Metal is not "Screamo"

[Ironic Pirate]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

What? Seriously?

Does it have back-masking as well, according to you?

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Or your just being ignorant.

*You're.
Lrn2grammar

Lrn2notbeadick,peoplemakemistakesandenglishisn'teveryone'sfirstlanguage.



In non-irritating speak, that reads "Learn to not be a dick, people make mistakes and English isn't everyone's first language".

 

[emeraldrafael]

Oka? I get metal is a heavier rock,

Hehe no, it developed much further than just being "heavier rock"...

its heavy rock, settle yourself down. There's only about four greater music genres and the rest are sub genres.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Their similiar when your ignorant, or you dont understand them.

Holy shit, so much grammatical suck in the one sentence.

OT: No, Metal is not Screamo. Of course there are so many different types of metal nowadays it's hard to keep track of what's what I suppose.

Heavy,Thrash,Death,Black,Power,Progressive,Doom.

Not really that much. Every metal band pretty much falls into one of these even if they have industrial, avant garde, or any other influences.

Metal, Heavy Metal, Death Metal, Alteritive Metal, New Metal, Morotic Death Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Dark Wave Metal, Hip Hop Metal, Gothic Metal, Deathcore Metal, Thrashcore Metal, Trash Metal, Alteritive Gothic Metal, Black Metal, Dark Industrial Metal, Deathcore Metal, Grindcore Metal, Mathcore Metal, Glam Metal, Hardcore Metal, Industrial Techno Metal, Metalcore, Melodic Thrash Metal, Melodic Black Metal, Power Metal, Rock Metal, Melodic Trash Metal, Rap Metal, Noise Meta, 80's Metal, Grove Metal, Pirate Metal, Hardcore Metal, Doom Metal, Electric Metal, Folk Metal, Viking Metal, Traditional Metal, Orchestral Metal, Symphonic Metal, Progressive Metal, Dark Melodic Death Metal, Love Metal, Hair Metal, Epic Metal, Melodeath Metal, Extreme Metal, Funeraldoom Metal, Blackeneddeath Metal, Unblack Metal, Melodicblack Metal, Symphonicblack Metal, Drone Metal, Neo-Classical Metal, Sludge Metal, Post Metal, Stoner Metal

Read more: Can you list all the metal (Music) types? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/356015#ixzz19K8lMDjV

Why dont you make up your own mind on this instead of quoting someone full of shit.

Anything ending with CORE is a fusion beetween punk and metal.
Viking,Pirate metal is made up bullshit, because lyrics do not make a genre.

Sludge,Stoner, Funeral Doom, Drone, their all pretty much are very close to Doom Metal, they all pretty much fall into Doom. Gothic also falls into here, but often its got other elements too.

Post Metal falls easily into Progressive Metal.

Extreme Metal is an umbrella term for Death,Black,Doom and Thrash.



Glam Metal/Hair Metal is not valid, because image doesnt make the genre, "Glam/Hair" bands fall into either Rock, or Heavy Metal.

Traditional Metal = Heavy Metal.

Groove = Metalcore.

80s Metal is not a subgenre, its simply refering to metal from the 80s. Which is mostly Heavy,Thrash and the early Death/Black bands.

Speed Metal is kind of a bridge beetween Heavy Metal and Thrash, but ussually the band in that spot belong to one or the other genre.

Subgenres that are fused, such as Industrial,Hip Hop,Rap,Nu Metal well theyll still fall into Heavy Metal/Thrash Metal mostly, or other subgenres.

Symphonic=Orchestral and thats simply an aesthetic with the use of an orchestra or a MIDI synth, these often fall into Blak Metal or Power Metal.

I did miss out folk though, as for noise, well that isnt promiment as a subgenre, its valid enough though. I also missed out Avant-Garde, but alot of that is often progressive or experimental.

Neoclassical is valid, but still the bands are either power, black or death metal.

Shit that is fucking stupid: Dark Wave Metal,Love Metal, Dark Melodic Death Metal, Melodic Thrash Metal, Electric Metal, Rock Metal, Unlack Metal, Melodic Black Metal, Epic Metal, Dark Industrial Metal, Industrial Techno Metal.

But i hope you get my point. Alot of metal bands will be part of one of the big subgenres, while there is also alot of stupid shit made up by clueless people.

A good post, except that I don't think Groove and Metalcore are the same.

Metalcore is Hardcore Punk + metal, and Groove is very heavy, with slow, thick riffs. Later Pantera, some Machine Head, that sort of thing. With your system, it'd fall under both Thrash and Doom, mostly thrash though.

 

[Ironic Pirate]

Their similiar when your ignorant, or you dont understand them.

Holy shit, so much grammatical suck in the one sentence.

OT: No, Metal is not Screamo. Of course there are so many different types of metal nowadays it's hard to keep track of what's what I suppose.

Heavy,Thrash,Death,Black,Power,Progressive,Doom.

Not really that much. Every metal band pretty much falls into one of these even if they have industrial, avant garde, or any other influences.

Metal, Heavy Metal, Death Metal, Alteritive Metal, New Metal, Morotic Death Metal, Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Dark Wave Metal, Hip Hop Metal, Gothic Metal, Deathcore Metal, Thrashcore Metal, Trash Metal, Alteritive Gothic Metal, Black Metal, Dark Industrial Metal, Deathcore Metal, Grindcore Metal, Mathcore Metal, Glam Metal, Hardcore Metal, Industrial Techno Metal, Metalcore, Melodic Thrash Metal, Melodic Black Metal, Power Metal, Rock Metal, Melodic Trash Metal, Rap Metal, Noise Meta, 80's Metal, Grove Metal, Pirate Metal, Hardcore Metal, Doom Metal, Electric Metal, Folk Metal, Viking Metal, Traditional Metal, Orchestral Metal, Symphonic Metal, Progressive Metal, Dark Melodic Death Metal, Love Metal, Hair Metal, Epic Metal, Melodeath Metal, Extreme Metal, Funeraldoom Metal, Blackeneddeath Metal, Unblack Metal, Melodicblack Metal, Symphonicblack Metal, Drone Metal, Neo-Classical Metal, Sludge Metal, Post Metal, Stoner Metal

Read more: Can you list all the metal (Music) types? | Answerbag http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/356015#ixzz19K8lMDjV

You missed 'Nu Metal'

But man that's so many labels, why are they needed? 'Rap Metal'? What's wrong with just saying it's both Rap and Metal? So redundant

It's extremely helpful for fans. I mean, there's a good amount of variety in metal, and without any kind of label, it'd be really hard to find new music.

I mean, I hate death and black metal, but love thrash and such, and I can just look through the thrash section of amazon without having to worry about any death metal creeping in.

 

[Hairetos]

Screamo is also known as Hardcore, which is a load of crap.
Example of screamo would be Bring Me The (Hairstraightners) Horizon, Parkway Drive etc.

I dont know if its just me but Screamo is essentially the Emo kid genre, along with stuff like Linkin Park and My Chemical Romance.
Screamo is nowhere near metal, I believe it should be its own stupid genre instead of being a sub genre of metal.
Example of Metal would be Anthrax, Anvil, Megadeth, Testament, Iron Maiden etc

Im a death metal man myself (Cannibal Corpse, Carcass, Terrorizer, Napalm Death, Hate Eternal etc etc)

So wait, metal only includes the metal bands you like? Because it's inconsistent to say that metal includes the classics (Anthrax, Megadeth, Testament) AND your personal death metal while not including what other people like that's called metal. Until you get some objective criteria, I'm calling bullshit.

Sorry, you pissed off a Parkway Drive fan.

I never said I liked Anthrax, Anvil etc. They were EXAMPLES. Im sorry but im going to have to say 'welcome to the internet' We all have opinions and I was simple adding my point of view to this discussion. Now back to this point,

The tempos and scales used in Screamo music differs greatly to Metal, Often in screamo there are alot of breaks and bridges with lots of pinch harmonics, usually resulting in a 'break down' Now the tune in most of these screamo bands ascends. Basically, it goes from a low riff to a high bar. This is in every screamo song ive ever heard. Perhaps you should pay closer attention to what people are saying, as I said that there are many sub genres in metal, but the actual genre of 'Metal' involves the bands stated above. And, like other people in the thread, I posted my favorite genre and some examples.

So please, dont let fanboyism cloud your judgement.

...the most complex musical compositions around right now.

This. Just take a look at the new artists in music today. Everything is done in mixing programs using samples and voice filters. Nowadays its just the 1 bar of music repeated, no complexity whatsoever.

Lol, you say "judgment" as if there's something to prove after telling me it's opinion.

And your entire case is based around one point: it has breakdowns it's screamo. News flash: death metal has breakdowns (even Carcass has them) and they do not disqualify a band from also being called metal. We instead create fusion genres like metalcore, melodeath, etc.

Hop off your high horse sonny.

 

[TheRightToArmBears]

To be honest, that kind of thing is so common I don't even pick up on it anymore. Accept that most people don't like metal, quite understandably too, and that it's hard to distingiush things you don't know. For example, there are plenty of different eras and styles of classical music, all quite different if you're into classical, but I couldn't tell you which is which.

However, the people who go around saying 'DATZ NOT METULZ!' to any band that doesn't suit their tastes are more annoying. Even though I don't personally like them, Bullet For My Valentine and the like are metal.

 

[SovietX]

I've not found any metal I enjoy listening to. I've tried a wide variety, though I couldn't tell you the name of the bands because I've long forgotten them.

Screamo is also known as Hardcore, which is a load of crap.

By who? Hardcore means hardcore punk to me. So I think of Minor Threat, early Husker Du, Black Flag, Bad Brains, and many others that mostly came from within or right around the 80s.

Black flag is more of a early grindcore band I think. Or hard punk. Oh and when I said "Load of crap" I mean its a load of crap for the hardcore bands, being associated with screamo. Screamo is basically a bunch of angsty teenagers with emo haircuts yelling.

 

[SovietX]

Lol, you say "judgment" as if there's something to prove after telling me it's opinion.

And your entire case is based around one point: it has breakdowns it's screamo. News flash: death metal has breakdowns (even Carcass has them) and they do not disqualify a band from also being called metal. We instead create fusion genres like metalcore, melodeath, etc.

Hop off your high horse sonny.

Sigh.. Stop taking segments of my text and taking it out of context, I was explaining the song structure behind the screamo genre, The pitch plays a bigger part but its typically a rising scale, bridge then breakdown. Im not saying its an incorrect way to compose songs, im just showing the diference. My argument is that the genre Metal is not related to Screamo, Screamo isnt metal, its a sub genre of metal, and this thread if I remember correctly is about the association of Screamo with metal. Now, if the OP meant Metal as a whole or just the single Metal genre it changes the context of all the discussions on this thread.
tl;dr - Was explaining typical song structure of screamo, similar but not a typical composition for the genre 'Metal' It is suitable as its on genre as a sub genre of metal.

 

[zehydra]

I hate screamcore, screamo whatever. I actually just hate anything that's done because "it's hardcore". I like some Metal (Alice in Chains, some Nirvana), and more classic Metal.

Often times I enjoy blends of metal and some other genre too, like with Porcupine Tree. They have psychedelic rock + metal in a number of their songs.

Nirvana's not metal!

you're right. As a whole, they're not metal. But they do have some metal songs, especially in the first and third albums. It's really more like a hybrid of metal and punk.

 

[Hairetos]

Lol, you say "judgment" as if there's something to prove after telling me it's opinion.

And your entire case is based around one point: it has breakdowns it's screamo. News flash: death metal has breakdowns (even Carcass has them) and they do not disqualify a band from also being called metal. We instead create fusion genres like metalcore, melodeath, etc.

Hop off your high horse sonny.

Sigh.. Stop taking segments of my text and taking it out of context, I was explaining the song structure behind the screamo genre, The pitch plays a bigger part but its typically a rising scale, bridge then breakdown. Im not saying its an incorrect way to compose songs, im just showing the diference. My argument is that the genre Metal is not related to Screamo, Screamo isnt metal, its a sub genre of metal, and this thread if I remember correctly is about the association of Screamo with metal. Now, if the OP meant Metal as a whole or just the single Metal genre it changes the context of all the discussions on this thread.
tl;dr - Was explaining typical song structure of screamo, similar but not a typical composition for the genre 'Metal' It is suitable as its on genre as a sub genre of metal.

Except that you're not right. You can claim all of these facts, but that's not how screamo is classified. Yes, screamo has breakdowns, and yes it even has the progression you mentioned. So does anything with a -core attachment because it's a trait originally from HARDCORE. Which brings me to my next point in that screamo is not a sub-genre of metal, it's a sub-genre of hardcore, which is a derivative of punk. Hardcore is then incorporated into metal to form fusion genres, which was my original contention over you calling Parkway Drive screamo, not metalcore.

EDIT: here's wikipedia to corroborate my point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screamo

 

[Ironic Pirate]

A good post, except that I don't think Groove and Metalcore are the same.

Metalcore is Hardcore Punk + metal, and Groove is very heavy, with slow, thick riffs. Later Pantera, some Machine Head, that sort of thing. With your system, it'd fall under both Thrash and Doom, mostly thrash though.

Well i may be wrong there, but i find Pantera's style of music sounding like Metalcore alot.

Some bands are closely related for sure, not to say thats bad or anything.

There's some overlap, definitely. Lamb of God is both, for example. Metalcore is kind of a faster, punkier groove metal, with alternating screaming/singing vocals. And then some metalcore isn't groovy at all, like early Avenged Sevenfold and Bullet for my Valentine.

 

[Musiclly enhanced]

i hate music nowerdays its all this pop dubstep crap and i love rock n metal etc
but it annoys me how people think that a band like AC/DC are screamo and metallica
they are rock or metal screamo is just depressing screams with a bass drum played really fast

 

[kinapuffar]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Eh I've heard your nonsense from more ignorant people than I can count, I've long since given up caring about this tired, old cliche. Fact is you are the one that is missing out. Even discounting the extreme technical proficiency that is required to play the stereotypical, fast paced death metal that you are referring to, the more musically respected genres of metal (technical death metal, progressive metal and neoclassical metal to name but a few) contain (with the exception of classical and jazz) the most complex musical compositions around right now. You don't get anywhere in these genres without having a profound understanding of music, they use everything at their disposal; key changes, odd time signatures, time changes, arpeggios as well as many types of modes and scales to form some real musical masterpieces. There are many metal guitar riffs that could easily become the base melody for a classical piece, in fact there's neoclassical metal which is basically classical music sped up, with only limited (or even without) orchestra.

I wont deny that there are some real garbage metal bands out there that do nothing musically and just burn your ears with tired, old power chords, growls and tremolo picking but because of metals' huge scope there are sooo many bands out there that combine technical playing as well as vast musical knowledge to create songs that are a mix of fast-paced intensity and high level musical composition, that is just awesome.

I get that people are turned off by the intensity, but there's no reason any rational human being who has spent more than a moment researching with an open mind would think metal isn't music.

That's what you assume. I used to listen exclusively to metal back when I was 15 or so.
But then I grew up and stopped feeling sorry for myself.
Playing fast doesn't equal playing well. Music is a matter of muscle memory, and musical skill is about the sound, not the technique.

 

[Zeriah]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Eh I've heard your nonsense from more ignorant people than I can count, I've long since given up caring about this tired, old cliche. Fact is you are the one that is missing out. Even discounting the extreme technical proficiency that is required to play the stereotypical, fast paced death metal that you are referring to, the more musically respected genres of metal (technical death metal, progressive metal and neoclassical metal to name but a few) contain (with the exception of classical and jazz) the most complex musical compositions around right now. You don't get anywhere in these genres without having a profound understanding of music, they use everything at their disposal; key changes, odd time signatures, time changes, arpeggios as well as many types of modes and scales to form some real musical masterpieces. There are many metal guitar riffs that could easily become the base melody for a classical piece, in fact there's neoclassical metal which is basically classical music sped up, with only limited (or even without) orchestra.

I wont deny that there are some real garbage metal bands out there that do nothing musically and just burn your ears with tired, old power chords, growls and tremolo picking but because of metals' huge scope there are sooo many bands out there that combine technical playing as well as vast musical knowledge to create songs that are a mix of fast-paced intensity and high level musical composition, that is just awesome.

I get that people are turned off by the intensity, but there's no reason any rational human being who has spent more than a moment researching with an open mind would think metal isn't music.

That's what you assume. I used to listen exclusively to metal back when I was 15 or so.
But then I grew up and stopped feeling sorry for myself.

Playing fast doesn't equal playing well. Music is a matter of muscle memory, and musical skill is about the sound, not the technique.

Or (and this is far more likely) you were just listening to some bad metal. Also almost my entire post ignored the high speed technique of metal and focused on the composition. If you honestly believe that some lame hipster rock indie douche makes better music than guys like Buckethead, Yngwie Malmsteen, John Petrucci, Dave Mustaine etc then I don't know what to say. The only guys that make more complex, in depth compositions are Jazz and Classical composers.

I mean you can dislike metal, it's a genre that's extremely easy to dislike. But to say that it isn't even music, or that it's all a skill-less, untalented mess useful only for teens to piss off their parents is about as far from the truth as you can get (unless you are talking about Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Slipknot or Bullet for my Valentine).

 

[kinapuffar]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Eh I've heard your nonsense from more ignorant people than I can count, I've long since given up caring about this tired, old cliche. Fact is you are the one that is missing out. Even discounting the extreme technical proficiency that is required to play the stereotypical, fast paced death metal that you are referring to, the more musically respected genres of metal (technical death metal, progressive metal and neoclassical metal to name but a few) contain (with the exception of classical and jazz) the most complex musical compositions around right now. You don't get anywhere in these genres without having a profound understanding of music, they use everything at their disposal; key changes, odd time signatures, time changes, arpeggios as well as many types of modes and scales to form some real musical masterpieces. There are many metal guitar riffs that could easily become the base melody for a classical piece, in fact there's neoclassical metal which is basically classical music sped up, with only limited (or even without) orchestra.

I wont deny that there are some real garbage metal bands out there that do nothing musically and just burn your ears with tired, old power chords, growls and tremolo picking but because of metals' huge scope there are sooo many bands out there that combine technical playing as well as vast musical knowledge to create songs that are a mix of fast-paced intensity and high level musical composition, that is just awesome.

I get that people are turned off by the intensity, but there's no reason any rational human being who has spent more than a moment researching with an open mind would think metal isn't music.

That's what you assume. I used to listen exclusively to metal back when I was 15 or so.
But then I grew up and stopped feeling sorry for myself.

Playing fast doesn't equal playing well. Music is a matter of muscle memory, and musical skill is about the sound, not the technique.

Or (and this is far more likely) you were just listening to some bad metal. Also almost my entire post ignored the high speed technique of metal and focused on the composition. If you honestly believe that some lame hipster rock indie douche makes better music than guys like Buckethead, Yngwie Malmsteen, John Petrucci, Dave Mustaine etc then I don't know what to say. The only guys that make more complex, in depth compositions are Jazz and Classical composers.

I mean you can dislike metal, it's a genre that's extremely easy to dislike. But to say that it isn't even music, or that it's all a skill-less, untalented mess useful only for teens to piss off their parents is about as far from the truth as you can get (unless you are talking about Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Slipknot or Bullet for my Valentine).

Django Reinhardt.
Metal is a broad term, I'm talking specifically about the kinds of metal where people do nothing but growl and scream. I guess everything that ends with the word CORE.
Or starts with Death, or Black.

 

[Zeriah]

Metal isn't even music. When push comes to shove, it's not an attempt to create something, it's just there to piss off your parents. A bland form of rebellion for the children trapped in their middle-class, suburban nightmare.

Eh I've heard your nonsense from more ignorant people than I can count, I've long since given up caring about this tired, old cliche. Fact is you are the one that is missing out. Even discounting the extreme technical proficiency that is required to play the stereotypical, fast paced death metal that you are referring to, the more musically respected genres of metal (technical death metal, progressive metal and neoclassical metal to name but a few) contain (with the exception of classical and jazz) the most complex musical compositions around right now. You don't get anywhere in these genres without having a profound understanding of music, they use everything at their disposal; key changes, odd time signatures, time changes, arpeggios as well as many types of modes and scales to form some real musical masterpieces. There are many metal guitar riffs that could easily become the base melody for a classical piece, in fact there's neoclassical metal which is basically classical music sped up, with only limited (or even without) orchestra.

I wont deny that there are some real garbage metal bands out there that do nothing musically and just burn your ears with tired, old power chords, growls and tremolo picking but because of metals' huge scope there are sooo many bands out there that combine technical playing as well as vast musical knowledge to create songs that are a mix of fast-paced intensity and high level musical composition, that is just awesome.

I get that people are turned off by the intensity, but there's no reason any rational human being who has spent more than a moment researching with an open mind would think metal isn't music.

That's what you assume. I used to listen exclusively to metal back when I was 15 or so.
But then I grew up and stopped feeling sorry for myself.

Playing fast doesn't equal playing well. Music is a matter of muscle memory, and musical skill is about the sound, not the technique.

Or (and this is far more likely) you were just listening to some bad metal. Also almost my entire post ignored the high speed technique of metal and focused on the composition. If you honestly believe that some lame hipster rock indie douche makes better music than guys like Buckethead, Yngwie Malmsteen, John Petrucci, Dave Mustaine etc then I don't know what to say. The only guys that make more complex, in depth compositions are Jazz and Classical composers.

I mean you can dislike metal, it's a genre that's extremely easy to dislike. But to say that it isn't even music, or that it's all a skill-less, untalented mess useful only for teens to piss off their parents is about as far from the truth as you can get (unless you are talking about Avenged Sevenfold, Disturbed, Slipknot or Bullet for my Valentine).

Django Reinhardt.
Metal is a broad term, I'm talking specifically about the kinds of metal where people do nothing but growl and scream. I guess everything that ends with the word CORE.
Or starts with Death, or Black.

Yeah I would actually agree with anything ending with Core (just because of how basic it is, "derp I can make power chords and break downs herp derp"), but Death and Black? Nope. There's some insane Death Metal bands out there; Necrophagist, Vital Remains, Arsis, Opeth etc etc. Black Metal is different, it's more about creating a "tone" or "feeling", rather than simply melody - though that doesn't mean it's not music. At the end of the day it seems like you believe growls are for some reason, juvenile and just dismiss any music with them in it - which is fine for personal taste but when you say ridiculous things like "it isn't music" just because you don't like them just makes you seem foolish. This isn't even debatable, metal (as long as you are listening to the right things) has some insane musical compositions that only Jazz and Classical outdo, as well the most technically proficient players in music. To say it isn't music is just laughable.

Also what's with Django Reinhardt in your post? Are you trying to say he makes better compositions than metal guys? If so I agree, I've been saying from that start that Jazz and Classical guys are still a cut above most Metal bands when it comes to composition.