Mass Effect 3, Indoctrination theory (new and extended)

[Vault101]

[snip.

I know, it was probably poor wording (no offence to undeadsuitor) but a single human reaper "defeating the dark energy" doesnt make a whole lot of sense

 

[gbemery]

I know you guys don't want anymore Mass effect 3 threads, I know the horse no longer exists but instead has been sumoned and destroyed in every spiritual/physical way and that it is no longer a horse but a horse shaped black hole that is sucking everything in around it

But what now am I suppose to beat to a pulp with this stick?


captcha: hobby-horse

XD

 

[ResonanceSD]

Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.

"I'm going to create a conspiracy theory to explain why the ending was shit rather than accept the fact that the devs got lazy and admitted to as much during the design of the conclusion".

Sounds like Biodrones alright.

 

[ResonanceSD]

EDIT: Double posted -_-'

 

[Vanitas likes Bubbles]

It's just a coincidence y'know. This is just for people that try so hard to admit that the ending was a failure. I've moved on from Mass Effect anyway, I've got back into my comfy Kingdom Hearts phase.

 

[Kestrel-6]

Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.

1. Sound effects are sound effects.

2. Dreams are dreams. recurring nightmares are common.

3. Transitions are transitions. They are reused time and time again.

4. blurred eyesight is a common trope. Its atmosphere, a tactic to limit the draw on the computer.

5. The change in distance is just laziness.

6. a pre-determined armor at the beam is a time constraint. making different textures for the same armor is easy. Making it for the very end sequence would serve no purpose. It would be easier to say the paint was burned off. Even the GUNS are different in cutscenes. The dead bodies are a design oversight.

7. The bodies are there because the game itself explained they beamed the bodies up into the citadel. Not only that, but repeat models in piles are a common way to save time in development. Don't believe me? Look at the MANY piles of bodies in Left 4 dead 1 & 2. If valve cant make everything unique, then Bioware cant. You won't even notice it anyway.

Know what? I am going to stop right here. Its just fallacy after fallacy.

I mean really. Is it not sad enough that the ending of ME3 was bad? Must we pull conspiracy theories out of our collective asses so we may delude ourselves that it was something brooding and deep?

Must we be in denial?

Bioware dropped the literary ball on its series's defining moment. That's all there is to it. Now can we please move on?

Maybe you're indoctrinated...

 

[Vault101]

Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.

"I'm going to create a conspiracy theory to explain why the ending was shit rather than accept the fact that the devs got lazy and admitted to as much during the design of the conclusion".

Sounds like Biodrones alright.

"I can be angry about the whole thing or I could just wait and see what bioware comes up with and in the mean time amuse amuself with this theory"

theres a high possibility it was a screw up at the end due to cuts and lack of time

but the theory is still interesting and has some merit, whats the harm anyway? fucking haters seem to want to rain on everyone parade

 

[ResonanceSD]

Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.

"I'm going to create a conspiracy theory to explain why the ending was shit rather than accept the fact that the devs got lazy and admitted to as much during the design of the conclusion".

Sounds like Biodrones alright.

"I can be angry about the whole thing or I could just wait and see what bioware comes up with and in the mean time amuse amuself with this theory"

theres a high possibility it was a screw up at the end due to cuts and lack of time

but the theory is still interesting and has some merit, whats the harm anyway? fucking haters seem to want to rain on everyone parade

Or you could just recognise it for what it actually is, EA screwing up yet another franchise (learn what pattern recognition is and how to use it), forget it and move on. It's not the first studio EA has killed with crap, it won't be the last. Get over it.

Alternatively, imagine the CEO of EA's voice emanating from the head of Bioware with ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

 

[Forgetitnow344]

I've said this in every IT thread(I will look at this video tomorrow) but it really smacks of FF VIII Dream Theory trying to make sense of the plot post disc 2. Many things brought up could easily just have been bad writing, hallmarks of the genre, constraints of the system or maybe it was something dropped at the end of development.

That is the only evidence I have seen come out of IT and it really hasn't done anything for me unlike Marauder Shields. Now I don't know if people here know of FF VIII's Dream Theory but to me they seem quite similar with their justifications which is why they fall short in my books.

Dream Theory was absurd. I was 10 when I played FF8 and the plot made plenty of sense to me then. It wasn't amazing or beautiful, but all the LEGOs physically fit together, and my immature tastes said, "Ok," and I enjoyed the game for what it was. I wasn't confused and I didn't call bullshit. Ultimecia compressed time and we fought her in this big ancient future castle and then after one of the most absurdly long boss fights in the JRPG genre, everything was dandy. I've never looked back on it and gone, "Now the story would get way better if-" No. It wouldn't. If the game had come right out and said, "Yes, Squall, you are dead," and worked it into a "logical" setting like saying his heart passion in his soul's purgatory or whatever helped to defeat Edea from beyond the grave. I accepted that the power of friendship helped the SeeD exist in a state of compressed time, so I'm sure I'd be cool with it.

But Indoctrination Theory fixes problems. There are some aspects of the game that make absurdly little sense and there's no way anyone saw that and went, "oh the fans will love it!" It slipped through the cracks (somehow) and is a shoddy piece of writing and continuity, and believing in the Indoctrination Theory wraps everything up in a sensible package.

Do I actually think the IT is what Bioware had in mind? Absolutely not. They just fucked up. Does thinking that my Shepard survived indoctrination because I stayed true to the mission and didn't waver when faced with lies from the mouths of the very enemy make me feel better about it all? Hell yes.

 

[Vault101]

Or you could just recognise it for what it actually is, EA screwing up yet another franchise (learn what pattern recognition is and how to use it), forget it and move on. It's not the first studio EA has killed with crap, it won't be the last. Get over it.

Alternatively, imagine the CEO of EA's voice emanating from the head of Bioware with ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL.

WAHT exactally do I need to move on from? I have "moved on"

you know what Im doing? you know what alot of the other fans are doing? were having FUN..this shit right here over-analyzing..its facinating

the fact is the answer is coming, this isnt over, whats going to heppn? can Bioware slavage this mess? were they trolling all along? will it jsut create anotehr shit storm? who knows..but I can't wait to see what happens

In the meantime..I still like ME3, not even the ending changes that

EDIT: and you you knwo what your essentially saying? STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!!

 

[GameMaNiAC]

I watched it and I still fully support indoctrination theory.

I'm not looking forward to the extended dlc to be perfectly honest,but it will be funny to see how they will dig their hole deeper with the explanations regarding the presumably unchanged ending.

I agree with this. And I also fully support the indoctrination theory. Things would make a lot more sense if they went with it. But they don't seem to be doing it, so this might be just one of those fan dreams that will never come true.

I don't care, though, the indoctrination is canon for my Shepard. After he resisted, he woke up and kicked some Reaper ass and everyone was cheering his name. Then he went to Rannoch and lived happily ever after with Tali. And had a beer with Garrus and Vega.

If you need a video longer than the ending itself to explain the ending, you have failed.

I don't get it. Why is it a failure, again? Because it's longer than the ending itself? What?

 

[Jitters Caffeine]

Fan theories are almost always great. The Indoctrination Theory is just a great example of what fans will go through and how deep they'll go to get the answers they want.

 

[endtherapture]

Not a bad watch.

The bodies thing is new to me, very creepy. Bioware already had body textures to use from ME2 and they didn't use them, so it can't be put down to laziness?

Shame he didn't mention James' comment about the "buzzing" in the Normandy.

I wish IT was true, but I honestly don't think Bioware had the writing chops to think of it

 

[StormShaun]

Not a bad watch.

The bodies thing is new to me, very creepy. Bioware already had body textures to use from ME2 and they didn't use them, so it can't be put down to laziness?

Shame he didn't mention James' comment about the "buzzing" in the Normandy.

I wish IT was true, but I honestly don't think Bioware had the writing chops to think of it

Wait, I thought he did mention the "humming" on the Normandy. You saw that scene early in the video.

And I think half and half, Bioware might of put this in for us and we'll find out and then they will give us a better ending. Or it's just total bad story and a quick chop ending due to EA.

I say Bioware shouldn't care but they should just give us a good ending. D:<

Hell we deserve it after three games.

 

[endtherapture]

Not a bad watch.

The bodies thing is new to me, very creepy. Bioware already had body textures to use from ME2 and they didn't use them, so it can't be put down to laziness?

Shame he didn't mention James' comment about the "buzzing" in the Normandy.

I wish IT was true, but I honestly don't think Bioware had the writing chops to think of it

Wait, I thought he did mention the "humming" on the Normandy. You saw that scene early in the video.

And I think half and half, Bioware might of put this in for us and we'll find out and then they will give us a better ending. Or it's just total bad story and a quick chop ending due to EA.

I say Bioware shouldn't care but they should just give us a good ending. D:<

Hell we deserve it after three games.

I just hope the new DLC will continue the game. In an ideal world, if you chose Synthesis/Control you'll take over an indoctrinated Shepard and finish the fight for the Reapers, killing your friends and teammates. If you chose control you can finish the fight actually.

If there's no gameplay that will just be lazy, they have the entire ME3 team to call upon for this DLC and a good few months to make stuff, so it better be good. If The Witcher 2 team can release free DLCs with significant gameplay portions, so can Bioware.

 

[Vault101]

That would've been a worse ending. A blatantly bad ending, instead of the vague bad ending we got. If the relays were slowly tearing apart the universe why did THE REAPERS MAKE THEM?!

so aliens could adancace..so they could harvest...so they could stop organics from creating synthetics...to stop synthetics wiping out organics....soo.....fucked if I know (mabye the universe needs a recovery period)

Fan theories are almost always great. The Indoctrination Theory is just a great example of what fans will go through and how deep they'll go to get the answers they want.

well thats nicer than "GET OVER IT AND STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE!!!" answers

Not a bad watch.

The bodies thing is new to me, very creepy. Bioware already had body textures to use from ME2 and they didn't use them, so it can't be put down to laziness?

Shame he didn't mention James' comment about the "buzzing" in the Normandy.

I wish IT was true, but I honestly don't think Bioware had the writing chops to think of it

I think he did..or at least showed a small clip of it

yeah..that creeped me out...they hardly even looked like bodies, I think I may have even noticed some bodies wearing pheonix armour that looked out of place (in the "citadel") but Im not sure

interestingly i think in ME1 (please correct if wrong) when you actually have to choose your squad member to die no matter what you outfitted them with they will be wearing their default armour in that once scene...weird, but I doubt its related,just a technical issue probably

I just hope the new DLC will continue the game. In an ideal world, if you chose Synthesis/Control you'll take over an indoctrinated Shepard and finish the fight for the Reapers, killing your friends and teammates. If you chose control you can finish the fight actually.

If there's no gameplay that will just be lazy, they have the entire ME3 team to call upon for this DLC and a good few months to make stuff, so it better be good. If The Witcher 2 team can release free DLCs with significant gameplay portions, so can Bioware.

Id be thankful for ANYTHING as long as it was decent....even not having acontrol of an indoctrinated shepard as he/she offs your love interest would be brutal

 

[Vault101]

Hell we deserve it after three games.

ENTITLED!!!!!!!....just kidding

 

[370999]

With indoc theory, what is the actual ending? Can you not see how horribly horribly inconclusive it is to not only say "It was all a dream" but to not even bother with that and just imply it, to end the story before the hero wakes up?

Everything only makes sense if you work on the premise that nothing will make sense because of indoctrination, it is entirely recursive and artificial, where it devolves into grabbing what fits and just using the blanket term of "indoctrination" to force everything to fit together.

So yeah, it's better then the actual ending. But it really isn't a good thing. It was all a dream should be avoided as much as possible.

I think the Idea is that shepard "wakes up" and then runs off to go do the REAL ending..(new ending DLC?)

the 1# I dont get is shepards "waking up" scene just before the credits roll

that said though, its still up in the air waether or nor this new "DLC" will do anything, all we can hope for is answers

#

Except sadly Vault we know that isn't going to happen, the ending is going to be "expanded upon". Uggghhh.

So yeah what you seem to mean here is that the indoc theory is very much dependent on their being a DLC ending released that accepted it's premise and then worked on from their.

At the moment that seems unlikely so it's a huge point against the theory.

 

[Apollo45]

Bull fucking shit. The indoctrination theory is just mental gymnastics in a vain attempt to see something that isn't there.

1. Sound effects are sound effects.

2. Dreams are dreams. recurring nightmares are common.

3. Transitions are transitions. They are reused time and time again.

4. blurred eyesight is a common trope. Its atmosphere, a tactic to limit the draw on the computer.

5. The change in distance is just laziness.

6. a pre-determined armor at the beam is a time constraint. making different textures for the same armor is easy. Making it for the very end sequence would serve no purpose. It would be easier to say the paint was burned off. Even the GUNS are different in cutscenes. The dead bodies are a design oversight.

7. The bodies are there because the game itself explained they beamed the bodies up into the citadel. Not only that, but repeat models in piles are a common way to save time in development. Don't believe me? Look at the MANY piles of bodies in Left 4 dead 1 & 2. If valve cant make everything unique, then Bioware cant. You won't even notice it anyway.

Know what? I am going to stop right here. Its just fallacy after fallacy.

I mean really. Is it not sad enough that the ending of ME3 was bad? Must we pull conspiracy theories out of our collective asses so we may delude ourselves that it was something brooding and deep?

Must we be in denial?

Bioware dropped the literary ball on its series's defining moment. That's all there is to it. Now can we please move on?

The thing is, for a good writer, all of those things can be used to convey something. Whether that's a point, or foreshadowing for a twist, or anything like that. For a good writer, these things would be the perfect visual cues to hint at exactly what the Indoctrination Theory is.

Unfortunately, I don't think BioWare realized that when they were making these. It really was just laziness that was so bad it ended up very nearly becoming good again, if they had only taken a moment to see exactly what they were making.

 

[Vault101]

Except sadly Vault we know that isn't going to happen, the ending is going to be "expanded upon". Uggghhh.

So yeah what you seem to mean here is that the indoc theory is very much dependent on their being a DLC ending released that accepted it's premise and then worked on from their.

At the moment that seems unlikely so it's a huge point against the theory.

"expanded upon" could mean anything....if I were to go out on a limb I'd say the fact is WTIHOUT indoctrination the thing seems an unsalvagle mess in terms of plot holes and making sense...which "in a way" could mean something for the theory

but as you said, and as Ive said time and time again...its too good to be true

.

Unfortunately, I don't think BioWare realized that when they were making these. It really was just laziness that was so bad it ended up very nearly becoming good again, if they had only taken a moment to see exactly what they were making.

it seems waay too specific for thease screw ups to be unintentional...the possvbility that they fucked up so bad they almost created somthing amazing..well its somthing allright