Man May Face 10 Years in Prison for Modding an Xbox

[JDKJ]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the hardware, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

And he doesn't have any. He is doing it to let people pirate games.

not only that he has made money off of breaking their system, thats all kinds of wrong. Now ten years is a bit harsh but it will scare off modders a bit.

A bit hard?

Have you ever jay-walked? What kind of sentence do you think you deserve for that?

He didn't directly hurt anyone. He was supported by consumers. This is a copyright law case. How can anyone really be such a lapdog as to put this man's entire life going down the drain over a few lost dollars to a huge corporation as 'a bit harsh'.

i jay walk all the time we don't get arrested for that here
but yes its totally fine to prosecute him for being a thieving bastard. He is allowing people to bypass the purchase of videogames losing money for the production teams. And getting paid for it. Let him rot i say.

He didn't steal anything. He allowed people to gain the ability to run software from other 'production teams' who stole from Microsoft. There are legitimate applications of modding. What do you think should be the arbitrary sentencing of a murderer?

Are you both aware that there's little to no possibility that this first-time offender will actually spend a day in a federal prison? Ten years is the maximum custodial sentence allowed by law. This kid's not gonna get a ten-year sentence if convicted on all charges. More like a year or two of probation. He's a young, middle-class, white kid caught modding consoles. Not a young, lower-class, black kid caught selling crack.

A two year probation would be fairer, but the fact that this could probably stop him being gainfully empolyed sickens me.

I have a feeling that the folks down at the car park where this kid's employed won't care too much if he picks up a stretch on probation.

Where did you get the Car Park thing from, are you being humorous?

This sets a precedent, its not important what this kids future looks like.

I'm like the umpire at the baseball game. I don't make the plays up, I just call them the way I see them:

"The government maintains Crippen, a hotel car-parking manager, ran a small business from his Anaheim home modifying the firmware on Xbox 360 optical drives to make them capable of running pirated copies of games."

Source: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/12/judge-in-xbox-modding-trial-berates-prosecution-halts-trial.ars

 

[JDKJ]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the system, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

He's not allowed to do what he wants with it. Sure, he bought the console but not the rights to the technology within it. Say, you bought a CD. You own the CD but NOT the rights to the music on that CD
Modding a consoles innner workings is absolutely wrong no matter what way you look at it

Modding a console isn't "absolutely" wrong in all circumstances. There are some narrow circumstances that are exempted from the general rule that console-modding is illegal. If you're really interested, the relevant law is:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html#1201

 

[JDKJ]

10 years is super harsh...but people, it's not 10 years for modding AN x-box, as the completely sensationalist news title would have one believe. It's 10 years for running an illegal business based on theft and piracy (yeah yeah, you can use it for homebrew games and legal stuff...but bullshit...show me one person who has a modded x-box who doesn't pirate games).

Still, that being said, 10 years is a really long time, and to have that taken away from you because of something that really doesn't hurt anybody (most people who pirate games probably wouldn't have bought them in the first place) is pretty ridiculous.

That's not true. The kid is facing the possibility of a 10-year prison sentence for modding (two counts of modding, each carrying a 5-year maximum prison sentence). See the penalties in the anti-modding law linked below:

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap12.html#1201

As a practical matter, he won't actually get ten years in prison if convicted on both counts. But, as a legal matter, he can.

 

[superbatranger]

He gets 10 years, and rapists and dog killers get 5 years? The juridical system is fucked.

Yes, thank you! The system is truly fucked. I could probably commit manslaughter right now and only get half the time he'd get.

 

[Molander]

Apparently there are no real justice in this world, just because Microsoft thinks that it's still their hardware you're supposed to get sky-high punishments?

 

[JDKJ]

Apparently there are no real justice in this world, just because Microsoft thinks that it's still their hardware you're supposed to get sky-high punishments?

It has nothing to do with what Microsoft thinks or doesn't think. It has everything to do with what Congress thought when it passed the DMCA.

 

[BRex21]

What bothers me about this, is how hard the prosecution worked on their case, including violating privacy laws in the state in order to enforce a law which does nothing to protect the safety of people. Hell if this guy was a murderer he could probably get the case thrown out, but when you throw a corporate interest into this thing they ARE willing to go that much farther. I also hate that as a consumer i have no protection from DRM. They put software on my DVD of Iron Man to prevent it from playing in my DVD player because its an off brand they didn't recognize, and when I bought new Vegas, my copy and every other copy in the store had a lovely sticker over Steam requirement, a sticker that by removing you are accepting the agreement.
Im not saying that what this man did was right, in fact I would think a civil suit to take the money he made from his little business would be fully justified. I just think that we might be a little more sympathetic of these companies if they had the slightest bit of ethics.

 

[Molander]

Well I don't exactly think Microsoft approves of modding of the console which is against the user license agreement... :/

 

[mindlesspuppet]

He's not allowed to do what he wants with it. Sure, he bought the console but not the rights to the technology within it. Say, you bought a CD. You own the CD but NOT the rights to the music on that CD
Modding a consoles innner workings is absolutely wrong no matter what way you look at it

No, again, it's not. Comparing it to a CD is pointless, a CD contains music which is an artistic work and therefore can be copyrighted. Hardware cannot be copyright, it can be patented, there's a pretty big difference. Plenty of people have replaced the stock cooling in their 360s, according to you, this would be illegal.

Well, if you really want to know...

Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute, or use for other purposes the Service, any game, application, or other content available or accessible through the Service, or any hardware or software associated with the Service or with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console is strictly prohibited and may result in cancellation of your account and/or your ability to access the Service, and the pursuit of other legal remedies by Microsoft.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/legal/livetou

And don't ask for my opinion about this. I don't want to start (or take part in) a huge argument that I don't know much about.

Terms of Service != Law.

Under Section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, the circumvention of copy control and access control mechanisms is illegal, with only a few narrow statutory exemptions and generally regardless of the underlying reason for the circumvention.

And it doesn't look from the public cock-slapping the Judge administered to the prosecution on opening day that he's half as inept as you think he is. Looks to me as if he knows more than a little bit about what's happening in his courtroom. But I'm willing to bet that the poor AUSA who got cock-slapped wishes the Judge was as inept as you think he is.

I read over that section last night, briefed over it again today. As I said earlier, it doesn't seem like there's too much that can relate to this case. That may be a simply be because it's overly vague at points and specific in others though.

As for the judge, if he had somehow demonstrated any sort of technical prowess in his "cock slapping" I might be inclined to agree. It seems more like the judge got baited.

 

[JDKJ]

Well I don't exactly think Microsoft approves of modding of the console which is against the user license agreement... :/

They don't and it is. But the kid's charged under the DMCA. Although, since the Entertainment Software Association was the one that actually conducted the undercover sting operation, Microsoft could well be lurking in the shadows.

 

[JDKJ]

He's not allowed to do what he wants with it. Sure, he bought the console but not the rights to the technology within it. Say, you bought a CD. You own the CD but NOT the rights to the music on that CD
Modding a consoles innner workings is absolutely wrong no matter what way you look at it

No, again, it's not. Comparing it to a CD is pointless, a CD contains music which is an artistic work and therefore can be copyrighted. Hardware cannot be copyright, it can be patented, there's a pretty big difference. Plenty of people have replaced the stock cooling in their 360s, according to you, this would be illegal.

Well, if you really want to know...

Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute, or use for other purposes the Service, any game, application, or other content available or accessible through the Service, or any hardware or software associated with the Service or with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console is strictly prohibited and may result in cancellation of your account and/or your ability to access the Service, and the pursuit of other legal remedies by Microsoft.

http://www.xbox.com/en-us/legal/livetou

And don't ask for my opinion about this. I don't want to start (or take part in) a huge argument that I don't know much about.

Terms of Service != Law.

Under Section 1201 of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, the circumvention of copy control and access control mechanisms is illegal, with only a few narrow statutory exemptions and generally regardless of the underlying reason for the circumvention.

And it doesn't look from the public cock-slapping the Judge administered to the prosecution on opening day that he's half as inept as you think he is. Looks to me as if he knows more than a little bit about what's happening in his courtroom. But I'm willing to bet that the poor AUSA who got cock-slapped wishes the Judge was as inept as you think he is.

I read over that section last night, briefed over it again today. As I said earlier, it doesn't seem like there's too much that can relate to this case. That may be a simply be because it's overly vague at points and specific in others though.

As for the judge, if he had somehow demonstrated any sort of technical prowess in his "cock slapping" I might be inclined to agree. It seems more like the judge got baited.

How so doesn't it relate to the case? Assuming the prosecution's side of the matter as correct, then to offer your services in modifying a console for the purposes of allowing it to play pirated games would be a prohibited case. The law provides that:

"(2) No person shall manufacture, import, offer to the public, provide, or otherwise traffic in any technology, product, service, device, component, or part thereof, that ?
(A) is primarily designed or produced for the purpose of circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title;
(B) has only limited commercially significant purpose or use other than to circumvent a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title; or
(C) is marketed by that person or another acting in concert with that person with that person's knowledge for use in circumventing a technological measure that effectively controls access to a work protected under this title."

If in fact the ESA's undercover agent said to the kid, "Kid, I'll pay you eighty bucks if you modify this console for me so I can play pirated games on it" and the kid agrees, takes the cash, and performs the mod, how's that not squarely captured by the prohibition?

 

[Molander]

Well I don't exactly think Microsoft approves of modding of the console which is against the user license agreement... :/

They don't and it is. But the kid's charged under the DMCA. Although, since the Entertainment Software Association was the one that actually conducted the undercover sting operation, Microsoft could well be lurking in the shadows.

ahhkey thx =)

 

[BlackStar42]

Bollocks to that. 10 YEARS?! For modding fucking 360s?! Sure, fine him or give him a couple of months, but the same sentence as murderers? FUCK NO. You just can't justify that. Sorry for the caps, but this is wrong.

 

[Danpascooch]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the hardware, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

And he doesn't have any. He is doing it to let people pirate games.

not only that he has made money off of breaking their system, thats all kinds of wrong. Now ten years is a bit harsh but it will scare off modders a bit.

A bit hard?

Have you ever jay-walked? What kind of sentence do you think you deserve for that?

He didn't directly hurt anyone. He was supported by consumers. This is a copyright law case. How can anyone really be such a lapdog as to put this man's entire life going down the drain over a few lost dollars to a huge corporation as 'a bit harsh'.

i jay walk all the time we don't get arrested for that here
but yes its totally fine to prosecute him for being a thieving bastard. He is allowing people to bypass the purchase of videogames losing money for the production teams. And getting paid for it. Let him rot i say.

That's a load of crap, there are legitimate uses for modding a 360 and sentencing someone on the premise that they are "ALLOWING others to rob" is insane.

Under that logic we could sentence a store manager to ten years because he installed a poor security system at his own store that "allowed others to rob shit from his store"

 

[Danpascooch]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the system, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

He's not allowed to do what he wants with it. Sure, he bought the console but not the rights to the technology within it. Say, you bought a CD. You own the CD but NOT the rights to the music on that CD
Modding a consoles innner workings is absolutely wrong no matter what way you look at it

What if you mod it in order to play homebrew games that you made yourself on it? You aren't abusing, distributing, or stealing any of their shit, you just want to use your own legal stuff with it.