Money for Mods: Valve Announces Paid Skyrim Mods

[Comic Sans]

There is Skyrim Nexus for the same mods but free...oh yea Valve...You dun goofed

Except in the future how many new mods will show up on Nexus for free? They are already there in the current crop of games, but in the future what do you think modders will do? Put them up for free, or for the chance of profit? This will kill the modding scene of future games that support this system.

 

[Troublesome Lagomorph]

snip

Because mods totally sell as much as one of the best selling book series ever, or a really popular artist who's albums sell millions of copies. Great false equivalence, man. 10/10

Have you even installed a mod before? Have you even heard of modding up until now, because I can't tell.

 

[sanamia]

I spend a whole day giving money to modders who didn't sell out into the bullocks. Sorry if I didn't give to you the list of used mods was pretty insanely long and I ran out of spending money.
Giving a buck on the nexus gives them a buck.

Paying on steam gives them 25% or nothing at all...

If I had to pay one dollar for every mod I ever installed I could not pay my electric bill anymore. Let alone afford the insane prices on that workshop.
Anyone who knows a little bit of how skyrim modding works would stay away from the steam workshop anyway, i's utter game-breaking crap.

It's the same as an add-blocker (yeah I know you might ban me for this) if you like the content un-block it and give the site/youtuber his revenue. If you like the mods give the modder a beer. doesn't hurt you, gives some joy/money to them.

 

[DrOswald]

There's already drama about people ripping free skyrim mods from Nexusmods and putting them up on steam behind a paywall... even if its not theirs

and what on earth is Valve doing taking 75% of the money? They only take 30% from actual games sold on steam

I don't mind seeing great modders paid a bit for their hard work, but like TB said, then a patreon-like setup would likely be more suitable.

Valve takes 30%-40% typically of the revenue for things sold on the platform Valve provided.

So why is this 75%? Because Bethesda is taking 30%-40% of the revenue sold on the platform Bethesda provided. Or, at least that is what I assume. We have no proof of this yet, but it makes sense.

So, Valve takes their cut and Bethesda takes their cut. Modders get what is left.

 

[T8B95]

My question is what the hell happens with copyright in this new system? Lots of mods I see import characters, weapons, or settings from other franchises, and those mods have been protected until now because they weren't monetized. Now that they are monetized...what gives? I can't imagine copyright holders for, let's say, Game of Thrones are going to be happy about modders (not to mention Valve and Bethesda) making money off of their art and storylines (especially seeing as George RR Martin already takes a dim view of fanfiction even when it's not monetized).

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Rather than improve the modding scene this might actually kill it. Who's gonna bother with mods when any asshole can just steal it and try to sell it for a quick buck? Who's gonna buy it knowing that it might disappear the very next day? Valve is notoriously bad at controlling even things that they introduced years ago.

 

[Callate]

I'm of mixed minds, honestly.

On one hand, some of the work that has been done on Skyrim is so remarkable, so intricate, that it seems petty to even suggest that it doesn't deserve financial compensation at least to the degree that some of the hackwork on Greenlight and Early Access does.

And, y'know, Skyrim is a four-year-old game, which doesn't hurt. The likelihood of a mod-breaking patch, or the creators suddenly deciding to jump back into the game and steal modders' ideas, seems pretty slight.

On the other hand, as has been noted, Steam's technical support of late has been, shall we say, less than stellar.

And more worryingly to me, I'm not at all sure I like this as a precedent. For modders to get a little remuneration for adding features to a four-year-old game is one thing. The idea of one of the already nickel-and-diming publishers to put out a new, full-priced game and shrug off the lack of content with some piffle about "we really see our product as as much a platform for modders as a game in and of itself" makes me very uneasy.

Multiply that idea by a thousand half-baked Early Access games, and the idea turns into a nightmare.

There are certainly games out there that could benefit from modding by a group of invested players, including more than a few that explicitly prohibited modding and took steps to make doing so both technically and legally difficult. But at heart, I think modding works best when and because both the original developers and the modders take a step back from the more contentious issues of modding- on the developers side, by not interfering with or threatening the mod teams; on the modders' side, by recognizing that they're building on others' work and not expecting to get rich by doing so. Steam's new policy encourages the companies to feel they have something at stake and and the modders to treat their work as a commercial, rather than creative, enterprise. I'm not at all sure that's a good thing.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

...

The main issue I have with this is that it will completely kill the easy drop in / drop out ability of mods that Skyrim previously had.

...

It's suggested that Fallout 4 and the next Elder Scrolls games will have these paid systems locked into them. If that hadn't been the case I would have been buying both within the first week of their releases. Now, I'm not sure if I'll bother putting the money down at all (even on a crazy Steam sale) because I'd know that all that extra potential content is locked off from me, and the games will have to stand on their own bugged-to-hell, shallow merits.

Yeah, I don't think people want to do due diligence for a mod. Yes, reviews and opinions on mods currently exist but, when mods are free, no one is dependent on those reviews as they can just dl, try it and uninstall if it is unsuitable, not to the player's taste or just plain bad.

As to your comment on FO4 and ES6 the thing that comes to my mind is what the hell is going on with Bethesda lately? I've seen some pretty dickish behaviour from Zenimax Online, which is one of the reasons I left ESO, but assumed Zenimax Media had maybe been a little too hands-off with them (Zenimax Media have traditionally given studios under them a good amount of autonomy by all accounts).

And now Bethesda with the Skyrim paid mods. Even if this was driven more by Valve Bethesda, at the very least, have enabled this and it points, along with the way ZOS has been run, to a bigger change in Zenimax Media's corporate culture that is, to say the least, quite worrying.

 

[RedDeadFred]

The worst part is, with more and more modders moving over to the Workshop to potentially get paid, Steam is going to have a pseudo-monopoly over modding.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

And nothing of value was lost?

I mean, I've never used the Workshop. I've always used the Nexus Mod Manager. I just don't see Valve growing a monopoly on modding, mostly because there's a bigger and more complex free database's worth of mods on offer.

Ten to one that the system for paid mods quickly devolves to kiddies expecting us to pay twenty bucks for Babby's First God Mod Ring of Awesomeness, at which point Valve will be forced to shut it down to save face. A lot of mod creators on the Nexus either scoff at the idea of being paid, or mostly stuck to volunteer Paypal or Patreon donations.

And fuck giving extra cash to Valve, honestly. Even if I did approve of that concept, I'd want the full price I've paid to reach the modder's pockets, not their Steam Wallet, and certainly not at a reduced percentage.

 

[bug_of_war]

Even the most hardcore Valve fans are pissed that we have heard didly squad about Half Life (episode) 3 for SEVEN FUCKING YEARS.

Don't you remember a month or so ago Gabe saying "We don't wanna make half life 3, but that doesn't mean it can't happen" (Heavily paraphrased)? I'm just really sick of Valve right now. Lately all they've been doing has been pretty unsubstantial to the point where EA is looking somewhat better than them. If Steam wasn't so convenient I think the only money I'd have thrown their way is for Left 4 Dead.

OT:
Wouldn't it be more fair to have it as a 3 way split? Modder, dev and Steam all get 1 third of the profit each?

 

[Frostiken]

Other things not mentioned.

1) Most Skyrim modded installs are not just 'one or two mods'. They're literally dozens. Keep this in mind.

2) Most modders for Skyrim only have a small number of mods, or at least mods that will ever be worthy of selling. Between the 75% money grab and the $400 minimum, this means that they'll have to either rely on a ridiculous number of really cheap sales, or a limited number of more expensive sales. This will encourage modders to absolutely flood the Workshop with as many mods with their name on it as possible. For modders with more limited portfolios, especially those who create more niche mods that DON'T have hundreds of thousands of downloads, they have to either price the mod high, or price it at nothing at all.

3) This all comes down to meaning that only the rich will ever be able to mod Skyrim. Between $1 and $2 per mod means that even your 'typical' modded Skyrim install is going to end up costing possibly well over $120. Are you telling me that modders themselves have contributed to more than DOUBLE the value of the entire original game? Now keep in mind that of that $120, $54 is going to Bethesda for doing absolutely nothing at all, $36 goes to Valve as a tithe for blessing us with monetization of something that has been free for decades, and only $30 is split amongst all the mod authors.

 

[Maphysto]

Hah, nice one, Valve. But you're a bit late; April Fool's Day was nearly a month ago. Right, Valve?

....Valve?

 

[Frostiken]

While I do agree with the core concept of it, for me the cons far outweigh the pros at the moment. Fuck it, lets see what happens way too early days to predict how this shit is really gonna affect things.

Because 'let's wait and see' worked for Horse Armor.

 

[gact]

Ok something very obvious needs to be said about this, if you dont want to pay for a mod then dont do it! just use free mods. also dont be entitled to mods, dont think like "I'm going to pirate the mod because fuck paying for it!" just dont use it if you dont want to pay.

People saying that this is shit you are not being forced to use it, while I agree that there are a bunch of negatives about how this was implemented, the idea is really good.

To address some of the complaints I have seen,1 good moders are going to keep their mods free, they already have "tip jars" in patreon and paypal and they would get paid more by keeping them free and having a link to their tip jar next to the download link for their mods.
2 if a mod doesnt work with another mod its not steam's or the mod developers problem, buying a couple of 3rd party add ons to a game and expecting them to work perfectly would be ridiculous unless it is specified by both mods that they do work together.
3 if you blindly buy a mod that doesnt work/you dont like its your fault, I expect anyone that actually takes time to mod their games to do their research before installing anything so I would expect the same if you are going to invest money in them. a counter argument to this one might be, but what if there are no reviews of the mod? or something similar to that, my answer is dont buy it unless you trust the developer, if mod developers want their games to be bought they need to make a name for themselves first, they need to earn our trust, and the easiest way to do that is making some free mos before a paid one, or allowing some sort of preview.
4 "this is the same as DLC!!!" no its not, the problem with DLC is that companies cut their games in half to sell the other half later, not that they charge for extra content, and since the mods arent even made by the creator of the game then this problem doesnt exist.
5 "this is the same as Early Access" when you see a mod that states that its not finished then dont buy it, just because they promise they will finish it or that it is super fun it doesnt make it true, and Im sure anyone reading this has never bought an early access game that they didnt knew beforehand that the game was great.
6 VALE is greedy!, yes they are a company in a capitalist society they need to be, but if since you live in the same capitalist society too then you must know that you are not forced to use their services, people say VALVE is shit mainly because early access and now this, but all the other services that VALVE offers are pretty good, I might be missing some other things that people dont like about them but those are the major complaints I hear, in conclusion if you dont want to use early acces or pay for mods then dont do it.

This wont destroy the modding community if we as the consumers do our homework and we dont toss our money at the first shiny thing we see.

Finally I want to add some suggestions that would make this mod selling thing better for everyone: instead of paying up front implementing the "tip jar" would be a better way of controlling for pissed off customers and crappy/unfinished mods, this needs quality control any way of quality control is better than just let anyone to upload crap, as for the possibility of mods being taken out due to copyright then I think the best way to handle it is letting the people who already paid for it to keep it and making the modder to pay all the consequences of infringing copyright.

 

[SadisticFire]

I can't believe this. It's ridiculous on way too many levels. We should start with one of the most basic things and that's using other people's assets.

The first mod on there has been deleted due to using another person assets. But more so other gamers pointed it out to Steam so if it goes unnoticed then i guess they will keep selling it.

http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2015/04/24/the-paid-for-mod-world-has-its-first-casualty

The problem is this isn't sustainable for either the content owner, or the filters. Too many people can just upload it, and in such large quantities. I mean, this is evident on the STOREPAGE with early access. How can Valve hope to manage mods?

OT:
Wouldn't it be more fair to have it as a 3 way split? Modder, dev and Steam all get 1 third of the profit each?

Not really, no. Besethda didn't make any of the mods, neither did Valve. They already got our money -- when we bought the game. They shouldn't get anymore of the money, especially since their trumpets keep trying to say 'think of the modders'. Just open up donations to them directly and DONT ban them for doing so.

 

[Karadalis]

Ok something very obvious needs to be said about this, if you dont want to pay for a mod then dont do it! just use free mods. also dont be entitled to mods, dont think like "I'm going to pirate the mod because fuck paying for it!" just dont use it if you dont want to pay.

People saying that this is shit you are not being forced to use it, while I agree that there are a bunch of negatives about how this was implemented, the idea is really good.

To address some of the complaints I have seen,1 good moders are going to keep their mods free, they already have "tip jars" in patreon and paypal and they would get paid more by keeping them free and having a link to their tip jar next to the download link for their mods.
2 if a mod doesnt work with another mod its not steam's or the mod developers problem, buying a couple of 3rd party add ons to a game and expecting them to work perfectly would be ridiculous unless it is specified by both mods that they do work together.
3 if you blindly buy a mod that doesnt work/you dont like its your fault, I expect anyone that actually takes time to mod their games to do their research before installing anything so I would expect the same if you are going to invest money in them. a counter argument to this one might be, but what if there are no reviews of the mod? or something similar to that, my answer is dont buy it unless you trust the developer, if mod developers want their games to be bought they need to make a name for themselves first, they need to earn our trust, and the easiest way to do that is making some free mos before a paid one, or allowing some sort of preview.
4 "this is the same as DLC!!!" no its not, the problem with DLC is that companies cut their games in half to sell the other half later, not that they charge for extra content, and since the mods arent even made by the creator of the game then this problem doesnt exist.
5 "this is the same as Early Access" when you see a mod that states that its not finished then dont buy it, just because they promise they will finish it or that it is super fun it doesnt make it true, and Im sure anyone reading this has never bought an early access game that they didnt knew beforehand that the game was great.
6 VALE is greedy!, yes they are a company in a capitalist society they need to be, but if since you live in the same capitalist society too then you must know that you are not forced to use their services, people say VALVE is shit mainly because early access and now this, but all the other services that VALVE offers are pretty good, I might be missing some other things that people dont like about them but those are the major complaints I hear, in conclusion if you dont want to use early acces or pay for mods then dont do it.

This wont destroy the modding community if we as the consumers do our homework and we dont toss our money at the first shiny thing we see.
.

Im sorry but youre ignoring the fact that with a price tag attached to it you are actaully buy a PRODUCT

You are not downloading a free mod anymore... and with a product come certain expectations and legal obligations

Both Valve and Bethesda thought claim no responsibility trying to avoid doing anything they would be legally obligated for like quality control or to make sure no stolen goods get sold on their marketplace.

Sorry but these arent mods anymore... they are products. And if i am suposed to pay for a product i want it to work, i want quality control, and i want it to be legal in the first place... and those things are infact things Steam is obligated to by the LAW. You know.. the thing everyone has to abide to?

Also you as a customer could get in trouble too if you buy a mod that was stolen / uses copyrighted material. Imagine downloading that sweet space marine armor for a dollar... if GW wants they can then sue not only the creator... but you as a customer too. Isnt that sweet?

You also completly ignore the massive ammount of damage this has allready caused in the modding community.

People have allready pulled their resources and assets from being open. Others have decided that their mods that many others rely on will now be put behind a paywall. Modders are not trusting each others anymore, others are uploading stolen mods allready claiming them to be theirs.

Valve single handedly torped skyrims modding community and idiots are flocking to it like flys flock to shit.

 

[Czann]

There are enough people defending this practice that the companies may very well be right.

Heck we have people right here defending this ripoff scheme and the divide of the modding community as something positive.

And valve isnt even nice enough to buy the lube either... you have to bring your own.

This is the most disheartening thing about this mess Valve created out of greed: to see so many celebrating the destruction of a community that worked only out of passion and love of a game and commemorating that they will have to pay for amateurish, more bugged than usual DLC now.

Valve already said you are on your own. They only care care about getting their cut and nothing else.

 

[gact]

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yeah I recognize that some damage has been done but if we speak with our wallets this can get fixed and become something positive, and I think that most of the moders that are running to steam to post their mod there are the crappy ones.

Also since its a Product as you say I am trusting the market to weed out the bad products, I also mentioned that this needs some quality control, at least a small one.

About the legality there are lots of examples of patents and copyrights being violated and companies getting compensated by the transgressors of the copyright,this is something inevitable, and I actually hope some cases of this happening in the mod workshop happen and get a lot of press attention so the quick buck moders get the message that doing that is not ok and that they will get caught, so the amount of copyright infringing mods that are sold becomes really small.

My whole argument relies in the market doing its job, and VALVE putting some effort into policing the workshop.