Metal is not "Screamo"

[Hairetos]

Lol, you say "judgment" as if there's something to prove after telling me it's opinion.

And your entire case is based around one point: it has breakdowns it's screamo. News flash: death metal has breakdowns (even Carcass has them) and they do not disqualify a band from also being called metal. We instead create fusion genres like metalcore, melodeath, etc.

Hop off your high horse sonny.

Sigh.. Stop taking segments of my text and taking it out of context, I was explaining the song structure behind the screamo genre, The pitch plays a bigger part but its typically a rising scale, bridge then breakdown. Im not saying its an incorrect way to compose songs, im just showing the diference. My argument is that the genre Metal is not related to Screamo, Screamo isnt metal, its a sub genre of metal, and this thread if I remember correctly is about the association of Screamo with metal. Now, if the OP meant Metal as a whole or just the single Metal genre it changes the context of all the discussions on this thread.
tl;dr - Was explaining typical song structure of screamo, similar but not a typical composition for the genre 'Metal' It is suitable as its on genre as a sub genre of metal.

Except that you're not right. You can claim all of these facts, but that's not how screamo is classified. Yes, screamo has breakdowns, and yes it even has the progression you mentioned. So does anything with a -core attachment because it's a trait originally from HARDCORE. Which brings me to my next point in that screamo is not a sub-genre of metal, it's a sub-genre of hardcore, which is a derivative of punk. Hardcore is then incorporated into metal to form fusion genres, which was my original contention over you calling Parkway Drive screamo, not metalcore.

EDIT: here's wikipedia to corroborate my point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screamo

 

[Ironic Pirate]

A good post, except that I don't think Groove and Metalcore are the same.

Metalcore is Hardcore Punk + metal, and Groove is very heavy, with slow, thick riffs. Later Pantera, some Machine Head, that sort of thing. With your system, it'd fall under both Thrash and Doom, mostly thrash though.

Well i may be wrong there, but i find Pantera's style of music sounding like Metalcore alot.

Some bands are closely related for sure, not to say thats bad or anything.

There's some overlap, definitely. Lamb of God is both, for example. Metalcore is kind of a faster, punkier groove metal, with alternating screaming/singing vocals. And then some metalcore isn't groovy at all, like early Avenged Sevenfold and Bullet for my Valentine.

 

[Musiclly enhanced]

i hate music nowerdays its all this pop dubstep crap and i love rock n metal etc
but it annoys me how people think that a band like AC/DC are screamo and metallica
they are rock or metal screamo is just depressing screams with a bass drum played really fast

 

[kinapuffar]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Eh I've heard your nonsense from more ignorant people than I can count, I've long since given up caring about this tired, old cliche. Fact is you are the one that is missing out. Even discounting the extreme technical proficiency that is required to play the stereotypical, fast paced death metal that you are referring to, the more musically respected genres of metal (technical death metal, progressive metal and neoclassical metal to name but a few) contain (with the exception of classical and jazz) the most complex musical compositions around right now. You don't get anywhere in these genres without having a profound understanding of music, they use everything at their disposal; key changes, odd time signatures, time changes, arpeggios as well as many types of modes and scales to form some real musical masterpieces. There are many metal guitar riffs that could easily become the base melody for a classical piece, in fact there's neoclassical metal which is basically classical music sped up, with only limited (or even without) orchestra.

I wont deny that there are some real garbage metal bands out there that do nothing musically and just burn your ears with tired, old power chords, growls and tremolo picking but because of metals' huge scope there are sooo many bands out there that combine technical playing as well as vast musical knowledge to create songs that are a mix of fast-paced intensity and high level musical composition, that is just awesome.

I get that people are turned off by the intensity, but there's no reason any rational human being who has spent more than a moment researching with an open mind would think metal isn't music.

That's what you assume. I used to listen exclusively to metal back when I was 15 or so.
But then I grew up and stopped feeling sorry for myself.
Playing fast doesn't equal playing well. Music is a matter of muscle memory, and musical skill is about the sound, not the technique.

 

[Zeriah]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Eh I've heard your nonsense from more ignorant people than I can count, I've long since given up caring about this tired, old cliche. Fact is you are the one that is missing out. Even discounting the extreme technical proficiency that is required to play the stereotypical, fast paced death metal that you are referring to, the more musically respected genres of metal (technical death metal, progressive metal and neoclassical metal to name but a few) contain (with the exception of classical and jazz) the most complex musical compositions around right now. You don't get anywhere in these genres without having a profound understanding of music, they use everything at their disposal; key changes, odd time signatures, time changes, arpeggios as well as many types of modes and scales to form some real musical masterpieces. There are many metal guitar riffs that could easily become the base melody for a classical piece, in fact there's neoclassical metal which is basically classical music sped up, with only limited (or even without) orchestra.

I wont deny that there are some real garbage metal bands out there that do nothing musically and just burn your ears with tired, old power chords, growls and tremolo picking but because of metals' huge scope there are sooo many bands out there that combine technical playing as well as vast musical knowledge to create songs that are a mix of fast-paced intensity and high level musical composition, that is just awesome.

I get that people are turned off by the intensity, but there's no reason any rational human being who has spent more than a moment researching with an open mind would think metal isn't music.

That's what you assume. I used to listen exclusively to metal back when I was 15 or so.
But then I grew up and stopped feeling sorry for myself.

Playing fast doesn't equal playing well. Music is a matter of muscle memory, and musical skill is about the sound, not the technique.

Or (and this is far more likely) you were just listening to some bad metal. Also almost my entire post ignored the high speed technique of metal and focused on the composition. If you honestly believe that some lame hipster rock indie douche makes better music than guys like Buckethead, Yngwie Malmsteen, John Petrucci, Dave Mustaine etc then I don't know what to say. The only guys that make more complex, in depth compositions are Jazz and Classical composers.

I mean you can dislike metal, it's a genre that's extremely easy to dislike. But to say that it isn't even music, or that it's all a skill-less, untalented mess useful only for teens to piss off their parents is about as far from the truth as you can get (unless you are talking about Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Slipknot or Bullet for my Valentine).

 

[kinapuffar]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Eh I've heard your nonsense from more ignorant people than I can count, I've long since given up caring about this tired, old cliche. Fact is you are the one that is missing out. Even discounting the extreme technical proficiency that is required to play the stereotypical, fast paced death metal that you are referring to, the more musically respected genres of metal (technical death metal, progressive metal and neoclassical metal to name but a few) contain (with the exception of classical and jazz) the most complex musical compositions around right now. You don't get anywhere in these genres without having a profound understanding of music, they use everything at their disposal; key changes, odd time signatures, time changes, arpeggios as well as many types of modes and scales to form some real musical masterpieces. There are many metal guitar riffs that could easily become the base melody for a classical piece, in fact there's neoclassical metal which is basically classical music sped up, with only limited (or even without) orchestra.

I wont deny that there are some real garbage metal bands out there that do nothing musically and just burn your ears with tired, old power chords, growls and tremolo picking but because of metals' huge scope there are sooo many bands out there that combine technical playing as well as vast musical knowledge to create songs that are a mix of fast-paced intensity and high level musical composition, that is just awesome.

I get that people are turned off by the intensity, but there's no reason any rational human being who has spent more than a moment researching with an open mind would think metal isn't music.

That's what you assume. I used to listen exclusively to metal back when I was 15 or so.
But then I grew up and stopped feeling sorry for myself.

Playing fast doesn't equal playing well. Music is a matter of muscle memory, and musical skill is about the sound, not the technique.

Or (and this is far more likely) you were just listening to some bad metal. Also almost my entire post ignored the high speed technique of metal and focused on the composition. If you honestly believe that some lame hipster rock indie douche makes better music than guys like Buckethead, Yngwie Malmsteen, John Petrucci, Dave Mustaine etc then I don't know what to say. The only guys that make more complex, in depth compositions are Jazz and Classical composers.

I mean you can dislike metal, it's a genre that's extremely easy to dislike. But to say that it isn't even music, or that it's all a skill-less, untalented mess useful only for teens to piss off their parents is about as far from the truth as you can get (unless you are talking about Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Slipknot or Bullet for my Valentine).

Django Reinhardt.
Metal is a broad term, I'm talking specifically about the kinds of metal where people do nothing but growl and scream. I guess everything that ends with the word CORE.
Or starts with Death, or Black.

 

[Zeriah]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Eh I've heard your nonsense from more ignorant people than I can count, I've long since given up caring about this tired, old cliche. Fact is you are the one that is missing out. Even discounting the extreme technical proficiency that is required to play the stereotypical, fast paced death metal that you are referring to, the more musically respected genres of metal (technical death metal, progressive metal and neoclassical metal to name but a few) contain (with the exception of classical and jazz) the most complex musical compositions around right now. You don't get anywhere in these genres without having a profound understanding of music, they use everything at their disposal; key changes, odd time signatures, time changes, arpeggios as well as many types of modes and scales to form some real musical masterpieces. There are many metal guitar riffs that could easily become the base melody for a classical piece, in fact there's neoclassical metal which is basically classical music sped up, with only limited (or even without) orchestra.

I wont deny that there are some real garbage metal bands out there that do nothing musically and just burn your ears with tired, old power chords, growls and tremolo picking but because of metals' huge scope there are sooo many bands out there that combine technical playing as well as vast musical knowledge to create songs that are a mix of fast-paced intensity and high level musical composition, that is just awesome.

I get that people are turned off by the intensity, but there's no reason any rational human being who has spent more than a moment researching with an open mind would think metal isn't music.

That's what you assume. I used to listen exclusively to metal back when I was 15 or so.
But then I grew up and stopped feeling sorry for myself.

Playing fast doesn't equal playing well. Music is a matter of muscle memory, and musical skill is about the sound, not the technique.

Or (and this is far more likely) you were just listening to some bad metal. Also almost my entire post ignored the high speed technique of metal and focused on the composition. If you honestly believe that some lame hipster rock indie douche makes better music than guys like Buckethead, Yngwie Malmsteen, John Petrucci, Dave Mustaine etc then I don't know what to say. The only guys that make more complex, in depth compositions are Jazz and Classical composers.

I mean you can dislike metal, it's a genre that's extremely easy to dislike. But to say that it isn't even music, or that it's all a skill-less, untalented mess useful only for teens to piss off their parents is about as far from the truth as you can get (unless you are talking about Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Slipknot or Bullet for my Valentine).

Django Reinhardt.
Metal is a broad term, I'm talking specifically about the kinds of metal where people do nothing but growl and scream. I guess everything that ends with the word CORE.
Or starts with Death, or Black.

Yeah I would actually agree with anything ending with Core (just because of how basic it is, "derp I can make power chords and break downs herp derp"), but Death and Black? Nope. There's some insane Death Metal bands out there; Necrophagist, Vital Remains, Arsis, Opeth etc etc. Black Metal is different, it's more about creating a "tone" or "feeling", rather than simply melody - though that doesn't mean it's not music. At the end of the day it seems like you believe growls are for some reason, juvenile and just dismiss any music with them in it - which is fine for personal taste but when you say ridiculous things like "it isn't music" just because you don't like them just makes you seem foolish. This isn't even debatable, metal (as long as you are listening to the right things) has some insane musical compositions that only Jazz and Classical outdo, as well the most technically proficient players in music. To say it isn't music is just laughable.

Also what's with Django Reinhardt in your post? Are you trying to say he makes better compositions than metal guys? If so I agree, I've been saying from that start that Jazz and Classical guys are still a cut above most Metal bands when it comes to composition.