Let's Talk Top 5 RPG's

[The Madman]

In no particular order, because I'm indecisive like that, plus also cheating when it comes to franchises because everyone else is doing it...

Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn

Recently replayed this game and you know what? Even after the likes of Mass Effect, Witcher 3, Pillars of Eternity, and all the others that have come since BG2 still remains strong atop its throne as the king of PC rpg.

Mass Effect Trilogy

Speaking of which, despite its many flaws and faulty landing, I still love the ME series. It's basically the closest gaming has to a Star Wars style epic sci-fi adventure with a memorable cast of characters and locations worth remembering.

Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2

The first NWN has solid mechanics and great mod tools that have made for some amazing fan-modules over the years plus a solid multiplayer community, while the second had faulty online mechanics but stronger party mechanics which I found made for more compelling singleplayer. Together they're some of the best community driven rpg experience out there.

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines

I like one retrospective of this game where it was described as a bloody ambient soap opera, a sentiment I'd agree with. Some of the best dialogue out there that takes full advantage of player agency to ensure you'll always have a unique experience.

Knights of the Old Republic 2

Another game I recently replayed and to be honest, I'm not sure I'd really put it on a 'top 5' list otherwise. But even so I still want to give it mention just because for all its many flaws, there are some things Kotor 2 does better than any rpg I've played to date and it deserves recognition for that.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

You are simply just wrong here. . You can't roll up into my thread and diss FF7 bro. Them is fighting words. Actually now that I think about it. The first game was pretty good...but nah...FF7 bro. All the way!

Minecraft actually does need an explanation for me. Number one, it isn't an RPG in any sense. The base game has no story, no level up mechanics, nothing that can classify it as an RPG in any way. Additionally I do not believe a game deserves any top places in any list if you need outside mods to make it good/great. This is why I don't like people praising SKyrim and talking about how awesome the modding community is. If it is the mods that make a game great then the game itself isn't good, only the mod is good. So I can't count it.

I think VII, plot-wise, is kinda convoluted, with so many twists and turns, and the 3D graphics in it have aged horribly. Yes, I know that that was the best they could do at that time, but honestly, if I was the developer, I would have just waited more for 3D graphics to improve before I would have made it in complete 3D. I was being kinda harsh though I suppose when I said, "fuck VII." lol The basis of the plot is pretty decent but I would have wrote it differently. Like in Erin Dies Alone where

Spoiler

The supposed oh-so-innocent-and-natural Crystal of Light (in correlation with FF's "Lifestream" and "Gaia") they're helping are actually the mind-controlling antagonists and Erin succumbs to them herself. That's an awesome trope-defying plot I can get behind.

As to Minecraft, you don't HAVE to role-play but you certainly can and the tools are very much there. And in multiplayer, the opportunity for role-playing is INCREDIBLE. A lot more so than many other RPGs. As to not counting mods as part of the quality of the game, I suppose that's kind of fair, but at the same time, you can't just ignore them either since they're so easily obtainable and they're always going to be there. The relationship between a game and it's mods can easily be very symbiotic, and Minecraft is a great example of this. Or just look at Garry's Mod, which is quite literally built for mods.

And yes, I'm one of the people that think vanilla Skyrim was incredible. Ironically though, it's huge replayability brings it's own downfall. The game encourages just wasting hours and hours and hours into it, but when you do that with ANY game, sooner or later, you're going to get tired of it. And thus, you have people who formerly said that the game was really good now saying that it's not that great really. It WAS great but you just got tired of it like any other game because you put way too many hours into it.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Sir, I love your list and in many ways feel like it makes you my new best friend, but I take serious umbrage with your inclusion of the wholly excellent Jagged Alliance 2 as "an RPG". It is clearly a turn based tactical game with mild RPG elements. This reckless genre blending will not stand, sir! It will not stand!

Take Umbrage all you like, my position remains!

And how is it not like an RPG, I ask? Are role playing games not only rooted in, but essentially tactical affairs anyway? Aren't the origins of the word it'self draped in what was essentially turn based wargaming? Besides, the interactions and decisions in the game are more in depthj than most "select an attack and wait" affairs that bear the title of RPG.

If Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem games AND DARK SOULS can bear that title, I damn well say that Jagged Alliance can...

 

[Kerg3927]

Sir, I love your list and in many ways feel like it makes you my new best friend, but I take serious umbrage with your inclusion of the wholly excellent Jagged Alliance 2 as "an RPG". It is clearly a turn based tactical game with mild RPG elements. This reckless genre blending will not stand, sir! It will not stand!

Take Umbrage all you like, my position remains!

And how is it not like an RPG, I ask? Are role playing games not only rooted in, but essentially tactical affairs anyway? Aren't the origins of the word it'self draped in what was essentially turn based wargaming? Besides, the interactions and decisions in the game are more in depthj than most "select an attack and wait" affairs that bear the title of RPG.

If Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem games AND DARK SOULS can bear that title, I damn well say that Jagged Alliance can...

Just like with music, trying to pigeon hole every game into one particular category is kinda dumb because many games contain elements of different genres and operate in the grey. There is a ton of subjectivity involved. Although that doesn't stop people on the internet from arguing until the cows come home, with each side certain that THEIR categorization is the correct one.

Anyway, there are many types of RPG's and many other games of other genres with RPG elements. The OP didn't define exactly what qualifies as an RPG for this ranking, so it's up to the subjective interpretation of each poster, IMO.

 

[Drathnoxis]

I'm currently replaying System Shock 2. First time since the early 2000s, well before Bioshock 1. It used to be one of my favourite RPGs. Now I'm getting to the stage where I think its little better than a COD progression system. I can recognise that even Skyrim's RPG is far superior than System Shock and a lot of complaints about Bioshock's lack of RPGness stems from System Shock. I think this would an example of what Critical is talking about. I don't know how you would do that unless you actually replayed them though.

But many games are classics for a reason. I've replayed a lot games and thought that they still hold up. Heck, I played Planescape: Torment a couple years ago and thought it was one of the best RPGs I've ever played.

It's not fair to just ask people to re-evaluate what they like and expect them to come up with a different answer. It's a thing people have to decide to do for themselves and it's slightly offensive to ask it of them. It implies a lot about their judgement and open mindedness, mainly that they are too blinded by nostalgia to see how garbage the games they like are.

Also, I think Skyrim holds up pretty poorly, even after just 6 years.

This doesn't make any sense. Why would you ask people to list their top 5 RPGs "of all time" and then get upset with them when they don't leave out their favorite games because you don't think they are that good anymore. If you didn't want older games, you should have restricted the thread to "from the last 10 years" or something like that.

I never said "all time". In fact I purposely issued this as a challenge to people to look at some of those "classic" games and think about more recent games that did things better. Better graphics, better writing, better mechanics, just better. I wanted people to think outside their comfort zone and look at things in a different way, perhaps giving credit to games that they wouldn't outwise give the credit too.

If you want all time. My list would be as follows:
1. Final Fantasy7
2. Xenogears
3. Rogue Galaxy
4. World of Warcraft
5. The Witcher 3

What are you talking about? Did you actually read the OP?

First sentence:

Okay so let me ask you this, what are your top 5 RPG's of all time?

You then reaffirm the question in the second last paragraph:

Tell me Escapist. What are your Top 5 RPG's of all time. Try to separate yourself from the classics and think on it.

You aren't getting the results you wanted because you didn't ask the question you wanted answered.

Edit: Completely unrelated, but are you a fan of Supergreatfriend by any chance?

 

[Wrex Brogan]

[sub]And besides, didn't you put Horizon Zero Dawn as one of yours? Can't criticize Zelda when that's on your list, eh? [/sub]

Zelda, especially the older games, are not rpg's. They just aren't. Not saying they aren't really good games, but they aren't rpgs. Where are the level up mechanics? Where is the gear customization? The different variety of spells? The only Zelda that even comes close is Breath of the Wild, but that's not even that close either because the customized equipment breaks so it isn't customized as much as it is merely being rotated around constantly. Though there are outfits that provide different buffs and such, so that gets it close.

Horizon on the other hand, does have these mechanics throughout the game. Alloy levels up, has customizable skills, equipment, and different styles of combat depending on your spec. In addition it has a much stronger story focus than any Zelda game ever, and a much more interesting open world than even something like Elder Scrolls games has.

That's just my opinion on it, and how I justify Horizon being a top 5 RPG.

I'm not saying that Zelda's an RPG, but at the same time, all the stuff you listed... doesn't really make Horizon Zero Dawn one either, in my books. It's got RPG elements, sure, but as a straight RPG... well, when you can wholly ignore all of the RPG elements without any consequence to your game it's probably not a straight RPG. Hell, even with the skill tree being there the biggest changes to combat comes from weapon equips, not skill investment or leveling up.

That said, 'RPG' these days is a... well, pretty vague definition. What actually makes an RPG? How many RPG Elements is needed to go from an 'action game' to an 'RPG game'? Is it as simple as leveling up and a skill tree system, or does it need to be more complex, with party members, customization and a strong story focus? Speaking of story, what kind of focus are we talking about? One where you play a 'role'? Lord knows I could probably make a good case for Warhammer 40k: Space Marine to be an RPG if that's the case, let alone Zelda games.

Now, I'm not saying you're wrong here - if you think Horizion's got enough in it to be an RPG then more power to you, and I remember back in the day when Salty Curmudgeons were complaining that Fallout 3 wasn't an RPG compared to Fallout 2 - it's just, when talking about RPGs, expect a little subjectivity when it comes to defining them.

...also, I'd like to edit my list to include Dawn of War II as one of the top RPGs. What? It's got skills, level ups, random weapon drops and party members, it totally counts.

 

[RedDeadFred]

Only picking one game from each series:

1. Witcher 3 - Pretty much everything that needs to be said has been said. The game puts pretty much every other games' side quests to shame. Hell, the writing in some of them put many other games' main quests to shame.

2. Skyrim - mods

3. Dark Souls 3 - I'll be honest, I consider the Souls series more action games than I do RPGs, but everyone else seems to be putting them, so I'll just say that I agree and put down my favourite of the series.

4. Mass Effect 2 - 3's ending may have tarnished the trilogy, but it still doesn't take away my enjoyment of Suicide Mission.

5. Shining Force - To be honest, II is better in just about every way, but the first of the series is what got me into RPGs in the first place, so it's always going to hold a special place if only for nostalgia reasons. For whatever reason, I just like the characters, setting, and even the music more.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Well, honestly I could easily make a list just out of the Tales series of RPGs alone, and the only reason the earlier games in the series would be lower on the list is because each game improves upon the series both mechanically and storywise with each entry. With the exception of that really really half assed localization of Tales of Hearts that Namco clearly didn't care to put any actual time and effort into I can't say there's a single entry yet that was worse than the ones before it or felt like a retread of the same stuff that the series had done before.

Kingdom Hearts is another series that has gotten better or at least remained just as good with each entry, with the exception of Chain of Memories and it's godawful card combat system each game has been enjoyable mechanically and storywise and replayable, and that's all I really ask for in a video game. The story in particular is really good and is what keeps me coming back to replay the games even after the actual mechanics start to get stale.

To continue this theme, Fallout has improved with each game with the exception of those terrible console games. It really took off once Bethesda acquired the IP, going from a top down isometric RPG with limited areas to a full on first/third person Action RPG set in an open world. If there every was a match made in heaven it was the union of Bethesda's great open world style with the post apocalypic world that is Fallout. Bethesda saved the IP from death and I hope they keep on improving moving forward. With Fallout 4 the voiced protagonists, dialog system, and building mechanics were all strokes of genius that I want them to all keep and continue to refine in future entries.

Speaking of Bethesda, their Elder Scrolls series just keeps getting better, with better done more free worlds, more fluid combat, and removing much of the redundancies and annoying mechanics the previous games had, and making good use of Bethesda's amazing modding community to allow players to customize the game to their liking.

As any reading this may have guessed, I judge the worth of a series based on if each iteration is better than the previous games in the series or if it regresses or screws up. This is because sequels aren't supposed to just be a continuation of a story, mechanics, or the series in general but make things better. Sequels that have failed to do this have failed in general.

 

[Trunkage]

I'm currently replaying System Shock 2. First time since the early 2000s, well before Bioshock 1. It used to be one of my favourite RPGs. Now I'm getting to the stage where I think its little better than a COD progression system. I can recognise that even Skyrim's RPG is far superior than System Shock and a lot of complaints about Bioshock's lack of RPGness stems from System Shock. I think this would an example of what Critical is talking about. I don't know how you would do that unless you actually replayed them though.

But many games are classics for a reason. I've replayed a lot games and thought that they still hold up. Heck, I played Planescape: Torment a couple years ago and thought it was one of the best RPGs I've ever played.

It's not fair to just ask people to re-evaluate what they like and expect them to come up with a different answer. It's a thing people have to decide to do for themselves and it's slightly offensive to ask it of them. It implies a lot about their judgement and open mindedness, mainly that they are too blinded by nostalgia to see how garbage the games they like are.

Also, I think Skyrim holds up pretty poorly, even after just 6 years.

I would agree. An impossible ask.
It just happens that I was replaying System Shock hence me bringing it up (also, I need to vent a little because I'm not really enjoying it). I actually starting playing because someone (not on this site) said that System Shock was a better RPG than Skyrim. I was actually surprised someone would make this claim, called shenanigans but decided I need to research it again, just in case my memory was bad (e.g. I replayed BG1&2 a couple of years ago and have re-evaluated. BG1 is a bad game but BG2 is still great).

Part of this process was me actually playing Skyrim for 10 hrs again. I think people are becoming overly harsh on its criticism but I also like the freedom that its modular design has compared to the restrictive connected design you see in Witcher 3 or Fallout NV.

How specifically do yo think Skyrim doesn't hold up?

 

[putowtin]

1: Fallout New Vegas. Best Fallout and the only one I go back to twice a year (time for a new character me thinks!)
2: KotOR II (yes 2!). I love the crew you pick up and Keira is a hell of a baddy
3: Skyrim. My ultimate time sink, I can spend hours just wandering... no real quest in mind just... wandering
4: Mass Effect trilogy. Love me some Garrus!
5: Dragon Age trilogy. Noble warden, sarcastic Hawke and Sir Reginald (he of the silly mustache) saving Thedas with Varric, huzzah!

 

[MysticSlayer]

4). Paper Mario 64: Simple? Yes. But boy does it have plenty of charm!

You'd really rate 64 higher than The Thousand Year Door? How come? Not many people would do that.

I remember renting The Thousand Year Door, but I never bought it. I'm not sure of the exact reason, but not playing it through is the primary reason I don't feel like rating it higher than Paper Mario 64.

That said, based on what I've played of it and some of the other Mario RPGs, I should probably just put "Mario RPGs" as #4. Paper Mario 64 just sticks out more to me for not only being one I've completed but also the first one I played.

 

[WhiteFangofWhoa]

Tried to separate myself from the Classics. Didn't work entirely. Probably because I have much less time to play games now.

5) Lufia 2, the stock meat and potatoes of RPGs. Real effort was made here to make it less generic than its predecessor and it shows. Best puzzles ever, and an optional dungeon that will keep you busy as long as the entire rest of the main game. It's a shame that some of the areas had serious graphical glitches and there were an embarrassingly large number of typos in equipment names. Anyone want to try wearing a 'brone helmet'? I want to try the remake, but it's so radically different that I'm a bit nervous about it.

4) Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door. The funniest entry on this list, and the best battle system of the series, simple yet elegant and wacky. Why they felt the need to repeatedly dumb it down after this gem I will never understand (okay I liked Super Paper Mario too but it was far too easy and simple, and the rest only followed that trend). Watching Lucahjin's blind Let's Play reminded me of all the things I loved about it.

3) Persona 4. Because I haven't been able to play 5 yet. We'll see who the true king of blending social simulation and psychologically themed dungeon crawling is next month, when I face out, hold out, and reach out to the truth.

2) Devil Survivor: Overclocked. To say the Shin Megami Tensei series made a lasting impression on me is an understatement. This wasn't my first taste of the series (that would have been SMTIV), but it was my favourite of the bunch despite a handful of dead end plot threads. The sequel was good too, yet it was made considerably easier which seems counterproductive for a series known for being hard enough to make you pay attention or die. The toughest game on this list, and I like it like that no matter how many times I screamed at the Bel demons. Honourable mention to Nocturne, but I don't want this list to be just an SMT showcase.

1) Final Fantasy 6. Still the best balanced of the series so far despite a large number of game breaker combos towards the end making things a bit too easy even with the inclusion of a bonus dungeon in the remake. If they made a new FF game with plot and characters this good, greater challenge level and a better battle system (or y'know, just re-use FFX's battle system), it might just dislodge this one as the best of its franchise.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Take Umbrage all you like, my position remains!

And how is it not like an RPG, I ask? Are role playing games not only rooted in, but essentially tactical affairs anyway? Aren't the origins of the word it'self draped in what was essentially turn based wargaming? Besides, the interactions and decisions in the game are more in depthj than most "select an attack and wait" affairs that bear the title of RPG.

If Final Fantasy Tactics and Fire Emblem games AND DARK SOULS can bear that title, I damn well say that Jagged Alliance can...

It has RPG elements, but at its heart, it is a turn based tactical shooter as a sub genre, and a tactics/strategy hybrid as a primary genre (a genre it shares with games like XCOM, Xenonauts, Fallout Tactics, etc). If you removed the RPG elements from Jagged Alliance 2, you'd still have a reasonably crunchy (if rather characterless) tactical game. If you removed the tactical elements, there'd be nothing there.

Dark Souls tends to be considered an RPG "proper" because character advancement and curation have been at the heart of *CRPG* design almost since inception. Narrative elements are almost a secondary consideration.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

If you removed the RPG elements from Jagged Alliance 2, you'd still have a reasonably crunchy (if rather characterless) tactical game.

EXACTLY!

And if it became characterless, it wouldn't be Jagged Alliance at all.

Dark Souls tends to be considered an RPG "proper" because character advancement and curation have been at the heart of *CRPG* design almost since inception. Narrative elements are almost a secondary consideration.

So character advancement and curation aren't part of Jagged Alliance? You sure you played those games?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

EXACTLY!

And if it became characterless, it wouldn't be Jagged Alliance at all.p

But it would still be *a game*. You could play it, and advance in it. It would be relatively intact. Perhaps not a great game, or even a particularly good game, but still *a game*. Because that's the core of the game play.

Character curation and advancement is NOT the core of JA2's gameplay. The tactical shooting is.

That said, I see from the Wiki that the game is considered to be a "tactical RPG", a sub-genre it seems to share with a great variety of Japanese console titles I am unfamiliar with, so I'm going to chalk this debate up to my western RPG bias and grudgingly concede the point.

 

[chrissx2]

Fallout 1/2
Arcanum
Gothic 2
Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines
Morrowind

 

[babinro]

Note: I'm looking to buy Withcher 3 during the Summer Steam sale and if what I've heard about that game is true...this time next year its entirely possible that game will be on this list.

Honorable Mention: KOTOR
KOTOR is incredible. What keeps it off the list is the fact that its more of a nostalgic game these days than a truly great one. Elements of the combat and ESPECIALLY transportation are dated in the worst ways possible. This game is a chore to play in 2017 but it contains a fantastic story, characters, and a great feeling of progression via combat over time.

5) Mass Effect 2
This is an RPG that focuses a lot on FUN and action. You may not get invested in the story but the game is a blast to go through, your companions are great, there are a few notable story elements but for the most part this is the ultimate popcorn flick RPG out there.

4) Tales of Symphonia
A pretty straightforward JRPG all told. The combat is fun and holds up well for current day. The characters are SUPER charming and lovable. I find myself fully invested in their journey even though it by all accounts feels generic and samey to the decades of RPG's preceding it. I adore the music in this game as well. This isn't a game that blows you away by any means, but its one that has a lasting impact on you by just how well it draws you in.

3) Dragon Age 2
This is a game that just keeps getting BETTER with time. I wish it was better received because this is THE direction I want to see RPG's go. The combat is phenomenal in how fun it is while keeping the sense of action high. Basic moves feel exciting and it only gets better. More importantly, this is an RPG that doesn't play on scale. It focuses on one primary location over time and plays on actions having consequences. I can't express how rewarding this is as a player. DA2 is a FLAWED game to boot. There's so much more room for refinement to what this opens up and yet its tragically ignored. When I first played this I thought it was great but DA1 was better. A few years later I revisited both and felt this was better than DA1. Even later I revisited DA2 again only to realize it held up better than the very best in the industry.

2) Zelda - A Link to the Past
This is like Tales of Symphonia in terms of simplicity but polished to perfection. It's incredible how replayable this game is when it has no moral choice systems or ways to shake up the mechanics. Fantastic music, beautiful story, iconic moments, fun gameplay. One of the best games ever made, RPG or not.

1) Final Fantasy 6
Hey look its my favorite game of all time. It takes a lot to surpass Link to the Past but this game does it. Why?
Outstanding soundtrack, lovable characters, an incredible villain and TONS of memorable moments burned into my memory.

Truth be told, this game is flawed. There are side quests and elements of the game that flesh out the run time and don't keep me invested. However, the music and moments that stuck with me and continue to shine when I replay the game in the current day make up for this games flaws. Its amazing just how much music and moments mean to a video game. Resident Evil 4 is in my top 5 games ever made and that's largely because of how many memorable lasting moments that game creates.

 

[MattH]

Let's talk some actual sense:

1. Baldurs Gate 2:
- most rich and diverse content of any RPG to date
- great storytelling, characters, world, atmosphere
- best combination of storytelling and gameplay, with the best and most fulfilling (tactical) combat system that Bioware and others since then only half-assedly tried to knock-off sometimes, preferring to suck up to (imagined!) trends or just straight failing at it

2. Planescape: Torment:
-some of the most innovative world-building and writing in any RPG to date, also CONVINCING
-some of the best character-development and storytelling in any game
-great freedom of choice and consequences with serious weight and believability, no shoehorned stuff or provoked reactions

3. KOTOR: Bioware's more or less ideal form of cinematic or action-oriented RPGs.

4, 5... Ah whatever. 4. maybe something Japanese, 5. The Witcher 3 for all I care (partly as a stand-in for open-world with little generic content, something yet to be mastered and explored).

 

[rednose1]

Final Fantasy 7 / Chrono Trigger / Breath of Fire 3 are my go-to's for examples of good RPGs. after that, it's a toss up (though I did recently get Witcher 3. Now all I need is time to play

 

[Drathnoxis]

I would agree. An impossible ask.
It just happens that I was replaying System Shock hence me bringing it up (also, I need to vent a little because I'm not really enjoying it). I actually starting playing because someone (not on this site) said that System Shock was a better RPG than Skyrim. I was actually surprised someone would make this claim, called shenanigans but decided I need to research it again, just in case my memory was bad (e.g. I replayed BG1&2 a couple of years ago and have re-evaluated. BG1 is a bad game but BG2 is still great).

Part of this process was me actually playing Skyrim for 10 hrs again. I think people are becoming overly harsh on its criticism but I also like the freedom that its modular design has compared to the restrictive connected design you see in Witcher 3 or Fallout NV.

How specifically do yo think Skyrim doesn't hold up?

I tried replaying the game a couple of years ago. I spent around 20 hours installing mods and getting it all running, trying to see what all the fuss about the modding scene was. When I started playing though, I just couldn't think of anything to do, I already did most of the quests when the game was new and they are all so shallow and uninteresting that I couldn't force myself to sit through them again. I think the quests in Oblivion were more interesting in general, if not much better written.

There aren't any good characters either. Most people just don't have much to say, and what little there is isn't very interesting. The incredibly small voice cast doesn't help things either, but it's not as big an issue as the poor writing. One thing I just don't understand about Bethesda is how they give the same dialogue lines to different actors, so you have different character of all races and genders saying the exact same thing. I don't get it, if you aren't saving the cost of the voice actors you might as well give them something unique to read.

Combat isn't very good either, and shuffling things around with mods doesn't make it any better. Enemies are so damage spongy, and there aren't a whole lot of combat options that actually help in a fight against a stronger opponent so the challenge isn't very fun. But if you abuse enchantment and smithing to overpower yourself, there isn't a lot of fun in that either.

Without good quests or characters the world feels shallow, and there isn't even good combat to make doing anything worthwhile.

I really wish I knew what people who've played it for years are doing in the game to find so much enjoyment in it. I've asked people, but nobodies really given me an answer.

I remember renting The Thousand Year Door, but I never bought it. I'm not sure of the exact reason, but not playing it through is the primary reason I don't feel like rating it higher than Paper Mario 64.

That said, based on what I've played of it and some of the other Mario RPGs, I should probably just put "Mario RPGs" as #4. Paper Mario 64 just sticks out more to me for not only being one I've completed but also the first one I played.

Ah, makes sense. You should definitely play TTYD whatever way you can. I really like a good number of the Mario RPGs, but I think TTYD was the peak of the "series". That's not an easy thing for me to say, because I really like Mario RPG and Paper Mario 64, but I think it's true.