Mass Effect 3 Ending Controversy

[T3hSource]

3 weeks,one more and the gaming community might as well go nuts.
I wonder if some people really did spend more time faffing over this than playing the entire trilogy,that's a disturbing thought,even more so to think that it can actually be true.

 

[Frankster]

snippy

Just to make it clear I don't believe most of the "evidence" for indoctrination hypothesis I've seen thus far, or at least don't see it as concrete proof.

Pretty sure I already said in this thread that the only pieces of evidence that has caused me to think "heh maybe it's possible..." was sheperd getting indoctrinated eyes at the end (and it really is indoctrinated eyes, with the distinct double orb around the pupil) and the kid being in that exploding building way before you meet him. But that's hardly enough for me to go totally on board with the hypothesis.

Point was though that people HAVE been showing evidence in support of the theory so to say they haven't is just a lie. Now whether you think the evidence is BS or not is a completely different matter.

 

[Something Amyss]

Ok, that was a cheap shot on my part. I wanted to mention the FTC thing and ended up throwing it in as part of a joke. Bad form.

Well, I can't say I've never had a bad joke go awry, so I can't hold it against you. XD

 

[SoopaSte123]

Spot on as always, Shamus. And great link to how it should have ended! Now I really don't know if I prefer that or the indoctrination theory...

 

[Eppy (Bored)]

My feeling on the matter is that it wasn't Bioware's story to tell. Mass Effect, to an unprecedented level, asks you to BE Commander Shepard, not just play through his or her story. Mass Effect is the PLAYER'S story, and Bioware decided to try and retake it, which was a terrible idea because that was never going to make anybody happy. If this were any other franchise I'd say that no, changing the ending would be a terrible idea and set a bad precedent, but Mass Effect isn't any other franchise - it belongs to the players, not to Bioware.

The ending also strikes me as rushed as hell. The dream sequences? How much of the game world do they actually affect? How frequently are they referenced? It seems to me that they were tacked on at the last minute, a hurried and poorly written conclusion to an otherwise epic franchise. This is why the Valve/Blizzard 'When It's Done' approach to game development works so well - they take however much time they need to make their games well, and Bioware certainly has (had?) the auteur license, if you will, to do that. The fanbase would wait, and they should have realized that and taken their time. At this point Bioware can only do damage control, and no, they will never please everybody, but they should at least try. Mass Effect's fanbase is devoted to this franchise because they are an integral part of it; they ARE Commander Shepard. Mass Effect 3 tried to take away this series' best attribute - the player's integral importance to the story, and did it with a poor Deus Ex Machina to boot. Because the fanbase is so integral to the story the players are much more directly hurt by the way this game ended, which is why we've seen the huge furor we have; if Half Life 2 Episode X ends with Gordon Freeman being squished by a giant space walrus or something people will be upset with Valve, but they certainly won't come out in such numbers with such anger as they have with ME3 and actually demand, en masse, that Valve change the ending. People are invested in Gordon's story, but Mass Effect 3 is the *player's* story, not just some random avatar.

 

[Emiscary]

You've got some fine points. But I'd argue that the fundamental difference between altering a book's plot to suit the audience's expectations and altering a game's is that the reader had *no* part in determining the outcome of the book's story. They were quite simply just along for the ride. A gamer playing a game like Mass Effect has not only been placed *into* the story, but they've been told to expect that their choices would impact the course of the story and it's ultimate conclusion.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

Thank you for writing this. Now that the dust has settled, it nice to see that the more rational voices criticizing the ME ending can be heard.

That fan fiction you linked seems to be cropping up in every forum. I think its on its way to becoming the new canon. Its not like Bioware is opposed to using material from deviantart.

 

[luckshot]

i agree with shamus completely on this.


what gets on my nerves the most is that they most likely did not have a plan for ending the series.

oh they had a plan. drew kapyrshri-lanka or however you fucking spell it had the whole series written from the start like any good trilogy should be, but they abandoned his plan, apparently because a vague outline of it was leaked. on a completely unrelated note, drew recently quit.

and now we see what happens when two assholes try to hijack the ending of someone else's story. if your interested in the original ending (or at least what we know of it):

Spoiler

remember haestrom from ME2? that planet whose sun was expanding much faster than it should be? remember how it was proposed to be caused by dark energy? apparently, dark energy was going to fuck up the whole galaxy in a similar way if left unchecked.

but, an ancient race caught wind of this a very, very long time ago. time was running out, so in an act of desperation, they did the only thing they could. they could suppress the dark energy for a time (im going to take a wild leap and say it was about 50k years), but it meant something horrible had to be done. they had to utilize a very dark technology, taking their whole race, and turning it into harbinger, the first reaper.

SOMETHING about being a reaper or making a reaper held off dark energy for a awhile longer, at that was the reason for the cycle. the reapers would come by when the races of the galaxy had developed enough and harvest them into a new reaper, because they were unable to find a more permanent solution. that is what all of harbinger's racial comments in ME2 were about: he had singled out humans as the only suitable race to be a new reaper.

apparently, a human reaper was what they needed to stop the dark energy permanently, so the final choice of the game was going to be: subject your own race to the horrible fate of being a reaper for the good of the galaxy, or kill them all and say "we'll figure it out on our own, thanks."

i think that the reapers ended up killing all intelligent life as opposed to just harvesting the race they wanted as part of a "breeding" program to actually try and direct galactic evolution to make humans, like we were planned from the start as their final solution, but thats just my guess.

exactly that abandoned ending is the abandoned flotation device while we got tied to the anchor because the captain thought we would like it better

and now that they got called on it they are trying to dredge us up from the bottom, with the end result being a bunch of drowned and bloated bodies...or upset fans who have had their faith in the company and game series shaken, but i prefer my analogy

 

[Ken Sapp]

I can understand some of the outrage over the ending of ME3. Twist ending with no closure. I don't have a problem with the twist, but the lack of closure after all of the major choices made throughout the series makes all of those choices meaningless.
Assuming that not everyone has finished ME3:

Spoiler

I can live with the destruction of the Mass Relay network and the Citadel. But there should be some mention of how the major racial conflicts were resolved. Leave the Destruction/Control/Synthesis ending up in the air but make our choices mean something more than numbers on a screen that affect nothing other than who we can talk to before we charge the hill. Is it reasonable that the hero gives up there life to save the universe? Sure. No problem.

Here is one suggestion I would make. In that scene after the credits where descendants of the current generation are shown, add a short bit showing new mass relays being built or the old ones being repaired. And maybe some short vignettes to give us a sense that our decisions had consequences, even if it is just text cards such as they used in Dragon Age Origins

Finally, I know I will probably be flamed for it but: I enjoyed the series and the ending as it stands. Could it be done better? Of course. I never expected sunshine, rainbows and ponies but a little bit of closure would have been nice.

 

[Animyr]

Not being able to satisfy everyone?

Um, isn't that what multiple endings is for?

 

[BanZeus]

snippy

Just to make it clear I don't believe most of the "evidence" for indoctrination hypothesis I've seen thus far, or at least don't see it as concrete proof.

Pretty sure I already said in this thread that the only pieces of evidence that has caused me to think "heh maybe it's possible..." was sheperd getting indoctrinated eyes at the end (and it really is indoctrinated eyes, with the distinct double orb around the pupil) and the kid being in that exploding building way before you meet him. But that's hardly enough for me to go totally on board with the hypothesis.

Point was though that people HAVE been showing evidence in support of the theory so to say they haven't is just a lie. Now whether you think the evidence is BS or not is a completely different matter.

If our difference in opinion about evidence is mostly semantic, it's probably not worth arguing.

That said, as far as I know there's no such thing as "indoctrinated eyes". If you're referring to TIM's occular implants, he's had those since his first appearance.

Spoiler

Shepard gets some of his/her own at the beginning of ME2, you can hide them with surgery or by taking paragon actions.

Spoiler

Or you can rock the scars.​

 

[Daft Ghosty]

Finally, I know I will probably be flamed for it but: I enjoyed the series and the ending as it stands. Could it be done better? Of course. I never expected sunshine, rainbows and ponies but a little bit of closure would have been nice.

Na, I sure wont flame you. You are 100% entitled to enjoy the ending, and in many ways I am envious that you do. This means there isn't a bitter taste in your mouth, and you will enjoy playing the series over and over again. I agree 100% the series has been great. Its just for me and others that last 1% that spoiled it for me.

I would like closure the most. The cookie cutter endings I could learn to live with. I can learn to live with what happens with the relays as well, as long as that is covered in a later game (because who are we kidding there will be more mass effect). The two things I can't live with though is the plot hole with the Normandy, and crew members aboard the ship. And two that there is no closure with the forces you built up, and the crew members who fought along side of you. If minimum they could do is fix those two points, then I could over look the other ppor writing.

 

[Frankster]

snip

Our difference in opinion about evidence does indeed seem mostly semantic xD

But yeh TIMs eyes are what I was reffering to. Some fans have been saying this since me2 so is nothing new, guess it's just another way to insert fanfiction.

I honestly didn't know that Shep could get those implants too though, guess I hid mine and never noticed it throughout my games. So that explains that then.

Which means the only other argument that had me musing was the kid running into the building that explodes (same kid you talk to later and see in your dreams). And this could just be explained with bad writing or a simple oversight.

 

[Ken Sapp]

Finally, I know I will probably be flamed for it but: I enjoyed the series and the ending as it stands. Could it be done better? Of course. I never expected sunshine, rainbows and ponies but a little bit of closure would have been nice.

Na, I sure wont flame you. You are 100% entitled to enjoy the ending, and in many ways I am envious that you do. This means there isn't a bitter taste in your mouth, and you will enjoy playing the series over and over again. I agree 100% the series has been great. Its just for me and others that last 1% that spoiled it for me.

I would like closure the most. The cookie cutter endings I could learn to live with. I can learn to live with what happens with the relays as well, as long as that is covered in a later game (because who are we kidding there will be more mass effect). The two things I can't live with though is the plot hole with the Normandy, and crew members aboard the ship. And two that there is no closure with the forces you built up, and the crew members who fought along side of you. If minimum they could do is fix those two points, then I could over look the other ppor writing.

See, I don't consider the Normandy fleeing as a plot hole or an inconsistency. Joker fleeing the blast wave makes perfect sense particularly in light of the, at the time, known effects of mass relay explosions. For all everyone knows Shepard is dead already and I at least told him to take care of the ship and crew before I left. Alot of people assume he was heading towards the relay which does not make sense since that is where the blat waves are coming from and he is clearly heading the opposite direction.

The relays being destroyed is an inconvenience but FTL exists and is the normal mode of intersystem travel while the relays enable jumping long distances instantaneously but they are hubs between clusters and there are very few of them compared to the number of inhabitable systems. So the fleet in Sol is not actually stranded in Sol system and could make their ways home although it may take a lifetime or two to get back.

The one thing that was really lacking was the lack of closure for your teammates and the decisions that have been made through out the series. There are alot of points to take into account but simple text card swaps would have gone a long way.

 

[Daft Ghosty]

See, I don't consider the Normandy fleeing as a plot hole or an inconsistency. Joker fleeing the blast wave makes perfect sense particularly in light of the, at the time, known effects of mass relay explosions. For all everyone knows Shepard is dead already and I at least told him to take care of the ship and crew before I left. Alot of people assume he was heading towards the relay which does not make sense since that is where the blat waves are coming from and he is clearly heading the opposite direction.

See that's the thing. For one Joker wouldn't leave Shepard. From ME2, and ME3 joker made a few statements about being the fault for Shepard dying. I can see him coming down to find Shepard's body. Not scooping up all your companions, and beating it back to space. I can't get over the fact that people who were in my group when running to the beam, end up on the Normandy.

Now that said, the point you make about the Normandy being in a normal FTL, and not a relay jump. That makes allot more sense. I always took the scene as Joker had made a mass relay jump, which made no sense. I even went back and looked at the Omega jump from ME2, and the time they were in the jump was really short, so the scene with the Normandy trying to outrun the wave front makes a bit more sense. Now I just need to understand his reasoning for leaving Shepard behind, dead or not. And why the companions would do the same.

The relays being destroyed is an inconvenience but FTL exists and is the normal mode of intersystem travel while the relays enable jumping long distances instantaneously but they are hubs between clusters and there are very few of them compared to the number of inhabitable systems. So the fleet in Sol is not actually stranded in Sol system and could make their ways home although it may take a lifetime or two to get back.

Well the problem here is the amount of Ezo that would be needed to make the trek. The Milky Way is about 100,000 light years across. The Quarian seem to have the furthest distance to travel. They look to be about 80k light years or so away from earth. If you go by the wiki that says most ships can do about a dozen light years in a day. The Quarians are looking at about a 18 year journey. Assuming enough fuel that is =) So yeah I guess it isn't that bad when you look at the math. I personally hope they just rebuild the relays. Which begs the questions why have them blowing up in the ending if this is their solution with another ME game.

The one thing that was really lacking was the lack of closure for your teammates and the decisions that have been made through out the series. There are alot of points to take into account but simple text card swaps would have gone a long way.

Word. This I need above all else.

 

[ThingInTheCoat]

I agree, as I've said (and perhaps not entirely clearly), I agree that the ending was poorly delivered and constructed. I just applaud the idea of the ultimate failure of the player character for once.

After reading your reply, I think I understand better where you're at, and it seems we agree a little bit more than I thought. I just have a couple issues with what you're saying.

Just to clarify, when I say that Mass Effect isn't really a tragedy, I mean it isn't strictly a tragedy. The game can actually play out as a sort of semi-tragedy, if you allow it to do so through certain decisions. In fact, I would have gladly taken an ending that resulted in outright, unambiguous tragedy, where the cycle of destruction continues unabated and with no sign of stopping, had the story I'd pursued followed that course through my various failures and missteps. Hell, I'd have enjoyed it if they punished you by deliberately snatching choice away in response to your failures, providing you only A, B, and C in varying shades of bleakness for your inability to overcome. The only thing about your position I took exception to is that it would be a good idea to perform a bait-and-switch to remove all options but failure, as some sort of meta attempt to deconstruct the series' premise. I just can't adhere to that idea, especially in the way it is applied here. The developers claiming, even after the game was finished and everything was chiseled into stone, that your choices will matter in the end and can earn you victory or defeat or some place in-between, then deliberately removing that concept of choice -- the very cornerstone of the series -- is just patently absurd and bizarrely dishonest to me, and I can't see any reason that the writers would do so except as a means to prove how "clever" they are and get people talking. Again, sacrificing the audience's satisfaction for authorial ego -- something a real and effective tragedy or deconstruction does not do.

You can feel free to do a deconstruction or subversion of a genre or theme, but you don't do it in the way Bioware appears to have done it, by cranking out a 100+ hour experience that pulls the rug out from under your feet at the last five minutes and then stands over you smirking, no matter how "well" it might have been pulled off. All that does is piss people off. You may be able to succeed with that in shorter works, but not in media that encompasses the amount of time and investment that this game does. After all, it's my opinion that these sort of devices work best as sucker-punches, building you up a bit then knocking you down to deliver the message. They don't work as effectively by trundling you up a mountain and then suddenly pushing you off the side. It may increase the impact to do so, but it will increase it to beyond terminal velocity.

I'd go so far as to say that the idea of exploring total player failure would work really well in shorter games, perhaps indie ones. Just not in a case like this. Absolutely not in a case like this.

As a matter of fact, I don't even believe it was a deliberate attempt to be subversive anyway -- I'm just responding to your position that you thought it was, without alleging you're right or wrong in doing so. People are coming up with all of these explanations and theories about the ending because it provides so little information to work with. It's a meatless, spineless nothing of an ending that gives no firm -- or even shaky -- understanding of just what happened. Some people thought it was bittersweet or hopeful, the majority appears to have found it nihilistic and confusing, and nobody is completely wrong or right because they have nothing to form these assessments with but wild speculation and conjecture.

In any event, going back onto the topic of the article: I mostly agree with Shamus about changing the ending not helping anything. The ending is pretty much a Pandora's Box that will now never close, as I see it, and any alterations or concessions are probably going to seem hollow and forced. I could, of course, be totally wrong, and they somehow end up knocking it out of the park this time, but after seeing how the developers botched things so horribly on a conclusion that was allegedly years in the making (like hell it was), I have little faith in their abilities to patch this up. Having said that, I still want nothing more than to see where they go with this and I fully support the idea of expanding or altering the ending, if for no other reason than sheer bloody-mindedness.

 

[ThePS1Fan]

Spread the life sucks message over a movie you're a sadist.
Spread it over 3 movies you're a masochist.
Spread it over 3 +30 hour games you're suicidal.

I think that's how the list should go.

 

[jthm]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/8775-Dragon-Age-Destiny

Can I just point out that bioware changes shit in their other long standing franchise when it suits them to do it?

 

[I_am_acting]

Yet another Mass Effect 3 ending rant that fails to mention Fallout 3. I Am Dissapoint shamus, shame on you

 

[ARCTIC_EAGLE]

Yet another Mass Effect 3 ending rant that fails to mention Fallout 3. I Am Dissapoint shamus, shame on you

that ending was more broken than ME3's, I don't think its really necessary to mention.
OT: Good write up, I enjoyed it even if I didn't agree with everything in it