Microsoft Addresses Xbox One Concerns

[Genocidicles]

I'll address your last point first... that's already been debunked. It's not a "corporate surveillance camera" any more than the original Kinect. If you truly think the Kinect is playing HAL and watching you/recording you, you might be little paranoid. http://winsupersite.com/xbox/xbox-one-privacy-concerns-debunked

You might want to see this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.409948-NSA-Harvests-Facebook-Google-Apple-User-Data-Secret-Files-Claim

Microsoft is no stranger to handing out user information. The Kinect is just another avenue for them to collect such data.

Also I don't want to get caught drinking a pepsi and then suddenly get drowned in pepsi ads, which is mainly what the Kinect will be used for.

As for your first point, fair enough. True, what if I want to play my games 20 years from now? Probably not likely but it's definitely a plausible scenario. They seem to be going more the route of digital distribution. I'll spin the question around... what if Steam isn't available in 20 years? You lose access to your games? I see the same problem happening outside of just the Xbox One. This problem isn't specific to Microsoft - it's digital distribution in general.

Well I was talking about it in comparison to other consoles that don't require an internet connection, but seeing as you brought up Steam I'll explain why it's not the case for Steam/

First of all, Valve has said that in the event of Steam going down, they'll make it possible for everyone to get their games working without Steam. Not a 100% guarantee, but it's more than Microsoft has said and will likely do.

Secondly, Steam is the most successful digital distribution platform. The chance of it going down are incredibly slim.

Thirdly, Steam won't be taken down by Valve so they can make a Steam 2.

Finally, In the event of Steam going down and Valve deciding to be assholes and not letting people keep their games, there are plenty of... *ahem* other, less legal methods of getting your games back for free.

 

[A-D.]

I actually dont understand why Consoles are still a thing. And im not trying to be "Hur dur PC gaming master race" here, just..think about this logically. More and more have consoles moved away from being easy to use gaming platforms. It started basicly after the PS2, suddenly you had "online multiplayer", more and more features, hulu, netflix, internet browsers. Over time, Consoles became basicly like a PC already is, except pretty shitty given that they tend to be outdated 6 months to a 1 year after their initial release.

So my question is really, why would you buy a console, especially a xbone, if it basicly works like a PC, has all the drawbacks of a PC, but has no upside for you. You dont get better hardware, you dont get relatively-drm-free games, you dont get..anything that makes a console viable. The Xbone is just a really shitty PC, its basicly what MS would turn the PC platform into if they could (they tried, didnt work), so why anyone would consider buying one is beyond me, though i also dont really get why people in general would buy a console if they basicly could get a PC for the same price since the features are basicly the same by now.

 

[lovest harding]

As for your first point, fair enough. True, what if I want to play my games 20 years from now? Probably not likely but it's definitely a plausible scenario. They seem to be going more the route of digital distribution. I'll spin the question around... what if Steam isn't available in 20 years? You lose access to your games? I see the same problem happening outside of just the Xbox One. This problem isn't specific to Microsoft - it's digital distribution in general.

Well I was talking about it in comparison to other consoles that don't require an internet connection, but seeing as you brought up Steam I'll explain why it's not the case for Steam/

First of all, Valve has said that in the event of Steam going down, they'll make it possible for everyone to get their games working without Steam. Not a 100% guarantee, but it's more than Microsoft has said and will likely do.

Secondly, Steam is the most successful digital distribution platform. The chance of it going down are incredibly slim.

Thirdly, Steam won't be taken down by Valve so they can make a Steam 2.

Finally, In the event of Steam going down and Valve deciding to be assholes and not letting people keep their games, there are plenty of... *ahem* other, less legal methods of getting your games back for free.

I also want to include (to Genocidicles fine points) that Xbox One games AREN'T all distributed digitally. That means the physical copies will be as useless 20 years as the digital games. So that disc you bought that has all the data for the game on it becomes useless even if you still have a working Xbox One.
That's where 'licensing games' comes in to play. And I don't know about you, but that kind of thinking smells like bullshit to me. If there were DVDs that only work on a specific DVD player made by a specific company and only as long as that DVD player was connected to the internet (an internet connection that also had a minimum speed requirement), there'd be even less DVD sales and far less people trying to justify bad business practices that don't take into account the actual consumers.

 

[Midniqht]

I'll address your last point first... that's already been debunked. It's not a "corporate surveillance camera" any more than the original Kinect. If you truly think the Kinect is playing HAL and watching you/recording you, you might be little paranoid. http://winsupersite.com/xbox/xbox-one-privacy-concerns-debunked

You might want to see this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.409948-NSA-Harvests-Facebook-Google-Apple-User-Data-Secret-Files-Claim

Microsoft is no stranger to handing out user information. The Kinect is just another avenue for them to collect such data.

Also I don't want to get caught drinking a pepsi and then suddenly get drowned in pepsi ads, which is mainly what the Kinect will be used for.

According to that article, Microsoft didn't just dole out information without actual warranted cause. MS is hardly at the focus of that article anyway, and reading too much into by saying "See? The NSA is going to force MS to have the Kinect record us!" is a huge mental leap in logic.

The statement comes across as super paranoid. If MS does somehow end up "watching you" while you're minding your own business and drinking a Pepsi, I'll buy you a beer, because that's when the robots have taken over. People are so afraid of "big brother" that the jumps in logic are crazy.

 

[Xisin]

It is now confirmed that I will not be purchasing an xbone. I buy games on consoles because I can play them offline and I can borrow from friends. Also, where has couch co-op been hiding? If a console trumpeted that tag line, I would buy it in a heart beat.

 

[Idlemessiah]

snip

New PS3 slims have already fallen dramitically in price and are looking like a good option for now.

Wow you're right. Might treat myself on payday at this rate. Certainly more likely to happen than me investing in an xbone, heh.

 

[kamay]

I live in a 40 year old house that has ZERO ethernet cables wired through it.
So either I a) only use the xbox one near my router (which is in a really bad spot not by choice) b) run exposed ethernet cables through my house (which I'm sure my wife would love) or c) xbone comes with a free wifi adaptor

And even if i just put my xbone in the room beside my router, kinect won't work because the room is super narrow - like 6ft across narrow.

Looks like I am taking my business elsewhere.

 

[faefrost]

I'm usually a lurker here at the Escapist but this thread has prompted me to break the silence.

While there are many real concerns and intelligent points raised among the reactionary comments expressed within this thread, I have to say I think a lot of you are a little blinkered amidst the real fury being directed at Microsoft .

The fact of the matter is that Sony and many publishers for the PC platform have been edging towards this same practise for a while now. There's real money to be had by selling us our entertainment as a 'service' rather than allowing us to own our entertainment in perpetuity like we've always been able to up to now. Games are not the only things affected here - TV, Movies, and even Music is following this same line of thinking and if taken to it's ultimate conclusion we will find that as consumers we lose control over what we can do with our entertainment while still paying as much, or even more, than we ever did to use it.

Think Sony is different in this case? Want to jump to the PS4 as a reaction to MS admitting that this is where their strategy is going? I think you should hold your horses because Sony want to pull the same BS that MS have just done (but haven't been brave enough to admit that openly yet). EA, Ubisoft and the like clearly want to sell a 'service' to you too - this approach gives the publishers and providers all the control and allows them to market to you in any way they see fit.

THIS PRACTISE IS BAD FOR ALL OF US AS CONSUMERS

I've been watching the froth and fury over the Xbox One for some time now and have convinced my friends to not believe the half truths and hype. With Major Neilson's announcement I am saddened to see that many of the fears expressed before (and immediately after) launch do seem to be true. I only hope that the backlash this is creating cause Sony and many software publishers to think again about the path they are trying to lead us down. Hell, I hope Microsoft see how unhappy this is making consumers and think again before launch. As cynical as it sounds, however, I don't think this will be the case but that will (hopefully) be their loss.


Now, I've been a big gamer for several decades. I started on the C64 and have played games on just about every platform since. I watched piracy kill the Amiga. I avoided the over-hyped plastic brick that was the Xbox and remained with Sony happily. I watched in disbelief as Sony screwed up the PSN and happily paid for the Xbox live service as a result. I lament what Xbox 360 has become with my dashboard now more advertisement than anything else on a service I ALREADY PAY FOR. I hate having to spend lots of cash on a PC every year to be able to play the latest games because software devs are too damned lazy or put under too damned tight deadlines to optimise their code properly........I love console gaming and want it to continue but this incoming generation makes me fear that the age of no-advertising, pay-and-do-what-you-will, easy access gaming is over.

We as consumers must stand firm against abhorrent business practises and fight to ensure that we get the solutions we want. More than ever before we need to stop bitching, whining and moaning and speak with a unified, consistent voice and tell these businesses in the strongest terms that we DO NOT WANT this sort of thing and will not put up with it for the carrot of exclusives or simply because 'that's the way gaming is heading'. I live in hope that we can reverse this trend because if we simply let this happen and allow all our games to be sold to us as a service, accepting whatever connectivity or payment BS publishers throw at us we will find that there will be no way back to being able to game when you want, how you want on the platform you prefer.

While I wait for more details before making a final judgement, right now I have to say NO to Xbox one.......and I am saddened by that.

I will mostly agree with this, with one key caveat, that leaves me with a little hope for SONY. At the root of all of our raving and fury with Microsoft and the XBone, and for that matter Windows 8, is the loss of choice and control. Users do not ave an issue with consoles being connected to the Internet. Users don't have a problem with actually paying the producers of said materials. For the most part we view these as good things. And as others have pointed out much of what MS is doing is in some ways similar to Steam or Apple, or Amazon, etc. but here is the key thing. In all of those cases, the choice and the control remains with the user. The service entices the user by offering strong net positives to the user. SONYs PSN+ is a good example. It is wholly optional. But for some the benefits make it worthwhile. I have a benefit for connecting my console online, but it is not mandated that I do so. As a long time PC gamer, I like that Steam essentially allows me to store my games library elsewhere and easily migrate it to new hardware without needing a collection of 20 year old cd's. that it a tangible benefit that entices me to the service. But using the service does not limit or restrict me from using my hardware or property in other ways. It does not remove my control.

MS is removing the users ability to control their property. That's bad. Now I am not yet convinced that SONY will leap down that same path. Most of SONY's design history has run counter to that philosophy, and when they have headed that way they have typically been badly burned. (PsPGo?) I suspect that the PS4 will work without an online connection, but it will lose many key features when doing so. The heavy courting of Independent Developers by SONY leads me to suspect that they will be instead pushing to build a deep digital content pool that will entice users to come to them, rather than forcing them to. The only thing in this I am betting we will see from SONY is some sort of restriction on used games. I don't think this approach is entirely comming fromMS. I think some of the big publishers are forcing it, with EA topping the heap.

 

[faefrost]

I'll address your last point first... that's already been debunked. It's not a "corporate surveillance camera" any more than the original Kinect. If you truly think the Kinect is playing HAL and watching you/recording you, you might be little paranoid. http://winsupersite.com/xbox/xbox-one-privacy-concerns-debunked

You might want to see this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/7.409948-NSA-Harvests-Facebook-Google-Apple-User-Data-Secret-Files-Claim

Microsoft is no stranger to handing out user information. The Kinect is just another avenue for them to collect such data.

Also I don't want to get caught drinking a pepsi and then suddenly get drowned in pepsi ads, which is mainly what the Kinect will be used for.

According to that article, Microsoft didn't just dole out information without actual warranted cause. MS is hardly at the focus of that article anyway, and reading too much into by saying "See? The NSA is going to force MS to have the Kinect record us!" is a huge mental leap in logic.

The statement comes across as super paranoid. If MS does somehow end up "watching you" while you're minding your own business and drinking a Pepsi, I'll buy you a beer, because that's when the robots have taken over. People are so afraid of "big brother" that the jumps in logic are crazy.

The Kinnect can track who is in the room and distinguish them. It develops a library of biometric data such as sex, age, etc. it can see what you are looking at on the TV. It can tell your reaction to things by subtle unseeable changes to skin tone. It can track what events on TV you are paying attention to and what you are ignoring. What you like and what you dislike. Can you imagine what marketing people could do with something like this? All for heir purpose and benefit and none for yours?

 

[Azaraxzealot]

You know, you really have to wonder just how goddamn out of touch you have to be to not expect people to flip their shit over this.

Has Microsoft never HEARD of the internet?! Do they not SEE the outrage?! Are they just expecting this to all be us huffing and puffing but at the end of the day we'll still buy it because they think we have no other choice?! HELL FUCKING NO! We still have a myriad of options to play the games we love without this bullshit! Do they think we won't take those options? Even fucking BLU-RAY PLAYERS THEMSELVES are already better at what Xbox One wants to be!

What the fuck do they think is going to happen?! They'll pay Oprah to advertise it and have it sit perpetually at "5 Million Shipped" like the Kinect did?!

All this news about the Xbox One just further vindicates me for being a PC gamer now.

 

[Scherazade]

Anyone who says these policies do not affect them are not thinking long term. Think about it: Any console you currently own can be be played, theoretically, forever. I have a PS1, PS2, PS3 and a 360 and there is absolutely nothing Sony or Microsoft can do to stop me from playing them. Of course there could be future hardware problems so that my consoles brick, but that's not Sony's or Microsoft's problem (I may buy a backup PS3 when the price drops, just in case). What Microsoft just announced is that there is a global expiration date for every game related activity on the Xbone! They can decide one day to just shut it down, and your game library is worthless. They might not do that, but just that they have the power to do it is staggering. I mean, can a developer/publisher decide there newest sequel isn't selling enough and request Microsoft stop validating older titles?

And if someone mentions PC's and Steam, you have to realize that Steam has competitors, even if you include pirates. If something disappears from Steam (or Steam were to be shut down one day) there are still possibilities for acquiring games through a variety of means. Because the Xbone is a closed platform you have no other options. I'm not giving money to Microsoft when any true Xbone exclusive they have may become 100% unplayable at some point in the future.

 

[Genocidicles]

The statement comes across as super paranoid. If MS does somehow end up "watching you" while you're minding your own business and drinking a Pepsi, I'll buy you a beer, because that's when the robots have taken over. People are so afraid of "big brother" that the jumps in logic are crazy.

Why does it have to be connected for the console to function then?

 

[Gray Firion]

And Friends are only able to share a game ONCE?! What if my friends, who for the sake of argument made the spectacularly bad decision of buying a Xbone in the future, want to lend a game to more than 1 friend? They just can't? They BOUGHT it! They should be able to lend it to however many people as they please!

Actually, they will likely not even be able to share a game "once" most of the time, since the wording is ambiguous:

Give your games to friends: Xbox One is designed so game publishers can enable you to give your disc-based games to your friends. There are no fees charged as part of these transfers. There are two requirements: you can only give them to people who have been on your friends list for at least 30 days and each game can only be given once.

See where it says that publishers "can enable you" to give your games to friends? Well, the other side of that is that they can also prevent you too.

Indeed, I see what you're saying.

From the original post here, I went to the links on all 3 sections about the Xbone released by Microsoft. Should have read more first, but as soon as I saw a title reading "Licensing Games" I pretty much lost it. That is wrong, that is not how commerce works. And it's not just that. As you posted: the wording is ambiguous in all points; most are draconic new restrictions disguised as features; a few are "features" we already enjoy without a console; and the rest are outright lies.

I'm grateful for this article, and to you for further detailing Microsofts posts. I know just what to point to others now.

Although to be absolutely fair, thankfully, everyone I know seems to have already heard about the new Xbone's "features".

 

[Midniqht]

The statement comes across as super paranoid. If MS does somehow end up "watching you" while you're minding your own business and drinking a Pepsi, I'll buy you a beer, because that's when the robots have taken over. People are so afraid of "big brother" that the jumps in logic are crazy.

Why does it have to be connected for the console to function then?

It isn't... It's required so much as it comes with the system. You can't buy it without. Quoting another article here:
"Kinect is not required. While the Kinect sensor is a key, integrated component of Xbox One, you?re free to use other inputs to control games, apps, live TV, or other entertainment experiences, such as the Xbox One controller, a remote control, or a smart, connected device (like a tablet running Xbox SmartGlass). The Kinect sensor is designed to be the ?best? (or at least fastest) way of performing certain actions. But it?s optional."

I suspect that because it's a separate piece, you could just not plug it in. [EDIT]: This isn't something that they've specified on so much yet. I suspect waiting until E3 or after might be beneficial for information gathering.

 

[Atmos Duality]

I mean, can a developer/publisher decide there newest sequel isn't selling enough and request Microsoft stop validating older titles?

They totally can.
It's safe to assume they can since Always-Online is done on a per-game basis. If the hardware is capable of detecting and requiring validation for software at that level of discretion (let alone at a per-account-level of discretion), there's no reason to suggest they couldn't turn validation for a specific game off at any time from their end.

Just one of the joys of service-centric gaming; built-in control for planned obsolescence.

 

[Genocidicles]

It isn't... It's required so much as it comes with the system. You can't buy it without. Quoting another article here:
"Kinect is not required. While the Kinect sensor is a key, integrated component of Xbox One, you?re free to use other inputs to control games, apps, live TV, or other entertainment experiences, such as the Xbox One controller, a remote control, or a smart, connected device (like a tablet running Xbox SmartGlass). The Kinect sensor is designed to be the ?best? (or at least fastest) way of performing certain actions. But it?s optional."

I suspect that because it's a separate piece, you could just not plug it in.

Well technically you don't have to use it, but it does have to be plugged in for the console to function. So if you can use the console without having to use Kinect, then why the hell does it have to plugged in?

 

[Bryce323]

I'm not going to beat the dead horse, it has been spectacularly done already. I will publicly say that due to this B$, I'm not getting an Xbone.

There, when Msft does their post-mortem trying to figure out where they went wrong, my dissent will be tallied.

 

[Midniqht]

It isn't... It's required so much as it comes with the system. You can't buy it without. Quoting another article here:
"Kinect is not required. While the Kinect sensor is a key, integrated component of Xbox One, you?re free to use other inputs to control games, apps, live TV, or other entertainment experiences, such as the Xbox One controller, a remote control, or a smart, connected device (like a tablet running Xbox SmartGlass). The Kinect sensor is designed to be the ?best? (or at least fastest) way of performing certain actions. But it?s optional."

I suspect that because it's a separate piece, you could just not plug it in.

Well technically you don't have to use it, but it does have to be plugged in for the console to function. So if you can use the console without having to use Kinect, then why the hell does it have to plugged in?

Where are you seeing that it has to be plugged in? Is there a confirmation or reputable source on that bit yet? Maybe I missed that.

[Another EDIT]: A second quote from the same article I posted earlier: "You control Kinect sensing. You can pause Kinect if you don?t want it on while playing games or enjoying entertainment. (Just say ?Xbox Off.?) When the Xbox One is off, it?s only listening for the single voice command ?Xbox On,? that?s it. And you can even turn that feature off too. Obviously, you?d need to enable Kinect for those apps or games that require Kinect functionality to operate."

 

[Genocidicles]

Where are you seeing that it has to be plugged in? Is there a confirmation or reputable source on that bit yet? Maybe I missed that.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2013/05/21/xbox-one-will-not-function-without-kinect-attached

So you may not have to use it, but it does have to plugged in for the console to function.

 

[search_rip]

I live in México and blackouts and problems with internet are a common issue having times with up to one week without any of them so I guess it's NO Xbone for me