Microsoft Sued for Locking Out Third Party Memory Cards

[Robby Foxfur]

well I have often wondered if i could use my 2gb San disk in the Xbox 360 slot but i guess the answer is no, that is kinda like bitchin out Microsoft your suppose to allow compaction and have confidence that the stuff you offer is better and thus the competitors won't matter.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

Well unfortunately I think Microsoft's undead lawyers will win this one. It is their platform after all.

However I think Microsoft should allow for third party accessory's. The lack of competition means lack of innovation for their own platform.

They do allow third-party items, they just have to be licensed by Microsoft first.
That's the problem with these cards, they are not approved by Microsoft.

 

[Wintermoot]

if your HDD is big enough you wouldnt need those cards

 

[lacktheknack]

Man, is this Lawsuit November or something? Can't people learn to solve their differences the proper way?

Like, a street fight?

With knives?

That Fires Lasers?

And irradiated baseball bats?

That Fires Tomahawks?

This is a winning fight in every way.

 

[teh_gunslinger]

I think the question will eventually become, does MS have the right to restrict periphery used during offline play. They can call the multi-player card all they want, but as long as the 360 has SP games, this may be an interesting case for MS to argue. Fact is, for every 1 pirate they 'foil' with this, they're hurting X number of loyal consumers, by rendering their memory sticks useless. Imagine how you'd feel if you suddenly couldn't touch any of your saves...?

You'd better believe I'd be pissed if I couldn't. And honestly I agree that they should keep their hands off when it comes to editing SP games. Noone gets hurt, cheated or anything else by that.
And I can't help thinking that their online system should be able to take care of hax and other cheats, either by software or by patrolling admins. I guess I'm happy with my PC.

Even if I agree that MS have reason to protect online play I don't think that it justifies this move. They are limiting people to use only 'official' gear. That was actually a big reason I bought a PS3 instead. While it's still a bad system it's a lot more open than the 360. Not as awesome as a PC but still...

 

[MisterLister]

Okay so before I start I must explain. I personally hate this shit. I do think MS are just being assholes for locking out memory cards and 3rd party harddrives too.
However. The 360 is their property right? So if they want to lock out shit that others are making for their product should they not legally be able to?
Is Datel paying them a percentage for sales of their items which is clearly designed for MS's product?
Basically what I am saying is that datel is making money only because of the 360. Why should they be able to get away with that without at least having to pay something to MS?

Do tire companies have to cut car manufacturers in on their profits? Does every software developer hand over a percentage to MS?

Just because a product is designed to be used with another product doesn't mean the second manufacturer is the slave of the first. Up until the worthless, reprehensible conglomerate of greedy idiots that is MS got into the console business, a plethora of third-party devices existed: gamesharks, codebrakers, action replays, and any number of random memory card brands. When the x-box came out, the death of the cheat devices took place almost overnight. One generation later, even memory cards are manufactured by a select few. What does this amount to? Yeah, maybe there is a little less hacking on the 360 due to their policies, but it is so marginal that it doesn't really matter. The people using such unsophisticated hacking methods are either 12 year-olds with no gaming skills to begin with or people too lazy to work on a harder mod. Nowadays, anyone with the right screwdriver, a free modding guide, and a few hours to burn can do much more disturbing things. The people routinely cheating on xbl will not be discouraged in the least. With the trade-off being that consumers are forced to shell out ridiculous prices to MS in order to get vastly inferior products, I just don't think that the handful of pre-pubescent punks stopped from hacking Halo is worth it.

As far as the EULA and that kind of garbage goes, I politely say "**** you, MS" every time I hit accept. I don't even bother to glace through them anymore. It all amounts to 'Even though you payed exorbitant prices for our products, we can tell you exactly what you will do with them.' After paying $300 for a buggy, poorly made console and the subsequent games, I feel as though I have the right to do whatever I want with it. If I want to take it apart and swallow it piece-by-piece, expel it onto a picture of Bill Gates, and send it first class to the Canadian prime minister, then that is what I will do. If I want to mod my game so that my character is covered in nipples and deals 8000000% damage, so be it. Now, as far as online is concerned, it is up to the people maintaining the servers to keep things fair. On that note, why is it there are fewer obvious cheaters (in my experience) on PS3 versions of multiplayer games as compared to MS versions? The PS3 lets you use any old usb drive to save games, and yet it has not burst into flames and destroyed the entire free-market system.

I realize I am a bit long winded, but any time I see MS, a company so wealthy it could build an island out of gold coins in the south Pacific and still have enough assets left to buy the Northern Hemisphere, taking a step to ensure more revenue, I just lose it. I loathe MS and pray to any god that will listen for someone to put them out of business. They are doing for the gaming industry what Rupert Murdoch did to television, and no one is able or even willing to stop them for the same reasons.

Oh, and I am not a console fanboy of any kind. I know that each console has its strengths and weaknesses, I just hate MS infinitely more than Nintendo or Sony. At least the Japanese have the decency to give us a shiny gimmick or awesome Bluray player while they ream us on the prices.

 

[FBPH]

Actually Microsoft reserves a portion of disc space on games so even people without XBL can get the updates.

Yeah and because of the ban waves each year, games released after that wave have a new dashboard update on them that is needed to play. They do that 'cause once an Xbox has been banned, it can't ever be updated again. So they release a new update after every wave and include them in a portion of every game disc following that wave (not immediately after but soon after). Even without XBL, those updates are still put into your system and are MANDATORY to play new game releases.

So yeah, M$ shafted Datel and everyone who had one of the better memory cards with game saves and stuff in 'em.

 

[Vierran]

I will be hoping for Datel to win, if Microsoft actually released a memory card that was 4g there wouldn't be much of a problem, but they don't.

 

[GrimFandango92]

bloody hell, MS already stopped allowing the sale or the cards at all the game shop in a 20km radius of me, now i have to get somebosy to buy it from the site AND pay THEM to do so, probably have to explain WHY i 'NEED' it

 

[hypothetical fact]

Who uses memory cards instead of the hard drive?

 

[SilentHunter7]

They do allow third-party items, they just have to be licensed by Microsoft first. That's the problem with these cards, they are not approved by Microsoft.

That's the problem with this whole thing. Forcing 3rd party manufacturers to purchase a license to use their products with theirs violates every competition law made since Theodore Roosevelt.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

They do allow third-party items, they just have to be licensed by Microsoft first. That's the problem with these cards, they are not approved by Microsoft.

That's the problem with this whole thing. Forcing 3rd party manufacturers to purchase a license to use their products with theirs violates every competition law made since Theodore Roosevelt.

Nintendo did this years ago and nobody had a problem with this, Microsoft shouldn't be damned because they want to...oh I don't know make money from their system. Pelican gets permission when they make these things so what makes these guys so special? They should follow the same rules as everyone else.

 

[SilentHunter7]

They do allow third-party items, they just have to be licensed by Microsoft first. That's the problem with these cards, they are not approved by Microsoft.

That's the problem with this whole thing. Forcing 3rd party manufacturers to purchase a license to use their products with theirs violates every competition law made since Theodore Roosevelt.

Nintendo did this years ago and nobody had a problem with this, Microsoft shouldn't be damned because they want to...oh I don't know make money from their system. Pelican gets permission when they make these things so what makes these guys so special? They should follow the same rules as everyone else.

If Microsoft can't make money because someone out there offers something better or cheaper, it's their own damn fault; Welcome to Capitalism. 3rd party hardware manufacturers shouldn't be damned because Microsoft dislikes anything that isn't part of their Monopoly.

And Nintendo already lost a lawsuit [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96554-Nintendo-Loses-Lawsuit-Against-DS-Flash-Cards] because of this. It's one thing to make money off of your system. It's another thing entirely to remove competition by forbidding someone to make something that works with your system. It would be like if Honda only allowed Honda-approved tires, oil-filters, cams, and other parts to be used with their vehicles, and the only way for companies to make their parts Honda-approved would be to pay Honda a ridiculous sum of money for every part they want to sell.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

They do allow third-party items, they just have to be licensed by Microsoft first. That's the problem with these cards, they are not approved by Microsoft.

That's the problem with this whole thing. Forcing 3rd party manufacturers to purchase a license to use their products with theirs violates every competition law made since Theodore Roosevelt.

Nintendo did this years ago and nobody had a problem with this, Microsoft shouldn't be damned because they want to...oh I don't know make money from their system. Pelican gets permission when they make these things so what makes these guys so special? They should follow the same rules as everyone else.

And Nintendo just lost their lawsuit over DS Flash Cards. With an international precedent set, I doubt highly MS will win this. Maybe...a very very thin maybe in the States, but Europe will tear this one up, as they've been doing with a great many MS lawsuits of late. (Anti-trust).

Yes yes, Nintendo lost, but they never had a rule against such a thing, Microsoft's' 360 has always had a special coding to prevent "unofficial" memory cards use on their systems. If anything to prevent "cheating and playing pirate games" Microsoft will use this in their defense and chances are it will work in their favor.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

They do allow third-party items, they just have to be licensed by Microsoft first. That's the problem with these cards, they are not approved by Microsoft.

That's the problem with this whole thing. Forcing 3rd party manufacturers to purchase a license to use their products with theirs violates every competition law made since Theodore Roosevelt.

Nintendo did this years ago and nobody had a problem with this, Microsoft shouldn't be damned because they want to...oh I don't know make money from their system. Pelican gets permission when they make these things so what makes these guys so special? They should follow the same rules as everyone else.

If Microsoft can't make money because someone out there offers something better or cheaper, it's their own damn fault; Welcome to Capitalism. 3rd party hardware manufacturers shouldn't be damned because Microsoft dislikes anything that isn't part of their Monopoly.

And Nintendo already lost a lawsuit [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96554-Nintendo-Loses-Lawsuit-Against-DS-Flash-Cards] because of this. It's one thing to make money off of your system. It's another thing entirely to remove competition by forbidding someone to make something that works with your system. It would be like if Honda only allowed Honda-approved tires, oil-filters, cams, and other parts to be used with their vehicles, and the only way for companies to make their parts Honda-approved would be to pay Honda a ridiculous sum of money for every part they want to sell.

They never removed competition they simply found a way for both parties to make money. They're not saying "We don't want third party hardware on our system." just "ask permission so we can do business" and that's what it's about business. Microsoft knows there will always be cheaper third party items so why not go with the old saying,if you can't beat em' join em'

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

They do allow third-party items, they just have to be licensed by Microsoft first. That's the problem with these cards, they are not approved by Microsoft.

That's the problem with this whole thing. Forcing 3rd party manufacturers to purchase a license to use their products with theirs violates every competition law made since Theodore Roosevelt.

Nintendo did this years ago and nobody had a problem with this, Microsoft shouldn't be damned because they want to...oh I don't know make money from their system. Pelican gets permission when they make these things so what makes these guys so special? They should follow the same rules as everyone else.

If Microsoft can't make money because someone out there offers something better or cheaper, it's their own damn fault; Welcome to Capitalism. 3rd party hardware manufacturers shouldn't be damned because Microsoft dislikes anything that isn't part of their Monopoly.

And Nintendo already lost a lawsuit [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/96554-Nintendo-Loses-Lawsuit-Against-DS-Flash-Cards] because of this. It's one thing to make money off of your system. It's another thing entirely to remove competition by forbidding someone to make something that works with your system. It would be like if Honda only allowed Honda-approved tires, oil-filters, cams, and other parts to be used with their vehicles, and the only way for companies to make their parts Honda-approved would be to pay Honda a ridiculous sum of money for every part they want to sell.

They never removed competition they simply found a way for both parties to make money. They're not saying "We don't want third party hardware on our system." just "ask permission so we can do business" and that's what it's about business. Microsoft knows there will always be cheaper third party items so why not go with the old saying,if you can't beat em' join em'

It actually doesn't matter, beyond the French precedent, many other's have been set regarding a persons right to do whatever they please with what they purchase. Gamers, actually would have a very very easy win on their hands, if they simply filed suit against Microsoft with infringing on their rights to their own property. Once it's paid for, it no longer belongs to MS. It's that persons property, and what they decide to do with it, is theirs. What people are confusing, is Microsofts right to XBL, versus a persons right to hack/mod/burn/wood chip the 360 they own. It's not Microsofts call, and either the 3rd party manufacturer will win, or gamers will win.

As for your Honda analogy. That's incorrect, nobody has to pay Honda squat to make parts that fit their vehicles. None. In fact, it's cheaper to buy after-market 'Z' rated parts (That's, better than OEM...Original Equipment Manufactured). I buy 90% of my car parts personally for my BMW, so I know this to be true. The only thing that would require a parts maker to bend over backward to the parent company, is if they wanted to put the Honda logo on it. Otherwise, it's just a piece of metal that happens to fit the correct screw pattern for the vehicle you own/they made.

The Honda theory isn't mine, but I see where you're coming from, but the pirating of games is still illegal no matter how you look at it and from that perspective Microsoft is protecting not only themselves but their partners as well.

 

[SilentHunter7]

They never removed competition they simply found a way for both parties to make money. They're not saying "We don't want third party hardware on our system." just "ask permission so we can do business" and that's what it's about business. Microsoft knows there will always be cheaper third party items so why not go with the old saying,if you can't beat em' join em'

If it was as simple as them asking for approval, and MS going "Oh yeah, no problem", or "just make sure such and such anti-piracy measures are implemented", there wouldn't have been a lawsuit. However, licensing costs money, and often involves giving a royalty to MS for each unit sold, which the manufacturer has to pass on to the consumer by raising prices. If they raise prices, suddenly MS has the best option, and the 3rd party manufacturers are up a creek. THAT's where the anti-trust issues come into play. MS isn't joining the 3rd party manufacturers. They're extorting them.

As for your Honda analogy...

Actually, it was my analogy, and I just said IF they did that.

 

[GloatingSwine]

The only reason this could be a problem is if it allows people to cheat on XBL. Is that possible? And surely there are server admins that ban cheaters. Oh wait...

Yes, it's possible. It was a hacked savegame file that allowed people on the PS3 version of Call of Duty 4 to use noclip and shoot through walls.

And sure, you can ban the people who do it, but they've still fucked the experience up for others and devalued your platform.

 

[SMOKEMNHALO2001]

The Honda theory isn't mine, but I see where you're coming from, but the pirating of games is still illegal no matter how you look at it and from that perspective Microsoft is protecting not only themselves but their partners as well.

The problem I have with that, is that Microsoft would then be holding the 3rd party card makers, responsible for Microsofts inability to create a secure system, as well as the lack of ethical behavior amongst some of it's consumers. This is quite similar to the file-sharing mediums, coming under fire from the MPAA/RIAA. In the end, if it was simply a program that allowed for P2P transfer, the courts decided in favor of the end-user/programmer, stating that the program itself is not to blame. But the people who misuse the program. Whereas, file-sharing hubs, such as Napster, Audiogalaxysatellite et al, where a parent server maintained the data, those were deemd illegal, as the company is actually encouraging piracy, by providing places for this data to be stored.

Once the money has changed hands, once ownership of property has transferred from Microsoft to a consumer, the only thing Microsoft can police is activity on their network. If someone chooses to mod their 360 and play offline, MS can't do squat about it (unless they find out about it, of course). But, if they go online...yeah, that's a whole nother ballgame. MS can ban away, but that still only affects their access to XBL, not whether the machine will continue to play games offline.

And that's where I'm coming from there was no lawsuits because it never caused a problem, like you said they can police their networks and if an unofficial third party hardware is to blame for networking-esq issue i.e cheaters on LIVE then Microsoft has the rights to say stop. Of course that's assuming the cheating is the reason Microsoft doesn't want this particular companies cards.

 

[Supreme Unleaded]

The sad thing is, i bet the Datel cards are made better then Microsofts and they probably cost less (i dont know how much they cost). And if they dont cost less i can almost gaurnentee that they cost less per Gb the Microsofts.


Stupid miscrosft and your monopaly, you need to stop playing that game.