Looks like LulzSec is in trouble

[Awexsome]

-snip-

I'm not going to claim vast knowledge on how the hackers did it but I am going to claim that the security firms, Sony's network engineers and the hacking groups dedicated to this kind of illegal activity know more about it that you or anyone else does.

At this point in the story it really is black and white though. Sony has not been throwing blame around and has been fully invested in upgrading its security and trying to win its customers trust back for quite some time now and I've never seen them throwing blame around at all even when the story first broke. They were just investigating to find out who did it, sure, but their main focus and message was to get their own shit together. But when it comes to Lulz-sec by the time they created themselves they were the bad guys.

They made it their goal after the first intrusion and after compromising everyone's security info to keep going at Sony. I'll admit to grey in the Geohotz case but Lulz-sec is nothing better than criminals.

And the Geohotz case? It was too much about just removing the OS and not enough WHY they removed the OS. It's been a while but I know that the jailbreak's big controversy was swinging the doors wide open to pirates but that's a discussion for another thread.

I just said I wasn't talking about Geohotz. I could care less about what he did. It has no real relevance to the other issue I have been talking about, the only possible reason you keep bringing it up is because it's something you can make seem related that you can argue against, a strawman if you will.

Sony hasn't been passing the blame? I think we have been reading different news about this. Makes me think your news might be delivered to your email box by Sony, while I have been (possibly unfortunately for me, but not likely) relying on news sites to deliver stories about this fiasco to me.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS AT ALL WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THIS WAY

Why can't Lulzsack or whatever be a bunch of douche bags AND Sony? Why does the blame lie on one or the other?

Fact: Taking people's private information is wrong. This is what Lulz did.

Fact: Sony should have MUCH better security systems. This is not debatable. Someone in an earlier thread said Sony has been hacked some 16 times.

Therefore: Lulzdudes are assholes. AND PS3 HAS NO GAMES LOL

No, but seriously, Sony sucks too.

Also: comparing Sony to a rape victim is ridiculous. Sony has been attacked due to their incompetence. That is not analogous to a rape victim.

It isn't very elegant, but that is exactly what I have been saying to the other quoted poster in this post. Maybe he will get it now. Blame lies on both sides of this. Thanks person I will now know as random poster #23 that agreed with me on one issue.

Your constant accusations of fanboy are getting pretty fucking annoying at this point.

All I remember is one news story here that the investigation led to possible Anon involvement at first. I remember a load of speculation and accusations on forums and the like, but nothing by Sony themselves.

The reason I keep bringing Geo up is how the case started off much differently. Back when the whole thing started with Geo you had the biggest issue being Sony restricting consoles for controversial reasons in an arguably dubious way.

Then came the first intrusion. Again, arguably Sony could've done a better job with it and maybe could have. Even so the large majority of the blame I place on the outlaws who stole and published peoples' information more than Sony for failing to stop it. Something we can agree to disagree on.

Now we have Lulz-sec. A group dedicated at this point to make Sony's life a living hell to prove their point. Endangering Sony and their thousands of innocent employees and millions of customers. Sony is currently focused on trying to gain back their customer's trust by upgrading their security and all the perks they're giving out on the PSN. Sony's eager to put this whole thing behind them, proving that with all the apologies for their share of the blame and the perks to the PSN returners.

I can't see any form of good left in the hackers side at this point. Any action they take further against Sony is just blatantly illegal and does only harm to everyone but themselves and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I believe I called into question the sources of your information, stating that they probably came prepackaged with bias. I only stated once that you where a fanboy, so it's hardly a repetative accusation that you can grow fucking tired of.

Which brings me to a question: Why are you even in this discussion?

You admitted earlier to not knowing jack about security. Now you admit to not even following the news about this. I have issue with you stating as fact what is little more then an opinion based on your limited understanding of the topic. Please in the future at least have a passing knowledge of the topic at hand before diving into it head first.

A person punching me in the face doesn't excuse me calling him a bastard and drunkenly hitting on his girlfriend all night, through I won't be spending the night in jail if that is all I did you have to admit at least some of the responsibility for the night is on my shoulders in that scenario.

You also need to stop changing my stance on issues into something you feel you can form an argument again. I have not once excused the actions of the hackers (as you have probably already been told multiple times was not the group you keep accusing) or tried to paint them in a positive light. I claim responsibility lies with both parties. You keep trying to say that an illegal activity excuses all blame from another entity. That's about as untrue as you can get.

Yeah ok. Let me first say I don't fucking like you or your pretentiousness at this point.

Now at this point let me sum myself up so you don't have to fucking insult my knowledge on anything anymore.

The whole thing started off with the case. Myself thinking Sony was in the full right to restrict the use of the OS and was in no way illegal and at worst just a dick move but it was defenitly a grey area case. Both sides had good points.

Sony gets hacked first time. You put blame on both sides, I put it mostly on one side, but acknowledge that Sony still has blame on them.

Lulz-sec starts up. Sony is now forced to undergo constant threats to their security because the hackers want to prove their point. Endangering the company, the employees, and their customers. Lulz-sec are the bad guys. Sony are now the good guys.

I'm not being pretentious. I have not made a great show of my own worth. I have not tried to deceive you into believing I am an expert where I am not (really I have only claimed you are not informed enough). I could be considered condescending at worst (should you decide to take the post that way).

You probably should be asking yourself the same questions I asked. To think that maybe you don't know enough about the issue you are debating to form valid points. That it wouldn't hurt to go read up on the subject before you let your fingers engage your fury.

You seem a little frustrated right now. Which is probably the worst time to be posting in these here forums. I highly suggest that you settle things for the night and return to this with a clean frame of mind in the morning (or later in the day depending on where in the world you live).

Fine. You seem more interested in talking about me than the threat anyway in the last posts.

 

[Bat Vader]

Honestly I'm rooting for lulzsec. They are willing to show these people how poorly these companies defend themselves, which is needed.

I don't agree with how they are going about it. Innocent people are having their personal information posted online. If they want to show these companies how to defend against hacking better that is one thing but they should not be posting the personal information of innocent people online.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Honestly I'm rooting for lulzsec. They are willing to show these people how poorly these companies defend themselves, which is needed.

I don't agree with how they are going about it. Innocent people are having their information posted online. If they want to show these companies how to defend against hacking better that is one thing but they should not be posting the information of innocent people online.

But doesn't their ability to simply snatch info from servers as easily as they did show how irresponsibly corporations treat their customers? These hackers have reinforced the idea that companies don't give two shits about your personal information.

 

[Bat Vader]

Honestly I'm rooting for lulzsec. They are willing to show these people how poorly these companies defend themselves, which is needed.

I don't agree with how they are going about it. Innocent people are having their information posted online. If they want to show these companies how to defend against hacking better that is one thing but they should not be posting the information of innocent people online.

But doesn't their ability to simply snatch info from servers as easily as they did show how irresponsibly corporations treat their customers? These hackers have reinforced the idea that companies don't give two shits about your personal information.

Neither do these hackers. If these hackers really cared about protecting the personal information of people they would not be stealing it and posting it online.

 

[notimeforlulz]

I'm not a hacker and even I know how easily I can be found by using IRC. 'whois' and bam, FBI has got you. I'm pretty sure even script kiddies know enough to proxy up before they launch IRC to go and chat in a hacking chat room, so I really doubt that this guy the FBI have nabbed is actually a hacker, as I said on kotaku, shooting a bystander.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

Honestly I'm rooting for lulzsec. They are willing to show these people how poorly these companies defend themselves, which is needed.

I don't agree with how they are going about it. Innocent people are having their information posted online. If they want to show these companies how to defend against hacking better that is one thing but they should not be posting the information of innocent people online.

But doesn't their ability to simply snatch info from servers as easily as they did show how irresponsibly corporations treat their customers? These hackers have reinforced the idea that companies don't give two shits about your personal information.

Neither do these hackers. If these hackers really cared about protecting the personal information of people they would not be stealing it and posting it online.

I never said they cared. Whether or not they cared is irrelevant.What they're doing is show how these companies treat their customers.

 

[FallenMessiah88]

Fuck Lulzsec. They are nothing but criminals and they need to be taken down, like the filthy dogs they are.

 

[maddawg IAJI]

you wanna watch the FBI and Sony ream guys in the ass?

Totally. They deserve every minute of jailtime they get over it.

Why? Cause you couldn't play Socom for a couple days?

Didn't Sony sell PS3 touting their capability to run multiple operating systems (i.e. Linux) and then go back on that by removing functions and punishing it's users until they updated their PS3's to remove the capability to run other OS's?

Sounds like Sony should be punished....oh wait

Its still a criminal act. Regardless of what Sony did, it does not give anyone the right hack them.

If you light your cheating ex's car on fire, you will be arrested for Arson.

I agree with you in some respects, but rebellions against governments are technically illegal. Yet people who have openly rebelled have made create changes for countries across the globe. For a very simple example, look at America. We're no longer a colony, thanks to rebellion of some nature. It is VERY hard to create a change in this world with non-violent means. People that are non-violent get trampled and brushed under the rug.

While my example was a bit extreme, it is the same concept. Consumers rebelling against companies that have completely unreasonable ToS. If I wanted to lease a game system, I'd buy a damn PC (Which I already have.) Dictating what I do with my physical property is not only absurd, but is in violation of consumer rights. These companies need to take a step back. If they REALLY think they're leasing you a console, put it that way at the point of sale. Consoles are the only example I can think of where you buy something and are dictated to use it as instructed, aside from software (Different case entirely.)

To be clear, I'm obviously referencing the PS3 here. Between my PS3 and the games I've bought I've spent well over 3 grand. I just get pissed when I company I support so much treats me like a criminal.

Ya, your example is a tad bit in the extreme, especially since those who openly rebelled through force and violence were a terrorist group. If you look through most of the early Revolutionary period, you'll find a lot of boycotts, a lot of home made goods and a lot of plans made in an attempt to get more power in parliament. Much of the violence (such as taring and feathering and the Boston Tea Party) were done by the Sons of Liberty. Even when the British mobilized troops at Lexington and Concord, we're still not 100% sure if we even fired first.

In short, ya, there were some people who went against the British parliament, (Even then there is a big difference between losing the ability to run Linux and being forced to house British soldiers while paying large sums of taxes to pay off the debt of a way you fought in.),but there are a lot of people who protested peacefully. There are plenty of better, legal ways to try and convince Sony. Boycotting, petitions and protests are some of the ways. And I guarantee you that with enough backing, those methods would be more effective then hacking the network.

 

[Bat Vader]

Honestly I'm rooting for lulzsec. They are willing to show these people how poorly these companies defend themselves, which is needed.

I don't agree with how they are going about it. Innocent people are having their information posted online. If they want to show these companies how to defend against hacking better that is one thing but they should not be posting the information of innocent people online.

But doesn't their ability to simply snatch info from servers as easily as they did show how irresponsibly corporations treat their customers? These hackers have reinforced the idea that companies don't give two shits about your personal information.

Neither do these hackers. If these hackers really cared about protecting the personal information of people they would not be stealing it and posting it online.

I never said they cared. Whether or not they cared is irrelevant.What they're doing is show how these companies treat their customers.

How is it irrelevant? If these hackers care about showing people how these companies treat their customers. Why are these hackers treating the customers just as bad if not worse? Posting personal information of people online is wrong in my opinion.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

I never said they cared. Whether or not they cared is irrelevant.What they're doing is show how these companies treat their customers.

How is it irrelevant? If these hackers care about showing people how these companies treat their customers. Why are these hackers treating the customers just as bad if not worse? Posting personal information of people online is wrong in my opinion.[/quote]

Whether or not they're doing it for their own personal gain is irrelevant. They've exposed just how worthless companies like Sony and Nintendo treat their customers as. To be perfectly honest, I believe this is a good thing. At the very least, people will now think twice before sharing their personal information online.

 

[Seraj]

Yay! finally, now maybe they'll understand the downside to being in the spotlight.

 

[TheYellowCellPhone]

I'm not calling curtains on this. If this guy was a member of Lulzsec, how would he give the information of others to the FBI? I bet you none of them gave each other personal information because of this.

 

[GrimHeaper]

I think we should all note that, this guy is simply been charged. He is innocent before PROVEN guilty in a court of law. We can't just go around assuming everyone the government locks up is automatically guilty.

They seem to not get that it's wrong.

 

[rapidoud]

But doesn't their ability to simply snatch info from servers as easily as they did show how irresponsibly corporations treat their customers? These hackers have reinforced the idea that companies don't give two shits about your personal information.

Even if Sony has the most secure system across the 3 main console developers, you'll still say this?

Even if someone steals the Mona Lisa from de Louvre you'll still call it insecure and not giving 2 shits about da Vinci?

Zzz... some days.

 

[Ickorus]

Im sick of the hackers and the people defending the hackers, im just sick of all this bullshit.

How can you even begin to defend a bunch of self-centered egotistical asshats who's only goal in life is to bring misery to others for their own amusement, don't you fuckers even realise how many people are affected by these tossers hacking Sony and other corporations? Sony isn't one big self-aware lump, it's made up of thousands upon thousands of good, hard-working men and women and all these hacker groups are doing is risking the livelihoods of these people for their own amusement.

There is no greater good in what they are doing, only cruelty and selfishness.

 

[Vykrel]

Honestly I'm rooting for lulzsec. They are willing to show these people how poorly these companies defend themselves, which is needed.

in doing that, they are ruining if for ALL PSN users. they took millions of peoples' favorite hobby away from them for an entire month, and theyre still screwing with those people.

Sony may be the target, but the gamers are the real victims

 

[LandoCristo]

A company is supposed to protect that info... It's still partly Sony's fault don't give that "but anyone can be hacked" excuse if that was truly true why have defenses at all.

Any company can be hacked though.

Did you know that most cyber crime of this nature goes unreported? Companies get cracked all the time and they pay the crackers money for them to go away, it's a blackmail operation mostly and you'd be shocked if you knew how many companies get targeted.

http://www.edmontonsun.com/2011/06/06/many-cyber-attacks-go-unreported

That's a rather nice magazine piece. I've been taught all this because our tutors think that network security is going to be our main concern when we enter the workplace.

Now Sony's case is particularly problematic because the criminals are doing it for fun, most crackers do a cost/benefit analysis and if the company can't/won't pay, is too ahrd to crack or the information isn't worth taking they won't do it. Lulzsec are doing it for fun. No matter how hard it is, no matter how much it costs and no matter how worthless what they take is they'll do it because they're doing it for a laugh, there is no way to dissuade them.

Imagine a criminal wants to nick your laptop: they'll look at the sale value of it, how tight your home security is and how likely it is they can sell it quick.

Now imagine that criminal wants your laptop no matter what the cost. Alarms won't stop him, he doesn't need to resell it and he doesn't care how much time he spends stealing it as long as he gets it. unlike the practically minded criminal committing the crime is the end-game, no further considerations will temper their desire to commit it because they just want to do it.

Network security is like burglar alarms and barbed wire; it acts as a deterrent for almost every criminal because it makes the job ridiculously difficult and there are always easier places to break in to for the same reward. BUT if someone decides they want to break in anyway those things are NOT going to stop them!

Nice analogy. I'm tired of people blaming Sony's weak defenses for the hack, and not that fact that there is nothing that is completely un-hackable.

 

[Pendragon9]

I hate how everyone is rooting for Lulzsec. He and Geohot are scum who deserve anything the courts throw at them.

"HUR DUR SONY IS BEING EVIL AND GREEDY SO WE'RE GONNA BE EVIL AND GREEDY RIGHT BACK LULZ EPIC WIN XDXDXD"

 

[ejb626]

LulzSec is such an asinine name.

I don't know what to think of these guys. I don't agree with their methods. Even if their motives are honest they're going about it in a stupid way. That stupid meme/4 chan way of speaking pisses me off too.

To be honest I'd be happy if these guys were brought down. Not because I dislike them to any great degree but because they seem far too arrogant for their own good and a hefty backhand slap across the face would be in their best interests.

I've got to say - showing companies that their security isn't up to scratch is a positive. Doing it by stealing customer information? Not cool. How about stealing something that doesn't turn both the company and its customers into the victims?

This, this is why I hate Lulzsec with a passion. There are plenty of hacker collectives like Anon. But when Anon makes an attack you don't see them flaunting it like a Halo teabagger these guys are so god damn cocky it pisses me off. I hope that the FBI really did get the right guy and Lulzsec are just attempting to keep up the cocky act to make people think they're untouchable.

 

[Dirzzit]

For once, the FBI does something... WHEN IT IS NOT AT ALL A THREAT TO NATIONAL SECURITY. STOP focusing on petty hackers who spend their time hacking SONY of all companies, and START actually LOOKING for AL QUEIDA, who want to KILL US.

Yes, because they can only do one thing at a time. -_-