Male Protagonists
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
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An interesting topic.
People seem to want a protagonist who is either relatable or admirable. Unfortunately, what is relatable or admirable differs from person to person and worse, they seem to have forgotten all about the relatable part most of the time. Also unfortunately, the industry seems to have taken 'admirable' to mean extremely sexualised (macho men, effeminate teens, voluptuous women,) callous and deadly.
There are very few games out there which allow you to play as a relatively normal person thrust into circumstances that force them to become something different. Those games do stand out, such as the Fallout series, which I personally find far more involving. Most games go for simple character archetypes, which is great for admirability and/or style, horrible for relatability and/or immersion.
On the other hand though, it really does depend upon the game. If I'm playing the game equivalent of Commando (the old Arnie film) it would only make sense to play as a human hamburger. If a game has any pretense of any depth of plot however, all your Master Chiefs and so on tend to hinder rather than help the experience.
Though I guess at the end of the day, if a character isn't at all relatable, they might as well be good to look at. More effeminate males and muscular females please... that's how this Geordie lad rolls. z: )
Finally, I particularly sympathise with the comments regarding equipment and attire. Ridiculous costumes and weapons are fun in their own way, but there just aren't enough games that go the sensible route. I'm afraid I have to lump the main character from the first Assassin's Creed in here... it did kind of bug me that you were playing a stealthy assassin whose every slightest movement was accompanied by the creak of leather and the jingle of sharp shiny metal.
HERE'S THE BIT I HOPE YAHTZEE CASTS HIS EYES UPON:
I fully support Space Game the Game. Speaking as a disabused space-sim player (my freaking joystick has gathered freaking dust) I'd love to see even one more decent game come out, though I hope you will look after the fluff. The sci-fi technical fluff is important you know.
Stuff quickly freezing really isn't all that likely to happen in space. Space is a vacuum. There's nothing to conduct the heat away. In fact, by all accounts, one of the biggest forseeable problems with spaceship construction is preventing the damn thing from overheating. Not that this is a big problem for the system proposed - you just make mention that the cooling system is f**ked and is always on full blast.
I just hope you mention something like that. Otherwise you'll have a bajillion geeks squealing at you with the voices of tortured rats. In your soul at night.
People seem to want a protagonist who is either relatable or admirable. Unfortunately, what is relatable or admirable differs from person to person and worse, they seem to have forgotten all about the relatable part most of the time. Also unfortunately, the industry seems to have taken 'admirable' to mean extremely sexualised (macho men, effeminate teens, voluptuous women,) callous and deadly.
There are very few games out there which allow you to play as a relatively normal person thrust into circumstances that force them to become something different. Those games do stand out, such as the Fallout series, which I personally find far more involving. Most games go for simple character archetypes, which is great for admirability and/or style, horrible for relatability and/or immersion.
On the other hand though, it really does depend upon the game. If I'm playing the game equivalent of Commando (the old Arnie film) it would only make sense to play as a human hamburger. If a game has any pretense of any depth of plot however, all your Master Chiefs and so on tend to hinder rather than help the experience.
Though I guess at the end of the day, if a character isn't at all relatable, they might as well be good to look at. More effeminate males and muscular females please... that's how this Geordie lad rolls. z: )
Finally, I particularly sympathise with the comments regarding equipment and attire. Ridiculous costumes and weapons are fun in their own way, but there just aren't enough games that go the sensible route. I'm afraid I have to lump the main character from the first Assassin's Creed in here... it did kind of bug me that you were playing a stealthy assassin whose every slightest movement was accompanied by the creak of leather and the jingle of sharp shiny metal.
HERE'S THE BIT I HOPE YAHTZEE CASTS HIS EYES UPON:
I fully support Space Game the Game. Speaking as a disabused space-sim player (my freaking joystick has gathered freaking dust) I'd love to see even one more decent game come out, though I hope you will look after the fluff. The sci-fi technical fluff is important you know.
Stuff quickly freezing really isn't all that likely to happen in space. Space is a vacuum. There's nothing to conduct the heat away. In fact, by all accounts, one of the biggest forseeable problems with spaceship construction is preventing the damn thing from overheating. Not that this is a big problem for the system proposed - you just make mention that the cooling system is f**ked and is always on full blast.
I just hope you mention something like that. Otherwise you'll have a bajillion geeks squealing at you with the voices of tortured rats. In your soul at night.
Yahtzee's right. However, I'd like to point out that there's a difference between making a character relatable, and realistic.
I'll illustrate with Gears of War. Marcus Fenix was raised in a dictatorship during wartime and after years of service was rewarded by being sent to prison for saving a loved one. Then after being intentionally abandoned there after all other prisoners were pardoned is let out to save the people who put him in there in the first place. By the way said relative is dead now so he did all that for nothing. Said protagonist is now openly resentful towards the leadership and mostly indifferent to everyone else. I had a math teacher that was a Paratrooper in Vietnam who was similarly shouty and cross in a similar way.
Don't get me started on Kratos.
Relatable? No. Realistic characterization? Yea. Pretty much.
I'll illustrate with Gears of War. Marcus Fenix was raised in a dictatorship during wartime and after years of service was rewarded by being sent to prison for saving a loved one. Then after being intentionally abandoned there after all other prisoners were pardoned is let out to save the people who put him in there in the first place. By the way said relative is dead now so he did all that for nothing. Said protagonist is now openly resentful towards the leadership and mostly indifferent to everyone else. I had a math teacher that was a Paratrooper in Vietnam who was similarly shouty and cross in a similar way.
Don't get me started on Kratos.
Relatable? No. Realistic characterization? Yea. Pretty much.
I'm probably the minority but I prefer option C: the unrealistic female lead.
Sure it's unfeminine to kill loads of people without remorse and rip people's arms off without breaking a sweat, but it seems refreshing in a genre dominated by aforementioned men.
And of course as the gamer we get to admire their backside for 10 hours or whatever the going length is these days [much longer in FF13's case].
Sure it's unfeminine to kill loads of people without remorse and rip people's arms off without breaking a sweat, but it seems refreshing in a genre dominated by aforementioned men.
And of course as the gamer we get to admire their backside for 10 hours or whatever the going length is these days [much longer in FF13's case].
So, is this because you're feeling insecure as a man and now you're taking it out on perfectly entertaining video game characters?
That's the only point I could see to this article.
That's the only point I could see to this article.
I like where Space Game is going, with having the engine start to freeze and all. Action/Reaction: the ultimate balancing agent. Not enough games are actually balanced (in fact, almost no games are actually balanced); designers just throw hit-points at the problem until it feels right. Things need to have consequences that have real trade-offs, so that you're making an actual choice, rather than a calculation.
It's very cold, just above absolute zero, but being a vacuum theres no convection so things in space take a long time to cool down. Keeping cold is a bigger problem in space travel than keeping hot.Yer man o said:
An excellent article! Coudln't say it better m'self. Gaming could certainly go with more manly men (or women) and less macho-men. Hell, I'd take a silent protagonist like Gordon or Nameless Black Man (would have a name aside from "rookie" really have been all that hard, Rebellion?) from the new AvP over Fenix or such.
As to Batman; all over the place. He changes so much depending on who writes him.
Macho-men are acceptable in certain settings as with Kratos - the game's very much aware of his flaws, as he's a Greek Hero and Greek Myth is very much about murder machines who are deeply flawed in oh so many ways. Hercules or Ulysses, for instance - one killed his family in a blind rage, the other's hubris got all his soldiers killed in a variety of horrible ways and made his wife wait twenty years for his return.Anchupom said:
As to Batman; all over the place. He changes so much depending on who writes him.
I am reminded of an essay by James Ernest where he compared game design to carving a statue of a horse out of a block of marble by adding clay to it.
Love the article Yahtzee. I was so disgusted by the Prince's character in Warrior Within (not to mention the dreadful voice acting and stripperiffic female characters) that I couldn't even bring myself to finish it. Loved The Two Thrones though.
Manly or Macho?
Personally, i would have to say *****. I've never had fights with mythological gods and/or creatures whilst wielding MEGA swords.
More pity me.
Personally, i would have to say *****. I've never had fights with mythological gods and/or creatures whilst wielding MEGA swords.
More pity me.
Many video games really fail to demonstrate any kind of depth in their characters, male or female. Because of the pacing in games, it's rare to see a character outside of some kind of action-oriented mindset, and so often the characterization falls to the few emotions demonstrated while operating a flame thrower. Which is honestly preferable to games that shoehorn emotional content into the dialogue where it ought not to be. It's also kind of rare to have the soulless creatures of the uncanny valley convincingly show real emotion.
macho characters have their place in games indeed, but the problem comes when they are the only characters in said game. gears of war was a classic example of this, all the characters are exactly the same with no effort to create individuals beyond the one or two issues used to define them (Dom and his wife, carmine being green).
the biggest thing which defines the difference between macho and manly characters for me is that macho characters have very little skill in anylising the deeper issues involved with their situation, they follow orders and they do it blankly. they approach any situation with bravado and testosterone and that's it.
the manly characters i have identified with in games tend to be much deeper developed and much more aware of their place in the world. John Marston is the perfect example of this, he finds himself in the middle of a number of highly political situations, initially he attempts to sidestep any political debate but when the action moves into Mexico he cannot help but form his opinions about the issues at hand and comment on them.
the biggest thing which defines the difference between macho and manly characters for me is that macho characters have very little skill in anylising the deeper issues involved with their situation, they follow orders and they do it blankly. they approach any situation with bravado and testosterone and that's it.
the manly characters i have identified with in games tend to be much deeper developed and much more aware of their place in the world. John Marston is the perfect example of this, he finds himself in the middle of a number of highly political situations, initially he attempts to sidestep any political debate but when the action moves into Mexico he cannot help but form his opinions about the issues at hand and comment on them.
