Metroid dread reviews are coming in at 6 a.m. Pacific time, let us have a thread about the game.

[Specter Von Baren]

So I've met Quiet Robe. I'm...extremely mixed on this.

From a writing perspective, this is a blatant info-dump with a character that's had no introduction, and he's promptly killed off as soon as that introduction is given. And poor guy, Samus really doesn't give a shit after looking at his body. The second living chozo she's seen since the Zebesian chozo were wiped out, and one apparently of the same tribe that raised her, and...yeah, she doesn't care.

On the other, the revelations as to what Raven Beak and the Mawkin were up to, plus the notion of an X disguising itself...these are nice revelations. It arguably ties in with the wider series as a whole, the idea that multiple groups have tried to control the metroids (the Space Pirates, the Federation, the Mawkin), and each attempt has ended with failure. For a series that obstensibly takes inspiration from 'Alien', it's an idea that's rue to the source material.

Oh, and that chozo robot. Yikes. Fun, but yikes.



I know Ridley's dead, but by the time of his final death on Zebes, he's been 'killed' four times prior, and there's nary an explanation to be had as to why. Nor is there any in-universe speculation as to why (as far as I'm aware).

I don't think Mother Brain is as egregious as the others, as being a machine, it's easy enough to say that she's repaired, but what's Ripley's excuse? And if, by Samus Returns, Samus knows that Ridley keeps coming back, maybe leaving him on the surface of SR388 wasn't the best idea in the world?

But heck, at least we know how Ridley was cloned for Other M, and by extension, how the X copied him in Fusion. So what's the excuse for Kraid? Because if he can survive a planet blowing up, then Samus shouldn't be able to scratch him.

Ridley came back in Prime thanks to the Space Pirates giving him cybernetic enhancements after OG Metroid. When he is defeated in Prime he falls into the Phazon crater and in the third Prime game he comes back as a Phazon infused Ridley with regenerated body parts thanks to the morphogenic nature of Phazon, in Samus Returns he has overcome his Phazon corruption or Samus destroying the source of Phazon caused all Phazon to dissipate (I haven't played the third Prime in a while so I'm fuzzy on this) and we see him ditch his remaining cybernetics in the ending scene of Samus Returns for Super Metroid.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I think it's unfair to say that Samus doesn't care. The scene has her armors face being it's normal opaque green. I think you get to choose how Samus feels.

 

[CriticalGaming]

I think it's unfair to say that Samus doesn't care. The scene has her armors face being it's normal opaque green. I think you get to choose how Samus feels.

Can I choose to believe that she is an insatiable horn-dog and is only after aliens in order to try and fulfill some hentai tenticle fantasy?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Can I choose to believe that she is an insatiable horn-dog and is only after aliens in order to try and fulfill some hentai tenticle fantasy?

Says more about you than her

 

[CriticalGaming]

Says more about you than her

That's not a "no" though

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

That's not a "no" though

Being off putting is not the same as interesting

 

[CriticalGaming]

Being off putting is not the same as interesting

Well she has no personality at all, and you just said that the player can infer whatever personality and motives to her that we want. So regardless of how you feel about my idea for her motives, it doesnt matter. In the case of a nothing-protagonist, it's whatever is interesting to the player current in control right?

Samus I think is destined to be one of those debated video game characters in who she is really supposed to be. For a while she was a silent protagonist that people didn't even know was a girl for most, unless they saw the reveal at the end of supe rmetroid or saw it later online. And in most games which feature her, she's just a suit of armor running around doing stuff. No motivation outside of the surrounding events presented in a given game.

The one game she was voiced and given real life in, Other M (I think) sucked. Or at least fans didn't like it as muched as when she kept her mouth shut. Turns out the vision of Samus built up in the fan's head over years of being silent could never be lived up too once Nintendo finally decided to voice her which is probably why they never did it again....I think.

 

[Dalisclock]

The one game she was voiced and given real life in, Other M (I think) sucked. Or at least fans didn't like it as muched as when she kept her mouth shut. Turns out the vision of Samus built up in the fan's head over years of being silent could never be lived up too once Nintendo finally decided to voice her which is probably why they never did it again....I think.

From what I saw of other M, it's both the fact that in English, it sounds like she has severe mommy issues(for a Space Jellyfish parasite, no less) but also has this weird hang up on Adam where she refuses to do basic shit because "Adam didn't order it". This is despite the fact she doesn't work for him, so it comes across as being a woman subordinate to a man just because. Also, the English VA...could have been better.

I've heard in Japanese the connotation is different and this was screwed by the English VA and translation but I don't know for sure.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Literally has a voice in Dread, used it immediately before the cutscene in question. There's a few select moments of voice-less physical acting approving the end too.

Choosing to jump into a conversation about her potential feelings or lack thereof about the scene where she's in the presence of a murdered friendly during a mission that's gone catastrophically wrong with "I bet she's indescribably horny for tentacle monsters" is...are you doing okay?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

From what I saw of other M, it's both the fact that in English, it sounds like she has severe mommy issues(for a Space Jellyfish parasite, no less) but also has this weird hang up on Adam where she refuses to do basic shit because "Adam didn't order it". This is despite the fact she doesn't work for him, so it comes across as being a woman subordinate to a man just because. Also, the English VA...could have been better.

I've heard in Japanese the connotation is different and this was screwed by the English VA and translation but I don't know for sure.

I've heard that the Japanese VA and cultural norms made Samus seem more...dismissive would be the characterization, I guess? But it doesn't really change anything about her actions, doesn't really change any of the important cutscenes, and the English VA was supervised by the same guy regardless so I dunno if it changes much.

And it'll never excuse the hell run for the varia suit

 

[Hawki]

Ridley came back in Prime thanks to the Space Pirates giving him cybernetic enhancements after OG Metroid. When he is defeated in Prime he falls into the Phazon crater and in the third Prime game he comes back as a Phazon infused Ridley with regenerated body parts thanks to the morphogenic nature of Phazon, in Samus Returns he has overcome his Phazon corruption or Samus destroying the source of Phazon caused all Phazon to dissipate (I haven't played the third Prime in a while so I'm fuzzy on this) and we see him ditch his remaining cybernetics in the ending scene of Samus Returns for Super Metroid.

Is that actually confirmed though, or speculation? Because given the order the games were released in, it hardly seems planned.

I think it's unfair to say that Samus doesn't care. The scene has her armors face being it's normal opaque green. I think you get to choose how Samus feels.

Okay, but you could apply that logic to any protagonist.

I'll grant you that when the robot shoots Quiet Robe, Samus looks pissed for a second, but the opaque visor, if anything, suggests indifference. And while there's a lot in the universe that Samus might be indifferent to, I'm not sure if that would extend to the chozo.

Well she has no personality at all, and you just said that the player can infer whatever personality and motives to her that we want. So regardless of how you feel about my idea for her motives, it doesnt matter. In the case of a nothing-protagonist, it's whatever is interesting to the player current in control right?

Samus I think is destined to be one of those debated video game characters in who she is really supposed to be. For a while she was a silent protagonist that people didn't even know was a girl for most, unless they saw the reveal at the end of supe rmetroid or saw it later online. And in most games which feature her, she's just a suit of armor running around doing stuff. No motivation outside of the surrounding events presented in a given game.

The one game she was voiced and given real life in, Other M (I think) sucked. Or at least fans didn't like it as muched as when she kept her mouth shut. Turns out the vision of Samus built up in the fan's head over years of being silent could never be lived up too once Nintendo finally decided to voice her which is probably why they never did it again....I think.

We can infer quite a bit of Samus without being voiced, but even casting aside the manga, she had a fleshed out personality in Fusion, well before Other M, which included dialogue.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Okay, but you could apply that logic to any protagonist.

I'll grant you that when the robot shoots Quiet Robe, Samus looks pissed for a second, but the opaque visor, if anything, suggests indifference. And while there's a lot in the universe that Samus might be indifferent to, I'm not sure if that would extend to the chozo.

If you want to interpret that as indifferent, I can't stop you. I didn't, but like, what was she gonna do, shoot him a grave in the building's floor? Besides, they're hopefully very skittish about deciding to show Samus's emotional state in any sort of definitive manner considering the Other M fiasco

 

[Hawki]

If you want to interpret that as indifferent, I can't stop you. I didn't, but like, what was she gonna do, shoot him a grave in the building's floor?

I can think of a number of ways:

-Kneeling down and closing Quiet Robe's eyes.

-Standing over his body/kneeling down over it, whispering something that we can interpret as a prayer

-Show Samus's eyes as she looks down over his body. Have head and/or eye movement (e.g. turning to the side, closing eyes), conveying emotional anguish

-Show Samus clasping her fist

None of this is out of sync with Samus's character, even going solely by the games. Remember in Zero Mission, where she recollects her time with Old Bird? How she's seen closing her eyes, before opening them again, a look of resolve on her face? There's multiple ways you can convey emotion through simple body language.

Besides, they're hopefully very skittish about deciding to show Samus's emotional state in any sort of definitive manner considering the Other M fiasco

I'm aware of the fiasco over Samus's characterization in Other M, and I don't think it's unwarranted. That said, Samus has been emotional outside Other M, even if not to that extent. Again, see Zero Mission and Fusion. See the manga. Even see Samus Returns when she spares the hatchling, after keeping her gun trained on it before finally lowering it, and extending her palm.

Considering that in Dread, Samus has encountered two living chozo for the first time since Zebes, that Quiet Robe is apparently from the tribe that raised her, and that she's seen him gunned down before her very eyes, I don't think a bit of emotional angst would be out of character.

 

[Specter Von Baren]

Is that actually confirmed though, or speculation? Because given the order the games were released in, it hardly seems planned.



Okay, but you could apply that logic to any protagonist.

I'll grant you that when the robot shoots Quiet Robe, Samus looks pissed for a second, but the opaque visor, if anything, suggests indifference. And while there's a lot in the universe that Samus might be indifferent to, I'm not sure if that would extend to the chozo.



We can infer quite a bit of Samus without being voiced, but even casting aside the manga, she had a fleshed out personality in Fusion, well before Other M, which included dialogue.

The Prime series was said to take place between Metroid 1 and 2 from the get go. It was always known that Ridley was going to have to survive so he could show up in Super Metroid.

 

[Elvis Starburst]

So, Game Maker's Toolkit posted a video on Metroid Dread's game design in this lovely series he calls Boss Keys. The whole video is great, and I highly recommend watching it all, cause it's got tons of stuff I didn't even notice the game doing. But I love this one particular part...


Time stamped at 12:52, he starts going into a bit of an overview of his experience. At 13:09, he talks about how even with the game's tricks to guide you, it's not always 100% effective with everyone, which is true. And at 13:16, he talks about people "getting stuck in a room and proclaiming it a crime against game design"... specifically showing footage of the room David Jaffe was stuck in and complaining about in the video Samtendo8 posted at page 4 of this thread.

I totally agree, not everyone will get it or have the mindset for this sort of thing, and that's not completely their fault. But... I love the shade being thrown~ Dude has not been afraid to make a statement or opinion known in some of his more recent videos

 

[Dalisclock]

So, Game Maker's toolkit posted a video on Metroid Dread's game design in this lovely series he calls Boss Keys. The whole video is great, and I highly recommend watching it all, cause it's got tons of stuff I didn't even notice the game doing. But I love this one particular part...


Time stamped at 12:52, he starts going into a bit of an overview of his experience. At 13:09, he talks about how even with the game's tricks to guide you, it's not always 100% effect with everyone, which is true. And at 13:16, he talks about people "getting stuck in a room and proclaiming it a crime against game design"... specifically showing footage of the room David Jaffe was stuck in and complaining about in the video Samtendo8 posted at page 4 of this thread.

I totally agree, not everyone will get it or have the mindset for this sort of thing, and that's not completely their fault. But... I love the shade being thrown~ Dude has not been afraid to make a statement or opinion known in some of his more recent videos

Boss Keys is an excellent series and I honestly recommend it to anyone interested in level design in video games. He covers Metroid, Zelda(like most if not all of them), Dark Souls(just the first game), Hollow Knight and I think a few others as well

GMTK is also fun to watch in general.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Welp, she's big. Lotta detail you only see for a couple seconds as you're exploding

 

[Hades]

Also, the English VA...could have been better.

Indeed she could have. But when she was better Sakamoto and the direction team shot her down and said she needed to go be a lot worse which was the take they eventually went with.

 

[Hawki]

So I've played some more of Dread. I'm just past the point where the X have been released from containment. Overall, my opinion on the game has shifted slightly - it slinks into the category of "good" rather than just "okay," but if I had to rank every Metroid game I played right now, including Dread, it would lurk somewhere in the middle.

Anyway, random thoughts:

-Loved the water monster fight. Took me awhile to realize that you needed to lower the water level to beat it. It's well designed.

-I'm really mixed on the X visually here - they're so colourful that they look out of place with the more drab aesthetic of the game. Maybe it's intentional? Also, what's with the black goop all of a sudden? Did the X parasites meet Venom?

-I'll give credit to the chozo mini-bosses, both the ones with the arm cannon, and the spear-wielding chozo (which game me Stargate flashbacks to the Jaffa, BTW). From a gameplay standpoint, they're good, challenging bosses. From a lore standpoint, while it isn't commented on, it does kind of convey how badass the chozo are/could be (or at least the Mawkin). Just one of these guys decked out in armour is a match for Samus, so imagine a whole army of them. If anything, there's more, um, 'dread' with the chozo bosses than there are with the EMMIs.

-Oh hey, Quiet Robe's back, uttering stuff that's in no way macabre, and gives him a role beyond exposition. Well done, Dread. Well played...

Anyway, the game's gotten better, so hopefully it'll stay that way.

 

[Hades]

-Loved the water monster fight. Took me awhile to realize that you needed to lower the water level to beat it. It's well designed.

I liked him too but only in the sense that he was a refreshing change of phase which how easy he was. His attacks are very teleprompted, he doesn't have additional phases and he dies kinda quickly. That was a welcome change after Kraid and mister first boss, who required several tries.