Mass Effect 3: The movement

[Abedeus]

I have to wonder how they'll explain the plot holes, lack of logic in GodChild's dialog and breaking multiple already established pieces of lore (like, there is no teleportation in ME, mass relays are instantaneous and can't be "outrun" by anything as show in cinematic, characters who died in Harbinger attack miraculously survive and end up on Normandy...) and of course, characters who were loyal to you for the past few years suddenly betray you and basically commit treason.

*Sigh. Just because they didn't explain it to you in game doesn't mean it's a plot hole. Instead of complaining that you have to ask why things happened you could actually think about it.

Magic. Got it.

Garrus died in the assault, then he's magically on Normandy.

Joker decided to leg it from the most important battle in the history of mankind (and probably current galactic civilizations altogether).

He crashlanded, but somehow survived despite having freaking brittle bones.

God-AI claims that synthetics and organics can't coexist, and yet on Rannoch Geth and Quarians are living peacefully.

And they somehow managed to drop the "Dark Energy" theme in favor of philosophical bullshit that is contradictory as hell on at least two accounts. Synthetics didn't rebel against creators - they were either defending themselves or, IRONICALLY, being controlled by Reapers, Sovereign specifically.

Not to mention the fucking "Yo dawg" about killing organics to save us... And green ending is pure fantasy. Not even science fiction, just space magic.

The endings really aren't that complicated or deep. They're just rushed, unfinished and unpolished. And filled with multiple holes.

 

[irishda]

I'm pretty sure the phrase "Happy Ending" here is referring to the players' state of mind after the ending.

Not so sure about that, one of the bigger journalists' criticisms of 'Retake ME3' is that they weren't satisfied with the bleakness of the ending and wanted a 'happy' ending. Considering that it's much easier to interpret the comic that way and without any qualification otherwise it comes off as such.

I haven't seen it as one of the bigger criticisms. It's been a criticism of course, but only because that's what some people have complained about. There's not complete solidarity within Retake that I think a lot of people assume. There's a lot of different reasons people didn't like the ending, and they don't just boil down to

-our decisions didn't matter
-illogical

I have seen comments even here on the Escapist of people who were mad because all their work was for naught and they didn't get a perfect, happy ending.

Personally, I laugh at the irony of so many people yelling at critical writers with the line, "It's not about the happy ending; they don't get it", when these people are either willfully simplifying the criticisms of Retake or they themselves just "don't get it".

 

[Phlakes]

Magic. Got it.

Garrus died in the assault, then he's magically on Normandy.

Joker decided to leg it from the most important battle in the history of mankind (and probably current galactic civilizations altogether).

He crashlanded, but somehow survived despite having freaking brittle bones.

God-AI claims that synthetics and organics can't coexist, and yet on Rannoch Geth and Quarians are living peacefully.

And they somehow managed to drop the "Dark Energy" theme in favor of philosophical bullshit that is contradictory as hell on at least two accounts. Synthetics didn't rebel against creators - they were either defending themselves or, IRONICALLY, being controlled by Reapers, Sovereign specifically.

Not to mention the fucking "Yo dawg" about killing organics to save us... And green ending is pure fantasy. Not even science fiction, just space magic.

The endings really aren't that complicated or deep. They're just rushed, unfinished and unpolished. And filled with multiple holes.

*Harder sigh. If you really can't come up with a reasonable explanation for those, it's not bad writing, it's you being ignorant.

 

[irishda]

God-AI claims that synthetics and organics can't coexist, and yet on Rannoch Geth and Quarians are living peacefully.

I always hate that claim. "These guys are fine, therefore they can live together." It seems rather short-sighted.

They're living peacefully FOR NOW. But how long before another war is touched off between the two? Further, unlike two organics killing each for dominance, synthetics have no such need for symbiotic relationships with their natural environments. With synthetics as dominant life forms, there'd be no need to retain organic life form, as the synthetics aren't reliant on them. The argument could be made that Geth have been keeping Rannoch preserved, but if they're of the mindset of eliminating threats to themselves, there's no reason they wouldn't just eradicate all organic life with the idea that all organic life could evolve as a threat to them.

 

[Qitz]

So what happens if you'd prefer more of a downer ending? They bring out the knives?

Also, is that Erin in panel 4? Her stripes vanished... SHE'S A WITCH!

A WITCH! A WITCH! BUUUUUURRRRN HER!!

Burn her? Don't you people know ANYTHING. To prove one is a Witch you must FIRST, weigh her against a duck. Then you can burn her.

Oh please! To tell a witch from a normal person: put it in water. If it floats it is indeed a witch. If she drowns then she was a genuine laddeh.
EDIT: POST COUNT 666! I SHALL POST NEVERMORE!

Spoiler: NO YOU!

And there you have it.

if($witch.weight == $duck.weight) {
$witch.status == true;
$witch.burn;
}else {
$witch.status == $false;
}

 

[Abedeus]

Magic. Got it.

Garrus died in the assault, then he's magically on Normandy.

Joker decided to leg it from the most important battle in the history of mankind (and probably current galactic civilizations altogether).

He crashlanded, but somehow survived despite having freaking brittle bones.

God-AI claims that synthetics and organics can't coexist, and yet on Rannoch Geth and Quarians are living peacefully.

And they somehow managed to drop the "Dark Energy" theme in favor of philosophical bullshit that is contradictory as hell on at least two accounts. Synthetics didn't rebel against creators - they were either defending themselves or, IRONICALLY, being controlled by Reapers, Sovereign specifically.

Not to mention the fucking "Yo dawg" about killing organics to save us... And green ending is pure fantasy. Not even science fiction, just space magic.

The endings really aren't that complicated or deep. They're just rushed, unfinished and unpolished. And filled with multiple holes.

*Harder sigh. If you really can't come up with a reasonable explanation for those, it's not bad writing, it's you being ignorant.

It's not for me to rationalize plotholes. If the storywrited does some stupid shit that nobody can explain without breaking lore (like, teleporting team members to Normandy while they were on Earth or dead a second ago, or running away from battle by Joker), then it's not the audience's fault.

Unless YOU can explain to me, how teleportation, Joker's sudden change from "To grave and beyond!" to "LOL IM OUTTA HERE SHEPARD MUST'VE DIED THERE LOL" and of course resurrection of team mates work...

God-AI claims that synthetics and organics can't coexist, and yet on Rannoch Geth and Quarians are living peacefully.

I always hate that claim. "These guys are fine, therefore they can live together." It seems rather short-sighted.

They're living peacefully FOR NOW. But how long before another war is touched off between the two? Further, unlike two organics killing each for dominance, synthetics have no such need for symbiotic relationships with their natural environments. With synthetics as dominant life forms, there'd be no need to retain organic life form, as the synthetics aren't reliant on them. The argument could be made that Geth have been keeping Rannoch preserved, but if they're of the mindset of eliminating threats to themselves, there's no reason they wouldn't just eradicate all organic life with the idea that all organic life could evolve as a threat to them.

Well right back at you, I hate this claim too. "Just because the God-Child once or twice saw AI being bad doesn't mean they can't live together." I mean seriously, that's like people killing off entire breeds or dogs (or people) because "some of them acted badly in the past". I'm pretty sure I don't like, bah, I hate when people judge my rottweiler as evil or beastly because they have an opinion of a rabid breed. But my dog is the sweetest beast I've ever seen in my life. So why should anyone judge her based on what a rottweiler did years before she was born?

Same here - Geth were never hostile on their own, without Quarian aggression. If you punish someone for "what they might do" it's like "pre-venge", i.e. completely pointless. Hell, that's why the entire war started - Quarians were afraid Geth will rebel, so they tried to destroyed them, and... Geth threw them out of Rannoch in self-defense.

Point is - God-Child AI said that AI always goes rogue and tries to kill synthetics. EDI and Geth are perfect proof that AI isn't different from organics when it comes to politics.

 

[lacktheknack]

ITT: People taking a fecking webcomic too seriously.

 

[Dr Jones]

So what happens if you'd prefer more of a downer ending? They bring out the knives?

Also, is that Erin in panel 4? Her stripes vanished... SHE'S A WITCH!

A WITCH! A WITCH! BUUUUUURRRRN HER!!

Burn her? Don't you people know ANYTHING. To prove one is a Witch you must FIRST, weigh her against a duck. Then you can burn her.

Oh please! To tell a witch from a normal person: put it in water. If it floats it is indeed a witch. If she drowns then she was a genuine laddeh.
EDIT: POST COUNT 666! I SHALL POST NEVERMORE!

Spoiler: NO YOU!

I banish myself to the southeast corner of the earth for not getting that reference the first time.. Though is it a deleted scene? I don't remember seeing it when i recently saw the flick :/

And there you have it.

if($witch.weight == $duck.weight) {
$witch.status == true;
$witch.burn;
}else {
$witch.status == $false;
}

 

[antipunt]

I suddenly remembered why I read Critical Miss.

It's because of strips like these

 

[TheMann]

On one hand: Another comic about Mass Effect? Seriously, just when I thought all the bullshit surrounding that game was dying down.

On the other hand: Okay, I admit, that one was actually pretty damn funny.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

I have to wonder how they'll explain the plot holes, lack of logic in GodChild's dialog and breaking multiple already established pieces of lore (like, there is no teleportation in ME, mass relays are instantaneous and can't be "outrun" by anything as show in cinematic, characters who died in Harbinger attack miraculously survive and end up on Normandy...) and of course, characters who were loyal to you for the past few years suddenly betray you and basically commit treason.

*Sigh. Just because they didn't explain it to you in game doesn't mean it's a plot hole. Instead of complaining that you have to ask why things happened you could actually think about it.

Not really. Even if you do think about it and rationalise the Reapers whole "We must kill you so others like us won't possibly one day kill you.", (and yes you can think of a "good" reason why the Reapers are using circular logic, I came up with a few myself), that still doesn't make it good logic, and so it still doesn't make sense.

BioWare doesn't HAVE to change the ending of their story. However, using bad logic can't be dismissed simply because you, me, or someone not actually telling the Mass Effect story can come up with a better reason than "Well, just cause." BioWare are story tellers. Their job is to tell us (the audience) the story. If they say something that doesn't make sense, or isn't explained it is our job to call them on it.

They don't even technically have to explain it through the game even, that's just the most convenient (and NICE) way. They could just explain it to us through words straight from their mouths (or more likely keyboards). Yes, they have no legal obligation to do anything a all. They could send out a 20 second video on their site that just is a black screen with words in white saying, "We have nothing to tell ya.", but should they?

I don't see that as a good move. This is my view of the situation. You need never change yours.

 

[Beryl77]

The comic is pretty good, your comment underneath it... not so much.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Mass Effect 3: The movement

You dirty bird, Bioware, how could you?

Read Full Article

Note: Apologies for the typo in the news blurb. The rest of the Escapist staff appear to have fucked off to PAX, so no one is around to fix it.

Hey thanks again for answering my very hard question, and for you know, all the nice words and pretty pictures we get each week.

I just have some more that have been in my head for a bit. Oh and anyone reading this who isn't Grey Carter like the one before, Fuck off!.....Ha ha just kidding. Anyone reading feel free to answer as you see fit.

Now I must warn you I may be working on bad/incomplete information. If anyone knows the whole story, tell me, and just answer the question as a hypothetical. Okay, the question set up.

Now as I have heard the story goes like this; BioWare had different ending to the one we have currently, (Now and forever. Oh well.), but they had to change it because a vague description of it got leaked to the web. Now I know what your thinking, and no this ending probably wouldn't have been perfect either (unless maybe they included an epilogue with it). Remember that dark energy stuff Tali said was probably nothing? Well it was suppose to be the reason the Reapers were killing us. Apparently making Reapers was suppose to stop the dark energy from making all the stars die thus dooming all life in the galaxy pretty much forever.

Now while I think that is waaaaaay better than "We kill you so others like us won't maybe in the future.", it on its own isn't perfect, and has a few plot holes itself. For example; why do they need (higher)thinking creatures to make a reaper instead of like cows or pyjacks, or what are they doing while they wait for us to evolve? Just sitting in darkspace instead of finding or making a new way to stop this without killing everyone?

Anyway now for the question. Remember if my information is off just answer as a hypothetical question.

So if this is so, then BioWare has already changed the ending of ME3 for the fans, I say "for the fans" because I don't see how people

knowing the ending will affect them personally except by some people not buying the game because they knew how it ends, but I would

like to hope BioWare did it just because, you know, they didn't want the ending to be spoiled for the fans. I mean what could go wrong.

The fans get a ending and BioWare doesn't have to worry about losing potential customers/future fans. Problem solved, and as one
famous team on our beloved Escapist once said many times, (Doomsday Arcade), I can see no other possible outcome. Hmmm. You

think maybe they said that outloud? Oh well, I digress. If they have changed the ending once before then why can they not do it once

again of their free will. Because yes while they have had a lot of people asking, telling, and downright demanding they change the end

they don't have to and seem to have chosen not to (if what we have heard about the up and coming dlc is true, and I think it is). Yes this
time we have people asking them to do it, but would that really change anything if they have already been taking action to change things
that would possibly upset us?

I will submit that even if this would not change a already made precedent it could make one stronger.

Also, if that question isn't to your tastes, how about the one after the next one? Or this one?

(This one will HAVE to be a hypothetical question sadly.) What if no one ever asked, told, or demanded in words "BioWare change ME3's ending."? All the talk about the ending being bad would stay the same, but no one would have ever talked about actually changing the ending. Except for anyone at BioWare, obviously. Would it then be ok?

Ok that's it for now thanks to anyone who read, even if you chose not to answer.

Have a good day.

 

[wintercoat]

Dude...this thread is working towards a singularity or something. It's people bitching about people bitching about the people bitching at the people who bitched at people for bitching. If we don't stop the exponential bitching, it'll form a black hole of bitching...a bitchhole if you will. Then we're all just fucked man.

Also, fuck the Chevy Sonic.

 

[Joccaren]

Of course, a lot of people don't understand it. The general consensus is that issues have little to do with a happy ending, a claim that many of the journalists and pundits are claiming that's what people are looking for.

Kinda like what your comic did. I didn't give a damn about the banner in the comic, because it was funny. But then I read the text below, and that kind of makes it ugly.

What people are saying:
-They were promised player choices through the series impacting the end, which they didn't get.
-The ending doesn't make sense and has a large number of holes.

What the people criticizing retake are saying:
-Spoiled, entitled crybabies are upset because they are not getting a happy ending exactly to their specifications.

How is that not missing the point and failing to understand?

This may not apply in each and every case, but a large portion of the opposition really is failing to understand. Including several of the contributors on this site. I mean, I may have hyperbolized the exact wording of the statement, but Moviebob hit all of the points from my "What the people criticizing retake are saying."

100% This. Especially with Moviebob. Quite literally calling the Retake movement a bunch of entitled crybabies. I'm sorry, but any responses to that he deserved.

Another thing I would like to add to this is that, at least early on in the race, the majority of journalists came out and said "Well I haven't seen the ending, but this is ridiculous" - "I haven't seen the ending". Lost all credibility to comment on it there. You can comment on a broad sense of your feelings towards the whole movement, but making fun of, quote "I don't know whether to point my fingers and laugh or...", and belittling the movement because you actually don't understand what they want, nor why they want it, is going to garner a response of "You don't understand" because, honestly, you don't.

Any journalist who has come out and said "I've played the ending, and yeah, I get what you guy are on about, I don't feel its that big a deal though" will generally be met with intelligent discussion. There is some thread on these forums I've got to get back to with one such discussion. We won't agree with them necessarily - but we will respect their opinion.

As another point, there is evidence that some people we have said "You don't understand" to actually didn't understand. Jim Sterling took it upon himself after seeing responses to his Jimquisition episodes to actually look into the movement, see what it was about, and understand what was going on. He did a 180 on his stance on it.

We don't just tell anyone who disagrees with us that they don't understand. We tell those who insult us, basically say themselves they don't understand, or don't provide any points to back themselves up that they don't understand - and I feel that is reasonable. If you need to insult people to get your point across, put in a disclaimer that you don't know what you're talking about, and are unable to defend your position - odds are you don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Blind Sight]

I'm pretty sure the phrase "Happy Ending" here is referring to the players' state of mind after the ending.

Not so sure about that, one of the bigger journalists' criticisms of 'Retake ME3' is that they weren't satisfied with the bleakness of the ending and wanted a 'happy' ending. Considering that it's much easier to interpret the comic that way and without any qualification otherwise it comes off as such.

I haven't seen it as one of the bigger criticisms. It's been a criticism of course, but only because that's what some people have complained about. There's not complete solidarity within Retake that I think a lot of people assume. There's a lot of different reasons people didn't like the ending, and they don't just boil down to

-our decisions didn't matter
-illogical

I have seen comments even here on the Escapist of people who were mad because all their work was for naught and they didn't get a perfect, happy ending.

Personally, I laugh at the irony of so many people yelling at critical writers with the line, "It's not about the happy ending; they don't get it", when these people are either willfully simplifying the criticisms of Retake or they themselves just "don't get it".

Depends on the source I suppose. 'Bigger' might have been too forceful a word, but there has been some criticism directed at people wanting a 'happy ending' so it's hard not to take the comic in that way.

 

[CleverCover]

The final part made me LOL so hard. It really is a reflection of what happened in the protests. Eventually, someone somewhere was going to come up with that idea.

OMG people, it's a phrase. He's not saying "You just want a happy ending". The punchline wouldn't have been as funny as "A Happy Ending for a Different Ending".

Seriously, stop being so stubborn about this. He's not mocking you I swear.

 

[rickthetrick]

Wait A happy ending can be Oral?! Those lil asian ladies have been gypping me!

 

[dubious_wolf]

.... I dunno what I think of this one.

 

[Jofe]

I just move along when I read on an article defending Bioware and ME3's ending that people is angry because it didn't have a happy ending. That is on most of them. I'm guessing that these people simply don't have enough time to play the whole game or just don't care as much. They simply hear about the ending that "Shepard dies" and they assume that's the problem with the ending. There's been too few who actually try to defend the ending while not going into "people are just angry because there wasn't a welcome back party with cake and everyone was happy ever after". That's why fans disagree and attack them, because they totally fail to see the point.

On a more related point. The punchline was awesome.