Meet Yahtzee at PAX, Get Stuff

[Samurai Goomba]

Call me naive, but I think that the money going towards The Escapist is a good enough cause. I believe that the funders will use the money to benefit the site and get the name out there. I'm mean it's not like they're IGN right? Although, I don't like the idea of paying for someone else's company. That doesn't sit right with me.

I disagree. When you look at places like YouTube, you can see the escapist is very obviously not exploiting the many FREE ways to promote their brand (such as posting previews of each new ZP show a day in advance on YT to build anticipation, for example.) The escapist only seems interested in promoting their brand if they have total and complete control over every aspect of that promotion. There are many websites they could use as an avenue for publicity, but they choose not to (probably to keep their most popular content "exclusive" in the hopes of retaining more fans, when one possible reality could be that it's limiting the growth of their shows by restricting them just to people who visit the escapist.)

Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you're missing:

c) That's how much it costs just to keep The Escapist running for a month.

It's not something we talk about, but it is not cheap or easy to keep a site of this size running, and producing the amount of content that we do. We get by, we don't get rich, and we don't have piles of money laying around to do lots of fun extra things. Not sure why people think we do.

Maybe there are ways to cut costs or manage revenue better? Maybe you have too many shows that aren't profitable enough? Perhaps you could (again) explore free avenues of publicity? Like posting old ZP episodes on your YouTube (since it's your most popular show) in hopes of reviving YT interest, possibly landing a partnership deal or just spreading interest in the escapist beyond its own community?

People are willing to donate for a good cause, but being asked to give 20k over 2 days for an event that you guys definitely could have planned better/made plans in advance for/asked us for money earlier for (and therefore not needed as MUCH, because plane tickets COST LESS when you don't buy them last minute)... Is it any wonder some people just aren't interested or feel annoyed?

And people think Yahtzee has piles of money because he keeps telling them he does. Maybe he should reign that in (on places like australian gamer podcasts and ZP reviews) if he wants to ask for money. We know he does well for himself, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who WANTS to go have a bunch of fans asking him to review games. Most of the fans he is asking for money from probably make much less money than he does.

 

[Kanatatsu]

The negative response can be boiled down to this:

We see (what appears to be) a very successful website asking for large donations from generally poor kids to fund a promotional trip for (someone who appears to be) a very successful internet personality ... and who doesn't give two shits about any of the people who donate.

And then when the masses get riled up, it's rephrased as a sale (of sorts) and the Escapist cries poor (when nobody can verify this).

I am sure that you can see how this smells to your average customer, Escapist.

 

[MarxII]

The Escapist has revealed itself for the heartless conglomerate that it is, conspiring to subject Yahtzee, of all people, to this sort of thing:
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jNBIyGxV7Ek" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

But seriously though. I'd count myself a fan of his work, and have read nothing of his to suggest he'd remotely enjoy being mobbed by his many admirers, no matter how orderly the lines or sanctified the velvet rope may be.

And that seems to me to rather take the starch out of the whole thing. One imagines, as one poster previous has mentioned, that given the not inconsiderable outlay required, only the more ardent of his fans would make it to the table in the first place. And one further supposes, as many before have mentioned, that it would likely be something of an awkward affair if the Dux himself was only present on sufferance. Surely the monetary recompense would bestow some spirit of indulgence on the most Oscaresque misanthrope, but the point remains.

 

[repeating integers]

So...my oppurtunity is paying money so that I can pay more money so that I, a british man, can travel to america, to see another british man...

My thoughts exactly. And to think, if I lived in America, I'd have this one chance to make him review Homeworld...

 

[Carnagath]

To be fair, I don't think the Escapist is to blame here. I assume they suggested his presence and it's Yahtzee who set some ridiculously high standards for his trip, personal comfort and overall compensation for having to shake the sweaty hands of overly enthusiastic mid-20's manchildren who will then proceed to ask him who is that man with the blank stare in the picture that he uses a whole lot, and generally things he has answered 500 times before until he seriously starts to contemplate suicide.

Personally I don't see the reason to force someone who doesn't belong among crowds to be, well, among crowds, by making him an offer he can't refuse (yes, I know, what I did there, you see it). He is not like other internet personalities, like Day9 (Starcraft 2 fans probably know him), who clearly enjoys meeting fans and sometimes even goes out of his way to arrive earlier than he needs to at an event or stays until he almost passes out so he can spend more time with them.

By "contributing" in order for the Escapist to meet Yahtzee's extraordinary demands, you are ultimately making one man more miserable (for a few days) and slightly richer, you are boosting his already gargantuan ego and, without knowing it, probably also getting him laid. Whether you will or not is your business.

 

[Ghengis John]

Just $10 will get you the chance.

I really find it hard to enjoy any occasion where others are forced (and especially paid) to endure my company. I think that this falls under that umbrella.

For that matter it doesn't seem like Yahtzee really enjoys... well... people.

Do I really even want to meet an uptight angry snob who probably looks upon me with the same sense of adulation he'd lend a piece of gum stuck to the bottom of his shoe?

 

[Treaos Serrare]

To be fair, I don't think the Escapist is to blame here. I assume they suggested his presence and it's Yahtzee who set some ridiculously high standards for his trip, personal comfort and overall compensation for having to shake the sweaty hands of overly enthusiastic mid-20's manchildren who will then proceed to ask him who is that man with the blank stare in the picture that he uses a whole lot, and generally things he has answered 500 times before until he seriously starts to contemplate suicide.

Personally I don't see the reason to force someone who doesn't belong among crowds to be, well, among crowds, by making him an offer he can't refuse (yes, I know, what I did there, you see it). He is not like other internet personalities, like Day9 (Starcraft 2 fans probably know him), who clearly enjoys meeting fans and sometimes even goes out of his way to arrive earlier than he needs to at an event or stays until he almost passes out so he can spend more time with them.

By "contributing" in order for the Escapist to meet Yahtzee's extraordinary demands, you are ultimately making one man more miserable (for a few days) and slightly richer, you are boosting his already gargantuan ego and, without knowing it, probably also getting him laid. Whether you will or not is your business.

wtf are you talking about? you do realize trans continental flight is retardedly expensive right?
from the nearest coast of australia to the west coast of America would probably eat up all of that 20k for only coach class seats

OT: Holy shit! its like Christmas and an orgy all in one!

 

[Kross]

It's always fun to see a CEO reply to fans/customers. You can't help but wonder, is their way of thinking really that analytical, or do they have four advisers nearby, wearing black cloaks and whispering Satan's bidding in his ears?

I generally like that my CEO applies analytical thinking in the pursuit running a business that pays myself and our other staff money for rent and food.

I've been wanting a cool black cloak for a while though.

 

[Kross]

And people think Yahtzee has piles of money because he keeps telling them he does. Maybe he should reign that in (on places like australian gamer podcasts and ZP reviews) if he wants to ask for money. We know he does well for himself, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who WANTS to go have a bunch of fans asking him to review games. Most of the fans he is asking for money from probably make much less money than he does.

That would be his money, that he earned for his work. We are the ones who are interested in paying to bring him out to meet fans, therefore we are the ones who pay to bring him out. The same way we try to pay for our editorial staff to fly out and have a place to stay at conventions. Not to say they haven't eaten the cost for things many times in the past (especially buying games to review), but we really really try to avoid that.

Alternate version: Conversations don't usually go well that start with "We need you to pay at least $4000 of your own money to fly out here for PAX."

 

[JoelChenFA]

I was the one who recommended that Extra Credits use RocketHub. RocketHub's attorney is a close personal friend of mine. We have been monitoring crowdsourcing as an opportunity for a long time.
That being the case, I commend you for the suggestion and thank you for the answer. It does seem as if your present use of the site was not a result of Extra Credits' initiative, but, rather, both came from a common cause.
All that being said, the success of Extra Credits' initiative is ultimately not tied to any given platform. (Indeed, it might have been higher if it was somewhere other than RocketHub; I seem to recall a fair few people wishing that RocketHub accepted PayPal, as they didn't have credit cards but wanted to donate.) The only reason I asked about the platform issue was to clarify cause and effect in this matter.

James (of Extra Credits) had looked into to doing it on Kickstarter, but Kickstarter refused to do it because they thought it was just a charity. We also looked at doing it via the same method we use for Publisher's Club, but the infrastructure of RocketHub was far better for their purposes.

Are you seriously suggesting that any given action you take is somehow acceptable simply because, as an alternative, you could have always thrown yourself an office party with bacardi and strippers?

Exhausted and sick from not having better treatment than normal. THE HORRORS!


No, I'm suggesting that the action of selling something in exchange for the item PLUS promising to do an event* is actually nicer than just selling something, which is what we usually do.

Also, are you seriously suggesting that sending Yahtzee to PAX will cost you $20,000? What if you only get $10,000 - what will you do then?

In order to have Yahtzee present, we have to pay for his time away from his other business projects. He doesn't actually work for free. We also need to send out a pair of marketing folks and not just two journalists like we normally do. As a business, when we send our employees to travel, we have to cover their food, lodging, and flights - that's simply good business practice.

A round-trip ticket from Australia is usually around $2,000. If we want to fly him business class, so that he's not exhausted and sick when he arrives, the cost jumps to close to $10,000.

The posters have a cost of production of about $5 to $10 and a shipping & handling charge via the fulfillment house of about $5 US and $8 - $12 international, maybe more if it's in a really distant destination.

Finally, we then have to pay for a great fan meet-up with food and drinks in a good venue. Have you ever hosted a corporate event? An event for 50 will easily cost thousands of dollars if you open up the bar. When we hosted E3 parties in LA and GDC parties in SF, the price is close to $50 per person or more. All of this very rapidly adds up.

If we only get $10,000 then... We don't get any money at all. And then we won't produce the posters or fly Yahtzee out. We'll do what we usually we do, which is send a small bare-bones contingent to provide coverage.

I mean... if all you're saying is "I don't think getting a poster at PAX is worth $20" or "meeting Yahtzee isn't worth X" or whatever, well, OK. Um...then you shouldn't participate. I personally think women's shoes are overpriced, but I don't get morally outraged at the idea that some women's shoes are $500.

 

[JoelChenFA]

Call me naive, but I think that the money going towards The Escapist is a good enough cause. I believe that the funders will use the money to benefit the site and get the name out there. I'm mean it's not like they're IGN right? Although, I don't like the idea of paying for someone else's company. That doesn't sit right with me.

I disagree. When you look at places like YouTube, you can see the escapist is very obviously not exploiting the many FREE ways to promote their brand (such as posting previews of each new ZP show a day in advance on YT to build anticipation, for example.) The escapist only seems interested in promoting their brand if they have total and complete control over every aspect of that promotion. There are many websites they could use as an avenue for publicity, but they choose not to (probably to keep their most popular content "exclusive" in the hopes of retaining more fans, when one possible reality could be that it's limiting the growth of their shows by restricting them just to people who visit the escapist.)

Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you're missing:

c) That's how much it costs just to keep The Escapist running for a month.

It's not something we talk about, but it is not cheap or easy to keep a site of this size running, and producing the amount of content that we do. We get by, we don't get rich, and we don't have piles of money laying around to do lots of fun extra things. Not sure why people think we do.

Maybe there are ways to cut costs or manage revenue better? Maybe you have too many shows that aren't profitable enough? Perhaps you could (again) explore free avenues of publicity? Like posting old ZP episodes on your YouTube (since it's your most popular show) in hopes of reviving YT interest, possibly landing a partnership deal or just spreading interest in the escapist beyond its own community?

People are willing to donate for a good cause, but being asked to give 20k over 2 days for an event that you guys definitely could have planned better/made plans in advance for/asked us for money earlier for (and therefore not needed as MUCH, because plane tickets COST LESS when you don't buy them last minute)... Is it any wonder some people just aren't interested or feel annoyed?

And people think Yahtzee has piles of money because he keeps telling them he does. Maybe he should reign that in (on places like australian gamer podcasts and ZP reviews) if he wants to ask for money. We know he does well for himself, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who WANTS to go have a bunch of fans asking him to review games. Most of the fans he is asking for money from probably make much less money than he does.

They should stop paying for crap like Jimquisition.

 

[JoelChenFA]

Oh man. What can we learn from this adventure?

This reminds me of how Socialism doesn't work, but maybe it's all in the phrasing.

Socialist Example: Contribute to the party, for the benefit of the team! Get a reward!

Capitalist Example: Buy this autographed poster! Proceeds go to this big party we're throwing at PAX!

Capitalism win: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Tell me about it man. The whole world is waiting for the house to get off their various high horses and raise the debt ceiling already.

 

[IDS3Remix]

Apparently, since I don't have thousands of dollars to give to Yahtzee, though I would gladly buy a shirt or book of his if it meant I was helping out, I'm not a real fan? I would assume the average Yahtzee fan COULD NOT afford most to donate as much as we're being asked for, and that shouldn't surprise the contest holders either. This seems like something a videogame publisher would take more interest in, over a fan...

 

[Samurai Goomba]

And people think Yahtzee has piles of money because he keeps telling them he does. Maybe he should reign that in (on places like australian gamer podcasts and ZP reviews) if he wants to ask for money. We know he does well for himself, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who WANTS to go have a bunch of fans asking him to review games. Most of the fans he is asking for money from probably make much less money than he does.

That would be his money, that he earned for his work. We are the ones who are interested in paying to bring him out to meet fans, therefore we are the ones who pay to bring him out. The same way we try to pay for our editorial staff to fly out and have a place to stay at conventions. Not to say they haven't eaten the cost for things many times in the past (especially buying games to review), but we really really try to avoid that.

Alternate version: Conversations don't usually go well that start with "We need you to pay at least $4000 of your own money to fly out here for PAX."

You are correct that employers should pay for these expenses. The problem is this is not what you are doing. You are not paying to bring him out, you are asking his fans to give him a bunch of money he doesn't need (he probably makes more money than most of them do), so you can fly him and yourselves out last-minute with expensive plane tickets, when you wouldn't have needed nearly this much cash if you'd put up this thread six months ago and pre-ordered plain tickets like a regular joe.

 

[Mr Montmorency]

That would be his money, that he earned for his work. We are the ones who are interested in paying to bring him out to meet fans, therefore we are the ones who pay to bring him out.

You're paying for it now?

 

[ResonanceSD]

Oh man. What can we learn from this adventure?

This reminds me of how Socialism doesn't work, but maybe it's all in the phrasing.

Socialist Example: Contribute to the party, for the benefit of the team! Get a reward!

Capitalist Example: Buy this autographed poster! Proceeds go to this big party we're throwing at PAX!

Capitalism win: http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Tell me about it man. The whole world is waiting for the house to get off their various high horses and raise the debt ceiling already.

What'd I'd prefer is for them to start paying the bloody debt, rather than just allowing more.

 

[JoelChenFA]

And people think Yahtzee has piles of money because he keeps telling them he does. Maybe he should reign that in (on places like australian gamer podcasts and ZP reviews) if he wants to ask for money. We know he does well for himself, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who WANTS to go have a bunch of fans asking him to review games. Most of the fans he is asking for money from probably make much less money than he does.

That would be his money, that he earned for his work. We are the ones who are interested in paying to bring him out to meet fans, therefore we are the ones who pay to bring him out. The same way we try to pay for our editorial staff to fly out and have a place to stay at conventions. Not to say they haven't eaten the cost for things many times in the past (especially buying games to review), but we really really try to avoid that.

Alternate version: Conversations don't usually go well that start with "We need you to pay at least $4000 of your own money to fly out here for PAX."

You are correct that employers should pay for these expenses. The problem is this is not what you are doing. You are not paying to bring him out, you are asking his fans to give him a bunch of money he doesn't need (he probably makes more money than most of them do), so you can fly him and yourselves out last-minute with expensive plane tickets, when you wouldn't have needed nearly this much cash if you'd put up this thread six months ago and pre-ordered plain tickets like a regular joe.

I suggest imposing a fine of 20k on Jimquisition for breaking the forum rules. Then you can fly to wherever you want!

 

[Kross]

That would be his money, that he earned for his work. We are the ones who are interested in paying to bring him out to meet fans, therefore we are the ones who pay to bring him out.

You're paying for it now?

Will you write about me in your wiki of anger if I do?

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I suggest imposing a fine of 20k on Jimquisition for breaking the forum rules. Then you can fly to wherever you want!

You really don't like Jimquisition, do you? Is it Jim you have a problem with, or the fact that escapist contributors can say and do certain things in their shows, when the same behavior gets users banned. Just curious, and feel free to link me to examples of this (meaning Jim breaking forum rules) happening. Not challenging that it is, I'd just like to see.

Also I think Jim is a pretty funny guy. I was offended at first until I realized the massive amount of sarcasm that goes on in every video. Sure, sarcasm doesn't translate well on the 'net, but everything from the intro song to the way Jim presents himself seems satirical to me.

On-Topic: One thing that does seem really off here (no, not repeating old ground, this is new for me) is the pricing. I think it goes beyond "a bad deal." 5,000 dollars to force Yahtzee to review a game of my choice? And then on top of that the escapist is limiting this review to only indie games? Why? Just... Why? Furthermore, the escapist reserves the right to reject any game "based on the spirit of the donation and content?" What does that even mean? That's a get out of jail free card for the escapist to reject ANY game, really. Look, escapist, 5 grand for a single, 3-4 minute WMM review is already the definition of "a bad deal" (in terms of comparable value for money. For example, I could buy 2-3 really expensive high-tech TVs with that cash, or live on that money for a month or two), but these limitations really hit home and make a poor product less appealing.

And yeah, at least half of these are PAX only, and most people can't attend by now. Old point. Moving on.

"Outro sponsorship?" What is this? My name in the credits? Why would anyone want that? I can see some appeal to the other products, even though I think they're overpriced. But what good does it do me as a customer to see my name in the credits for the low low price of 1,000 dollars? 1,000 bucks is a lot of money, and that's not really a "product," it's more like a donation plaque, of the sort somebody would get for donating to charity. So again, how is this not a donation drive?

Finally, there are many worthy causes to donate to, and money is very tight in the charity sector. To anyone who is considering donating money here, please consider either giving that money or giving some other money to a charity that does good work. It's not hard to find a charity that uses most or all their donation money to directly support the services they offer. For many people, these establishments make the difference between people turning their lives around or living under horrible conditions. I'm a penniless college student myself, and I'm not saying people should donate to charity, but to those who have the money for this, please consider alternative/additional places to donate to. $5,000 means a lot to your local domestic violence shelters or food banks.

 

[Mr Montmorency]

That would be his money, that he earned for his work. We are the ones who are interested in paying to bring him out to meet fans, therefore we are the ones who pay to bring him out.

You're paying for it now?

Will you write about me in your wiki of anger if I do?

Oh! Ha ha! I got told. Yes. I have nothing better to do.