Meat eaters should have to kill for their food.

Porygon-2000

I have a green hat! Why?!
Jul 14, 2010
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I caught a rabbit with a ferret, and made delicious pie out of the former. Am I off the hook?
I also fish, if that works too. But I got no problem eating meat prepared for me. I mean, for any bitching and whining I do, that veal I had for dinner would have been dead regardless.
 

Kimarous

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Sep 23, 2009
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I'm a little surprised this hasn't shown up yet...


But in all seriousness, people in this thread have already shown how flawed that idea is. Furthermore, I already know what it takes to kill an animal, for I have murdered many a fly in my day. Don't try and say "that doesn't count" just because they're little bugs. If you're going to use a blanket statement of "animal", then they should all count.
 

Sizzle Montyjing

Pronouns - Slam/Slammed/Slammin'
Apr 5, 2011
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You were born.
You must give birth at least once, even if you are a male.
In fact, by your logic, everything that we have, we should of made at least once.
But i have a wonderful argument against vegetarians.
Okay, it's not that wonderul, but it's amusing.
But i can sort of understand vegetarians.
Vegans on the other hand...
...
My captcha is 'bacon and eggs'
i like it.
 

m72_ar

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Oct 27, 2010
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Gimme a gun or a knife. Let's do this!

I love some animals (kitties !!), but if I have to kill for my meat I'll do it
 

Cain_Zeros

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Nov 13, 2009
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jawakiller said:
You should be forced to grow your own food then. Thats your logic, dude.
I was going to make that same argument. I mean really, a plant died or lose some of it's ability to reproduce to give people vegan-friendly foods, so what makes animals special?
 

Monsterfurby

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Mar 7, 2008
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Glass Joe the Champ said:
Alright, sorry for the harsh criticism there, I'm not that big on soapbox-ish threads, usually, but I'll try to outline my thoughts on this.

If it were practicable to have an entirely balanced conduct of individuals and stay at our current level of advancement, you would be right. However, what you suggest is also a very archaic view on things. Allow me to explain:
In modern post-nuclear age society, violence has become greatly discredited. This applies to some countries more than others, and the existence of the death penalty, gun laws and the acknowledgement of corporeal punishment as a disciplinary means are indicative of a country's individual stance on this. However, as opposed to centuries ago, when violence was an everyday reality, a person leading a decent life is usually expected to distance themselves from violence.
This is, of course, thanks to the renaissance and enlightment, when humanist views became more commonplace. Without that philosophical revolution, the industrial one would not have been possible.
In consequence, the percentual amount of people involved in acts of physical violence has dropped sharply over the past 200 years. I am, mind you, not talking about crime and war alone here, but about the acceptance of violence in society.
One of the reasons this was possible was division of labor. While before, many families kept and slaughtered animals for their meat, now there were industrial plants doing that for them. People could eat meat without thinking about the animal that died before. And while this may be sad for the life that ended for them to have their food, it removed the notion of common violence from the dinner table. I'm not going to go into family structures here, which of course are the greatest factor for the decline in violence, but not killing things on a weekly basis must have helped. Ask any soldier - killing something is not easy, but the human mind adjusts to that kind of stress eventually.
Of course, the decline of the hunting profession also meant a decline in the civilian use of firearms, which has had a huge impact on Central Europe, especially. The US are a martial society and thus less affected by that.

If one were to introduce, say, a law mandating one to kill at least once before they are allowed to eat meat, I do think that there are two possible outcomes, depending on how you view humanity as a whole:
1) The majority declines to follow and instead relies on vegetarian sustenance. That would lead to severe health issues. Healthy adults are quite able to purchase and consume supplements that allow for a healthy vegetarian diet, but children and the elderly - not so much. There would no doubt be severe consequences for public health.
2) The majority accepts and kill an animal to receive permission to eat meat. This is actually the more interesting consequence, as it assumes that those who eat meat are willing and able to kill something. But that's not the issue. The problem is, there is a barrier that has been erected by education and socialization. We all grow up being taught to value life and not to take it from someone. If I am now forced to take life in order to sustain myself, that means that I have killed, and I will be able to kill again should it become necessary.

In conclusion, I think benefits of society's distance from violence far outweigh the hypocrisy that lies in that behavior. You are right in pointing it out, but even disregarding commercial and practical issues, the sociological problem seems to big to accept.

(My captcha is "think green". Awesome apropos.)
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Glass Joe the Champ said:
If you can bring yourself to kill for food, then you have a stronger will than I do, and I have (almost) no problem with you eating meat. If you refuse to kill a cow, but demand 1$ Jr. Double Cheeseburgers, you're a hypocrite in denial, and I have no respect for you.
Okay. Just as soon as you plant your own crops, raise them, pick them, and everything else that is involved with the food you eat. Until you do that, you're a hypocrite twice (once for not growing your own food at least once, and once for looking down on people for not doing something you're also unwilling to do) and I have no respect for you either.

Of course, I don't care either way. You go ahead and have your rant. I'll be over here eating three times as much meat as I normally would have if you hadn't posted this thread [http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor] and not being bothered in the slightest that some random person on the internet doesn't respect me because some other person killed them.
 

darkdraconus

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Sep 18, 2008
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mjc0961 said:
Glass Joe the Champ said:
If you can bring yourself to kill for food, then you have a stronger will than I do, and I have (almost) no problem with you eating meat. If you refuse to kill a cow, but demand 1$ Jr. Double Cheeseburgers, you're a hypocrite in denial, and I have no respect for you.
Okay. Just as soon as you plant your own crops, raise them, pick them, and everything else that is involved with the food you eat. Until you do that, you're a hypocrite twice (once for not growing your own food at least once, and once for looking down on people for not doing something you're also unwilling to do) and I have no respect for you either.

Of course, I don't care either way. You go ahead and have your rant. I'll be over here eating three times as much meat as I normally would have if you hadn't posted this thread [http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=sponsor] and not being bothered in the slightest that some random person on the internet doesn't respect me.
This post is pure win.
 

Bravo 21

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May 11, 2010
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If I had to kill all of my own meat, I too would probably be a vegetarian, just beacause travelling far enough out of the city to finda deer would probably be a bit of a hassle, and firing arrows or bullets at the ones in the front yard would likely result in a visit from the cops. however, I have, on occasion, killed fish, and other seafood that I then ate. It tasted delicios. I figure I will have to go hunting at least once in my life, but I'm still young.
 

Zorak the Mantis

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Oct 17, 2007
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Well, I already hunt deer for food and grow my own vegetables... but I can agree that the "industrialization" of meat is not very good.
 
Aug 1, 2010
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Here is my argument.

I think that in some ways, meat IS manufactured. Cows and Chickens have been domesticated to the point where neither can even be called an animal anymore.

Any source of food that does not move, (as many meat cows do) does not think to any recognizable extent and is created, raised and killed for only the purpose of meat, should not have to be justified.

Also, I just want to say that I have no problem with doing this personally. I simply believe that we have a right to meat.
 

Adrian Neyland

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Apr 20, 2011
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I do believe in eating meat, but I don't believe that animals should die in vain. I hate people who kill animals just for the sport, it perplexes, why did that living creature need to die? You had nothing to gain from it. I still believe that man should have no shame in eating meat, all carnivorous and omnivorous animals do it, and that's what we are, it's only natural (plus it tastes really good). That said I don't believe that making every burger lover take aim at a cow so they can respect their deceased Big Mac is the right thing to do, the society we have build for our-self's is one of luxury and convenience, where the hunter-gatherer system of yesteryear is no longer existent. I think that people who do eat meat understand what they are eating and have made a reasoned decision to eat it. John Lennon said "If slaughter houses had glass walls then everyone would be a vegetarian". A statement that give the idea that if people realized what their porterhouse went though that they would not want to eat it. I'm not how true that statement is (if you look into slaughterhouses and see how many people who work there are vegetarian you will find out if it is) but I'm going to continue to eat meat and enjoy it, it is really the natural thing to do and there should be no shame in it.
 

mikeybuthge

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Apr 28, 2010
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if we all produced our own food, we'd be destroying a whole industry and getting rid of a lot of jobs, not gonna lie
 

imperialwar

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Jun 17, 2008
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Well thats easy, as I've mentioned in another thread I claim it as one of my manly men feats to able to catch / kill, skin, butcher and cook my own meat. Favourite being hunting rabbit with a compound bow and home made arrows. We also kill the occassional Wild Kangaroo when they get into my Uncles orchid on his farm up north.
I also grow my own veggies and fruit too for the record.
Do you follow your own logic OP ?
I'd be interested to know as I think more people should grow their own food.
 

Hwoain

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Jul 3, 2011
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I would personally relish learning how to hunt, kill, skin and prepare my meat...there's just something primal about it in my opinion.
 

Monsterfurby

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Mar 7, 2008
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As for vegetarians growing their own vegetables, I have to break a lance for the OP here. The issue is not "if you use it, make your own", but quite specifically "if you are willing to accept its death lightly, you should kill the thing with the capacity to feel pain yourself".

The OP assumes two things:
a) the capacity to feel pain (i.e. a brain) defines life
b) killing another living being will sensitize humans to the value of life

As I stated above, I don't entirely agere with premise b) here, but if b) is true, the OP's statement is true. If you believe that the instinct for self-preservation eventually wins out over socialization, prompting people to rather kill than not eat meat (as I would), it would indeed backfire horribly.