Looks like LulzSec is in trouble

[MaoExE]

Sorry, I really tried to read the entire topic but I just couldn't. Everyone does realize LulzSec aren't the people who hacked PSN? Sony has more than one entity within itself. So with that fresh bit of insight. Can this conversation go in a intellectual direction now?

Thanks

 

[BiscuitTrouser]

Sony never did anything illegal. All they did was remove a people many people didn't use, and most of the ones who did abused.

It's quite depressing how little Sony was punished for flat out lying. Legal precedent (or lack thereof) is quite dangerous. Private companies already wield considerble legal power; they can simply bleed claims dry with protracted claims/cases.

Though as I understand it, Sony actually was fined in Norway and Canada for breaking Advertising laws over the Removal of the Other OS.

In short: Sony should be held to their promises. They made their bed, they should lay in it, rather than just stepping on the faces of their customers to get what they want.

And lulzsec hacking PSN and taking it down for MILLIONS of people ISNT treading in the faces of consumers to get what they want? RIIIIIIIGGGGHHHHHT.

I like the fact they are hurting sony, who show such little regard for their customer that they dont even accept we own the things we buy. However hurting innocent users on the way is just... poor. Im not going to spout a poor metaphor about killing people to achieve peace, but its still a dick move.

 

[Awexsome]

-snip-

I'm not going to claim vast knowledge on how the hackers did it but I am going to claim that the security firms, Sony's network engineers and the hacking groups dedicated to this kind of illegal activity know more about it that you or anyone else does.

At this point in the story it really is black and white though. Sony has not been throwing blame around and has been fully invested in upgrading its security and trying to win its customers trust back for quite some time now and I've never seen them throwing blame around at all even when the story first broke. They were just investigating to find out who did it, sure, but their main focus and message was to get their own shit together. But when it comes to Lulz-sec by the time they created themselves they were the bad guys.

They made it their goal after the first intrusion and after compromising everyone's security info to keep going at Sony. I'll admit to grey in the Geohotz case but Lulz-sec is nothing better than criminals.

And the Geohotz case? It was too much about just removing the OS and not enough WHY they removed the OS. It's been a while but I know that the jailbreak's big controversy was swinging the doors wide open to pirates but that's a discussion for another thread.

 

[Denariax]

To the guy above:

Read the guy above you. Lulzsec didn't take it down. Sony took it down to fix REBUG.

 

[Awexsome]

-snip for broken quote box-

I don't blame the victim of crimes. It's like the "she was asking for it" defense of raping someone.

IMO the whole thought process of "Sony and their customers deserved this and brought it upon them" is just disgusting.

These. People. Are. Criminals. They look to exploit weaknesses they find in society with means that are harmful to everyone. Sony was slacking people say? Ok then. YOU develop a foolproof security system that could resist the concerted efforts of some of the dedicated criminals trying to get past it. It's not a bunch of 8 year olds guessing passwords here. The thing that people like to spread to hurt Sony's image is that these hackers could be blocked by anyone else and that they could do what they did with some Google research. Utter bullshit.

This is the face (or lack thereof) of organized crime in our day and age. Old pirates on the high seas, the Mafia... the only way this group ends up not in their ranks is that they can't kill anyone directly with their means. They are trying with all their might to ruin many peoples' lives though and for that they should all be imprisoned.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS AT ALL WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THIS WAY

Why can't Lulzsack or whatever be a bunch of douche bags AND Sony? Why does the blame lie on one or the other?

Fact: Taking people's private information is wrong. This is what Lulz did.

Fact: Sony should have MUCH better security systems. This is not debatable. Someone in an earlier thread said Sony has been hacked some 16 times.

Therefore: Lulzdudes are assholes. AND PS3 HAS NO GAMES LOL

No, but seriously, Sony sucks too.

Also: comparing Sony to a rape victim is ridiculous. Sony has been attacked due to their incompetence. That is not analogous to a rape victim.

At this point all Lulz-sec is doing it kicking down Sony's door as they try to rebuild it.

And yes, the rape analogy fits. A crime was committed because the criminals felt some kind of unfitting justification for their actions.

 

[CommanderKirov]

Am I the only person worried that the FBI could have caught a person not involved in the hacking but just socializing with the group?

I mean, if he honstly is not responsible for teh hackings I imagine they would knew. They are a goverment agency with quite a large funding...

So my point is, when has it started to be legal to dettain innocent people just to get to their friends/relatives?

 

[Atmos Duality]

And lulzsec hacking PSN and taking it down for MILLIONS of people ISNT treading in the faces of consumers to get what they want? RIIIIIIIGGGGHHHHHT.

I like the fact they are hurting sony, who show such little regard for their customer that they dont even accept we own the things we buy. However hurting innocent users on the way is just... poor. Im not going to spout a poor metaphor about killing people to achieve peace, but its still a dick move.

As far as I'm concerned, Sony has its own list of shit to answer for. But I certainly did NOT want them to be hacked in retaliation.
Because guess who is ultimately going to suffer the consequences of that: More than anyone else, the consumers.
If Sony has their way, consumers lose out to business. They lose rights in exchange for their information and consent of ownership. This opens the door for some truly outrageous bullshit, and it will all be legal.

And yet, if the hackers have their way, the consumers still lose out down the road.
I don't want yet more laws that take away my privacy or place more of my personal information at risk. These assholes already trade and sell my personal information for profit (of which I don't see a dime of, and it just leads to yet more advertisements I don't want or care for), or place me into unilateral contracts with non-negotiable terms. Especially not to just play a fucking VIDEO GAME.

My original beef with that quoted exchange was that Sony DID do something that was blatantly illegal (False Advertising). I didn't mean to imply that Sony deserved the hacking they received as a result (whether it was in retaliation or not); that's another undesirable consequence!

Nothing good is going to come of this regardless.

 

[manaman]

-snip-

I'm not going to claim vast knowledge on how the hackers did it but I am going to claim that the security firms, Sony's network engineers and the hacking groups dedicated to this kind of illegal activity know more about it that you or anyone else does.

At this point in the story it really is black and white though. Sony has not been throwing blame around and has been fully invested in upgrading its security and trying to win its customers trust back for quite some time now and I've never seen them throwing blame around at all even when the story first broke. They were just investigating to find out who did it, sure, but their main focus and message was to get their own shit together. But when it comes to Lulz-sec by the time they created themselves they were the bad guys.

They made it their goal after the first intrusion and after compromising everyone's security info to keep going at Sony. I'll admit to grey in the Geohotz case but Lulz-sec is nothing better than criminals.

And the Geohotz case? It was too much about just removing the OS and not enough WHY they removed the OS. It's been a while but I know that the jailbreak's big controversy was swinging the doors wide open to pirates but that's a discussion for another thread.

I just said I wasn't talking about Geohotz. I could care less about what he did. It has no real relevance to the other issue I have been talking about, the only possible reason you keep bringing it up is because it's something you can make seem related that you can argue against, a strawman if you will.

Sony hasn't been passing the blame? I think we have been reading different news about this. Makes me think your news might be delivered to your email box by Sony, while I have been (possibly unfortunately for me, but not likely) relying on news sites to deliver stories about this fiasco to me.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS AT ALL WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THIS WAY

Why can't Lulzsack or whatever be a bunch of douche bags AND Sony? Why does the blame lie on one or the other?

Fact: Taking people's private information is wrong. This is what Lulz did.

Fact: Sony should have MUCH better security systems. This is not debatable. Someone in an earlier thread said Sony has been hacked some 16 times.

Therefore: Lulzdudes are assholes. AND PS3 HAS NO GAMES LOL

No, but seriously, Sony sucks too.

Also: comparing Sony to a rape victim is ridiculous. Sony has been attacked due to their incompetence. That is not analogous to a rape victim.

It isn't very elegant, but that is exactly what I have been saying to the other quoted poster in this post. Maybe he will get it now. Blame lies on both sides of this. Thanks person I will now know as random poster #23 that agreed with me on one issue.

 

[conflictofinterests]

you wanna watch the FBI and Sony ream guys in the ass?

Totally. They deserve every minute of jailtime they get over it.

Why? Cause you couldn't play Socom for a couple days?

Didn't Sony sell PS3 touting their capability to run multiple operating systems (i.e. Linux) and then go back on that by removing functions and punishing it's users until they updated their PS3's to remove the capability to run other OS's?

Sounds like Sony should be punished....oh wait

More people are pissed off about the "millions of people put at risk for identity theft" thing rather than not being able to play games.
Regardless of what Sony did, when it affects that many people in that way, I think we're justified in thinking these guys deserve a harsh punishment.

Were they the ones who did the initial hacking? The one that brought down the PSN for a month or so? Or were they just the guys who hacked it after everything was pretty much back up and running to illustrate that Sony was (still) gambling with its users' personal information (granted that they did also steal said information and that's deserving of punishment too)? Because one of those deserves a harsher punishment than the other... I honestly don't know which applies, though x_x

 

[Atheist.]

you wanna watch the FBI and Sony ream guys in the ass?

Totally. They deserve every minute of jailtime they get over it.

Why? Cause you couldn't play Socom for a couple days?

Didn't Sony sell PS3 touting their capability to run multiple operating systems (i.e. Linux) and then go back on that by removing functions and punishing it's users until they updated their PS3's to remove the capability to run other OS's?

Sounds like Sony should be punished....oh wait

Its still a criminal act. Regardless of what Sony did, it does not give anyone the right hack them.

If you light your cheating ex's car on fire, you will be arrested for Arson.

I agree with you in some respects, but rebellions against governments are technically illegal. Yet people who have openly rebelled have made create changes for countries across the globe. For a very simple example, look at America. We're no longer a colony, thanks to rebellion of some nature. It is VERY hard to create a change in this world with non-violent means. People that are non-violent get trampled and brushed under the rug.

While my example was a bit extreme, it is the same concept. Consumers rebelling against companies that have completely unreasonable ToS. If I wanted to lease a game system, I'd buy a damn PC (Which I already have.) Dictating what I do with my physical property is not only absurd, but is in violation of consumer rights. These companies need to take a step back. If they REALLY think they're leasing you a console, put it that way at the point of sale. Consoles are the only example I can think of where you buy something and are dictated to use it as instructed, aside from software (Different case entirely.)

To be clear, I'm obviously referencing the PS3 here. Between my PS3 and the games I've bought I've spent well over 3 grand. I just get pissed when I company I support so much treats me like a criminal.

It's not the hardware they're particularly worried about, I sincerely doubt they care if you mod your console to play ported games. It is the code that you have no right to. They are worried about people having access to their own privately developed and copyrighted code that could easily be stoled and replicated or tweaked. That code is something the consumer has no right to, the didn't make it, it isn't theirs. You're just paying for the use of the finished product, not the rights to the coding.

Assuming you're from the States, that's quite incorrect. Consumers have the right to do whatever they wish with their hardware, according to the DMCA they hide behind (With the exception of pirating.) As long as we do LEGAL mods, we are within our rights. We have the right to explore, and modify the code they sold to us, as long as we don't use it for profit or pirating.

As ironic as it sounds, the very "laws" they hide behind, protect us from being prosecuted for exploring their complex coding.

Not trying to seem like a dick, or even worse, a pirate, but we are currently LEGALLY entitled (In the US at least) to explore whatever code they sell us, as long as we don't violate the previously mentioned clauses. The ToS companies offer are almost impossible to hold up in court, as they are unreasonably binding. I believe there was an article on this site or another reputable one. I'm fairly certain of this last statement, but I don't know it was from this site specifically.

Regardless, these companies are hypocritical in quite a few respects.

If I'm not damaging their sales, I should be able to use their hardware as I wish. Prime example. The 3DS. Seriously? Bricking my console for optimizing it? That's beyond ridiculous, a company should never be able to vandalize your system without coming across legal issues themselves.

 

[Awexsome]

-snip-

I'm not going to claim vast knowledge on how the hackers did it but I am going to claim that the security firms, Sony's network engineers and the hacking groups dedicated to this kind of illegal activity know more about it that you or anyone else does.

At this point in the story it really is black and white though. Sony has not been throwing blame around and has been fully invested in upgrading its security and trying to win its customers trust back for quite some time now and I've never seen them throwing blame around at all even when the story first broke. They were just investigating to find out who did it, sure, but their main focus and message was to get their own shit together. But when it comes to Lulz-sec by the time they created themselves they were the bad guys.

They made it their goal after the first intrusion and after compromising everyone's security info to keep going at Sony. I'll admit to grey in the Geohotz case but Lulz-sec is nothing better than criminals.

And the Geohotz case? It was too much about just removing the OS and not enough WHY they removed the OS. It's been a while but I know that the jailbreak's big controversy was swinging the doors wide open to pirates but that's a discussion for another thread.

I just said I wasn't talking about Geohotz. I could care less about what he did. It has no real relevance to the other issue I have been talking about, the only possible reason you keep bringing it up is because it's something you can make seem related that you can argue against, a strawman if you will.

Sony hasn't been passing the blame? I think we have been reading different news about this. Makes me think your news might be delivered to your email box by Sony, while I have been (possibly unfortunately for me, but not likely) relying on news sites to deliver stories about this fiasco to me.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS AT ALL WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THIS WAY

Why can't Lulzsack or whatever be a bunch of douche bags AND Sony? Why does the blame lie on one or the other?

Fact: Taking people's private information is wrong. This is what Lulz did.

Fact: Sony should have MUCH better security systems. This is not debatable. Someone in an earlier thread said Sony has been hacked some 16 times.

Therefore: Lulzdudes are assholes. AND PS3 HAS NO GAMES LOL

No, but seriously, Sony sucks too.

Also: comparing Sony to a rape victim is ridiculous. Sony has been attacked due to their incompetence. That is not analogous to a rape victim.

It isn't very elegant, but that is exactly what I have been saying to the other quoted poster in this post. Maybe he will get it now. Blame lies on both sides of this. Thanks person I will now know as random poster #23 that agreed with me on one issue.

Your constant accusations of fanboy are getting pretty fucking annoying at this point.

All I remember is one news story here that the investigation led to possible Anon involvement at first. I remember a load of speculation and accusations on forums and the like, but nothing by Sony themselves.

The reason I keep bringing Geo up is how the case started off much differently. Back when the whole thing started with Geo you had the biggest issue being Sony restricting consoles for controversial reasons in an arguably dubious way.

Then came the first intrusion. Again, arguably Sony could've done a better job with it and maybe could have. Even so the large majority of the blame I place on the outlaws who stole and published peoples' information more than Sony for failing to stop it. Something we can agree to disagree on.

Now we have Lulz-sec. A group dedicated at this point to make Sony's life a living hell to prove their point. Endangering Sony and their thousands of innocent employees and millions of customers. Sony is currently focused on trying to gain back their customer's trust by upgrading their security and all the perks they're giving out on the PSN. Sony's eager to put this whole thing behind them, proving that with all the apologies for their share of the blame and the perks to the PSN returners.

I can't see any form of good left in the hackers side at this point. Any action they take further against Sony is just blatantly illegal and does only harm to everyone but themselves and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

 

[Atheist.]

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/technology/lulzsec-member-arrested-group-leaks-sony-database-57296.html

UPDATE 5:05pm PDT: LulzSec says arrested hacker was not part of group.

Also:

Dear Internets,

Herro! Recently some of you may have seen "LulzSec exposed" logs floating around. We'd like the time to say this: LOL. Those logs are primarily from a channel called #pure-elite, which is /not/ the LulzSec core chatting channel. #pure-elite is where we gather potential backup/subcrew research and development battle fleet members, i.e. we were using that channel only to recruit talent for side-operations.

Note that people such as joepie91/Neuron/Storm/trollpoll/voodoo are not involved with LulzSec, they just hang out with us in that channel. Also, "ev0", who was allegedly arrested (?) was never a part of LulzSec or in fact the subcrew. We don't even know who he is.

Despite the fact that we're laughing heartily right now, we do take care of our subcrew, and as such the person who leaked those logs (m_nerva) has been completely hacked inside and out. We have all his online accounts, all his personal information, all the illegal things he's done on record. We destroyed him so hard that he sat there apologizing to us all night on IRC for what he did. His mother probably spanked him after we wrecked his home connection. Uh-oh, m_nerva!

Our core chatting channel remains unaffected. Our core LulzSec team is at full strength. The Lulz Boat sails stronger than ever, nice try though.

TL;DR we are too sexy to be sunk, hacking continues as usual, u mad bros?

http://lulzsecurity.com/
twitter.com/LulzSec

Better luck next time, FBI.

They got close enough, all they need to do is interrogate the one that was caught, and that will lead to the real Lulzsec. All it takes is a little detective work.

I don't know if you have some Hollywood idea of interrogation, but it's nothing like the movies. Interrogations often get nowhere. If he was a real hardcore member of any group, he wouldn't give anyone up. People usually don't fold on their "good friends" in the casual US interrogations. We're not talking terrorist camps, they simply ask questions, and offer fake outs to prisoners. Not a whole lot given for the betrayal of your "comrades."

 

[Hristo Tzonkov]

When are you guys going to understand that neither Lulzsec or Anonymous hack for money?They weren't behind the credit card theft.All Lulzsec did was prove Sony's firewalls were so terribly bad they could hack it without even trying.

 

[Normalgamer]

I just love how unanimous the "fuck hackers, they deserve what they get" sentiment is. Totally consistent with how almost nobody gets upset when mass-murdering terrorists get assassinated or waterboarded.

I guess I really just shouldn't be surprised by how shitty people are anymore.

What? When? Who? Well since your post is a little vague, I'll answer in two different ways.

If you meant people are shitty as in mass-murdering terrorists and the Lulzsec guys, then yes I agree with you, and personally root for when/if they get caught and go to prison for a long time.

If you mean people are shitty for people not being upset when mass-murdering terrorists and douchebags like the guys in Lulzsec are caught , why?

 

[manaman]

-snip-

I'm not going to claim vast knowledge on how the hackers did it but I am going to claim that the security firms, Sony's network engineers and the hacking groups dedicated to this kind of illegal activity know more about it that you or anyone else does.

At this point in the story it really is black and white though. Sony has not been throwing blame around and has been fully invested in upgrading its security and trying to win its customers trust back for quite some time now and I've never seen them throwing blame around at all even when the story first broke. They were just investigating to find out who did it, sure, but their main focus and message was to get their own shit together. But when it comes to Lulz-sec by the time they created themselves they were the bad guys.

They made it their goal after the first intrusion and after compromising everyone's security info to keep going at Sony. I'll admit to grey in the Geohotz case but Lulz-sec is nothing better than criminals.

And the Geohotz case? It was too much about just removing the OS and not enough WHY they removed the OS. It's been a while but I know that the jailbreak's big controversy was swinging the doors wide open to pirates but that's a discussion for another thread.

I just said I wasn't talking about Geohotz. I could care less about what he did. It has no real relevance to the other issue I have been talking about, the only possible reason you keep bringing it up is because it's something you can make seem related that you can argue against, a strawman if you will.

Sony hasn't been passing the blame? I think we have been reading different news about this. Makes me think your news might be delivered to your email box by Sony, while I have been (possibly unfortunately for me, but not likely) relying on news sites to deliver stories about this fiasco to me.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS AT ALL WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THIS WAY

Why can't Lulzsack or whatever be a bunch of douche bags AND Sony? Why does the blame lie on one or the other?

Fact: Taking people's private information is wrong. This is what Lulz did.

Fact: Sony should have MUCH better security systems. This is not debatable. Someone in an earlier thread said Sony has been hacked some 16 times.

Therefore: Lulzdudes are assholes. AND PS3 HAS NO GAMES LOL

No, but seriously, Sony sucks too.

Also: comparing Sony to a rape victim is ridiculous. Sony has been attacked due to their incompetence. That is not analogous to a rape victim.

It isn't very elegant, but that is exactly what I have been saying to the other quoted poster in this post. Maybe he will get it now. Blame lies on both sides of this. Thanks person I will now know as random poster #23 that agreed with me on one issue.

Your constant accusations of fanboy are getting pretty fucking annoying at this point.

All I remember is one news story here that the investigation led to possible Anon involvement at first. I remember a load of speculation and accusations on forums and the like, but nothing by Sony themselves.

The reason I keep bringing Geo up is how the case started off much differently. Back when the whole thing started with Geo you had the biggest issue being Sony restricting consoles for controversial reasons in an arguably dubious way.

Then came the first intrusion. Again, arguably Sony could've done a better job with it and maybe could have. Even so the large majority of the blame I place on the outlaws who stole and published peoples' information more than Sony for failing to stop it. Something we can agree to disagree on.

Now we have Lulz-sec. A group dedicated at this point to make Sony's life a living hell to prove their point. Endangering Sony and their thousands of innocent employees and millions of customers. Sony is currently focused on trying to gain back their customer's trust by upgrading their security and all the perks they're giving out on the PSN. Sony's eager to put this whole thing behind them, proving that with all the apologies for their share of the blame and the perks to the PSN returners.

I can't see any form of good left in the hackers side at this point. Any action they take further against Sony is just blatantly illegal and does only harm to everyone but themselves and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I believe I called into question the sources of your information, stating that they probably came prepackaged with bias. I only stated once that you where a fanboy, so it's hardly a repetative accusation that you can grow fucking tired of.

Which brings me to a question: Why are you even in this discussion?

You admitted earlier to not knowing jack about security. Now you admit to not even following the news about this. I have issue with you stating as fact what is little more then an opinion based on your limited understanding of the topic. Please in the future at least have a passing knowledge of the topic at hand before diving into it head first.

A person punching me in the face doesn't excuse me calling him a bastard and drunkenly hitting on his girlfriend all night, through I won't be spending the night in jail if that is all I did you have to admit at least some of the responsibility for the night is on my shoulders in that scenario.

You also need to stop changing my stance on issues into something you feel you can form an argument again. I have not once excused the actions of the hackers (as you have probably already been told multiple times was not the group you keep accusing) or tried to paint them in a positive light. I claim responsibility lies with both parties. You keep trying to say that an illegal activity excuses all blame from another entity. That's about as untrue as you can get.

 

[Cridhe]

Sorry to say but this story is false. No LulzSec members have been arrested, it's a 4chan grand troll.

 

[manaman]

Assuming you're from the States, that's quite incorrect. Consumers have the right to do whatever they wish with their hardware, according to the DMCA they hide behind (With the exception of pirating.) As long as we do LEGAL mods, we are within our rights. We have the right to explore, and modify the code they sold to us, as long as we don't use it for profit or pirating.

Actually... You don't. Most of the time.

The DMCA (which should be overhauled, as it is far and away biased against fair use doctrine) makes it illegal for you to defeat any copyright scheme, even inadvertently. Which is something you have to do to mod most devices. Hence why you can jailbreak some devices, but can have your pants sued off for messing with others.

 

[Cridhe]

Here is the article that renders the previous posted article a big troll (not the OP I mean).

http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=21832

 

[Nocta-Aeterna]

Honestly I'm rooting for lulzsec. They are willing to show these people how poorly these companies defend themselves, which is needed.

You do know you can hire people to do that legitimately?

A while ago, I went to a lecture on Internet cryptography. The lecturing professor spoke of how he used a programming loophole to falsify Security Certificates to easily create phishing sites, after which the authentification and distribution of Security Certificates were reworked.

 

[manaman]

-snip-

I'm not going to claim vast knowledge on how the hackers did it but I am going to claim that the security firms, Sony's network engineers and the hacking groups dedicated to this kind of illegal activity know more about it that you or anyone else does.

At this point in the story it really is black and white though. Sony has not been throwing blame around and has been fully invested in upgrading its security and trying to win its customers trust back for quite some time now and I've never seen them throwing blame around at all even when the story first broke. They were just investigating to find out who did it, sure, but their main focus and message was to get their own shit together. But when it comes to Lulz-sec by the time they created themselves they were the bad guys.

They made it their goal after the first intrusion and after compromising everyone's security info to keep going at Sony. I'll admit to grey in the Geohotz case but Lulz-sec is nothing better than criminals.

And the Geohotz case? It was too much about just removing the OS and not enough WHY they removed the OS. It's been a while but I know that the jailbreak's big controversy was swinging the doors wide open to pirates but that's a discussion for another thread.

I just said I wasn't talking about Geohotz. I could care less about what he did. It has no real relevance to the other issue I have been talking about, the only possible reason you keep bringing it up is because it's something you can make seem related that you can argue against, a strawman if you will.

Sony hasn't been passing the blame? I think we have been reading different news about this. Makes me think your news might be delivered to your email box by Sony, while I have been (possibly unfortunately for me, but not likely) relying on news sites to deliver stories about this fiasco to me.

I DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS AT ALL WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THIS WAY

Why can't Lulzsack or whatever be a bunch of douche bags AND Sony? Why does the blame lie on one or the other?

Fact: Taking people's private information is wrong. This is what Lulz did.

Fact: Sony should have MUCH better security systems. This is not debatable. Someone in an earlier thread said Sony has been hacked some 16 times.

Therefore: Lulzdudes are assholes. AND PS3 HAS NO GAMES LOL

No, but seriously, Sony sucks too.

Also: comparing Sony to a rape victim is ridiculous. Sony has been attacked due to their incompetence. That is not analogous to a rape victim.

It isn't very elegant, but that is exactly what I have been saying to the other quoted poster in this post. Maybe he will get it now. Blame lies on both sides of this. Thanks person I will now know as random poster #23 that agreed with me on one issue.

Your constant accusations of fanboy are getting pretty fucking annoying at this point.

All I remember is one news story here that the investigation led to possible Anon involvement at first. I remember a load of speculation and accusations on forums and the like, but nothing by Sony themselves.

The reason I keep bringing Geo up is how the case started off much differently. Back when the whole thing started with Geo you had the biggest issue being Sony restricting consoles for controversial reasons in an arguably dubious way.

Then came the first intrusion. Again, arguably Sony could've done a better job with it and maybe could have. Even so the large majority of the blame I place on the outlaws who stole and published peoples' information more than Sony for failing to stop it. Something we can agree to disagree on.

Now we have Lulz-sec. A group dedicated at this point to make Sony's life a living hell to prove their point. Endangering Sony and their thousands of innocent employees and millions of customers. Sony is currently focused on trying to gain back their customer's trust by upgrading their security and all the perks they're giving out on the PSN. Sony's eager to put this whole thing behind them, proving that with all the apologies for their share of the blame and the perks to the PSN returners.

I can't see any form of good left in the hackers side at this point. Any action they take further against Sony is just blatantly illegal and does only harm to everyone but themselves and should be punished to the full extent of the law.

I believe I called into question the sources of your information, stating that they probably came prepackaged with bias. I only stated once that you where a fanboy, so it's hardly a repetative accusation that you can grow fucking tired of.

Which brings me to a question: Why are you even in this discussion?

You admitted earlier to not knowing jack about security. Now you admit to not even following the news about this. I have issue with you stating as fact what is little more then an opinion based on your limited understanding of the topic. Please in the future at least have a passing knowledge of the topic at hand before diving into it head first.

A person punching me in the face doesn't excuse me calling him a bastard and drunkenly hitting on his girlfriend all night, through I won't be spending the night in jail if that is all I did you have to admit at least some of the responsibility for the night is on my shoulders in that scenario.

You also need to stop changing my stance on issues into something you feel you can form an argument again. I have not once excused the actions of the hackers (as you have probably already been told multiple times was not the group you keep accusing) or tried to paint them in a positive light. I claim responsibility lies with both parties. You keep trying to say that an illegal activity excuses all blame from another entity. That's about as untrue as you can get.

Yeah ok. Let me first say I don't fucking like you or your pretentiousness at this point.

Now at this point let me sum myself up so you don't have to fucking insult my knowledge on anything anymore.

The whole thing started off with the case. Myself thinking Sony was in the full right to restrict the use of the OS and was in no way illegal and at worst just a dick move but it was defenitly a grey area case. Both sides had good points.

Sony gets hacked first time. You put blame on both sides, I put it mostly on one side, but acknowledge that Sony still has blame on them.

Lulz-sec starts up. Sony is now forced to undergo constant threats to their security because the hackers want to prove their point. Endangering the company, the employees, and their customers. Lulz-sec are the bad guys. Sony are now the good guys.

I'm not being pretentious. I have not made a great show of my own worth. I have not tried to deceive you into believing I am an expert where I am not (really I have only claimed you are not informed enough). I could be considered condescending at worst (should you decide to take the post that way).

You probably should be asking yourself the same questions I asked. To think that maybe you don't know enough about the issue you are debating to form valid points. That it wouldn't hurt to go read up on the subject before you let your fingers engage your fury.

You seem a little frustrated right now. Which is probably the worst time to be posting in these here forums. I highly suggest that you settle things for the night and return to this with a clean frame of mind in the morning (or later in the day depending on where in the world you live).