If our difference in opinion about evidence is mostly semantic, it's probably not worth arguing.Frankster said:Just to make it clear I don't believe most of the "evidence" for indoctrination hypothesis I've seen thus far, or at least don't see it as concrete proof.BanZeus said:snippy
Pretty sure I already said in this thread that the only pieces of evidence that has caused me to think "heh maybe it's possible..." was sheperd getting indoctrinated eyes at the end (and it really is indoctrinated eyes, with the distinct double orb around the pupil) and the kid being in that exploding building way before you meet him. But that's hardly enough for me to go totally on board with the hypothesis.
Point was though that people HAVE been showing evidence in support of the theory so to say they haven't is just a lie. Now whether you think the evidence is BS or not is a completely different matter.
Na, I sure wont flame you. You are 100% entitled to enjoy the ending, and in many ways I am envious that you do. This means there isn't a bitter taste in your mouth, and you will enjoy playing the series over and over again. I agree 100% the series has been great. Its just for me and others that last 1% that spoiled it for me.Ken Sapp said:Finally, I know I will probably be flamed for it but: I enjoyed the series and the ending as it stands. Could it be done better? Of course. I never expected sunshine, rainbows and ponies but a little bit of closure would have been nice.
Our difference in opinion about evidence does indeed seem mostly semantic xDBanZeus said:snip
See, I don't consider the Normandy fleeing as a plot hole or an inconsistency. Joker fleeing the blast wave makes perfect sense particularly in light of the, at the time, known effects of mass relay explosions. For all everyone knows Shepard is dead already and I at least told him to take care of the ship and crew before I left. Alot of people assume he was heading towards the relay which does not make sense since that is where the blat waves are coming from and he is clearly heading the opposite direction.Daft Ghosty said:Na, I sure wont flame you. You are 100% entitled to enjoy the ending, and in many ways I am envious that you do. This means there isn't a bitter taste in your mouth, and you will enjoy playing the series over and over again. I agree 100% the series has been great. Its just for me and others that last 1% that spoiled it for me.Ken Sapp said:Finally, I know I will probably be flamed for it but: I enjoyed the series and the ending as it stands. Could it be done better? Of course. I never expected sunshine, rainbows and ponies but a little bit of closure would have been nice.
I would like closure the most. The cookie cutter endings I could learn to live with. I can learn to live with what happens with the relays as well, as long as that is covered in a later game (because who are we kidding there will be more mass effect). The two things I can't live with though is the plot hole with the Normandy, and crew members aboard the ship. And two that there is no closure with the forces you built up, and the crew members who fought along side of you. If minimum they could do is fix those two points, then I could over look the other ppor writing.
See that's the thing. For one Joker wouldn't leave Shepard. From ME2, and ME3 joker made a few statements about being the fault for Shepard dying. I can see him coming down to find Shepard's body. Not scooping up all your companions, and beating it back to space. I can't get over the fact that people who were in my group when running to the beam, end up on the Normandy.Ken Sapp said:See, I don't consider the Normandy fleeing as a plot hole or an inconsistency. Joker fleeing the blast wave makes perfect sense particularly in light of the, at the time, known effects of mass relay explosions. For all everyone knows Shepard is dead already and I at least told him to take care of the ship and crew before I left. Alot of people assume he was heading towards the relay which does not make sense since that is where the blat waves are coming from and he is clearly heading the opposite direction.
Well the problem here is the amount of Ezo that would be needed to make the trek. The Milky Way is about 100,000 light years across. The Quarian seem to have the furthest distance to travel. They look to be about 80k light years or so away from earth. If you go by the wiki that says most ships can do about a dozen light years in a day. The Quarians are looking at about a 18 year journey. Assuming enough fuel that is =) So yeah I guess it isn't that bad when you look at the math. I personally hope they just rebuild the relays. Which begs the questions why have them blowing up in the ending if this is their solution with another ME game.Ken Sapp said:The relays being destroyed is an inconvenience but FTL exists and is the normal mode of intersystem travel while the relays enable jumping long distances instantaneously but they are hubs between clusters and there are very few of them compared to the number of inhabitable systems. So the fleet in Sol is not actually stranded in Sol system and could make their ways home although it may take a lifetime or two to get back.
Word. This I need above all else.Ken Sapp said:The one thing that was really lacking was the lack of closure for your teammates and the decisions that have been made through out the series. There are alot of points to take into account but simple text card swaps would have gone a long way.
After reading your reply, I think I understand better where you're at, and it seems we agree a little bit more than I thought. I just have a couple issues with what you're saying.SL33TBL1ND said:I agree, as I've said (and perhaps not entirely clearly), I agree that the ending was poorly delivered and constructed. I just applaud the idea of the ultimate failure of the player character for once.
that ending was more broken than ME3's, I don't think its really necessary to mention.I_am_acting said:Yet another Mass Effect 3 ending rant that fails to mention Fallout 3. I Am Dissapoint shamus, shame on you
Why did they get rid of poor ol' Drew.RedEyesBlackGamer said:Good read. Allegedly (from a post that might have been from someone on the writing team), the ending was the brain child of Casey Hudson and Mac Walters.
Another minor thing is that Bioware changed the look of Batarians. And if you have the official patch for ME1 it retcons them from having a head that looks vaguely like a hammerhead shark to more human shaped. Incredibly minor in the grand scale but worth mentioning that they have violated the principle of "unchanging artistic vision"jthm said:http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comics/critical-miss/8775-Dragon-Age-Destiny
Can I just point out that bioware changes shit in their other long standing franchise when it suits them to do it?
Thanks for this. It's really helped me understand the position of people who don't like the ending. Some of the best discussion I've ever had on this site.ThingInTheCoat said:snip
Nah man, why would anyone flame you? If you truly enjoyed the ending as it stands then more power to you.Ken Sapp said:I can understand some of the outrage over the ending of ME3. Twist ending with no closure. I don't have a problem with the twist, but the lack of closure after all of the major choices made throughout the series makes all of those choices meaningless.
Assuming that not everyone has finished ME3:
I can live with the destruction of the Mass Relay network and the Citadel. But there should be some mention of how the major racial conflicts were resolved. Leave the Destruction/Control/Synthesis ending up in the air but make our choices mean something more than numbers on a screen that affect nothing other than who we can talk to before we charge the hill. Is it reasonable that the hero gives up there life to save the universe? Sure. No problem.
Here is one suggestion I would make. In that scene after the credits where descendants of the current generation are shown, add a short bit showing new mass relays being built or the old ones being repaired. And maybe some short vignettes to give us a sense that our decisions had consequences, even if it is just text cards such as they used in Dragon Age Origins
Finally, I know I will probably be flamed for it but: I enjoyed the series and the ending as it stands. Could it be done better? Of course. I never expected sunshine, rainbows and ponies but a little bit of closure would have been nice.
I think this sums up my feelings nicely and my thoughts on this article. Now that I have calmed down from my hatred of the endings, I can step back and look at it as a little more objectively. I still think the endings are atrociously bad, but only because, as Shamus said, they don't do the three things you need to have a good ending.tautologico said:I think this is a key point regarding the people wanting a new ending. I've been in a lot of discussions, and people who want a different ending want different things. Some really want a happy ending, some want to know "what happened", some want better explanations. No matter what Bioware does now, it will disappoint a large portion of the fans wanting a new ending.Some people really did expect a mega-happy ending, and that's the only thing that will satisfy them. Some people wanted closure. Some wanted tons of possible endings. Some didn't care about the galaxy, they just wanted to retire on Rannoch with Tali. By saying they plan to change the ending, BioWare now has to decide which groups of people they're going to make happy. (All of them? Good luck with that.)
I think the best course of action, if they really need to redo the ending, is to try and do it better, but following the original intentions. Clarify the ending, make it work, not remake the whole thing.