Let's Not Ban RapeLay

[squid5580]

I'm not talking about the game(probably a bad idea considering the thread).
I'm talking about ACTUAL kiddie porn. Photos and movies. Do you think that's acceptable as long as the kids agree?

Depends. This extreme kneejerk "protect the children" thing is kinda recent. Like, the few decades. Child pornography was legal in the US, pictures and videos. Before that, girls were all but sold for dowry (slight hyperbole) to men of all ages. Arranged marriages between toddlers that were consummated as soon as both were able.

But the abuse of children isn't the subject. Its close, though. Saying that any form of pornography can turn a person into a rapist, pedophile, homosexual, whatever is wrong and insulting... to everyone. Its saying that you are just the slightest push from raping a child of the same sex.

But child pornography bans are justified by the fact a child can be coerced into doing just about anything, and any parent that would coerce his/her child into pornography only has his/
her interests in mind. Rightly so, but eh.

There is a world of difference between Rapelay and Kiddie Porn. It isn't even an arguement. You are trying to connect the dots between something made by adults for adults and something that is harmful to a child. To a person who barely has the concept of right or wrong down. A person who isn't very smart and who can be exploited and manipulated. If the child is infact "willing" it makes no difference. Just like you can't enforce a contract you sign with a minor. If kids were like adults we wouldn't have the ESRB in the first place.

 

[omegatheta]

i find it ammusing that japan has all this wonderful stuff like rapelay and...panty vending machines and EXTREMELY well thought through anime porn(hentai W/E im dumbing it down) and yet whilst they aren't without crime they are definitely not in the top 20 crime infested nations in the world... Banning anything doesn't STOP people from doing it....if that was the case we would no longer have drug addicts... all banning things has ever accomplished is making people do/obtain them more secretively...

 

[Kiefer13]

I agree completely. I think Rapelay and other games like it are disgusting. But censorship is far more disgusting then they could ever be.

 

[Denamic]

Because censorship works.
When people are bleeped out on TV, you totally can't make out what they're actually saying, and your fragile mind is thus safe.
And raging about RapeLay has not made the game 52 thousand times more famous than it was in the first place.
I bet the numbers lie and they really didn't sell several times more copies of the game than they did before.
Yay for imposed morality!

 

[rekabdarb]

Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and manga) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

doesn't japan actually have one of the lowest counts of rape in the "1st world countries?" where us united statesians have a much higher count

 

[Crunchy English]

One of Andy's best articles ever, because he dealt with a really complicated issue in just 2 pages. Y'know, there's a hidden moral to this story: Why in the Fiery Regions of Hell do we care what CNN thinks? I mean, I'd rather watch them than the bad joke that is Fox News, but aren't they simply proving themselves inconsequential? The game was made 4 years ago! We had these discussions then!

Oh, but now CNN's onboard, so it matters again? When do these major news networks move from "reporting" news to "Producing" it?

 

[dannymc18]

I'm anti-censorship and anti-lazy-high-profile-news-outlets-looking-for-a-cheap-bit-of-scandal-and-controversy, however, a line must be drawn somewhere. Also, you may say that the game exists as a result of the culture in Japan, but I'm afraid I have to say in that case that something needs sorted out in Japan. A country where women need dedicated train carriages just so they wont constantly get groped is a country that has serious problems.

Anyway, yes, I say a line should be drawn, and it should be drawn long before this game. I'm sure if it was a child porn game no one would defend it, why should this be any different.

 

[Altorin]

i find it ammusing that japan has all this wonderful stuff like rapelay and...panty vending machines and EXTREMELY well thought through anime porn(hentai W/E im dumbing it down) and yet whilst they aren't without crime they are definitely not in the top 20 crime infested nations in the world... Banning anything doesn't STOP people from doing it....if that was the case we would no longer have drug addicts... all banning things has ever accomplished is making people do/obtain them more secretively...

I think if I were into rape imagery, banning it would be a really bad idea. instead of just watching porn to get my fix of rape I'd have to.. go out and rape someone.

So that's a scenario that's JUST as plausible as anything they can possibly put out for why it shouldn't be banned.

People have sick urges. It would be good for them to be able to feed those urges without hurting anyone. And if you just say "They should suppress those urges", we all know that doesn't work. It's a compulsion, not a choice. The only choice in the matter for a rapist is NOT to rape. They choose NOT to rape to be part of society.

at least for the ones who have urges to rape. Some guys rape to show dominance. that's an entirely different beast.

 

[Geoffrey42]

Agreed. I may not agree what they have to say, but as long as no one is hurt, I will defend to the death their right to say it.

Also, there is a fine line between condoning rape games, and defending them. [http://www.destructoid.com/defending-virtual-rape-not-the-same-as-condoning-it-143025.phtml]

Along similar lines:
http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2008/12/why-defend-freedom-of-icky-speech.html

 

[BlueHighwind]

You know, I'm all for freedom of expression, and the ability for people to choose for themselves what they want to be exposed to. But what is the point of a game that simulates rape? I think we can all agree that some thoughts should be expressed, and some should not. Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to rape a girl, her entire family, and then lock them up in your basement as sex slaves? The people who made this game are either purely cynical and exploiting a disturbed demographic, or as sick and disturbed as the clientel their giving it to.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that rape is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A rape video game can only make its players worse people in the long run.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'm sure if it was a child porn game no one would defend it, why should this be any different.

Truthfully? I'm not so sure anymore who would and who wouldn't.

 

[Altorin]

You know, I'm all for freedom of expression, and the ability for people to choose for themselves what they want to be exposed to. But what is the point of a game that simulates rape? I think we can all agree that some thoughts should be expressed, and some should not. Repression is bad if its a natural impulse that causes no harm to anyone, but how about the impulse to rape a girl, her entire family, and then lock them up in your basement as sex slaves? The people who made this game are either purely cynical and exploiting a disturbed demographic, or as sick and disturbed as the clientel their giving it to.

Not every idea and thought has value. Not every fantasy needs to be expressed, and some ideas should be removed. There is no reason to play this game, and the only possible benefits are to pollute somebody's mind into thinking that rape is somehow expectable. We are affected by the media we watch, there's no denying that. A rape video game can only make its players worse people in the long run.

expectable?

The point of the column by the way is that there is rape everything else. You can get rape porn, rape novels, rape art, rape everything else.

For some reason, games are being vilified more then any other medium.

 

[Mokuren]

Enough has been said about how banning "rape games" actually has higher chance of normalizing violence by saying "Hi rapist, it's not your fault, it's the media/games/rock music/dungeons and dragons" than actually playing a game. I agree, banning doesn't solve anything, the only case in which a game could lead someone to commit atrocities would be in extremely rare circumstances where extremely vulnerable and impressionable people are involved and nobody does a damn thing about it in the two-three months of alarms that usually precede the crime.

But I digress. All I wanted to say is: I haven't played Rapelay, but I played Artificial Girl from the same authors and it wasn't much different. Basically, the girls run around at random, sometimes say random lines, and all the interaction you can do is hug them (to which they react like in a poorly written amateur porn) repeatedly until you get into the banging part. Doesn't seem too different from a rape game, does it?

What I'm saying is that most porn games are like most porn movies: bad. And I mean it: bad, but the so bad it's good type, where they actually turn out being absolutely hilarious, albeit that wasn't their objective. Maybe.

As a proof, watch this review of 3Maid Story, one of the first games Illusion came out with.

I wouldn't be surprised if Rapelay had about the same level of ridiculousness.

 

[Aurgelmir]

Ok, here is the deal American Media: STOP TALKING ABOUT IT!

Seriously, what I mean is by focusing on something like "RapeLay" you are basically telling people who probably are not interested in the game that: "Hey guys, there is this game out there, that lets you rape women, FOR FREE!"

I added the "For Free" because we all know how to find whatever we want on the internet, don't we? So by making a big deal out of nothing, the media is drawing focus on something that isn't a big deal.

It's not being sold at Toys R Us, or any other place in america for that matter, so its not like your kids will get their hands on it. And by the time (s)he is old enough to find it on the internet, then it's the parents job to make sure they don't, not the government, not the schools, not Mr.Miller across the road, its your job as parents not to be ignorant.

Now over to the other topic, is the content in the games wrong?
No! Not any more than any EA Sports game out there. I don't like sports games, and I don't like anything depicting rape. So I choose not the play them. But some people do, and if they are old enough to vote, they are old enough to choose their own entertainment. AS LONG AS THE CREATION OF THE ENTERTAINMENT DON'T HURT INNOCENT PEOPLE!
A computer game doesn't hurt a fly. It can depict whatever it wants for all I care, if I don't like it, I don't play it, 'nuff said!

As for children in sexual content in video games and animation:

Not something I like myself, but it didn't hurt anyone did it? So why should you care, no one is forcing you to watch it.

There is a line to be drawn, and that line is drawn when innocent human lives are hurt or abused.

But isn't it better to depict abuse in written fictional literature and animated media rather than in reality?


All in all its up to the parents of the world to start raising their children. And for the Parents and all other grown ups of the world to be allowed to choose their entertainment themselves.

 

[John Funk]

Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

Not... really.

They're just not calling them rape games anymore. Unless something's changed since then.

Whatever be the case, these games are normally meant to act as 'social valves' to let people live out their fantasies virtually instead of criminally(although the recorded crimes in Japan are beyond sadistic)
What I'll never agree with, though, is kiddie porn.
Japan enforced strict laws on that(outside animation and manga) only after foreign pressure to regulate that content.

doesn't japan actually have one of the lowest counts of rape in the "1st world countries?" where us united statesians have a much higher count

Reported rape, anyway.

 

[RabidusUnus]

First it was books, then movies, now it's games. There has always been some sort of scapegoat for society at large to point at and say, "THERE IT IS! THat's what is causing all of our problems!", even though it isn't that simple. Oh god, when realistic VR comes out, John Q. Public is going to flip the fuck out, and it'll be so lulzy.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

Of course we shouldn't ban it I mean wtf? Why should we ban it? Is this the old bullshit claim that if you play a rape game you're automatically a rapist yourself? Riiight. I suppose that if you see gay you do gay aswell then? If you play GTA IV then you're a fucking psychopath that needs to be chained to the bathroom pipes every night in case you get any funny ideas like killing your neighboor with a lawnmower..?

It's bullshit. Games are a form of escapism, what seperates it from books and movies etc is that it's interactive. If we have a fantasy that we desperatly we want to live out what better way to role-play than in a game. I have a drivers license but I would never dream of driving reclessly like a fucking idiot. That's what racing games are for, or GTA IV with it's uber realism.

If I want to kill people, I play Manhunt. It certainly doesn't mean I'm a lunatic, just that I need to vent my frustrations. That's why I'm still waiting for developers to let us kill children. Ever sit next to a annoying kid in the buss that just behaves like a brat and won't shut up? You can't slap him on the spot but it'd be nice to play a game where the only thing you're doing is killing kids.

Not a long time ago there was a thread about if we should be able to kill the US president in a game. Why the hell not? I think we can all agree that politicians are bastards so why not let us vent? Better to do it in a game then sending them a letter with white powder.

For the record I've played the game with my friends and it was very interesting. In my eyes it was an interactive porn movie, living out a fantasy of a man who's in complete control, dominating and utterly deciding another persons life. I see nothing wrong with it. Let people enjoy the game. Bloody hell

I know love this comparison if you do it a game you want to do it in real life. So I apparently want to dress up in armor and start raiding castle then fast travel back to a town sell my stuff then continue my main quest line. The magic would be nice though....

OT: I have never seen the point in the censorship the more you say no to something like this and put it up on a pedestal of something you shouldn't have the more peopel want it to rebel.

 

[Caiti Voltaire]

Take away the rape games and perhaps the people with these urges will just have to go off and rape some real women. Because that's so much better.

Have any of you ever played a Video game in anger to blow off steam? Kill a couple of thousand people in Dynasty Warriors, Curb stomp the CPU in a Beat 'em Up, Shoot a few hundred guys in an FPS because you had a bad day at work? Or your girlfriend left you? Or your mother is dieing of cancer?

Yeah... we all have, there is something therapeutic about letting go of that emotion in a healthy and safe environment where no real people can actually be harmed.

I can see the same sort of psychology that could follow something like Rapelay. Sexually frustrated guys who are getting their kicks or exploring fantasy's in a safe environment where no one can actually be harmed. Rather than just bottling those feelings up until the individual explodes and takes it all out on a real person.

Without a pressure valve people are going to be all the more likely to do that, is the real scary thing.

 

[TwistedEllipses]

Don't ban them, but keep them stigmatised is the simple answer. Maybe stop giving this games publicity too would help?

That way, game manufacturers won't touch them with a bargepole and any games in this genre that are made will continue to be poorly made messes and have little audience (except among the distrubed, the curious and show-off dickhead teens wanted to break the rules).

I wouldn't object to a serious treatment of rape in a game, but I don't think we'll see the point man attending therapy any-time soon...

 

[Macgyvercas]

I am a strict constitutionalist, with a heavy emphasis on the Second Amendment. I don't believe ANY form of speech or non-violent expression(and a rape GAME is not violent) should be banned or censored. It's all about personal responsibility folks. If everyone had it, then we wouldn't be discussing this, but because some people can't wrap their minds around the concept, we get 'scandals' like this.

Utter bullshit.

Dude, Seconds Amendment is Right to Bear Arms. First is Freedom of Speech, Religion and Media.

OT: Great article.