere around the world. I would just point out to the reactions about Cross Assault last year where a woman was harassed by her teammates in front of a camera - and the gaming community yelled out how she enjoyed it and that she should feel good for them to aknowledge her beauty.
That has a lot more to do with the insularity and hostility of the fighting game community than anything else, though. The fighting game community is like a self-sufficient cancer throbbing inside the belly of gaming culture, seething with xenophobia, pride and overwhelming envy, occasionally lashing out into chaotic seizures of elitist anger and directionless hate.

I went a little off-base there. Anyway, obviously those kinds of misogynistic neckbeards exist. It's just that they're a very vocal minority. Most geeks - hell, most men - would be uncomfortable watching a woman get sexually harassed the way that lady on Cross Assault was. It's just that it happened on a show about the fighting game community, while she was surrounded by members of the fighting game community that she herself was a part of. It was only allowed to occur because of the tremendous insularity of the community itself, which has been basically stuck in the 80s arcade mindset for over twenty years.

Basically what I'm saying is that pointing to the Cross Assault incident and saying "a lot of [gamers] think this way" is like pointing to a Westboro Baptist Church rally parade around calling for a homosexual holocaust (homocaust?) and saying "a lot of [Christians] think this way."
 

Smeatza

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I need feminism because there just aren't enough political nutjobs to satirise these days.
 

Bara_no_Hime

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BloatedGuppy said:
There is no context for #2, except context that we choose to invent for it.
How do you mean? It's an example of the overwhelming patriarchy. There are hardly any universities or colleges (or schools of any sort really) named after women, and tons named after men. That's a bad thing and needs to change.

If you want to talk lack of clarity, I think some of the others are more guilty than that one.

And please don't think that I'm saying that ANY of them are particularly well done. In most cases, you have to know something about feminist theory to get what they're talking about. These images are generally a bad method for communicating the thoughts and ideas they are attempting to communicate. That's why people are making fun of them. But each and every one is based on an established argument - which is why the previous poster I quoted was able to explain them.

Case in point - I know that what I said above is exactly what the guy in that image means because he's specifically referencing a fairly major feminist argument (unfair naming conventions of buildings, schools particularly).
 

BloatedGuppy

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Bara_no_Hime said:
How do you mean? It's an example of the overwhelming patriarchy. There are hardly any universities or colleges (or schools of any sort really) named after women, and tons named after men. That's a bad thing and needs to change.

If you want to talk lack of clarity, I think some of the others are more guilty than that one.

And please don't think that I'm saying that ANY of them are particularly well done. In most cases, you have to know something about feminist theory to get what they're talking about. These images are generally a bad method for communicating the thoughts and ideas they are attempting to communicate. That's why people are making fun of them. But each and every one is based on an established argument - which is why the previous poster I quoted was able to explain them.

Case in point - I know that what I said above is exactly what the guy in that image means because he's specifically referencing a fairly major feminist argument (unfair naming conventions of buildings, schools particularly).
I can see what you're trying to say, but I have trouble wrapping my head around it all the same. It seems the equivalent of a man holding up a sign that says "I need affirmative action because my boss is white". If that sign had said "I need feminism because only 0.5% of universities are named after women and 67% are named after men and 11% are named after badgers", it would have been a more compelling demonstration of the issue. For all we know his university is named after a living saint.

But I tend to agree with you in terms of the thread. Most of those, I suspect, are cases of poor communication and poorly worded messages rather than out and out bizarre beliefs. Goes to show the world needs more English Majors to go along with the Gender Studies, I guess. =P
 

Calibanbutcher

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bastardofmelbourne said:
TheKasp said:
Yes. A lot of people think this way. Everywhere around the world. I would just point out to the reactions about Cross Assault last year where a woman was harassed by her teammates in front of a camera - and the gaming community yelled out how she enjoyed it and that she should feel good for them to aknowledge her beauty.
That has a lot more to do with the insularity and hostility of the fighting game community than anything else, though. The fighting game community is like a self-sufficient cancer throbbing inside the belly of gaming culture, seething with xenophobia, pride and overwhelming envy, occasionally lashing out into chaotic seizures of elitist anger and directionless hate.
snip
Dear God Man, which fighting games have you been playing?

And I like fighting games by the way, does that mean I am part of the "fighting game" community?
 

Maevine

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What you thought you were posting: "Haha, these peope are so silly with their feminism and gender problems!"

What you actually posted: "Haha, I want everyone to shame and dismiss these people for their feminism and gender problems!"

If feminism is working for these people, more power to them. There's no need to mock them because you don't personally agree with feminism or whatever.
 

90sgamer

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#1 This man enjoys a penis. That makes him bisexual. It appears to me the issue is he is being told that men aren't bi-sexual. This is not a femenist issue. This is an issue about the male gender role. He doesn't know how to help himself.

#2 I am assuming the university is private. So what if it's named after a man? Most scholars are men, most wealthy scholars are men (wealthy enough to contribute a metric shit ton of money to found a university), and fifty years ago virtually all scholars, wealthy or otherwise, were men. Is this same man taking a stand against the tradition of assigning female genders and names to impressive ships? I highly doubt it.

#3 Feeling unattractive because one has never been harassed reflects a personal problem, not a societal problem. This person needs a therapist, not femenism.

#4 This is the only possibly valid point, however, I disagree there is a rape culture. Rape is a deeply psychological phenomenon that's been present in virtually all cultures across all of human history. It's an expression of power and control more than an expression of objectification, lust, or love.

#5 Rejecting the beauty standards of the society you live in is going to cause some ripples in one's life. This is to be expected. Society is not obligated to accept every notion that enters every person's head. These beauty standards apply to men, women, and even animals. Heads will turn when anyone, man, women, or pet, defy the beauty standards that exist. Think about how you feel when you see a hairless cat with wrinkled semi-translucent skin and ripples of muscle movement underneath. Well shame on fucking you for feeling that way. amiright?

#6 You loving your fat body is fine. The real problem is not everyone else loves your fat body, and that makes you upset. Get over it. Most societies value hard work and look down on gluttony and laziness. Having a fat body takes no effort and is typically the result of gluttony and/or laziness. Some exceptions apply, such as genetic obesity and disease, but they are uncommon. Why should your lack of effort be celebrated? On the other hand, people who are fit and healthy looking are celebrated, as they should be. That shit takes dedication. Do you celebrate the efforts of your coworker who comes in and does the minimum required to keep his job? Doubtful.

#7 Your degree is only as useful as the market agrees it is. What does the knowledge and skills of your degree allow you to contribute to society, and is that thing you can contribute in high demand? If not, then you chose the wrong degree dumbass.

#8 Men's bodies are also the subject of art. You are assigning a sexual value to art, but art is about shape, color and form. Some people see a nude sculpture and appreciate the form and the craftsmanship. Some jerk off. That's art, everyone interprets it differently. It appears you like to interpret things in such a way that your dissatisfaction is justified. Have fun with that.
 

bastardofmelbourne

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Calibanbutcher said:
Dear God Man, which fighting games have you been playing?

And I like fighting games by the way, does that mean I am part of the "fighting game" community?
UMvC 3. Mostly. I'm not very good.

By "fighting game community," I'm really referring to the die-hards who gather in defunct internet cafes for fight nights and bring their own retro-style controllers. They're a minority even amongst people who play fighting games, but they're a vocal and hostile minority, and they're the guys responsible for that Cross Assault bullshit.

I'm sure you're not one of them, if that was your inference. It's like DOTA. I can say that the DOTA community is a steaming pile of slick, writhing maggots devouring the long-dead corpse of a proud wildebeest, even though I have friends who play DOTA who aren't asshats. Because every goddamn time I play, I inevitably encounter one of these bloated, pustulent vermin, raising their fang-toothed circular maw high into the air and swaying from side to side with a terrible, hypnotic rhythm while lividly condemning my choice of items, my choice of hero, my choice of abilities and my choice to not be an awful excuse for a human being this morning.

I don't like the fighting game community. Or the DOTA community. I'm having a bit of fun with that :p
 

Arqus_Zed

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I need feminism because I don't feel like female genital mutilation should be a thing.

What?

Oh, we're talking about how the patriarchy influences the self-image of women?
How you want to grow your armpit hair and be applauded for it?
How it isn't fair that fat women are being judged equally on their physique as fat men?

I'm so sorry - yes, you're right, those things ARE more important and more worthy of attention than women getting their labia and/or clitoris cut off.
 

Sonofadiddly

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I need feminism because of this thread.

Actually, it would be more accurate to say I need more money in education because of this thread. People don't seem to know what irony is anymore.
 

Terminal Blue

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Giftfromme said:
For number 1, that is actually up to him how he feels.
I'll get back to you on this one, because it's 90% of the reason why you're not getting any of this and deserves a full response.

Giftfromme said:
For number 3, I don't understand what you're saying there. She is saying that people think if you're not getting harassed on the street, then you can't feel attractive.
Using pink text is an internet shorthand to indicate sarcasm. She's being sarcastic. It's not even subtle sarcasm, it's incredibly blatant.

The point she's actually making is about how women on both sides the beauty standard are subject to different forms of ill treatment. You're reading it as some kind of "woe is me, I wish I was attractive" thing, when in fact it's kind of the opposite.

Giftfromme said:
And what the hell is rape culture? You are very high and mighty in your post, just assuming we both share the same definition. What does it mean?
This is something you would know if you had read about it, maybe you should have done so before posting.

I already explained it earlier, so let me put that explanation in spoiler tags.

"Rape culture" is a slightly 80s concept and one I personally have no real time for, but the actual theory behind it is pretty simple. It's a response to several key facts about rape which emerged a few decades ago when people started seriously researching it:

* Rape is far more common in our society than most people realize.
* Rape in our society is overwhelmingly committed by men against women or against other, lower status men.
* Rapists are very seldom aware that they have committed an unacceptable act, they generally believe that their own aggressive or violent behavior was simply part of the normal role distribution of sexual relations.

Faced with this, there are two possible explanations.

* Men are simply driven compulsively to rape by some factor of their anatomy, neurology or endocrinology which they can't control and which makes them dangerous to all women (and certain other men) who are close to them.
* Elements of our society and the way we raise men tend to predispose them towards aggressive or controlling sexual behavior, and this can be directly linked to the historical division of sexual practices into "active" and "passive" positions which accompanied traditional gender roles.

The feminist argument is the latter one.

"Rape culture" is a term for any broader social factor which results in that widespread confusion between rape and "normal" sexual conduct. Precisely what will qualify for this will vary depending on the background of who you ask, but it does not mean that all men are rapists, or indeed that only men support rape culture.

So the answer is that it means none of the things you have said, although it could be argued that our society does overwhelmingly "accept" certain forms of rape and an overwhelming number of rapists do go free, neither really has anything to do with rape culture.

But again, we're getting into actual social theory here which we're going to have to come back to.

Giftfromme said:
Number 6. Yes that is an internal confidence thing.
No. It's not.

I need feminism because loving my fat body is apparently a radical concept

The way this is phrased is deliberately structured as to imply that she already does love her body, so where is the lack of self-confidence. Again, this is a point about the existence of the beauty standard, and the fact that certain types of bodies are valued socially over others. They are valued socially irrespective of whether they are valued personally.

The second half of your point is hugely overstating the scope of what is being said. The reason there is opposition to the beauty standard is because it applies unequally to men and women. Women are still overwhelmingly judged as aesthetic objects in a way which men are simply not.

It's easy to sit there and talk about how all you need is "self confidence" (which probably makes a great deal of sense if you assume this is little more than ugly chicks who want cock too) but it's not, what we're actually talking about here is a completely different thing called social acceptance. There are numerous avenues of social acceptance available to men, perhaps the reason you've never noticed any need for it is because you've never had to worry about achieving it. You can be intelligent. You can be physically capable. You can be a hard worker, you can be sexually successful. Just about anything really. For women, all of these things remain secondary to whether or not you are appealing to men. That is the beauty standard, and it's extremely destructive to our society.

So no, the point is not about creating a world in which everyone is equally attractive, it is about creating a world in which there are multiple paths to social acceptance for both men and women, and in which both are equally appreciated, on both a personal and social level, for the contributions they make to society. "Self confidence" doesn't even enter into it, again, it's kind of the opposite of the point. This woman is saying she has self confidence and this actually contributes to her lack of social acceptance.

This is something which very basic background reading would help you make sense of.

Giftfromme said:
The degree is as valid as the sum total of everyone else's opinion of it.
..which completely contradicts your earlier point that we should all just be able to create value from nothing. Clearly this is a self-confidence issue, right? If she clicked her heels and wished upon a star, her degree would be the most valued degree ever, wouldn't it? Or are we admitting that social value sometimes extends beyond the individual..

This isn't about what will get you a job. Actually, my experience is that Gender Studies isn't bad at getting you a job unless you're looking for some soul destroying management position. It's an interesting talking point in interviews, it requires a high level of critical thinking and it gives understanding which is useful in navigating real situations.

The problem is, most people don't know what Gender Studies is. Most, in fact, don't even know what gender is. Gender Studies is a way of looking critically at something which most people (particularly men) not only think they understand already but are in fact hugely invested in. I mean, what's to know, right? Men are men and women are women and we're all equal now anyway so obviously we don't need to look any deeper or ask any questions about this. It's just all those damn Feminazis (who I can't name, but who totally exist) stirring up trouble and trying to cut our dicks off.

Feminism is the original Gender Theory, if you understand feminism (irrespective of whether you agree with particular feminist writers) you will at least understand what Gender Studies is, why it exists and why it's an important area of human knowledge.

I can think what I like about your degree, but I can understand why it would be interesting and important. I'm not going to claim it's ideologically brainwashing you, I'm certainly not going to claim that it's useless because I can already write (badly) and that's all we need to know and I'm not going to decide your degree is actually about talking rather than writing because I don't understand what writing is. In Gender Studies, you have to put up with that shit all the time, it's one of the reasons I kicked off at this thread.. Legitimate opinions are not based on willful ignorance, and yeah basic feminist literacy irrespective of opinion would help that.

Giftfromme said:
If the females who volunteered (unless they're being forced for some reason) feel this way, then they shouldn't pose for those art schools. Simple. And women's bodies won't be objectified in the art school anymore.
Did you miss the recurring opening line, which says "I need feminism because.."

Because some would argue that's exactly what we need feminism for.

..and because I wonder if maybe you're confused about what feminism is, let me spoiler my second explanation from the previous post.

There is no "feminist movement", there has not been a "feminist movement" for about 30 or 40 years now.

Feminism is a series of ideas relating to the social inequalities between the genders. That's all. The ideas have become popular not because groups of incredibly powerful women came and imposed them on society, but because they were tested and generally found to be a convincing explanation not only of the lives of many people (particularly women) but also of many aspects of our social world which were previously difficult to explain. Thus, almost everyone today accepts most of them.

That is why you have been able to unconsciously accept so many feminist principles, many of which were considered outrageously radical as little as a few decades ago, without necessarily regarding yourself as feminist at all. The name you give these ideas does not matter. There is no movement. There is nowhere where you sign up and get your feminist card. There is no special protest or conference you have to attend in order to be a "proper" feminist. At one point, being a feminist was very contingent on social activism. Today, it is not. "Feminist activism" is coalitional and issue-driven. There is no feminist manifesto which tells you which issues you support, it's just that some of the theoretical writing lends itself to particular political projects, and not always the same political projects. There have been several quite famous occasions when feminists have found themselves in direct opposition with regards to major exercises of social activism.

This particular photo campaign was not sanctioned by the World Feminist Council in an effort to promote its self image, it's a group of people who fundamentally feel upset at how a concept and body of literature which has personal meaning to them is maligned. There are not "thousands of splinter sects" who deviate on how to interpret the holy tome of Feminist law, there are individuals who are motivated by shared knowledge and/or ideals. That's what a political coalition is.

And now we move on to the main point.

To summarize your argument, and correct me if I'm wrong, you're arguing that we should all stop caring about what other people think of us and instead just see ourselves exactly as we want to with absolutely no regard for anyone else, that this is something we can all do and which is (or should be) entirely unaffected by the actions of anyone else.

Firstly, a person who genuinely has no regard for society is suffering from a personality disorder. Like it or not, we all care to some degree about what other people think of us (unless we are extremely mentally ill) because it is the only rational response to the situation we live in. We are social creatures who are extremely dependent on one another not just for our emotional needs but also for our basic physical needs.

Even the words we use and the concepts they relate to are learned from other people. We didn't generate them ourselves at the moment of birth. They were not whispered to us in the womb by Jesus. Language is a system of communication, in order to be that it requires more than one person. Thus, I cannot sit here and magically decide that the meaning and value of concepts is entirely different to what other people say they are, because those concepts are the product of social interaction. Without the ability to interact and make a mark on the social world, words and ideas are meaningless. They may as well be schizophrenic word salad.

Feminism gives us a vocabulary to talk about and question concepts which would otherwise merely be unconscious presumptions. It isn't something "outside of yourself" any more than the words you're using now or the ideas behind them are "outside of yourself" because you had to learn them from someone at some point. Oh, that's right. Do you think you're entirely original? Do you think you're the only person in the world who has ever come out with these kinds of arguments? I can tell you you're not. Your arguments are remarkably typical in fact, and if indeed you are sitting and there and purely self-determining without any kind of outside influence (because that would be so unhealthy) why is that? Why are your arguments so incredibly similar to those I've heard hundreds or thousands of times before?

It's because the underlying logic of those arguments, the unconscious assumptions that you accept and the vocabulary which you use, was all learned, just as it was by millions of other people. There are coherent social forces which have made you what you are, and one of those forces (perhaps the most important of all) is your gender. It's probably the first thing anyone said about you when you were born, and from that moment onwards it was present in every aspect of your upbringing just as it was for everyone else. Do you imagine that this had no effect on you? Do you imagine that it's just pure coincidence that you overwhelmingly tend to make the same choices as others of the same gender, because I can pretty much guarantee you do. I do too. In fact, we all do.

..and that's why we need feminism, because feminism was the first attempt to give us a set of conceptual tools to examine the effects of these forces on who we are, and it remains essential to understanding how to use those tools.
 

gazumped

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These pics can be hit and miss. I think I posted a few on a thread where the OP expressed an interest in being better educated on the basics of feminism which I thought were really good, but I had to wade through some kind of vapid ones to get the ones that made a particularly good point.

SaneAmongInsane said:
Yes it's a movement like, like Occupy Wallstreet is a movement. Like Anon is a movement. It's an idea, and unfortunatly that idea still carries on with those that engage in Transphobia and not enough of those that don't hold those beliefs are pushing back against it.
When RadFem declared that only cis-women were allowed to their gathering last year (I think? or maybe this was 2011) every single feminist blog and page I followed (and I follow a fair few) were up in arms about it, telling people to boycott RadFem, insisting that transphobia is anti-feminist. Some wrote to RadFem and published their emails, which had a rant at them about how they were being unfeminist for denying their trans sisters entry. There were arguments over Twitter about it. There's been other times I've seen transphobia get called out by feminists but that one was a particularly big and lengthy deal.

Either I follow the only trans supporting feminist groups out there or you aren't following very many. :/ (Edit in case it sounded like I was being sarcy: I genuinely don't know which it is, it's easy to assume that what you observe is the norm and it's hard to tell who's right or wrong when both sides are just going off of their own observations.)

LGBT issues in general seem to be discussed a lot in general on feminist blogs, transgenderism is like the ultimate proof that societal gender roles are a load of bullcrap so as you can imagine a lot of feminists kind of love that it's a thing.
 

DudeistBelieve

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lisadagz said:
These pics can be hit and miss. I think I posted a few on a thread where the OP expressed an interest in being better educated on the basics of feminism which I thought were really good, but I had to wade through some kind of vapid ones to get the ones that made a particularly good point.

SaneAmongInsane said:
Yes it's a movement like, like Occupy Wallstreet is a movement. Like Anon is a movement. It's an idea, and unfortunatly that idea still carries on with those that engage in Transphobia and not enough of those that don't hold those beliefs are pushing back against it.
When RadFem declared that only cis-women were allowed to their gathering last year (I think? or maybe this was 2011) every single feminist blog and page I followed (and I follow a fair few) were up in arms about it, telling people to boycott RadFem, insisting that transphobia is anti-feminist. Some wrote to RadFem and published their emails, which had a rant at them about how they were being unfeminist for denying their trans sisters entry. There were arguments over Twitter about it. There's been other times I've seen transphobia get called out by feminists but that one was a particularly big and lengthy deal.

Either I follow the only trans supporting feminist groups out there or you aren't following very many. :/

LGBT issues in general seem to be discussed a lot in general on feminist blogs, transgenderism is like the ultimate proof that societal gender roles are a load of bullcrap so as you can imagine a lot of feminists kind of love that it's a thing.
What was the resolution to that though? Did Radfem back down? Did fellow feminist flat out not attend?

I'm not making a point, google tells me nothing other than people blogging about it.
 

AwesomeDave

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I'm all for equality... but that's not going to happen with the way our society is currently working. Things like having to have a certain amount of women or minorities hired by a company leads to (possibly) less competent people getting jobs just based on the absurd notion of "affirmative action".

Example: A pharmaceutical corp. is hiring a new research head. They have 2 applicants; a male, who holds a masters in Pharmeceutical sciences; and a woman with a PhD in Bio-chem. The man is more qualified for the job, but the job gets given to the woman because there are no other women working in the dept at the time.

That example may cost humankind a revolutionary breakthrough in treating a formerly incurable disease.

Basically, you cant have equality while segregating yourself.

On to another facet of equality. I don't hit women, being brought up with the chauvinistic view that it is wrong for a man to hit a woman. Should I change my thinking and start hitting women for the same things I would punch a guy out for, just for the sake of your equality?

If you want equality in one area, you have to accept it in all.

INB4 woman beater comments: I'm not saying I'm going to go out and start hitting women... just bringing up a point. If women want full equality, anything I would do in front of/to another man should be just fine to do to a woman, right?
 

BloatedGuppy

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Sonofadiddly said:
People don't seem to know what irony is anymore.
No one knows what irony is any more.

Seriously, that shit has like, eleven different definitions now.

English is dumb.

evilthecat said:
Using pink text is an internet shorthand to indicate sarcasm.
When did THIS become a thing?

[font color="Fuchsia"]TIL 90% of my forum posts should be in pink text.[/font]
 

gazumped

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AwesomeDave said:
On to another facet of equality. I don't hit women, being brought up with the chauvinistic view that it is wrong for a man to hit a woman. Should I change my thinking and start hitting women for the same things I would punch a guy out for, just for the sake of your equality?

If you want equality in one area, you have to accept it in all.

INB4 woman beater comments: I'm not saying I'm going to go out and start hitting women... just bringing up a point. If women want full equality, anything I would do in front of/to another man should be just fine to do to a woman, right?
Yes. But I'd suggest you stop resorting to violence against anyone at all rather than just subjecting more people to it. o_O

SaneAmongInsane said:
What was the resolution to that though? Did Radfem back down? Did fellow feminist flat out not attend?

I'm not making a point, google tells me nothing other than people blogging about it.
Radfem was massively stubborn about it but respect for them in the feminist community did seem to drop significantly (from what I was reading, anyway). Often it takes a while for people to admit they're wrong so there may be hope yet... although I sort of don't trust any group that sticks 'radical' in their group description...

But I just meant, where you said earlier that you didn't support feminism 'cause of the transphobia, one of the reasons I do support feminism is because I've found it's also very supportive of sexuality and transgender issues (even if the transphobes stick their fingers in their ears and go lalalala, same could be said about anything feminism tries to involve people in discourse on), but I guess it really depends on what feminist groups you're exposed too.
 

Darmani

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sharpe95th said:
I need feminism because 14 year old fucking idiots with superiority complexes on the internet believe that because they've never raped anybody themselves that sexism doesn't exist.
Actually the problem is when doing all of that they are accused of not doing enough or still being guilty on the grounds a woman somewhere is offended. Usually white middle class and in the prime of dating life. IE its another way a woman can exert pressure over their behavior WITHOUT being in a relationship (not even dating but a socially recoprcal one) by means of her hurt feelings being worth change in his character.

Now technically... it is. But rarely is it earned by convincing its worth these 'idiots' time discussion opening with such charming terms as "rape culture" or defense of arm pit hair (not even all the women in the us shave or have to) or being fat is beautiful.

Part of it is that women want chivalry WITHOUT the double standard suffering, it seems, from the idea how they how they are idealized and treated under sexist pursuit and society is "normal" as to an extra they aren't entitled to that men often provided on the assumption of similar payment (usually their subservience). Surely everyone shares their feelings, speaks nice to them, offers them favors, and negotiates on prices, fixes things, moves items and furniture at request, etc etc. And if not these are not special exceptions but the way it should be for everyone. It comes off as mockably naive.

This does NOT mean let us ignore women or worse only see them primarily as trophies or needing to be pretty and thus worthwhile and thus vile otherwise. But holy hell when it come to sharing grievances on gender there is stuff that feels real, relevant, honest, and then there are these pictures which seem very much accusatory, a form of attack, and trading "I'm a victim" for moral authority to be obeyed when they crack "do what I say."

Feminism works for me when I see women being and acting as.. well

You know there are female senators, programmers, lawyers, they do cool stuff that benefits society? That a woman made cobal, one of the first programming languages and worked for the navy. What about the educators? Video game programmers and writers who aren't just ya know for girl things but everyone for you, that they've done this with no acknowledgement even when they've been as critical as dudes or dude like icons? (so yes youre gender studies degree really is deserving of scorn for it being both impratical and self serving). What about the female soldiers, officers, and etc from real life and what they do, not just female actors who take on action roles, not that that is bad but perspective on reality.

I felt the same way about my own race and role models. MY mom never gave up letting me know there black men out there from all walks of life who had accomplished amazing things and were part of society and deserved acknowledgement and respect. This let me know wwhat was possible and cool.

Feminism often comes off as passive aggressive bitching with society at large which holds no relationship with them.
 

runic knight

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boots said:
SaneAmongInsane said:
Yes it's a movement like, like Occupy Wallstreet is a movement. Like Anon is a movement. It's an idea, and unfortunatly that idea still carries on with those that engage in Transphobia and not enough of those that don't hold those beliefs are pushing back against it.

Yes, I very well could go to work writing a thesis about it. Perhaps I will one day. Not now.

It is not an ill-informed opinion, however. It's a thing.
Comparing decades of academia and political campaigning - not to mention millions of pages of published works - to a protest that lasted a few months and an internet group? Try harder, please...
Gonna have to stop this here.

Feminism today is not decades of academia and political campaigning with million of published works. It is the descendant of such a thing, certainly, but as I mentioned in my previous post, things have changed some. The concept and idea has changed and split and evolved and devolved and all sorts of things. The very nature of the concept of feminism is argued between sex negatives and transphobic and all sorts of other branches. Still seems like the term is fought over more for branding rights then anything else though. Name recognition of "feminism". But the comparison to movements like Anon or Occupy is there. A general, ill-defined goal and method based around an equally ill defined philosophy held together by people who bicker and fight among themselves as much as with others. That feminism can call its route to the women's suffrage and equality fights of history is interesting I guess, but doesn't exactly make the comparison not valid. In fact one could probably find ideological routes in both the other movements mentioned, with Anon's general goal of freedom and free speech and Occupy's communist parallels and all.