Man May Face 10 Years in Prison for Modding an Xbox

[Danpascooch]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the hardware, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

And he doesn't have any. He is doing it to let people pirate games.

not only that he has made money off of breaking their system, thats all kinds of wrong. Now ten years is a bit harsh but it will scare off modders a bit.

A bit hard?

Have you ever jay-walked? What kind of sentence do you think you deserve for that?

He didn't directly hurt anyone. He was supported by consumers. This is a copyright law case. How can anyone really be such a lapdog as to put this man's entire life going down the drain over a few lost dollars to a huge corporation as 'a bit harsh'.

i jay walk all the time we don't get arrested for that here
but yes its totally fine to prosecute him for being a thieving bastard. He is allowing people to bypass the purchase of videogames losing money for the production teams. And getting paid for it. Let him rot i say.

He didn't steal anything. He allowed people to gain the ability to run software from other 'production teams' who stole from Microsoft. There are legitimate applications of modding. What do you think should be the arbitrary sentencing of a murderer?

yeah the people can run legitimate software if they ask microsoft, hense the army using some of the hardware. And gratz for picking up on my misuse of the word thieving, note you dont question the bastard part. He is allowing people to run software they haven't purchased, so the intellectual property gets no money off of it. Please don't turn this into a piracy is ok thing. Because piracy isn't ok. It's why games companies close simple as.

That's pathetic.

First of all: I didn't say anything about the 'bastard' part because I have never met the man. It is an unfounded and childish personal attack.

Second: What I said was not condoning piracy, it was condoning modding. If you have no grasp of the difference then stop spouting ignorance and do a search. Its only a few clicks and several keys away.

Your argument is founded on the slippery slope idea. Basically, he gives people the ability to do many things, if they so choose it can be exploited for illegal purposes. So you say he should be punished. Using your same logic car manufacturers should be gone because they allow vehicular murder. Gun manufacturers should be executed because they allow people to be wrongly shot.

Its not 'simple as'. There's a huge debate going on about Piracy on the internet because its NOT simple as. You saying it doesn't make it so.

Ok your gun thing is null because guns shouldnt be being made in the numbers they are, so seeing them go would bring me no pain. And the car manufacturers are certified to do so. And aside from that they pay their money and the work WITH THE SYSTEM. (yes the driving test needs to be made more difficult I think most people are aware of that)

And it is a "simple as" if you can't afford something you shouldnt have it. No ifs or buts. Somebody put effort into making something should get rewarded accordingly. Exactly the reason why i have a problem with people making a way for people to pirate.

And finally YES IT COULD BE MODDED FOR ETHICAL REASONS but i feel confident in saying that would be a very low percentage of ethical mod users who would go through an unlicensed street modder rather than the company who makes it.

This is the United States of America, that "low percentage" deserves the right to practice their fully legal activity.

Microsoft needs to stop pursuing the modders or find a way to hit piracy without damaging people who are well within their rights, preferably the latter, but it has to be one of them, they can't continue the way they are now.

 

[Danpascooch]

This is ridiculous. I find everyone in support of the prosecution in this case to be thoroughly disgusting.

If the man is convicted, it's akin to saying a checkout clerk at Walmart is responsible for letting kids buy lots of toilet paper which is likely for a nefarious use. Why do people always assume modding equals piracy. There's no basis for that.

I think misinformed or perhaps simply haven't put much thought into it, but who knows.

"So, what you in for"

"Modding Xbox's"

"...You fuckin' with me?"

I can imagine the serial killer will be shitting his pants in fear.

He won't have time to shit his pants, he'll immediately jump out of the window to his death.

When the other prisoners hear why he jumped, they'll all follow suit and BAM! Prison overcrowding solved!

 

[etherlance]

Really 10 years??

There are people out there who:

* Molest kids
* Abuse women
* Abuse animals
* Steal
* Assualt people
* Rape
* Murder etc.

And those people get less than ten years, yet this guy mods a console that has been legally bought and as such is his property to do with as he sees fit (same applying to the consoles he modded for the other people) and they smack him down with this bullshit?

The law really needs a hot cup of "Wake the hell up", with a large helping of "Reality check" sprinkles on top.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Something I was just reminded of, some printers nowadays need a chip to bypass the check on 'compatible' third part ink cartridges.

Seeing as essentially you're using a hack to bypass the security and avoiding paying for the more profitable original cartridges, surely that's an equal case.

Not with printers that just plain accept it, but if you're circumventing their security with a gadget...

We're already told that using 3rd part ink voids our warranty, which is unbelievable balls.

Why not just charge $150 for the damned printer and not charge more by weight than GOLD for the ink.



As I said above tho, he illegally fucked a multi million dollar corporation and not an innocent woman or child, therefore it's much worse in the eyes of the law.

Not I'm not making 'fun' of rape, I'm simply stating how sickened I am by the fact that the two crimes are comparable.

I foresee torches coming EULAs soon, so that if you don't use energizer batteries they come around and repossess your home and sell your children into slavery.

 

[JDKJ]

Bollocks to that. 10 YEARS?! For modding fucking 360s?! Sure, fine him or give him a couple of months, but the same sentence as murderers? FUCK NO. You just can't justify that. Sorry for the caps, but this is wrong.

Relax. Ten years is the maximum. The kid ain't getting ten years. If yesterday's tounge-lashing of the prosecution by the Judge is any kinda useful indication of what he thinks are the merits of the case, the kid's likely to walk outta court scott-free.

 

[JDKJ]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the system, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

He's not allowed to do what he wants with it. Sure, he bought the console but not the rights to the technology within it. Say, you bought a CD. You own the CD but NOT the rights to the music on that CD
Modding a consoles innner workings is absolutely wrong no matter what way you look at it

What if you mod it in order to play homebrew games that you made yourself on it? You aren't abusing, distributing, or stealing any of their shit, you just want to use your own legal stuff with it.

That's what the Judge pointed out to the prosecution yesterday: modifying for homebrew use is a fair use. Only a use that infringes on the copyright of another is an unfair use.

 

[Danpascooch]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the system, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

He's not allowed to do what he wants with it. Sure, he bought the console but not the rights to the technology within it. Say, you bought a CD. You own the CD but NOT the rights to the music on that CD
Modding a consoles innner workings is absolutely wrong no matter what way you look at it

What if you mod it in order to play homebrew games that you made yourself on it? You aren't abusing, distributing, or stealing any of their shit, you just want to use your own legal stuff with it.

That's what the Judge pointed out to the prosecution yesterday: modifying for homebrew use is a fair use. Only a use that infringes on the copyright of another is an unfair use.

That's not the prosecutions argument, they are saying that because of the DMCA it doesn't matter, they circumvented a block intentionally put on by the developers.

It's bullshit.

 

[Aklyon]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the system, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

Theres more lawyers than sensible people, though.

 

[Buccura]

It's ok, so long as he behaves in prison he will be out in 5, since each day of good behavior gets you one day off your sentence, no matter what you were convicted of.

 

[JDKJ]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the system, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

He's not allowed to do what he wants with it. Sure, he bought the console but not the rights to the technology within it. Say, you bought a CD. You own the CD but NOT the rights to the music on that CD
Modding a consoles innner workings is absolutely wrong no matter what way you look at it

What if you mod it in order to play homebrew games that you made yourself on it? You aren't abusing, distributing, or stealing any of their shit, you just want to use your own legal stuff with it.

That's what the Judge pointed out to the prosecution yesterday: modifying for homebrew use is a fair use. Only a use that infringes on the copyright of another is an unfair use.

That's not the prosecutions argument, they are saying that because of the DMCA it doesn't matter, they circumvented a block intentionally put on by the developers.

It's bullshit.

I think you misunderstand me. If you read the following account of yesterday's court proceedings:

"The judge on Wednesday even backtracked on an earlier ruling that had prohibited Crippen, 28, from raising a 'fair use' defense at trial.

Crippen was hoping to argue to jurors that it was legal to hack the consoles because the modification had noninfringing purposes, like allowing the machines to run homebrew software, or permitting limited fair use of copyrighted material such as making backup copies of video games.

While the judge ruled last week that such a defense was not permitted by the DMCA, he seemingly changed course during his speech.

'The only way to be able to play copied games is to circumvent the technology,' Gutierrez said. 'How about backup games and the homebrewed?'"

you'll see where the Judge seems more willing than before to allow the defendant to introduce a "fair use" defense (e.g., to argue that the modification could have been done to allow for the playing of homebrewed games).

 

[Danpascooch]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the hardware, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

And he doesn't have any. He is doing it to let people pirate games.

not only that he has made money off of breaking their system, thats all kinds of wrong. Now ten years is a bit harsh but it will scare off modders a bit.

A bit hard?

Have you ever jay-walked? What kind of sentence do you think you deserve for that?

He didn't directly hurt anyone. He was supported by consumers. This is a copyright law case. How can anyone really be such a lapdog as to put this man's entire life going down the drain over a few lost dollars to a huge corporation as 'a bit harsh'.

i jay walk all the time we don't get arrested for that here
but yes its totally fine to prosecute him for being a thieving bastard. He is allowing people to bypass the purchase of videogames losing money for the production teams. And getting paid for it. Let him rot i say.

That's a load of crap, there are legitimate uses for modding a 360 and sentencing someone on the premise that they are "ALLOWING others to rob" is insane.

Under that logic we could sentence a store manager to ten years because he installed a poor security system at his own store that "allowed others to rob shit from his store"

iv said before that there are legitimate uses and any of them would probably be allowed if you were to go and ask Microsoft first.

And no because the store manager isnt providing a way for him to be robbed and he isnt charging for that privilege either sorry

Try contacting 1-800-4MY-XBOX and ask "Can I please get some written permission to mod my Xbox for legitamate homebrew uses?"

You will probably be hung up on immediately.

 

[Danpascooch]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the hardware, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

And he doesn't have any. He is doing it to let people pirate games.

not only that he has made money off of breaking their system, thats all kinds of wrong. Now ten years is a bit harsh but it will scare off modders a bit.

A bit hard?

Have you ever jay-walked? What kind of sentence do you think you deserve for that?

He didn't directly hurt anyone. He was supported by consumers. This is a copyright law case. How can anyone really be such a lapdog as to put this man's entire life going down the drain over a few lost dollars to a huge corporation as 'a bit harsh'.

i jay walk all the time we don't get arrested for that here
but yes its totally fine to prosecute him for being a thieving bastard. He is allowing people to bypass the purchase of videogames losing money for the production teams. And getting paid for it. Let him rot i say.

He didn't steal anything. He allowed people to gain the ability to run software from other 'production teams' who stole from Microsoft. There are legitimate applications of modding. What do you think should be the arbitrary sentencing of a murderer?

yeah the people can run legitimate software if they ask microsoft, hense the army using some of the hardware. And gratz for picking up on my misuse of the word thieving, note you dont question the bastard part. He is allowing people to run software they haven't purchased, so the intellectual property gets no money off of it. Please don't turn this into a piracy is ok thing. Because piracy isn't ok. It's why games companies close simple as.

That's pathetic.

First of all: I didn't say anything about the 'bastard' part because I have never met the man. It is an unfounded and childish personal attack.

Second: What I said was not condoning piracy, it was condoning modding. If you have no grasp of the difference then stop spouting ignorance and do a search. Its only a few clicks and several keys away.

Your argument is founded on the slippery slope idea. Basically, he gives people the ability to do many things, if they so choose it can be exploited for illegal purposes. So you say he should be punished. Using your same logic car manufacturers should be gone because they allow vehicular murder. Gun manufacturers should be executed because they allow people to be wrongly shot.

Its not 'simple as'. There's a huge debate going on about Piracy on the internet because its NOT simple as. You saying it doesn't make it so.

Ok your gun thing is null because guns shouldnt be being made in the numbers they are, so seeing them go would bring me no pain. And the car manufacturers are certified to do so. And aside from that they pay their money and the work WITH THE SYSTEM. (yes the driving test needs to be made more difficult I think most people are aware of that)

And it is a "simple as" if you can't afford something you shouldnt have it. No ifs or buts. Somebody put effort into making something should get rewarded accordingly. Exactly the reason why i have a problem with people making a way for people to pirate.

And finally YES IT COULD BE MODDED FOR ETHICAL REASONS but i feel confident in saying that would be a very low percentage of ethical mod users who would go through an unlicensed street modder rather than the company who makes it.

This is the United States of America, that "low percentage" deserves the right to practice their fully legal activity.

Microsoft needs to stop pursuing the modders or find a way to hit piracy without damaging people who are well within their rights, preferably the latter, but it has to be one of them, they can't continue the way they are now.

yeah the "low percentage" isnt getting pissed on, its the guy selling to them, which is fine

Im sorry but well within their rights is regardless of the point. The people being damaged aren't the homebrewers or the techies figuring stuff out or even the army who use for it various purposes, its people stealing things. When somebody comes down on a homebrewer then you have your case but im fairly sure people doing that can homebrew can hack their boxes easy enough.

How are the homebrewers not being damaged here? This guy is being put on trial for allowing them to run homebrew games.

 

[Danpascooch]

This shouldn't even be a case, he bought the system, he's allowed to do what he wants with it. So are the people he enabled to do the same. There are plenty of legit reasons someone would want to mod a 360.

He's not allowed to do what he wants with it. Sure, he bought the console but not the rights to the technology within it. Say, you bought a CD. You own the CD but NOT the rights to the music on that CD
Modding a consoles innner workings is absolutely wrong no matter what way you look at it

What if you mod it in order to play homebrew games that you made yourself on it? You aren't abusing, distributing, or stealing any of their shit, you just want to use your own legal stuff with it.

That's what the Judge pointed out to the prosecution yesterday: modifying for homebrew use is a fair use. Only a use that infringes on the copyright of another is an unfair use.

That's not the prosecutions argument, they are saying that because of the DMCA it doesn't matter, they circumvented a block intentionally put on by the developers.

It's bullshit.

I think you misunderstand me. If you read the following account of yesterday's court proceedings:

"The judge on Wednesday even backtracked on an earlier ruling that had prohibited Crippen, 28, from raising a 'fair use' defense at trial.

Crippen was hoping to argue to jurors that it was legal to hack the consoles because the modification had noninfringing purposes, like allowing the machines to run homebrew software, or permitting limited fair use of copyrighted material such as making backup copies of video games.

While the judge ruled last week that such a defense was not permitted by the DMCA, he seemingly changed course during his speech.

'The only way to be able to play copied games is to circumvent the technology,' Gutierrez said. 'How about backup games and the homebrewed?'"

you'll see where the Judge seems more willing than before to allow the defendant to introduce a "fair use" defense (e.g., to argue that the modification could have been done to allow for the playing of homebrewed games).

I was actually agreeing with you, I was surprised that a judge finally had a rational opinion on this, and that the persecution are idiots.

 

[luckycharms8282]

It doesnt seem right. I read of a case where a drunk driver killed a father and son and got eight years. This guy may get a harsher punishment for tinkering with games.

Plus, why is the FBI dedicating a full duty undercover agent to uncover a guy who mods video games for some cash. Guess that's or biggest problem in America right now, huh?