Let's Not Ban RapeLay
Banning videogames about rape sounds like a good idea. Here's why it's not.
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Banning videogames about rape sounds like a good idea. Here's why it's not.
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Let's Not Ban RapeLay
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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I disagree on the last bit, I am for that ANY content should be allowed as long as its properly marked. I dont want a government or any official organ to decide for me what is good for my mind or not. I'm perfectly happy to do that myself. As long as no real kids are hurt making such a game, I say bring it on. I'm not interested in playing something like that myself, but I like to know that I can if I want to.sinclose said:
Banning things that do not hurt anyone is beyond stupid. No one is forcing anyone to play it, so if you dont like it, dont play it.
Not at all. As I said as long as no actual alive beings are being harmed I'm fine with it. Even if some (twisted individuals) could argue that real kids would not be physically harmed the emotional scars would be horrific. So NO, I do not condone real kiddie porn in ANY way.sinclose said:
What people choose to draw, or animate or whatever is their own choice however, as well as what media to consume.
I see videogames as a medium for entertainment AND art and as such there should be no limits as long as you are not hurting anyone in the production.
Edit: Offensive material is just offensive, and anyone can just choose not to watch/play it, dont make the choice for everyone else. Offensive material is fine, but I repeat, as long as no one is harmed (in any way) in the production.
I am a strict constitutionalist, with a heavy emphasis on the First Amendment. I don't believe ANY form of speech or non-violent expression(and a rape GAME is not violent) should be banned or censored. It's all about personal responsibility folks. If everyone had it, then we wouldn't be discussing this, but because some people can't wrap their minds around the concept, we get 'scandals' like this.
Utter bullshit.
EDIT: DOH! First amendment, not second. I r a idjit.
Utter bullshit.
EDIT: DOH! First amendment, not second. I r a idjit.
What people don't get, is that playing video games doesn't provoke those urges (let it be rape, blowing stuff up, shoving someone's spine up their urethra, whatever), it releases those urges into the game. I've played more violent games than most people, and in real life I'm pretty much a pacifist.
It's like saying that death metal (which I also dig) lyrics causes you to go murderous. If I'm not going bat-shit bonkers, who would?
It's like saying that death metal (which I also dig) lyrics causes you to go murderous. If I'm not going bat-shit bonkers, who would?
Umm...
I think I already said something like this last year when this came up, but...
Its not even for sale outside of Japan, no other country or organization has the right to tell Japan what it should and should not ban.
When this story broke ONE YEAR AGO, I remember reading a piece about it on a women's rights site. And as much as I support women's rights and well, everyone's rights for that matter... I have to disagree with the crux of their argument for banning games like Rapelay. Their argument was more or less as follows: Games like Rapelay normalize violence and will lead to increased sex crime rates.
Umm... first off... that sounds a bit like "everyone who reads porn will commit rape at some point" argument. Which turned out to be false by the way. It has been psychologically proven that most rapists aren't after the sex, they're after power.
Secondly, the game itself isn't normalizing violence. In truth, women's-rights-organization's-site-name-I-can't-remember, you are normalizing sexual violence by saying that any game is doing so. Here's why: By saying that all it takes for me, you, anybody to go out and commit rape or murder or whatever horrible crime, is one game, you are normalizing violence. By saying that, you are telling every rapist, murderer or any other kind of violent criminal, that it isn't really their fault, that every heinous act they've committed is because they were exposed to one random piece of media at some point in their lives.
So no, we shouldn't ban it. And neither should Japan, but that's their call.
I think I already said something like this last year when this came up, but...
Its not even for sale outside of Japan, no other country or organization has the right to tell Japan what it should and should not ban.
When this story broke ONE YEAR AGO, I remember reading a piece about it on a women's rights site. And as much as I support women's rights and well, everyone's rights for that matter... I have to disagree with the crux of their argument for banning games like Rapelay. Their argument was more or less as follows: Games like Rapelay normalize violence and will lead to increased sex crime rates.
Umm... first off... that sounds a bit like "everyone who reads porn will commit rape at some point" argument. Which turned out to be false by the way. It has been psychologically proven that most rapists aren't after the sex, they're after power.
Secondly, the game itself isn't normalizing violence. In truth, women's-rights-organization's-site-name-I-can't-remember, you are normalizing sexual violence by saying that any game is doing so. Here's why: By saying that all it takes for me, you, anybody to go out and commit rape or murder or whatever horrible crime, is one game, you are normalizing violence. By saying that, you are telling every rapist, murderer or any other kind of violent criminal, that it isn't really their fault, that every heinous act they've committed is because they were exposed to one random piece of media at some point in their lives.
So no, we shouldn't ban it. And neither should Japan, but that's their call.
To expand on your point about books:
Ann Rice back in the times of 1983-85 published a series of novels that were, for all intents and purposes, an 'Erotic' (I use the term so loosely, it's libel to fall off) retelling of the tale of Sleeping Beauty.
They were about nothing but rape. There is perhaps 3 cases of consensual sex (1 of male-to-female consensual) in the entire godforsaken series. The entire series is disgusting, and outside of just the pure rape, some more horrifying things happen (I absolutely refuse to write any of them out).
Is Ann Rice forbidden from writing? Are her books banned? No, she's one of the most popular modern novelists, over many more talented individuals.
I am not defending the content of the game or of the books, they are both repulsive to me. I'm merely pointing out that video games seem to have...well a double standard.
Ann Rice back in the times of 1983-85 published a series of novels that were, for all intents and purposes, an 'Erotic' (I use the term so loosely, it's libel to fall off) retelling of the tale of Sleeping Beauty.
They were about nothing but rape. There is perhaps 3 cases of consensual sex (1 of male-to-female consensual) in the entire godforsaken series. The entire series is disgusting, and outside of just the pure rape, some more horrifying things happen (I absolutely refuse to write any of them out).
Is Ann Rice forbidden from writing? Are her books banned? No, she's one of the most popular modern novelists, over many more talented individuals.
I am not defending the content of the game or of the books, they are both repulsive to me. I'm merely pointing out that video games seem to have...well a double standard.
Take away the rape games and perhaps the people with these urges will just have to go off and rape some real women. Because that's so much better.
Have any of you ever played a Video game in anger to blow off steam? Kill a couple of thousand people in Dynasty Warriors, Curb stomp the CPU in a Beat 'em Up, Shoot a few hundred guys in an FPS because you had a bad day at work? Or your girlfriend left you? Or your mother is dieing of cancer?
Yeah... we all have, there is something therapeutic about letting go of that emotion in a healthy and safe environment where no real people can actually be harmed.
I can see the same sort of psychology that could follow something like Rapelay. Sexually frustrated guys who are getting their kicks or exploring fantasy's in a safe environment where no one can actually be harmed. Rather than just bottling those feelings up until the individual explodes and takes it all out on a real person.
Have any of you ever played a Video game in anger to blow off steam? Kill a couple of thousand people in Dynasty Warriors, Curb stomp the CPU in a Beat 'em Up, Shoot a few hundred guys in an FPS because you had a bad day at work? Or your girlfriend left you? Or your mother is dieing of cancer?
Yeah... we all have, there is something therapeutic about letting go of that emotion in a healthy and safe environment where no real people can actually be harmed.
I can see the same sort of psychology that could follow something like Rapelay. Sexually frustrated guys who are getting their kicks or exploring fantasy's in a safe environment where no one can actually be harmed. Rather than just bottling those feelings up until the individual explodes and takes it all out on a real person.
As long as it's only for sale in Japan. This is hard to justify, but at least Japanese society can deal with games like this.
Imagine what would happen if this game came out in the West?
1)You're going to hear a massive uproar from the media, which is bad publicity for all video games since we aren't exactly the most beloved form of entertainment to exist.
2)Communities will speak out and start spewing their own ideological crap, suddenly religions gain opinions on rape games.
3)It's a slim chance that this game will ever cause anyone to actually go out and fulfill a fantasy, but by god if it happens, even if it's only once, it will be, not a scar, but a laceration on the face of the video game industry.
So yeah, we live in a civilisation with a very...open voice..,unless you want that voice to be heard, I think it's best to put rape games back in the cupboard out of reach, not of the ignorant hands of children, but the ignorant hands of adults.
Imagine what would happen if this game came out in the West?
1)You're going to hear a massive uproar from the media, which is bad publicity for all video games since we aren't exactly the most beloved form of entertainment to exist.
2)Communities will speak out and start spewing their own ideological crap, suddenly religions gain opinions on rape games.
3)It's a slim chance that this game will ever cause anyone to actually go out and fulfill a fantasy, but by god if it happens, even if it's only once, it will be, not a scar, but a laceration on the face of the video game industry.
So yeah, we live in a civilisation with a very...open voice..,unless you want that voice to be heard, I think it's best to put rape games back in the cupboard out of reach, not of the ignorant hands of children, but the ignorant hands of adults.
What it comes down to generally is two words that like "Cinematic" and "Compelling", show the world the TRUE UNMITIGATED HORROR OF THESE VILE GAMES.
Those words are "Realistic" and "Interactive".
"Realistic" means to us that the pallet is mostly browns and oranges; but to Joe Q Public, it means that these games are 110% real. Realer than real.
Add in "Interactive", which to us means "you can direct some of the action", and to JQP means "YOU CAN DO ANYTHING TO ANYONE!" and you can almost see why Faux News/Daily Mail gets so much milage out of these things.
To JQP, these games must appear to be the bastard love-child of Existenz and Lawnmower Man, and we must be the Godlike Bastions of SATAN!
(Amusingly, often while they're playing one of their little online scam games)
Banning Rapeplay though? Yeah. I'll stand up to that ban.
Why? Well, the buck has to stop somewhere. And by drawing a line that says "This is where it gets a little dodgy for JQP", that means we have a set point to be drawing guidelines.
The problem with Australia's Left 4 Dead 2 ban is that it focussed on violence against authority figures as bad - which makes Punch and Judy abominable.
(Let's recap...Spousal Abuse, Violence Against Authority Figures, Police Brutality, Animal Brutality, Child Brutality...)
But...Kids have been growing up with that since the 16th century - and despite being condemned by the Political Correct brigade, you can see a LOT worse in any episode of The Simpsons. (before I even touch on Family Guy or South Park, neither of which is patrolled on satellite TV)
So, Homer can punch Chief Wiggum, Punch can't truncheon the Policeman, Rochelle can't nightstick the armoured Infected, but Sam Tyler can punch out Gene Hunt.
Not really across the board, is it?
So... Rapeplay, ban stays. That's as far as JQP is willing to go in America. For Japan, they choose their own line, maybe Brookside or The Sopranos, both of which have far more violent storylines.
Like most of these problems, most of them stem from the majority having an ignorance of the facts, swept along by the RIGHTEOUS CRUSADERS OF...whatever todays hate figure is.
Those words are "Realistic" and "Interactive".
"Realistic" means to us that the pallet is mostly browns and oranges; but to Joe Q Public, it means that these games are 110% real. Realer than real.
Add in "Interactive", which to us means "you can direct some of the action", and to JQP means "YOU CAN DO ANYTHING TO ANYONE!" and you can almost see why Faux News/Daily Mail gets so much milage out of these things.
To JQP, these games must appear to be the bastard love-child of Existenz and Lawnmower Man, and we must be the Godlike Bastions of SATAN!
(Amusingly, often while they're playing one of their little online scam games)
Banning Rapeplay though? Yeah. I'll stand up to that ban.
Why? Well, the buck has to stop somewhere. And by drawing a line that says "This is where it gets a little dodgy for JQP", that means we have a set point to be drawing guidelines.
The problem with Australia's Left 4 Dead 2 ban is that it focussed on violence against authority figures as bad - which makes Punch and Judy abominable.
(Let's recap...Spousal Abuse, Violence Against Authority Figures, Police Brutality, Animal Brutality, Child Brutality...)
But...Kids have been growing up with that since the 16th century - and despite being condemned by the Political Correct brigade, you can see a LOT worse in any episode of The Simpsons. (before I even touch on Family Guy or South Park, neither of which is patrolled on satellite TV)
So, Homer can punch Chief Wiggum, Punch can't truncheon the Policeman, Rochelle can't nightstick the armoured Infected, but Sam Tyler can punch out Gene Hunt.
Not really across the board, is it?
So... Rapeplay, ban stays. That's as far as JQP is willing to go in America. For Japan, they choose their own line, maybe Brookside or The Sopranos, both of which have far more violent storylines.
Like most of these problems, most of them stem from the majority having an ignorance of the facts, swept along by the RIGHTEOUS CRUSADERS OF...whatever todays hate figure is.
"The perception that because it's a videogame, it must be for kids. No. Wrong. Wrong."
Is there some way we can get this stapled to the heads of all the anti-game idiots out there? No? Hmm.. how about tattooed?
I really just don't understand why something like this that is so blatantly obvious seems to hard for some people to grasp. I mean, the average age of a gamer now a days is what, 28? Argh...
Is there some way we can get this stapled to the heads of all the anti-game idiots out there? No? Hmm.. how about tattooed?
I really just don't understand why something like this that is so blatantly obvious seems to hard for some people to grasp. I mean, the average age of a gamer now a days is what, 28? Argh...
I'm with you 100%. I may not agree what they have to say, but as long as no one is hurt, I will defend to the death their right to say it.
Also, there is a fine line between condoning rape games, and defending them. [http://www.destructoid.com/defending-virtual-rape-not-the-same-as-condoning-it-143025.phtml]
Also, there is a fine line between condoning rape games, and defending them. [http://www.destructoid.com/defending-virtual-rape-not-the-same-as-condoning-it-143025.phtml]
This is exactly the crux of the matter. Even films get away with a lot more than games, and that's much more graphic because it's much more realistic. People think because you're "participating" with video games, that it does irreperable damage and makes you into a monster, which is of course total bullshit.Elesar said:
I've read one of those books too (well not all of it because it was so terrible), it was pretty hilarious to me really, how gloriously idiotic this supposed "erotic" book was. On every single page she was crying and the guys in the book found it a turn on? It's not as disgusting as it sounds, because it's way too unintentionally funny to do so, it's just ridiculous.