Molyneux's Unfocused Innovation

repeating integers

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Ironic Pirate said:
Unless I'm getting him confused with someone else, Randy Pitchford (of Gearbox) is a decently famous name, and he's pretty much of this generation of games.
Perhaps, but somehow I don't think it's a famous name for the reasons you're thinking. Seriously? Randy Pitchfork!?

Also, I bet to myself that it would take 16 posts before somebody hated on Halo. Turns out I was 8 posts too late.
 

Lenny Magic

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"If he were making Dungeon Keeper today he'd probably let the player take their individual imps on romantic dinners" and it would be the best thing ever :')

Yeah I really wish he would do something other than Fable, uyes they are good games (in my opinion), but they are nothing compared to the stuff his old studio (Bullfrog) used to pump out.
 

veloper

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Good piece.
Syndicate, populous, dungeon keeper. Molyneux used to be a visionary.

Now he doesn't know if his casual games should be about saving the world or about farting at npcs. Stupid, repetitive crap.
 

GonzoGamer

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Lenny Magic said:
"If he were making Dungeon Keeper today he'd probably let the player take their individual imps on romantic dinners" and it would be the best thing ever :')

Yeah I really wish he would do something other than Fable, uyes they are good games (in my opinion), but they are nothing compared to the stuff his old studio (Bullfrog) used to pump out.
Yea. That sounds like a cool version of Dungeon Keeper. Someone should make Yhatzee's ideas, even the ones he thinks are bad are better than 90% of the crap on shelves today.
I really want to play that Frank Zappa Supervillain game he described in the Saints Row 2 review.
 

hawk533

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veloper said:
Good piece.
Syndicate, populous, dungeon keeper. Molyneux used to be a visionary.
I'll admit that I didn't know that the guy that did Syndicate, Populous, Theme Park, Black & White and Fable were all the same person.

You might be able to include Jon Schafer, the guy in charge of Civilization V, in a list of new famous game designers. I think he got popular as a Civilization IV mod designer.
 

Zykon TheLich

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Wow, Syndicate and Dungeon keeper, I guess the guy has been responsible for a couple of my all time favourites. Now if he did some more sequels to them I'd be happy.
 

TPiddy

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To be honest, I love most of the options in Fable, but it kind of seems all so pointless. I mean, you can make friends with an entire fucking village... what does that get you? Shop discounts? Not really, free lodging or money that becomes useless half-way through the game anyhow as you're a billionaire? So what? There is NO POINT in most of the stuff in there.

Collecting rare weapons, hunting down gnomes and gargoyles, that was fun. Getting married or having an 'orgy' just because is not fun. Hell, what did having an STD even do to your character? Or even the hair and clothing options. While it's fun to change up your look often, it ultimately serves nothing but a cosmetic purpose.

Sometimes these things are relevant, like dressing up like a highwayman to get into a fort... but they blatantly spell it out for you that it's what you have to do. Why not leave it up to the user? Present htem with the fort, and let them try to gain access on their own or use the costume approach.

The Chicken costume as well. No point to it whatsoever, same with holding hands. How many forced hand-holding quests are in Fable III that are just the same damn thing as an escort quest? the Hand-holding mechanic adds NOTHING to the game.

So much more could have been done. Hell, in the second, if the final boss knows you have a wife and kid, why doesn't he kill them or kidnap them? If you do have a kid and then abandon him for 10 years on the spire, why doesn't he grow up to hate you and try to kill you when you get back? Or if you did take care of your family, why can't you use them as an ally? Or for that matter, anyone you befriend? If you make friends with an entire village, and then are chased into that village by demons, wouldn't they help you? This would all make sense. So much potential, unrealized.
 

Wolfram23

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What is C2DE??

Otherwise, I'm with you there Yahtzee. Granted I only played the first Fable, being Xbox-less, but I intend to give 3 a go when it's available on PC.
 

thisberichard

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Oh, Yahtzee.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and I haven't said anything because I dislike posting in forums. But now I'm finally gonna say it, and the fact that you'll probably never end up reading it doesn't change the fact that I'll be glad to have finally gotten it out and vaguely in your direction.

I enjoy your videos and columns despite the fact that I disagree with you on a considerable number of important points about what makes a given game good or bad, and I think the reason for it is that I disagree with you in different ways from how I disagree with most people. I find it refreshing to hear comparatively fresh and valid criticisms of the things that I like despite their flaws, whereas most of the criticisms I hear tend to seem ignorant.

This is a perfect example.

The issues you take with Fable 3 (and the Fable games in general) are perfectly reasonable issues to take. At the same time, while the reasons you like Peter Molyneux and his games might be outweighed by your problems with Fable, you still find value in the innovation he brings to the table.

Take Fable 2. The conclusion of its main storyline was, whether a given player enjoyed it or not, fresh and different. I suspect that you would not have liked it, but I also suspect that your reasons would be drawn from a lack of investment in the events leading up to the conclusion, which could have made the whole ordeal much more powerful -- which is a perfectly respectable viewpoint.

After I finished Fable 2, everywhere I looked, I saw people complaining about the ending, and it was always for the same reason: the main villain dies without a big, epic final boss fight.
I could even understand the complaint that the main villain's death was unsatisfying due to the way the conclusion was put together, but that was almost never the complaint. The complaint was nearly always that said death was unsatisfying due to the way the conclusion was -not- put together; specifically, that it lacked a nigh-universal gaming convention.

I can appreciate a difference of perspective in which something I like is criticized for executing something poorly. I have a much more difficult time appreciating criticism that stems from an aversion to a change from the familiar.

Your criticisms have an insightful substance that I find endlessly refreshing, even when we don't agree on those matters of substance.

So, in the unlikely event that you actually read this, I want to thank you.

The industry might be moving as you described regardless, but we can always hope. We might not place any bets on the matter... but we can hope.
 

Sovvolf

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scumofsociety said:
Wow, Syndicate and Dungeon keeper, I guess the guy has been responsible for a couple of my all time favourites. Now if he did some more sequels to them I'd be happy.
I don't know about syndicate but his hands are tied when it comes to Dungeon Keeper... He no longer owns the rights to make the games... Same goes for a lot of his old games. There is a new Dungeon Keeper coming out but its going to be an MMO and only released in Asia, sadly Lionhead have no part in it.
 

cerebus23

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Fable was the final fantasy of xbox, hence microsoft was going to write big checks to keep pete m making fable games. Unfortunately for us that like rpg games fable was rather meh, and final fantasy has declined rapidly since final fantasy X, the traditional rpg/jrpg is in decline because of the cost to make games anymore and lack of good and new ideas.

Was the latest final fantasy wholly linear because they decided that liner is better than a open or semi open world? or was it wholly linear because they spent a small fortune on making the game and to make it a open world would cost another small fortune and delay its release another year. Or another option is that square enix is just bored with final fantasy and is fresh out of ideas.

The fall of FF tho is harder burden than fable's lack of excellence. FF was the king the gold standard of jrpgs in general, each and every one used to be as good as you could find. PS1 and PS2 were awash in rpgs, it was the console to own if you wanted rpg games to play. Xbox wanted to cash in on some of console players thirst for rpgs, and belched out fable, and many xbox owners i knew loved fable to death, they played it obsessively. But then there was not that many rpgs out for xbox at all back then so their options were limited.
 

Palademon

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If it ain't broke don't fix it. And Fable 1 didn't need fixing >_>
The way to improve is to add and tweak, not waterdown everything. Fable 1 had many situational spells that did different things. Fable 3 has different things (mostly elements) that I can choose from to throw at people. The real flavour of Fable in Fable 3 only came out with the side quests.

Come on Peter, you can fix this broken series.
 

Chevy235

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Molyneux seems to get lost inside his ideas, probably like a lot of us...the "oh wouldn't it be cool if we could do THAT," sort of thinking...the same sort of thinking that destroyed several early car companies (I'm thinking specifically of Wills-St. Claire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wills_Sainte_Claire)), that introducing small innovations take precendence over turning out the final product as a whole.

Basically, Molyneux can't keep his intellectual cock in his pants...not saying it isn't a very nice one or anything, just sometimes he should zip it up and finish the task at hand.

On the second note, don't ever apologize for Extra Punctuation. It was a nice surprise after getting hooked on your earlier videos, and I really enjoy reading them.
 

Centrophy

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"Yeah, twenty years ago when the ability to have sex with hookers in Leisure Suit Larry blew my fucking mind, the notion of a game being so deep and expansive that after visiting an inn and flirting with the waitress on your way to slaying the dragon you can come back and buy the inn and marry the waitress, or any building or member of the service industry in the world, would have sounded like some glorious unreachable pipe dream." -Yahtzee

That almost sounded like a L.O.R.D. reference. Legend of the Red Dragon for those not in the know was a BBS game that let you in fact flirt with the barmaid and then marry her, and since it was multiplayer everyone could too. *Sniff* I miss games like that. I'm with you, Yahtzee. While I did enjoy Fable 3, it was fraught with poor design choices. I'm hoping that one day Peter will get a team of more than just "Yes men" too calm him down and call him out on the bad ideas, er... without worrying about being fired that is.
 

Sebenko

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You know what the last three games I bought were?

Arcanum, Fallout 2 and Minecraft.

Anything described as "triple-A", can, at risk of making me look like some sort of indie hipster, fuck right off.
 

lordofthenight

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I never realised he was responsible for all of those games actually. I loved Dungeon Keeper. Theme Park and Magic Carpet. And while I didn't play any of the original Populous games, Populous the Beginning was amazing I thought.
 

Not G. Ivingname

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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
The sad reality is that were just in the last phase of our media's evolution, the evolution into an entertainment media. When it was cheap to make a mainstream games, it had a small group of loyal players, and technology was pounding against us to innovate, developers had to make quality games or die.

Since technology has reached the upmost limits, we don't know what to do with it but keep pushing. We aren't being forced to make new genres or new mechanics, so we don't make new mechanics, we just keep reusing them.

Games are so expensive to make with all the bells and whistles they are expected to have, companies are forced to calculate based on what has sold to please the investors that their money is "safe," and what is safe is sequels and rip-offs. Innovation is risky business, and the word risk isn't in any investor's vocabulary.
 

The Cheezy One

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I really enjoyed Fable 3. The thing is, I have spent a short while working at Lionhead, and I have noticed one thing - the connection between head and developer is a bit weird. Thats great though - some heads of companies don't really touch the ground floor, they just get wheeled out for marketing and pick up money. But the Lionhead devs sort of interpret what he says and put it in in a way that makes sense for them, hence the shifting tone, maybe some committee design, consisting of PM and the devs, not someone wheeled in for this very purpose (because thats where it begins), would improve things somewhat, and make it feel slightly stronger.
But overall, I was impressed with Fable 3, especially as I didn't think I'd like it to begin with.
 

Kwatsu

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Yahtzee Croshaw said:
If he were making Dungeon Keeper today he'd probably let the player take their individual imps on romantic dinners.
Overlord II's beaten him to it, or just about.