Let's Not Ban RapeLay
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Don't feel prudish, I think you are dead right.SecondmateFlint said:
I actually cannot believe the amount of people on this forum who believe that this should not be censored.
Now don't get me wrong; I play plenty of violent video games, watch lots of gross movies and read a lot of "horrible" stuff. Watched plenty of porn.And I'm not here saying that this particular game will turn people into rapists and all that kind of pop-psychology.
But ask yourself; what kind of person wants to actually play a game like this? Are you seriously going to be happy to have them living next door? Arguing that it should be allowed to exist, and that people should be allowed to consume it, is the same argument that would allow a child porn simulator to be legal.
Would you put up with a neighbour who called around every evening to explain why all Jews should be burned alive? Would you actually, honestly just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well, he has a right to free speech"?
Suppose the game was called "****** lyncher" or "homo basher" and had content to match the title - would you all be defending it then?
Would Mr. Chalk have written an article entitled "Let's not ban Baby in a Microwave Simulator"?
He writes
"We live in a mature and responsible society in which adults have the right to choose for themselves: What they watch, what they read, what they listen to, and yes, what they play. It's one of the most fundamental principles of our freedom;"
which is simply not true. If you really believe that you live in a "mature and responsible" society, why is there so much crime in your cities?
Please let's leave aside all these naieve notions that Censorship is always bad or free speech is a moral right that trumps all other rights, because, it doesn't.
Remember; you only have this "right" because someone long dead put it in your constitution, or whatever equivalent you have in your corner of the world.
Do you really believe they put it in there so that sick, twisted ideas could be freely propagated throughout society? Every declaration of the right to the freedom of speech/expression that I know of, in any country, makes it very clear that this so-called "freedom" is limited by an "offence principal" which is there to protect it's society by refusing this freedom to ideas that offend the majority of said society.
Now you can claim a moral high-ground insead of a legal one, and insist that you have a moral right to read, write, watch, play, or otherwise express or consume anything you want, but that begs the question - at what point does the morality of that stance contradict the morality of the content you are defending?
This is my take on this issue
I am against the ban and will try to explain why, but before that I'm against how people make an opinion or decision as definite as ban something after just getting to know that there is a video game about rape.
It is the same case when news channels go against violent video games. They hear that there is a video game that has killing or blood, and based on that bit on information they go on to make their opinions about it about how that must warp people's minds and promote violence or desensitize the poor little kids, and they usually try to provide some research that no one knows for sure how it was made or how valid it truly is on the big picture of things.
So the first thing that should be done before making or promoting the decision of "That should be banned" is taking the time to think about the effects of such media (if the argument is that the game really makes people more likely to kill or rape, or people enjoy doing it in the game as if it were the real thing), playing or finding a way to go through the game (if I were to say, such movie or book should be banned, my opinion would never be taken seriously if I don't watch it or read it first, and that takes more than the 2 seconds some people took to say that rapelay should be banned), and also have some understanding of the material ( I like the article, and how the writer says at the beginning that 'I have no idea how I got dragged into this. I'm no expert on eroge games, Japanese culture, rape, censorship or anything else related to the game').
Where I'm going with this is like lets think for example about how news channels say shooting people in GTA could have an effect in real life, and they talk about research that has been made. If I'm really interested in that issue, I would also bring to the case that scene in GTA or in Heavy Rain in which you decide whether to kill or not a character that is pleading for his life, in those cases my perception of what was happening was completely different than before, I spared their life but then had no problem shooting more faceless drones that came up afterwards. There are games like InFamous in which I played it through it once as a hero (being as considerate to others, specially innocent characters), and once as a villain (being a complete bastard to everyone), and I did all that in one same game. This shows me that even inside of the world of video games, I treat different characters in different ways, and my perception of them changes, so I would think that my brain would react differently with a real person that it does with a video game character as well. So I would put all that info into my research in order to come up with a more complete result, problem is, you need to know more about video games than what tv journalist do in order to come up with that.
Knowing about video games is just half the issue before making an opinion about this though, the other half is going into how violence or in this case sex or rape is portrayed or at what kind of audience it is aimed for. I cannot go as in deep about it because I haven't played Rapelay or know the psychology behind people's sexual fantasies, but I know that there are consenting adults out there that buy handcuffs and blind folds and all sorts of sexual related stuff to enhance their experience and that is legal as far as I know as long as it is consenting, safe, and part of a game. The scenarios in which some people play might be not much different that representing a rape scene, but acted and made belief. They do it in the privacy of their homes (as in the game) and don't go around doing it to unsuspecting victims, and would probably be offended if someone would insinuate that. Some people would see those activities as weird or crazy, but others would find it natural and that it doesn't harm anyone so there is no need to complain.
So is it weird and crazy to have a game like this? many think so and I could too, but not everyone. Is it different to play a fantasy with a fictional, actress like character (hence sort of consenting because the fictional character was programmed for whats happening in the game) than those who play with real people who like the same?
I just think that those issues should be addressed, and understood, before making an opinion about it, and saying if the game is good or bad and what the effects will be. I'm not into rubber suits for sex so what I do is not look for them and buy them or wear them, instead of saying they should be banned because I think is weird and kids all over the world will try them and turn them into rapists. So I cannot be pro banning Rapelay from what I know about it and unless there is some well though, thorough explanation about it as a game and a sexual device. Oh, and some knowledge about censorship would be good too.
(As for the poster above I think that the sexual fantasy aspect make this different than a "****** lyncher" or "homo basher" game, maybe even above a fighting game or a shooting one, but again we wouldn't know unless someone really goes into the psychology of it).
I am against the ban and will try to explain why, but before that I'm against how people make an opinion or decision as definite as ban something after just getting to know that there is a video game about rape.
It is the same case when news channels go against violent video games. They hear that there is a video game that has killing or blood, and based on that bit on information they go on to make their opinions about it about how that must warp people's minds and promote violence or desensitize the poor little kids, and they usually try to provide some research that no one knows for sure how it was made or how valid it truly is on the big picture of things.
So the first thing that should be done before making or promoting the decision of "That should be banned" is taking the time to think about the effects of such media (if the argument is that the game really makes people more likely to kill or rape, or people enjoy doing it in the game as if it were the real thing), playing or finding a way to go through the game (if I were to say, such movie or book should be banned, my opinion would never be taken seriously if I don't watch it or read it first, and that takes more than the 2 seconds some people took to say that rapelay should be banned), and also have some understanding of the material ( I like the article, and how the writer says at the beginning that 'I have no idea how I got dragged into this. I'm no expert on eroge games, Japanese culture, rape, censorship or anything else related to the game').
Where I'm going with this is like lets think for example about how news channels say shooting people in GTA could have an effect in real life, and they talk about research that has been made. If I'm really interested in that issue, I would also bring to the case that scene in GTA or in Heavy Rain in which you decide whether to kill or not a character that is pleading for his life, in those cases my perception of what was happening was completely different than before, I spared their life but then had no problem shooting more faceless drones that came up afterwards. There are games like InFamous in which I played it through it once as a hero (being as considerate to others, specially innocent characters), and once as a villain (being a complete bastard to everyone), and I did all that in one same game. This shows me that even inside of the world of video games, I treat different characters in different ways, and my perception of them changes, so I would think that my brain would react differently with a real person that it does with a video game character as well. So I would put all that info into my research in order to come up with a more complete result, problem is, you need to know more about video games than what tv journalist do in order to come up with that.
Knowing about video games is just half the issue before making an opinion about this though, the other half is going into how violence or in this case sex or rape is portrayed or at what kind of audience it is aimed for. I cannot go as in deep about it because I haven't played Rapelay or know the psychology behind people's sexual fantasies, but I know that there are consenting adults out there that buy handcuffs and blind folds and all sorts of sexual related stuff to enhance their experience and that is legal as far as I know as long as it is consenting, safe, and part of a game. The scenarios in which some people play might be not much different that representing a rape scene, but acted and made belief. They do it in the privacy of their homes (as in the game) and don't go around doing it to unsuspecting victims, and would probably be offended if someone would insinuate that. Some people would see those activities as weird or crazy, but others would find it natural and that it doesn't harm anyone so there is no need to complain.
So is it weird and crazy to have a game like this? many think so and I could too, but not everyone. Is it different to play a fantasy with a fictional, actress like character (hence sort of consenting because the fictional character was programmed for whats happening in the game) than those who play with real people who like the same?
I just think that those issues should be addressed, and understood, before making an opinion about it, and saying if the game is good or bad and what the effects will be. I'm not into rubber suits for sex so what I do is not look for them and buy them or wear them, instead of saying they should be banned because I think is weird and kids all over the world will try them and turn them into rapists. So I cannot be pro banning Rapelay from what I know about it and unless there is some well though, thorough explanation about it as a game and a sexual device. Oh, and some knowledge about censorship would be good too.
(As for the poster above I think that the sexual fantasy aspect make this different than a "****** lyncher" or "homo basher" game, maybe even above a fighting game or a shooting one, but again we wouldn't know unless someone really goes into the psychology of it).
I agree that most censorship is stupid. But I do think this game should be banned.
Videogames do not "corrupt" you like many think. Someone who plays this game isn't going to become a rapist. Someone who plays GTA IV isn't going to become a crazed murderer. But that's not the point. Videogames are, at their heart, entertainment. Why should this subject matter be entertaining?
Yes, we all play violent games, sometimes because we want to escape into a fantasy world where we can do whatever we want. Sometimes because we're angry, and want to blow off steam. So, blow something up in GTA IV. Revv up God of War and mutilate some beasties. Who blows off steam by simulating raping women? Who's fantasy world is that? Everyone wants to bash in heads sometimes; I don't want to meet the men who want to escape in RapeLay.
Someone here mentioned that Women's Rights groups have stated that games like this "normalize" violence against women. That same person responded with the "they won't become rapists" argument. That's not what they're talking about. They don't mean it'll become everyday practice to go around raping because it was in a game. They mean that the players will cease to see it for how horrible it is in real life. NOT that they wouldn't be horrified by it if it happened to a woman they know, but that they wouldn't make the connection between the two. A few commenters have posted that they played this with friends "just for laughs." The "just for laughs" is what the women's rights groups are worried about.
This is a real problem that happens to real people, men and women. Again, why should this be entertaining?
For the record, I think the books and movies that glorify rape should be banned as well. Yes, there is a double-standard for gaming. That double-standard is partially because games are interactive; it's one thing to watch a porno about rape, and another to act it out. But for the most part that double-standard is unfair. But I don't think the answer should be "we can be as depraved and offensive as everyone else." I think the rules about movies and books should just become stricter.
Videogames do not "corrupt" you like many think. Someone who plays this game isn't going to become a rapist. Someone who plays GTA IV isn't going to become a crazed murderer. But that's not the point. Videogames are, at their heart, entertainment. Why should this subject matter be entertaining?
Yes, we all play violent games, sometimes because we want to escape into a fantasy world where we can do whatever we want. Sometimes because we're angry, and want to blow off steam. So, blow something up in GTA IV. Revv up God of War and mutilate some beasties. Who blows off steam by simulating raping women? Who's fantasy world is that? Everyone wants to bash in heads sometimes; I don't want to meet the men who want to escape in RapeLay.
Someone here mentioned that Women's Rights groups have stated that games like this "normalize" violence against women. That same person responded with the "they won't become rapists" argument. That's not what they're talking about. They don't mean it'll become everyday practice to go around raping because it was in a game. They mean that the players will cease to see it for how horrible it is in real life. NOT that they wouldn't be horrified by it if it happened to a woman they know, but that they wouldn't make the connection between the two. A few commenters have posted that they played this with friends "just for laughs." The "just for laughs" is what the women's rights groups are worried about.
This is a real problem that happens to real people, men and women. Again, why should this be entertaining?
For the record, I think the books and movies that glorify rape should be banned as well. Yes, there is a double-standard for gaming. That double-standard is partially because games are interactive; it's one thing to watch a porno about rape, and another to act it out. But for the most part that double-standard is unfair. But I don't think the answer should be "we can be as depraved and offensive as everyone else." I think the rules about movies and books should just become stricter.
I feel rather conflicted on this issue - yes, games like RapeLay are intended for adults, and thus adults should have the right to choose whether or not they play such a game. Then again, what the game is portraying for the sake of entertainment, to me, is morally repulsive. I'm all for free speech, but who is going to find this garbage "entertaining"? As someone above me mentioned, I'd rather not meet someone who likes to escape into a world where they rape women. There's something wrong about that - then again, I suppose one could argue that anybody who enjoys running people over with cars in GTA is no better - and to that I would say, "fuck, you're kind of right, I suppose".
I suppose that games like GTA have just been around for so long that we simply accept it for what it is - a game, and nothing more. These people aren't really dying in GTA, and the women in RapeLay aren't actually getting raped. Still, it's just my personal opinion that the simulation of women being raped for the sake of entertainment just seems so fundamentally wrong, that I can't help but criticise this game for doing such a thing, and thus I feel it has no place being sold in western society. If they want to sell it in Japan, that's completely fine. There are distinct cultural differences between North America and Japan, and I feel that those should be acknowledged and respected when considering whether or not this game be banned.
I suppose that games like GTA have just been around for so long that we simply accept it for what it is - a game, and nothing more. These people aren't really dying in GTA, and the women in RapeLay aren't actually getting raped. Still, it's just my personal opinion that the simulation of women being raped for the sake of entertainment just seems so fundamentally wrong, that I can't help but criticise this game for doing such a thing, and thus I feel it has no place being sold in western society. If they want to sell it in Japan, that's completely fine. There are distinct cultural differences between North America and Japan, and I feel that those should be acknowledged and respected when considering whether or not this game be banned.
Censorship is bad, therefore I'm opposed, it's Miller time. But then I made the mistake of thinking about it for a minute and it occurred to me that I was being asked to speak out against a ban on a game that was entirely about raping women.
How the hell am I supposed to oppose that?
---------------------------------------------------
Um....demand that Japan be equal & make games where women rape men? (Which would actually sell with highschool girls & old cougars).
Oh well, banning the game would only backfire. Negative publicity increases sales & if it's banned, people will pirate it. & since it was never available outside Japan, people will download it off of torrents for pure curiosity because items of controvery are secret indugendces just waiting to be picked up & anything taboo gets it's own cult following.
How the hell am I supposed to oppose that?
---------------------------------------------------
Um....demand that Japan be equal & make games where women rape men? (Which would actually sell with highschool girls & old cougars).
Oh well, banning the game would only backfire. Negative publicity increases sales & if it's banned, people will pirate it. & since it was never available outside Japan, people will download it off of torrents for pure curiosity because items of controvery are secret indugendces just waiting to be picked up & anything taboo gets it's own cult following.
Here's another point, while I'm here: In another article by the same guy about the same game, he said that we shouldn't worry about games like this, because no gamer is going to be anything but repulsed by it. I wish I could hold every gamer to that standard of decency, but it simply isn't true. There are horrible, perverse gamers in the Western world, and you can meet them in any MMORPG.
The whole point is not whether we should ban or apply censorship, the point is the awfully pathetic game shouldn't have been made in the first place. And for people who play it for kicks or laughs, or just to find out and see what the game is like, perhaps they should take those reasons and tell that to real rape victims.
"oh I played the game for laughs!"
When ever penny spent on it, every minute wasted on it producing it was like violating a rape victim all over again.
Maybe a game where you are a pedophile and the point is to lure children to your house, and you get super special upgrades for group sessions. maybe your a buyer for a sex slave ring and sell boys and girls men and women all over the world, maybe next your a general for a group of child soliders in the Congo.
my point is what come next to satisfy people desire for "escapism"
I don't believe in censorship its wrong, free thought is good, crossing the line of integrity and decency and considererations for other who have suffered at the hands of people who are scum, why would anyone want to be scum, even for pretend
"oh I played the game for laughs!"
When ever penny spent on it, every minute wasted on it producing it was like violating a rape victim all over again.
Maybe a game where you are a pedophile and the point is to lure children to your house, and you get super special upgrades for group sessions. maybe your a buyer for a sex slave ring and sell boys and girls men and women all over the world, maybe next your a general for a group of child soliders in the Congo.
my point is what come next to satisfy people desire for "escapism"
I don't believe in censorship its wrong, free thought is good, crossing the line of integrity and decency and considererations for other who have suffered at the hands of people who are scum, why would anyone want to be scum, even for pretend
The crime of Rape is not about sex, or S&M, its about power, humilating and degrading another person, rape is purely about causing pain (every type) upon someone.masterpain22 said:
Acting out a scene of rape or dominance and submission, kink, handcuffs and blindfolds, gags ect ect is scenrio between two consenting adults, consenting adults being the opertive phrase. If you using the defense that Rapelay is a innocent way to act out your fantasies I would disagree, there is a difference between rape (the crime) and what fantasy you act with your partner or in your dreams, one is real and with consent, the other is something within your sleeping sub-concious mind.
But isn't the game a fantasy? It is definitely not real I can tell you that.michiehoward said:
For what I read in other comments the game visual style and gameplay seems to be very cartoony, and it is no real rape (the crime) as you put it. You can't compare real rape to acting something out in a video game and then wanting to ban it for it. In the same way I wouldn't call PETA when I see Mario stomping on a turtle, as I haven't seen people acting that out in real life and if they do it is because there is something wrong with them and not the game.
Acting out a scene between to consenting adults and in a video game is not that different, or at least is a lot closer than video game and reality. You are pretty much saying that video games and reality are about the same which is just nonsense, and if everyone thought the same then almost all games would have to be banned by one reason or another.
Yes it does, however where exactly would you say that line is?dannymc18 said:
For example if they where to put a disclaimer at the start of the game stating all virtual characters in the game are willing participants in any activities despite anything they say or do later in game would it still be illegal? cause we already have rl versions of this.
Drawing a line here is a very slippery slope.
While I don't think it's teh best solution (or even that good of a solution) I think the line needs to be drawn a bit differently. "As long as all involved humans have given consent and are of age, then it is legal". It gets more complicated once you start involving animals (unless you want everyone to go vegi).
On a personal level I believe alchohol is far far worse and has DIRECTLY contributed to far more crimes than games have. Not just small crimes either, stories of girls getting drunk and being forced into sex either through physical force or just too inebriated to stop it are all over the place. Hell you can even argue in court that because you where drunk the crime wasn't so bad. Personally I hate alchohol and believe the world would be far better off if it was banned, am I crazy enough to try and force my personal views onto people who don't effect me?
I strongly object to the word skill being used with the people who make these games. These people are the very back end of the industry and should stay that way.Firia said:
I honestly think selling these sort of games to adults should be ok. However they really need to make selling any sort of games like this to anyone under the age of 18 illegal. And I mean seriously illegal like if your store does this better get ready for some police raids and sting operations. Hell put em behind the counter with the cigerates, if the front covers are anything like the game they shouldn't be anywhere near where a kids gonna go, and if they aren't like the game then their a trap.
What I seem to see a lot after reading through the thread is people seem to think that we have to ban the game cause it's trash or say it's ok cause it's normal.
Why can't we let the game legally exist as it hasn't broken any laws and say "It's a disgusting foul piece of trash" which it is. We seem to want our government to decide, and to some extent enforce, our views for us.
Hell it's not impossible as you can see by the cigarette industry. Every knows how bad smoking is and yet it's not illegal, they just have built up a stigma around it.
Why can't we let the game legally exist as it hasn't broken any laws and say "It's a disgusting foul piece of trash" which it is. We seem to want our government to decide, and to some extent enforce, our views for us.
Hell it's not impossible as you can see by the cigarette industry. Every knows how bad smoking is and yet it's not illegal, they just have built up a stigma around it.
Not in favour of a ban or any bans really.
If they were going to ban such games, it would mean a whole lot of games, as Japan has a spate of sex/rape games. Banning them is also a pointless exercise in grand-standing and moral-highgrounding--everything gets pirated anyway especially if you try to ban or restrict it. Remember the habits of the pc master race.
If they were going to ban such games, it would mean a whole lot of games, as Japan has a spate of sex/rape games. Banning them is also a pointless exercise in grand-standing and moral-highgrounding--everything gets pirated anyway especially if you try to ban or restrict it. Remember the habits of the pc master race.