Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

[TheMysteriousGX]

I remember vividly, when some red states removed social distance mandates ahead of other places, people freaked out that it was the end of the world. Then for the next few months, it wasn't the end of the world. When someone pointed this out here, another user claimed it's because people were still choosing to wear masks and social distance without the mandate, not understanding that's sort of the point.

People would have worn masks and social distanced without mandating it. More people would be vaccinated if it wasn't being forced down their throats. Limiting capacity inside buildings and cancelling large gatherings was probably a net win, and basically all the other laws have accomplished nothing but pissing people off. Not because masks or vaccines or distancing are bad, but because trying to take away people's personal decisions makes them less likely to agree with yours.

Oh yeah, it's going *great*

Florida reports record high number of new Covid-19 cases this week | CNN

Florida reported 134,506 new Covid-19 cases over the last week on Friday, more than any other 7-day period during the pandemic.

www.cnn.com

 

[tstorm823]

So if trump was touting it then there was good reason to be skeptical, but once we had the vaccine you tended to see much higher rates in democratic areas getting it then republican areas.

That isn't true. Early on, Republican areas were getting vaccinated at a much higher rate. If you check all the boxes for states in the graph on [ulr=[URL]https://ourworldindata.org/us-states-vaccinations]this[/URL] page[/url] you can see every states' progress over time. If you go to, let's say the ides of March, the top 10 most vaccinated states were Alaska, New Mexico, South Dakota, North Dakota, Hawaii, West Virginia, Connecticut, Maine, Montana, Wyoming. That's majority red states. It was 5 months of vaccinations until California caught West Virginia. I'm not going to pretend that's an inherently political thing, there are all sorts of logistical and population differences in different states, but the idea that once we had a vaccine Democrats got it faster defies evidence. It was after months of time, and only after people started talking about mandating vaccines and requiring papers that the rates flipped.

Also, the whole mask thing you are saying here, that is a LIE. You are just lying to us. You aren't even wrong, your are just a liar. You don't have to look far to see any of the republican pundits like tucker 'worst person in the world' carson telling people to call the cops if they see someone whos kids are wearing masks, or idiot religious people saying that masks are immoral since they cover gods gift of a face, or those selfish dumb fucks who just refuse to mask the fuck up cause someone told them they should and they are incapable of acting like they are older then 5 years old.

It isn't a lie. Do you recall the time that Trump did an interview with Wall Street Journal, and someone put it out to me here that Trump said masks were just people protesting him. I dug into the interview, and the interviewer asked Trump if he thought the masks were a sign of protest and he said "nah, I think people believe they help", and the interviewer was like "but really, don't you think some people are masking as a political symbol of disapproval for you", and he was like "maybe some people, but not most of them." And then they put the transcript behind a paywall, make a cut down opinion piece out of it, and by the time it got to the media at large it became "Trump Says Some wear Coronavirus Masks to Signal Disapproval of Him" The media manufactured a partisan split in mask wearing. They made masks into a team sport. It affected both parties' constituents. I'm not lying to you.

 

[tstorm823]

Oh yeah, it's going *great*

Florida reports record high number of new Covid-19 cases this week | CNN

Florida reported 134,506 new Covid-19 cases over the last week on Friday, more than any other 7-day period during the pandemic.

www.cnn.com

Hot places spike in the summer when people huddle in the AC. Cold places spite in the winter when people huddle in the heat. We've known this for a year at least, and it's currently summer in the US.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Hot places spike in the summer when people huddle in the AC. Cold places spite in the winter when people huddle in the heat. We've known this for a year at least, and it's currently summer in the US.

It's not just an uptick, it's record setting numbers, higher than any other 7 day period in Florida.

 

[Agema]

It isn't a lie. Do you recall the time that Trump did an interview with Wall Street Journal, and someone put it out to me here that Trump said masks were just people protesting him. I dug into the interview, and the interviewer asked Trump if he thought the masks were a sign of protest and he said "nah, I think people believe they help", and the interviewer was like "but really, don't you think some people are masking as a political symbol of disapproval for you", and he was like "maybe some people, but not most of them." And then they put the transcript behind a paywall, make a cut down opinion piece out of it, and by the time it got to the media at large it became "Trump Says Some wear Coronavirus Masks to Signal Disapproval of Him" The media manufactured a partisan split in mask wearing. They made masks into a team sport. It affected both parties' constituents. I'm not lying to you.

Oh for heaven's sakes.

You can't just pick one, single incident and say "Point proven". The simple fact is that Trump thoroughly bollocked up the messaging on masks from the word go. At the very first time the CDC made it a recommendation, Trump went out of his way to stress no-one had to wear a mask. He sometimes said people should wear masks, but then other times said they were useless, and sometimes made fun of people for doing so, and of course set the example by trying to never been seen in public wearing one. He did that because he didn't think it suited his image (as a strong leader) rather than considering the welfare of his citizens. This is revealed by the way he mocked Biden for it, to make out Biden was a coward: Trump thought wearing a mask made him look like one.

So what happened here is Trump downplayed and undermined the advice of his own government health agencies, and was therefore criticised for it. Consequently the right-wing media machine moved in to back him up by also downplaying masks, and then it became an ugly right-left contest rather than a public health mission. So you can say that Trump didn't actively make it a right-left issue and that's okay: but because he is erratic, careless and self-serving, he was the root cause of why it happened.

And that's the sort of reason he was a shit president.

 

[bluegate]

Just treat people like adults who can make their own decisions. Anything you do in any direction that restricts people's freedoms, even if only in their own mind, is going to create a backlash against you. Not necessarily the thing you're mandating or forbidding, but you.

"I'm an adult, mom! You can't tell me what to do!"

Roughly the level of maturity of the petulant, recalcitrant republicans.

 

[Seanchaidh]

And that's the sort of reason he was a shit president.

If he'd died from COVID, it would have made his presidency more effective.

 

[MrCalavera]

On a more serious note, whoever politicized this is to blame. Just let idiots die, lot more normal people on the right would prolly wear the mask if it wasn't tied to being a left-wing thing.

It's not the left-wing that politicized the masks, though.

 

[gorfias]

I'm hearing a lot from people from both sides. "Mask up and lock down or you're responsible for killing grandma!" vs studies that state masks and lock downs do virtually nothing. Example: https://padailypost.com/2021/01/18/stanford-study-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit/

I recall that we were just supposed to lock down for 2 weeks to flatten the curve. Then I recall the articles stating it is not remotely possible Covid could have come from a lab. Then there was the release of Fauci's email (Freedom of information act) which shows not only did it likely come from a lab, he individually may have helped fund gain of function research, illegal here in the USA but something that can be done in China.

And profits. The top 1% made a ton while small business in States like California were shuttered.

And our corporate media got a new issue to fear monger over. I hear their ratings are down anyway as they don't have orange man to lie about anymore.

We've been lied to. A lot. And it is hard to know who and what to trust.

What I've also experienced: Six young people in my extended family got it and found it to be less bothersome than the flu. I was told it is very disturbing to lose your sense of taste for a day or two but that was about it. I have one person in my extended family that has passed from Covid. She was 86 and had advanced OCPD. To date, the median age of death from Covid is around 80.

ITMT I have one buddy that was put down for 2 days by shot 2, which appears to be ineffective. I return to work on site soon... but have to wear a mask all day.

I don't think we should have done any of this (lock down, masks, shots).

 

[MrCalavera]

I don't think we should have done any of this (lock down, masks, shots).

Many people think that. I think they should be ignored.

 

[gorfias]

Many people think that. I think they should be ignored.

Why?

 

[tstorm823]

"I'm an adult, mom! You can't tell me what to do!"

Roughly the level of maturity of the petulant, recalcitrant republicans.

I mean, if you want to argue that human psychology only applies to Republicans, I'm not sure where that leads you.

 

[Seanchaidh]

Why?

Because COVID is awful and spreading it is unnecessary and harmful.

 

[gorfias]

Because COVID is awful and spreading it is unnecessary and harmful.

But in ignoring critics, you may miss out on the truth at a time we are being lied to, a lot.
Do you recall articles stating this couldn't have come from a lab? 2 weeks to flatten the curve. Fauci saying masks are unimportant, then telling us he was lying because he wanted them reserved for 1st responders and more?

And now I'm reading our response to Covid is some 300 times more harmful than just ignoring it.

The Chinese may have shortened the human life span forever. Screwing up everyone's lives and destroying our economies, causing suicide, bankruptcy, shortages, death from other causes as medical care and more are un-avilable? Not something we should be doing.

Do you think the variant will prolong mask wearing? Will we lock down again?

 

[MrCalavera]

Why?

If, in a time of crisis, you can't be arsed to do the bare minimum, your opinion also should matter in minimal way.

I am willing to entertain those who argue whether masks, lockdowns or vaccines should be the leading way to fight pandemic. But those that don't want any preventative measures? I am not.
They put themselves out of the discourse.

 

[gorfias]

If, in a time of crisis, you can't be arsed to do the bare minimum, your opinion also should matter in minimal way.

I am willing to entertain those who argue whether masks, lockdowns or vaccines should be the leading way to fight pandemic. But those that don't want any preventative measures? I am not.
They put themselves out of the discourse.

The bare minimum? Thailand wicked locked down. My friend had to stay isolated for 2 weeks before being allowed to visit her father. Well, her father died before they let her out.

This thing has not been without serious costs and ignoring critics keeps you from knowing that and being responsible.

 

[Buyetyen]

But in ignoring critics, you may miss out on the truth at a time we are being lied to, a lot.

Being a critic does not make one correct. Again, you really need to vet this shit.

Do you recall articles stating this couldn't have come from a lab? 2 weeks to flatten the curve. Fauci saying masks are unimportant, then telling us he was lying because he wanted them reserved for 1st responders and more?

And now I'm reading our response to Covid is some 300 times more harmful than just ignoring it.

Where the fuck are you reading this shit?

Do you think the variant will prolong mask wearing? Will we lock down again?

Yes and maybe. Because of conservative resistance to vaccination, our window of opportunity for stopping corona from becoming endemic is basically closed.

The bare minimum? Thailand wicked locked down. My friend had to stay isolated for 2 weeks before being allowed to visit her father. Well, her father died before they let her out.

This thing has not been without serious costs and ignoring critics keeps you from knowing that and being responsible.

Times have been tough all over, but many of us are willing to shoulder the responsibilities to keep other people and ourselves safe. The Republicans have rejected the idea that we have any kind of societal responsibility toward one another.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

But in ignoring critics, you may miss out on the truth at a time we are being lied to, a lot.
Do you recall articles stating this couldn't have come from a lab? 2 weeks to flatten the curve. Fauci saying masks are unimportant, then telling us he was lying because he wanted them reserved for 1st responders and more?

And now I'm reading our response to Covid is some 300 times more harmful than just ignoring it.

The Chinese may have shortened the human life span forever. Screwing up everyone's lives and destroying our economies, causing suicide, bankruptcy, shortages, death from other causes as medical care and more are un-avilable? Not something we should be doing.

Do you think the variant will prolong mask wearing? Will we lock down again?

You read sites that regularly argue that people should be willing and happy to die to boost shareholder prices

 

[Baffle]

You read sites that regularly argue that people should be willing and happy to die to boost shareholder prices

The Telegraph?

 

[Agema]

This thing has not been without serious costs and ignoring critics keeps you from knowing that and being responsible.

If you don't take serious infection control measures the economy goes down the sewer anyway, because when people start dying in heaps, the public starts getting very alarmed, and take more serious steps anyway - it's just a lot more people die before they take action. Not only that, but people sick and dying is bad for the economy, because if they're hospitalised and dying they're not doing useful things like making money and spending it. And after they die, a lot of their estate is likely to be in limbo and until everything is transferred to inheritors.

Broadly there's a positive correlation between deaths and economic losses when we look at different countries. In the end, what seems clear is that countries that best controlled the pandemic took the least economic damage. Thus this idea of "economy or lives" is a myth.