Lightsabers and Colour

[The Bucket]

Snip!!

The Jedi don't actually practice absolutism. It's NOT "the Jedi way or the highway." They do believe the Jedi way is best, but only in the same way any real religion thinks their way is the correct faith. They don't force anyone into their order. They're fine with Jedi leaving the order as well, as seen with Ahsoka. The only problem they have is with force-sensitives who use the dark side, because, historically, the dark side does nothing but conquer and destroy. Obi-Wan and Yoda only insisted that Luke must FACE Vader, I don't recall them ever saying he must kill him. They were staunchly against Luke going to save his friends because Luke wasn't READY to save his friends. Even then, once his mind was made up they allowed him to go. Of note: he got his ass handed to him by Vader, and his friends escaped on their own.

The Jedi were never shown to be absolutely correct, but that doesn't mean you throw out everything they teach. Yoda and Obi-Wan taught Luke the Jedi way, and then passed on, leaving him to decide the fate of the Order. They clearly approved of his actions at the end of Return of the Jedi, otherwise they wouldn't have been smiling or they may not have shown up at all.

I agree with most of what you say, but then not forcing anyone into their order is kind of debatable. They dont physically strongarm anyone in, but they convince parents to give up their children and indoctrinate them in the orders teaching from an extremely young age, before they can have any say in it. They were so reluctant to take Anakin because 10 was so old by their standards and they wouldn't be able to exactly mold his values in a closed environment.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

The dichotomy of strict self control or a fall to the dark side makes no sense, because it says that force sensitives have to be Jedi, or be evil.

If you look at how the Sith work, they're not people who failed to control themselves, they're people who let their ambition rule them. They're an allegory for power, specifically political/ruling power, being a corrupting force. The Sith way of a ruthless quest for domination and power is the image of their corruption. It's also why they have to be iron fisted, because they make enemies everywhere. Which sets them up for their own fall from grace, usually at the hands of their own apprentice.

The Jedi on the other hand are the allegory for warrior monks, or more specifically the samurai. They give up everything to serve the greater good, to be mediators and peace keepers. Because they're supposed to lack desire for power and personal attachment, they're supposed to be incorruptible. Supposed to be, but aren't, because they can get over zealous and set themselves up for failure.

Still that leaves a lot of room between the two, people ranging from force sensitives who never have formal training, who may or may not find their own way. Sith and Jedi who lose faith in their master, or order, so they leave and exile them selves. To those who might have formal training, but go of to pursue their own interests and fortunes. Nothing says that one has to pick one order, or the other, except for the Jedi and Sith themselves. The reason you wouldn't see many force sensitives identified is a pretty simple reason, they'd keep their heads down, because they'd be pestered by the Jedi to follow the Jedi way, or would have a Sith attempt to recruit, or kill them.

 

[Drakmorg]

Is anyone other than Samuel L. Jackson allowed to have a purple lightsaber? If yes, then that. If no, fuck you gimme purple, I'm just gonna go Sith anyway. Except instead of being a brooding, constantly angry shit-bird like 99% of all Sith ever, I'd have some actual fun with it, like The Emperor and basically no one else because for some reason somewhere along the line someone decided that all Sith should just be Kratos.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Is anyone other than Samuel L. Jackson allowed to have a purple lightsaber? If yes, then that. If no, fuck you gimme purple, I'm just gonna go Sith anyway. Except instead of being a brooding, constantly angry shit-bird like 99% of all Sith ever, I'd have some actual fun with it, like The Emperor and basically no one else because for some reason somewhere along the line someone decided that all Sith should just be Kratos.

If you take the legends canon, then Revan had a violet light saber, it's not supposed to be a unique color.

 

[Rebel_Raven]

Not saying i'd be a jedi (frankly, I wouldn't) but a shade of green. Maybe some way to adjust the colors in the green range like an rgb slider. I like green a lot. Lime Green, maybe, if I went sith cozza the Disney rule that lime green=evil.
I'd definitely try to go the route of not being a sith, but some other force using faction since I'm too nice to be Sith, too not Jedi to be Jedi.

Not sure about the style. I like the idea of flexibility, so the build-a-lightsaber style dealie might be neat.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Snip!!

The Jedi don't actually practice absolutism. It's NOT "the Jedi way or the highway." They do believe the Jedi way is best, but only in the same way any real religion thinks their way is the correct faith. They don't force anyone into their order. They're fine with Jedi leaving the order as well, as seen with Ahsoka. The only problem they have is with force-sensitives who use the dark side, because, historically, the dark side does nothing but conquer and destroy. Obi-Wan and Yoda only insisted that Luke must FACE Vader, I don't recall them ever saying he must kill him. They were staunchly against Luke going to save his friends because Luke wasn't READY to save his friends. Even then, once his mind was made up they allowed him to go. Of note: he got his ass handed to him by Vader, and his friends escaped on their own.

The Jedi were never shown to be absolutely correct, but that doesn't mean you throw out everything they teach. Yoda and Obi-Wan taught Luke the Jedi way, and then passed on, leaving him to decide the fate of the Order. They clearly approved of his actions at the end of Return of the Jedi, otherwise they wouldn't have been smiling or they may not have shown up at all.

I agree with most of what you say, but then not forcing anyone into their order is kind of debatable. They dont physically strongarm anyone in, but they convince parents to give up their children and indoctrinate them in the orders teaching from an extremely young age, before they can have any say in it. They were so reluctant to take Anakin because 10 was so old by their standards and they wouldn't be able to exactly mold his values in a closed environment.

It's not all about whether a person is "moldable," it's that taking them in at a young age ensures they don't have any real attachments to their former life. The concern wasn't that Anakin would be rebellious, but that he grew up with and was deeply attached to his mother. That sort of strong attachment can (and in Anakin's case, did) lead to the dark side. Even Luke had attachments that made training him in the Force dangerous. In Empire he let those attachments get in the way of his better judgement, and almost got himself killed for it.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Snip!!

The Jedi don't actually practice absolutism. It's NOT "the Jedi way or the highway." They do believe the Jedi way is best, but only in the same way any real religion thinks their way is the correct faith. They don't force anyone into their order. They're fine with Jedi leaving the order as well, as seen with Ahsoka. The only problem they have is with force-sensitives who use the dark side, because, historically, the dark side does nothing but conquer and destroy. Obi-Wan and Yoda only insisted that Luke must FACE Vader, I don't recall them ever saying he must kill him. They were staunchly against Luke going to save his friends because Luke wasn't READY to save his friends. Even then, once his mind was made up they allowed him to go. Of note: he got his ass handed to him by Vader, and his friends escaped on their own.

The Jedi were never shown to be absolutely correct, but that doesn't mean you throw out everything they teach. Yoda and Obi-Wan taught Luke the Jedi way, and then passed on, leaving him to decide the fate of the Order. They clearly approved of his actions at the end of Return of the Jedi, otherwise they wouldn't have been smiling or they may not have shown up at all.

I agree with most of what you say, but then not forcing anyone into their order is kind of debatable. They dont physically strongarm anyone in, but they convince parents to give up their children and indoctrinate them in the orders teaching from an extremely young age, before they can have any say in it. They were so reluctant to take Anakin because 10 was so old by their standards and they wouldn't be able to exactly mold his values in a closed environment.

It's not all about whether a person is "moldable," it's that taking them in at a young age ensures they don't have any real attachments to their former life. The concern wasn't that Anakin would be rebellious, but that he grew up with and was deeply attached to his mother. That sort of strong attachment can (and in Anakin's case, did) lead to the dark side. Even Luke had attachments that made training him in the Force dangerous. In Empire he let those attachments get in the way of his better judgement, and almost got himself killed for it.

That particular theory gets shot down, as padawans often form attachments to their masters as parental figures. Qui-Gon's death caused Obi-Wan to go against his better judgment and commit to a fight with Darth Maul. If Sidious had been present, he could have at that point easily pushed Obi-Wan to the dark side with the anger over Qui-Gon's death.

 

[Kolby Jack]

Snip!!

The Jedi don't actually practice absolutism. It's NOT "the Jedi way or the highway." They do believe the Jedi way is best, but only in the same way any real religion thinks their way is the correct faith. They don't force anyone into their order. They're fine with Jedi leaving the order as well, as seen with Ahsoka. The only problem they have is with force-sensitives who use the dark side, because, historically, the dark side does nothing but conquer and destroy. Obi-Wan and Yoda only insisted that Luke must FACE Vader, I don't recall them ever saying he must kill him. They were staunchly against Luke going to save his friends because Luke wasn't READY to save his friends. Even then, once his mind was made up they allowed him to go. Of note: he got his ass handed to him by Vader, and his friends escaped on their own.

The Jedi were never shown to be absolutely correct, but that doesn't mean you throw out everything they teach. Yoda and Obi-Wan taught Luke the Jedi way, and then passed on, leaving him to decide the fate of the Order. They clearly approved of his actions at the end of Return of the Jedi, otherwise they wouldn't have been smiling or they may not have shown up at all.

I agree with most of what you say, but then not forcing anyone into their order is kind of debatable. They dont physically strongarm anyone in, but they convince parents to give up their children and indoctrinate them in the orders teaching from an extremely young age, before they can have any say in it. They were so reluctant to take Anakin because 10 was so old by their standards and they wouldn't be able to exactly mold his values in a closed environment.

It's not all about whether a person is "moldable," it's that taking them in at a young age ensures they don't have any real attachments to their former life. The concern wasn't that Anakin would be rebellious, but that he grew up with and was deeply attached to his mother. That sort of strong attachment can (and in Anakin's case, did) lead to the dark side. Even Luke had attachments that made training him in the Force dangerous. In Empire he let those attachments get in the way of his better judgement, and almost got himself killed for it.

That particular theory gets shot down, as padawans often form attachments to their masters as parental figures. Qui-Gon's death caused Obi-Wan to go against his better judgment and commit to a fight with Darth Maul. If Sidious had been present, he could have at that point easily pushed Obi-Wan to the dark side with the anger over Qui-Gon's death.

JEDI FEEL EMOTIONS. They always have, and they do form bonds. Obi-Wan was upset by Qui-Gon's death but he didn't lash out like Luke did in Jedi, he focused. He still almost lost, too, but he was able to collect himself and deliver the killing blow. Contrast Anakin, who in his anger slaughtered an entire village. There's a HUGE difference between focusing when the chips are down and the stakes are high and lashing out in rage.

And Obi-Wan was already committed to the fight long before Qui-Gon was killed, so I don't get why you even mentioned that. They were fighting for several minutes by that point and running away was not really an option.

 

[Sheo_Dagana]

I'd like to utilize two, because that's what my Zabrak does in SWTOR. I would use one blue and one red, because colors based on Force-alignment is fucking stupid.

That's kind of the problem with Star Wars - the Jedi are supposed to be these serene, peaceful and emotionless people (who are at least capable of keeping those emotions in check), but even Yoda gets irritated and frustrated by Luke in Empire, Obi-Wan is kind of a sadistic prick that was hoping Luke would just kill his father without ever finding out, and then used semantics to cover it up, and the Sith don't always adhere to being the biggest dicks possible. We see very little of them in the actual canon, but they struggle with the light side as well. Hell, Vader is basically a paladin turned evil - so lawful and dedicated to order that he was willing to use the power of the dark side if that's what it takes. He also doesn't particularly seem to care for the Death Star, and not just because some smug dude thought it was superior to the Force. He seemed to take no pleasure in the destruction of Alderaan, but given how powerful the character is because he's so hard to get a read on, this may be me reaching a bit.

So yeah, all that said, I think it's cool for me to want a red lightsaber and not be a Sith. Sure, I might end up falling to the Dark Side, but not because I just wanted my weapon to be my favorite color.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Snip!!

The Jedi don't actually practice absolutism. It's NOT "the Jedi way or the highway." They do believe the Jedi way is best, but only in the same way any real religion thinks their way is the correct faith. They don't force anyone into their order. They're fine with Jedi leaving the order as well, as seen with Ahsoka. The only problem they have is with force-sensitives who use the dark side, because, historically, the dark side does nothing but conquer and destroy. Obi-Wan and Yoda only insisted that Luke must FACE Vader, I don't recall them ever saying he must kill him. They were staunchly against Luke going to save his friends because Luke wasn't READY to save his friends. Even then, once his mind was made up they allowed him to go. Of note: he got his ass handed to him by Vader, and his friends escaped on their own.

The Jedi were never shown to be absolutely correct, but that doesn't mean you throw out everything they teach. Yoda and Obi-Wan taught Luke the Jedi way, and then passed on, leaving him to decide the fate of the Order. They clearly approved of his actions at the end of Return of the Jedi, otherwise they wouldn't have been smiling or they may not have shown up at all.

I agree with most of what you say, but then not forcing anyone into their order is kind of debatable. They dont physically strongarm anyone in, but they convince parents to give up their children and indoctrinate them in the orders teaching from an extremely young age, before they can have any say in it. They were so reluctant to take Anakin because 10 was so old by their standards and they wouldn't be able to exactly mold his values in a closed environment.

It's not all about whether a person is "moldable," it's that taking them in at a young age ensures they don't have any real attachments to their former life. The concern wasn't that Anakin would be rebellious, but that he grew up with and was deeply attached to his mother. That sort of strong attachment can (and in Anakin's case, did) lead to the dark side. Even Luke had attachments that made training him in the Force dangerous. In Empire he let those attachments get in the way of his better judgement, and almost got himself killed for it.

That particular theory gets shot down, as padawans often form attachments to their masters as parental figures. Qui-Gon's death caused Obi-Wan to go against his better judgment and commit to a fight with Darth Maul. If Sidious had been present, he could have at that point easily pushed Obi-Wan to the dark side with the anger over Qui-Gon's death.

JEDI FEEL EMOTIONS. They always have, and they do form bonds. Obi-Wan was upset by Qui-Gon's death but he didn't lash out like Luke did in Jedi, he focused. He still almost lost, too, but he was able to collect himself and deliver the killing blow. Contrast Anakin, who in his anger slaughtered an entire village. There's a HUGE difference between focusing when the chips are down and the stakes are high and lashing out in rage.

And Obi-Wan was already committed to the fight long before Qui-Gon was killed, so I don't get why you even mentioned that. They were fighting for several minutes by that point and running away was not really an option.

Obi-Wan would have been wise to retreat from a fight that killed his much more skilled and experienced mentor. He only won the fight because he had his anger to fuel his resolve at that point, the force field room opened the the exit way first. Again, the smart choice would have been to retreat, that's something padawans are taught. Remember, Maul killed Qui-Gon, a Jedi Master, not a Knight, a freaking Jedi Master. By all reasonable standards Obi-Wan, a Padawan, should have taken any chance to escape the fight, or at the very least orchestrate an advantage.

There was basically no justification for Obi-Wan continuing the fight except for the rage he felt over Qui-Gon's death. Is it understandable? Absolutely! Still, the action he took by all rights should have gotten him killed, that's beside the fact that giving into rage, by becoming determined to fight a demonstrably superior foe, that was a dangerously close brush with the dark side. Obi-Wan was fortunate enough to at least learn a lesson in self control and determination from that, not every Jedi has that kind of fortune.

While Anakin went berserk with rage and Luke went head long into a losing situation through sheer bullheadedness, Anakin was setup for a fall, where Luke was destined to make that confrontation. Regardless they both had some growth from their mistakes too. Anakin was shattered by how he let his rage control him, while Luke valiantly resisted the allure of the dark side.

The whole point, is that no Jedi is free of attachment, even those that are removed from their family before they can form strong attachments to their family. Hell Luke basically had no true familial attachment. The people he was working with were all strangers to him in A New Hope, that he'd only known for 3 years at best. He lost his only known family and Obi-Wan the only other life long attachment at the start of his adventure. To be honest, Obi-Wan's attachment to Qui-Gon was probably far stronger than Luke's to Han, Leia, and Chewie, along with Anakin's attachment to his mother. One was working with people he really didn't know as any better than friends and accomplices, the other was estranged from his only family. Anakin's comparable attachments were to Obi-Wan and Padme, both of whom Sidious used against him to turn him to the dark side.

 

[Naraka]

The dichotomy of strict self control or a fall to the dark side makes no sense, because it says that force sensitives have to be Jedi, or be evil.

It makes sense within the bullshit, kiddie world of Star Wars. It stops making sense when adults try to act like Star Wars was some great symbolic work of art and apply it to a broader universe. Magic laser-swordfighting knights is fun and funny, but not smart or insightful. The unworkable, morality of the universe and its magic is a reflection of a flawed premise, not an endless debate to be had.

Find a richer property with more inherent subtlety, clearly you're ready for it.

 

[Artina89]

My favourite colour is blue, so I would probably go for that colour over all the others. A close second is green. Probably quite boring as they seem to be the most common lightsaber colours, but I can't help what I like.

 

[RJ 17]

I'd have a plaid double-bladed lightsaber and use it to fuel sweet rave parties.

Spoiler: Seizure Warning

Insert Sandstorm.

 

[fezzthemonk]

I feel like grey jedi are a title for those that dont fit into either path.

Ot: Im going with a black or silver/white blade. The rest of the lightsaber would be organic. I'd probobly be concitered a dark jedi for a good while, but my saber needs to be created... for science. After that though, Id drift. Mainly stopping people i think are being dicks.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

The dichotomy of strict self control or a fall to the dark side makes no sense, because it says that force sensitives have to be Jedi, or be evil.

It makes sense within the bullshit, kiddie world of Star Wars. It stops making sense when adults try to act like Star Wars was some great symbolic work of art and apply it to a broader universe. Magic laser-swordfighting knights is fun and funny, but not smart or insightful. The unworkable, morality of the universe and its magic is a reflection of a flawed premise, not an endless debate to be had.

Find a richer property with more inherent subtlety, clearly you're ready for it.

Star Wars is a property thats a space opera, plus it's very fantasy science fiction, but science fiction, fantasy, and even space operas, including Star Wars aren't banished from ideas of subtlety and gray morality. KotOR and KotOR 2 are both good examples of being able to be flexible in the more subtle and less straight foreword concepts of morality, and how that can be applied to the Sith and Jedi. Basically George Lucas failing as a writer doesn't invalidate the idea that Star Wars can be more, just like Gene Roddenberry's insistence on no interpersonal problems between crew members on TNG didn't hold up, because it would have made the show boring. Really even in the original trilogy, it was high lighted that dogmatic paragons good and nadirs of evil aren't functional even within the context of the Star Wars canon. The Jedi and Sith are both failure states in their pure forms, the parties who actually get shit done are much more morally questionable. Like Han whose a smuggler and Lando the massive con artist, even Luke fails on the traditional Jedi/Sith morality scale.

 

[Naraka]

The dichotomy of strict self control or a fall to the dark side makes no sense, because it says that force sensitives have to be Jedi, or be evil.

It makes sense within the bullshit, kiddie world of Star Wars. It stops making sense when adults try to act like Star Wars was some great symbolic work of art and apply it to a broader universe. Magic laser-swordfighting knights is fun and funny, but not smart or insightful. The unworkable, morality of the universe and its magic is a reflection of a flawed premise, not an endless debate to be had.

Find a richer property with more inherent subtlety, clearly you're ready for it.

Star Wars is a property thats a space opera, plus it's very fantasy science fiction, but science fiction, fantasy, and even space operas, including Star Wars aren't banished from ideas of subtlety and gray morality.

Conflating a single work within a genre with the possibilities of the entire genre? Cute. Star Wars isn't all of scifi, it isn't even very good fantasy/sci-fi. It's very fun though. Weak premises can make for fun films, but they rarely hold up beyond that. Star Wars is a great example, and why there is essentially a cult of it, and then all of the people who don't give a flying fuck about it.

KotOR and KotOR 2 are both good examples of being able to be flexible in the more subtle and less straight foreword concepts of morality, and how that can be applied to the Sith and Jedi. Basically George Lucas failing as a writer doesn't invalidate the idea that Star Wars can be more, just like Gene Roddenberry's insistence on no interpersonal problems between crew members on TNG didn't hold up, because it would have made the show boring. Really even in the original trilogy, it was high lighted that dogmatic paragons good and nadirs of evil aren't functional even within the context of the Star Wars canon. The Jedi and Sith are both failure states in their pure forms, the parties who actually get shit done are much more morally questionable. Like Han whose a smuggler and Lando the massive con artist, even Luke fails on the traditional Jedi/Sith morality scale.

You can turn something into something more, but the basic Star Wars property is the movies, and they've never moved beyond the weakest space opera.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Conflating a single work within a genre with the possibilities of the entire genre? Cute. Star Wars isn't all of scifi, it isn't even very good fantasy/sci-fi. It's very fun though. Weak premises can make for fun films, but they rarely hold up beyond that. Star Wars is a great example, and why there is essentially a cult of it, and then all of the people who don't give a flying fuck about it.

I didn't conflate Star Wars with the entire of it's genre, or sub-genre, I said it wasn't forbidden from being deeper than most people perceive it. That's just putting words in my mouth.

ou can turn something into something more, but the basic Star Wars property is the movies, and they've never moved beyond the weakest space opera.

As with the second half of the upper paragraph, that's your opinion and I think that position only takes the Star Wars movies on face value. Which is fine, but I've always looked past the superficial exterior of the franchise, to see what I could make of what's going on under the surface. That makes Star Wars hold up better and show a more complex deepness, in my opinion.

But that's subjectiveness for you. Some people see deeper things in Star Wars, others see silly sci-fi special effects popcorn films.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

Not everything can be boiled down to or hand-waved away as, "That's just like, your opinion man." Subjectivity, she is interesting, but that's no reason to ride the poor old whore quite so hard. I respect your, what do you kids call it now, "Head Canon", I just remember what's actually been shown in film. What's actually out there is laughably thin. That you and so many others can imagine depth to it, is sweet though.

I think what you have is a lack of insightful empathy. Star Wars isn't a massive global cultural phenomenon on a lack of depth, movies with the kind of staying power the original trilogy has speaks of story and elements that people can relate to. Now considering that I've just re-watched the original trilogy, it's still fresh in my memory, I can in fact your statement about "head canon" is undoubtedly a load of steaming tripe.

Now, dismissive attitued, talking down to other people, and blatant ageism with a person whose probably not that much younger than you... That tells me how much attention to pay to your posts in the future. None. It's be an gas talking with you, but after that post you showed how much you value the opinion of others, which tells me how much I should value yours. Because a dismissive self superior hand-wave is even more humorous in the context of it being a hypocrisy, because of you calling subjectivity a hand-wave.

 

[aba1]

Is anyone other than Samuel L. Jackson allowed to have a purple lightsaber? If yes, then that.

Basically me XD. I always loved that purple lightsaber plus mace was a really bad ass character! If I couldn't have the purple lightsaber though I would likely go green I suspect. I am much more of a Jedi type in that I don't let me emotions dictate my actions all too often which is both a bad and good thing sometimes.