Mass Effect 3, Indoctrination theory (new and extended)

[Vault101]

I'm not sure I'm gonna look at it, but damn, the fact that someone made a goddamn movie about the theory is impressive in a really insane sort of way.

I do agree though, that the theory itself is fascinating, and possibly the greatest thing to come out of Mass Effect 3.

exactally..people seem to think this just a bucnh of angry/crazy fans who cant get over it..its not that at all, if you like stuff then digging deeper and analysing it is fun (and this video does bring up a few newpoints)

 

[Vault101]

I believe it.

Even if it's mostly because I don't wanna believe the current... "canon" ending...

But it is a really cool way to go.

I'm more "I really want to belive but remaining neutral due to the fact that its too good to be true"

even if its not true we can always pretend it is

 

[chadachada123]

I think that it's pretty clear that they *intended* for indoctrination to play SOME part in it, or at least had it very heavily considered as an option.

There are just too many things that wouldn't make sense to have without indoctrination.

I feel like they probably ditched it at the behest of that talentless lead hack. Probably.

 

[bullet_sandw1ch]

I don't know, even the ending they were "supposed" to go with, the dark matter ending, doesn't make any sense.

Let's just chalk it up to "videogame endings suck".

can you explain the original endings for me? what were they supposed to be?

 

[Something Amyss]

and since he put in so much effort, and since it brings some new (albeit small) stuff to the table I think it deserves a look...

No, no it doesn't. It's still tripe, even if it's anal, minutia-laden tripe.

Come on, folks. Pro or against the indoctrination theory, just admit: Bioware doesn't make good stories. Your expectations were built up in your head and NOTHING can compare.

 

[Irridium]

Not so hot on the indoctrination ending.

To quote Shamus Young:

I think that would be better than the ending we got, but I don?t think it it was ever intended by the writers. This theory involves an incredible level of subtle symbolism, which goes against just how ham-fisted the rest of the story is. To wit: If these writers thought Shepard was indoctrinated in the last stage of the game, we would know it.

Still, love all the investigating and whatnot going into all this. Seeing so many people really get into a game's story and lore is great to see. Wish it happened more often, but I'm glad it's happening nonetheless.

 

[Vault101]

and since he put in so much effort, and since it brings some new (albeit small) stuff to the table I think it deserves a look...

No, no it doesn't. It's still tripe, even if it's anal, minutia-laden tripe.

Come on, folks. Pro or against the indoctrination theory, just admit: Bioware doesn't make good stories. Your expectations were built up in your head and NOTHING can compare.

why?

with indoctriantion theory everything makes sense

without it...NOTHING makes sense

does that make it true? no of coarse not..does it make it interesting? damn right it does, the ending might be bad but it gave way to all this speculation, somthing "good" came out of it at least

liek I said, Im only "skeptical" becas=use I think its just that unlikley some so brilliant could be true, but that doesnt mean I dont enjoy looking into it

and it has NOTHING to do with expectations, no matter how high low or normal your expectations were the ending jsut fucks with you in so many ways...the fact that it goes against lore as well...

...untill Bioware comes out with its DLC I just cant take the ending at facr vaule, its just too non-sensical

so in other words, why try and rain on people parade? (other than the fact yoru sick of ME3 threads)

 

[Vault101]

I think that it's pretty clear that they *intended* for indoctrination to play SOME part in it, or at least had it very heavily considered as an option.

There are just too many things that wouldn't make sense to have without indoctrination.

I feel like they probably ditched it at the behest of that talentless lead hack. Probably.

there was the poper ending involving dark matter (and I think th use of mass relays slowly destroying the universe) but they ditched that...so I dont know

 

[chadachada123]

I think that it's pretty clear that they *intended* for indoctrination to play SOME part in it, or at least had it very heavily considered as an option.

There are just too many things that wouldn't make sense to have without indoctrination.

I feel like they probably ditched it at the behest of that talentless lead hack. Probably.

there was the poper ending involving dark matter (and I think th use of mass relays slowly destroying the universe) but they ditched that...so I dont know

I totally forgot about that one.

That ending seems pretty good, but still somewhat misguided, since they are slaughtering billions in order to...save...billions...or something...

I liked reading about it though, heh.

 

[370999]

and since he put in so much effort, and since it brings some new (albeit small) stuff to the table I think it deserves a look...

No, no it doesn't. It's still tripe, even if it's anal, minutia-laden tripe.

Come on, folks. Pro or against the indoctrination theory, just admit: Bioware doesn't make good stories. Your expectations were built up in your head and NOTHING can compare.

why?

with indoctriantion theory everything makes sense

without it...NOTHING makes sense

does that make it true? no of coarse not..does it make it interesting? damn right it does, the ending might be bad but it gave way to all this speculation, somthing "good" came out of it at least

liek I said, Im only "skeptical" becas=use I think its just that unlikley some so brilliant could be true, but that doesnt mean I dont enjoy looking into it

and it has NOTHING to do with expectations, no matter how high low or normal your expectations were the ending jsut fucks with you in so many ways...the fact that it goes against lore as well...

...untill Bioware comes out with its DLC I just cant take the ending at facr vaule, its just too non-sensical

so in other words, why try and rain on people parade? (other than the fact yoru sick of ME3 threads)

With indoc theory, what is the actual ending? Can you not see how horribly horribly inconclusive it is to not only say "It was all a dream" but to not even bother with that and just imply it, to end the story before the hero wakes up?

Everything only makes sense if you work on the premise that nothing will make sense because of indoctrination, it is entirely recursive and artificial, where it devolves into grabbing what fits and just using the blanket term of "indoctrination" to force everything to fit together.

So yeah, it's better then the actual ending. But it really isn't a good thing. It was all a dream should be avoided as much as possible.

 

[pure.Wasted]

Not so hot on the indoctrination ending.

To quote Shamus Young:

I think that would be better than the ending we got, but I don?t think it it was ever intended by the writers. This theory involves an incredible level of subtle symbolism, which goes against just how ham-fisted the rest of the story is. To wit: If these writers thought Shepard was indoctrinated in the last stage of the game, we would know it.

Still, love all the investigating and whatnot going into all this. Seeing so many people really get into a game's story and lore is great to see. Wish it happened more often, but I'm glad it's happening nonetheless.

I don't know who this Shamus Young person is, but that's exactly my point.

Which isn't to say that "ham-fisted" is necessarily a bad thing in and of itself. I'd argue that Chris Nolan is a very ham-fisted director, and that hasn't stopped him from producing some of the best films of the last decade.

 

[Vault101]

With indoc theory, what is the actual ending? Can you not see how horribly horribly inconclusive it is to not only say "It was all a dream" but to not even bother with that and just imply it, to end the story before the hero wakes up?

Everything only makes sense if you work on the premise that nothing will make sense because of indoctrination, it is entirely recursive and artificial, where it devolves into grabbing what fits and just using the blanket term of "indoctrination" to force everything to fit together.

So yeah, it's better then the actual ending. But it really isn't a good thing. It was all a dream should be avoided as much as possible.

I think the Idea is that shepard "wakes up" and then runs off to go do the REAL ending..(new ending DLC?)

the 1# I dont get is shepards "waking up" scene just before the credits roll

that said though, its still up in the air waether or nor this new "DLC" will do anything, all we can hope for is answers

 

[LHZA]

Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.

1. Sound effects are sound effects.

2. Dreams are dreams. recurring nightmares are common.

3. Transitions are transitions. They are reused time and time again.

4. blurred eyesight is a common trope. Its atmosphere, a tactic to limit the draw on the computer.

5. The change in distance is just laziness.

6. a pre-determined armor at the beam is a time constraint. making different textures for the same armor is easy. Making it for the very end sequence would serve no purpose. It would be easier to say the paint was burned off. Even the GUNS are different in cutscenes. The dead bodies are a design oversight.

7. The bodies are there because the game itself explained they beamed the bodies up into the citadel. Not only that, but repeat models in piles are a common way to save time in development. Don't believe me? Look at the MANY piles of bodies in Left 4 dead 1 & 2. If valve cant make everything unique, then Bioware cant. You won't even notice it anyway.

Know what? I am going to stop right here. Its just fallacy after fallacy.

I mean really. Is it not sad enough that the ending of ME3 was bad? Must we pull conspiracy theories out of our collective asses so we may delude ourselves that it was something brooding and deep?

Must we be in denial?

Bioware dropped the literary ball on its series's defining moment. That's all there is to it. Now can we please move on?

Come on! I think the indoctrination theory is unlikely as well but I can still appreciate how well thought out it is. Also I think it's pretty cool people are debating it and such. People are really into it and whether Bioware intended for that to happen or not, it's still pretty cool, and I've never heard of this happening for any other game. Let the people who believe it have their fun. Why get so worked up about it?

 

[idarkphoenixi]

Cue thread covering the same stuff already covered ages ago.

Pretty sure the bloke who made the video should really just let it go.

Seeing as it's the length of the average movie I'm pretty sure he was making this during the very hight of the ending issue. Lucky for him people will still eat this stuff up.

 

[Glademaster_v1legacy]

I've said this in every IT thread(I will look at this video tomorrow) but it really smacks of FF VIII Dream Theory trying to make sense of the plot post disc 2. Many things brought up could easily just have been bad writing, hallmarks of the genre, constraints of the system or maybe it was something dropped at the end of development.

That is the only evidence I have seen come out of IT and it really hasn't done anything for me unlike Marauder Shields. Now I don't know if people here know of FF VIII's Dream Theory but to me they seem quite similar with their justifications which is why they fall short in my books.

 

[FilipJPhry]

Holy crap, I'm gonna have to save this thread for tomorrow, when I have a bottle of vodka and some grapes. I cancelled my preorder thanks to EA's aggravating tactics and no longer care for spoilers. I am interested how this plays out.

 

[Vault101]

....yeah

how does one defeat "dark energy"?....like is it even a thing? the Idea isnt bad but you cant just run off and "defeat" somthing

like me saying I need to "defeat" sunshine or I need to "defeat" the black hole

 

[boag]

Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.
7. The bodies are there because the game itself explained they beamed the bodies up into the citadel. Not only that, but repeat models in piles are a common way to save time in development. Don't believe me? Look at the MANY piles of bodies in Left 4 dead 1 & 2. If valve cant make everything unique, then Bioware cant. You won't even notice it anyway.

Know what? I am going to stop right here. Its just fallacy after fallacy.

I mean really. Is it not sad enough that the ending of ME3 was bad? Must we pull conspiracy theories out of our collective asses so we may delude ourselves that it was something brooding and deep?

Must we be in denial?

Bioware dropped the literary ball on its series's defining moment. That's all there is to it. Now can we please move on?

I foudn the bodies thign creepy..they werent there before..and when have we seen pheonix armour post ME1? (the reapeat models is no surprised given its a agme) but those bodies definetly seem out of place (last night the whole thign actually creeped me out)

the ONLY thing that makes me unsure about "IT" is that it would jsut be a little to brilliant to be true...even then your coutner argument isnt anymore convincing than arguments for "IT"

I understand people are sick of talking about ME3, but true ot not I find this stuff absolutly facinating

Cue thread covering the same stuff already covered ages ago.

Pretty sure the bloke who made the video should really just let it go.

he wont let it go as long as he keeps getting views in the millions, which means people arent ready to let it go either.

Cue thread covering the same stuff already covered ages ago.

Pretty sure the bloke who made the video should really just let it go.

its not about "letting go" I'm not spending my time sitting in my room being angry and crying over the nding..no I've moved on like most people have

but becuase Im "fan" I love this kind of stuff...this is better than jsut analyzing charachters and themes

to put it another way, this shit is actually FUN

oh, I whole heartily agree, I enjoy these videos as well, I just wish the red letter media guys would do more so that other people dont start to fill in the spot they leave open.

 

[Vault101]

No clue, which is why as bad as the current ending is, it still makes a LITTLE more sense.

The way I see it is perhaps the Reapers are "saving" races by preserving their genetics in reaper form to survive the eventual dark matter explosion or whatever. But I still prefer not knowing anything about the reapers in the first place.

hat was the human reaper going to do? "fly" into the dark matter...oh I have the mental image now

[i/] a sad reprise of "leaving earth" plays as the Reapinator flys out towards the dark matter, arms outstretched skeletal jaw hanging open in a smile, shepard and anderson watch on..the reapinator enters the dark matter crying "HOPE! we still have hope!" there is a bring flash of light , a blue "explosion" sweeps through but harms no one..Anderson sheds a tear..he..he dies..for us shepard says "his sacrifice wont be forgotten..." [/i]

 

[pure.Wasted]

....yeah

how does one defeat "dark energy"?....like is it even a thing? the Idea isnt bad but you cant just run off and "defeat" somthing

like me saying I need to "defeat" sunshine or I need to "defeat" the black hole

And yet half of the civilized world got in an uproar over combating global warming.

If someone told me the universe was going to end a week from now, I know I wouldn't be able to do much, but I'd do what I could. Meaning send all my money to NASA and hope they can figure this out. If not, it doesn't really matter, does it?

The Reapers don't need money. They need your genetic material. Whether this will definitely create a solution or not is still up in the air, but they seem advanced enough that... if some chemical reaction that would put a stop to this dark energy process is possible, they're the ones who are capable of figuring it out.