Money for Mods: Valve Announces Paid Skyrim Mods

[shirkbot]

The pay what you want option does still have a mandatory minimum. You can't have a pay what you want game with a minimum of $0,

Well it makes little sense to charge an amount so small that the cost of processing will cost you more than get. Even Humble Bundle has a $1 Minimum.

Humble Bundle is also donating whatever portion of the money I want to charity, so it's a bit like apples and oranges.

and people are mostly angry that Valve is taking a 75% cut while doing 0% of the work. The workshop is rad, it's a one-click system that auto-updates, but Valve doesn't deserve 75% of all sales income for it.

No they're not. That 75% is split between Valve and the publisher that owns the rights to the game and 25% is better than the 0 modders are getting currently. Just to put it in perspective. That is way cheaper than the licensing fee they'd have to pay otherwise to be able to sell the game. and to ad further perspective.

J. K. ROwling would piss herself with joy if she could get 25% royalties on the sale of her Harry Potter books.

MOst authors consider themselves lucky if they get as much as 15%. Others would assume the 15% to be a typo and hop the publishing house doesn't correct it. See what I'm saying? There are musicians, famous and popular ones, that wish they could get 20%. Hell there are people who work in retail and sales that wish they could get 25% commission.

This is also a bit of a faulty comparison. For one thing, the law actually puts modders pretty much in the clear in terms of licensing. The mod code is often original, so the modders aren't pirating anything and the original developers can't claim the code as their own. Not to mention that any mod can be considered to add value to a product, preventing cases being filed for damages or against the modders for circumventing various systems in the games. There's no reason to be giving money to the developer for work they're not doing, nor to Valve for hosting it. If they want to take some money just to cover operating costs I understand, but it's unreasonable to assert that 25% of the profits is all that the modders should get, even if that is better than a book deal. This is, potentially, the ground floor of something positive and our discussion should push for the most positive outcome for the people doing the actual work, which is not Valve and not Bethesda.

One of the things that makes modding work is that people can download and play, no charge, but the more savvy modders have Patreons and tip jars so people can support them, which is kind of the ideal. That's the free market in action:

And there you go sounding like an entitled WASP. The reason the community worked is because the producers were legally prevented from charging for their work. Yeah when that's the only way a system works.. that system is broken.

Also ask those modders that went by patreon and Donatiotions and find out what theyre contribution to down load ratio is. probably something like $1 per every 200 downloads.

Considering popular opinion at the moment, that would be a winning proposition over $0 and 0 downloads. People can and do make good money with donations. Things like Dwarf Fortress are %100 donation funded, as are many webcomics and other online media productions, so it's hard to argue that the system is completely broken. Especially since, as I pointed out earlier, modders are legally allowed to sell their work as long as it doesn't contain copyrighted materials.

people supporting exactly who and what they want with whatever funds they feel the creator deserves or that they can personally spare. I want modding to be a job, I want it to be something people can make a living doing, but this is a bad way to go about it.

And they can do that now. They are free to do a pay what you want thing, they can charge a fixed price and they can charge nothing. Of course the only difference now is that the decision of this is placed in the hands of the content creators.

The pay-what-you-want option is there, it's the closest to a good solution, but until those percentages are adjusted I'm much happier seeing modders with Patreons where they get the bulk of the money, rather than on Valve's 25% deal. Content creators should be compensated, not Valve, Bethesda, Zenimax or whoever, who have no legal right to that money.

 

[RJ 17]

It's adorable that people think Valve/Bethesda aren't already rewriting their agreements to freeze out Nexus Mods and any similar platforms. They're trying to turn mods into a revenue stream, and that's never going to happen if people are downloading the shit for free elsewhere.

This is what I was going to point out as well.

How long before Steam re-writes it's TOS to say "No Non-Workshop Mods"?

For that matter, since greed is contagious, what makes people so certain that modders won't take their ball away from Nexus and post up on the Workshop instead?

 

[MonsterCrit]

You had a situation where the people producing the content were not getting paid at all. That's like ye olde serfdom. Modding is broken? How can you tell? All valve has done is given the content creators more power and benefits. They can choose to charge, give it away for free or a tip jar. as they want.

As for theft and what not, well, that actually will change now . Since those that register can now show their work and can if they choose to go the pay route.. have some legal claim to their work. A modder currently has literally no legal claim on their work as it stood previously and could never have legal claim until they paiid a heft licensing fee.

As for proving you are the creator. There are ways... I mean programmers long ago adopted the practice of including little snippets of do nothing code in their programs and easter eggs to prove ownership.

Unless you dont manage to sell 400 $.... then valve keeps all the money your mod made and you go out empty handed anyways.

So if they sell under a certain amount They see no change in the status qou. If they sell more.. they gain a benefit.

Again.. how is there a downside to the modder here.?

You really have no idea how the modding community has functioned until now do you?

Having made 4 mods and collaborated 5 on about 9 others. I probably know more about how it works than you.

Many of your type seem to have very little faith in the community you speak so highly of.

The modding scene survived on cooperation between modders.. wich is now ruined thanks to some people taking the work of others, including it in their mods... and then sell these mods as their own works without any credit or money going to the original creators.

Welcome to the world of content creation. But what was stopping them from doing that before anyway?

Who now have to go through the entire legal process that can take ages thanks to Steams non existant costumer service to get these mods taken down.

They have a recourse.. under the old status qou they had no recourse what so ever. again $1 > $0.

And god knows what hoops you will have to jump through to proof to Valve that that guy that sells
his mod on steam has stolen parts or is basing his mod on yours.

Probably no different than the hoops to pove that you haven't stolen anything. Again compare to the former status quo

That is all work and trouble that to many people will not be worth it, so they will simply make their resources unavailable from the get go for others to use.

So you're saying rather than have their work possibly stolen modders would rather not create and release mods at all. Because honestly that's about the only way to prevent someone stealing your work. DOing no work. Now compare again to the old status quo. There's nothing stoping people from stealing others works there either but that hasn't stopped modders from creating has it?

People will and allready HAVE stopped allowing their modding tools and assets be used in other mods because of this divide now.

I own a hammer. It is my right as such to determine whom can use said hammer. Basic right.

What Valve did was actively damaging the modding scene, dividing it and making everyone distrust each other. Instead of exchanging ideas, tools and resources everyone now will watch over their own stuff like some fucking alchemist trading secrets in medevil times.

This happened yesterday, Some how I don't think you can use the first 24 hours as an indicator as to the future. Now look I'm not saying there will be sunshine and rainbows but I am at least willing to wait and see how this plays out over the next 3 or so months.

I mean again many of y'all don't count the consumer in the equation either. If a Mod is absurdly priced... no one will buy it. Consumers will invariably set the price point for mods. YOu can sell an appl for $1000 but that don't mean anyone will buy it.

On the flip side. modders will now actually have a wee bit more motivation to create richer, more entertaining and creative mods because they stand to gain financially from the work.

Does that sound like advancing the modding scene to you? I say its a huge step back, destroying a community that had grown over the last two decades for the sake of profit.. and youre applauding the burning building while sitting in it no doubt takes the cake.

Pardon me for saying this but the modding communit has been around far longer than 20 years...have you even been around for 20 years I wonder.

Also if you enter the modding scene for the money youre entering it for the wrong reasons alltogether.

Because wanting to make money doing something you love and enjoy is EVIL. Right?

 

[JET1971]

But!...But

snip

Yea, modding was a glass ceiling, Till some fatfuck fell it on and boy..did it fall..

Edit: I get that these mods in particular are more of a boycott from the backlash that's been happening, but still, It just goes to show how quickly this can all go wrong and how sloppy and under-designed the whole system is at the moment.

How about this instead: http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65034/? Or this? http://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/65036/? Both are free mods so if it's broken and you find out a week after downloading you are out a whole $0.00!

You had a situation where the people producing the content were not getting paid at all. That's like ye olde serfdom. Modding is broken? How can you tell? All valve has done is given the content creators more power and benefits. They can choose to charge, give it away for free or a tip jar. as they want.

As for theft and what not, well, that actually will change now . Since those that register can now show their work and can if they choose to go the pay route.. have some legal claim to their work. A modder currently has literally no legal claim on their work as it stood previously and could never have legal claim until they paiid a heft licensing fee.

As for proving you are the creator. There are ways... I mean programmers long ago adopted the practice of including little snippets of do nothing code in their programs and easter eggs to prove ownership.

You have no idea on how copyright works do you? I have mods up on the nexus and I own %100 copyright on the meshes and textures in them. If someone uses them without my permission it is exactly the same as someone using assets from another game without permission.

As for proving you are the creator, yeah easy. The website the thief got it from is proof enough.

What Valve has done is make an attempt at fracturing a community. Mods were not being made to make money, they were made because modders like myself enjoy doing it, we enjoy it when a user gives thanks and praise, we enjoy the communities we build around making mods, from teaching someone who has never made a mod to sharing knowledge between veterans. Many mod authors are doing it as reference material for getting into a full time job at a game studio.

Monetizing mods will have 1 effect and that's poorer quality mods over time as veterans give up or move on to something else and nobody will share knowledge. Free to use mod resources of which I am an author of 4 will become a thing of the past so you will end up with mods that use only vanilla resources and retextures because the 3d artists will no longer allow their work to be used by anyone.

This Steam Workshop change is bad for players and modders alike, it is that simple.

 

[gibboss28]

While I do agree with the core concept of it, for me the cons far outweigh the pros at the moment. Fuck it, lets see what happens way too early days to predict how this shit is really gonna affect things.

 

[Karadalis]

*snips*

I will ignore your ad hominem attack about my age for the most part, but sufficient to say im old enough to know that modding didnt became a big thing until broadband internet was around.

The points you raise are very short sighted and you never actually deal with the real problem of this all, merely handwaving it away:

The complete breakdown of cooperation between modders and modding teams.

All those "quality" mods you so much like? They allmost allways use assets and resources created by other teams. Heck even Wet and cold is using the work of others to function properly, and these other people will most likely not see a dime for their work.

Resources and assets that people have allready stated they feel inclined not to share anymore, because they never intended them to be monetized to begin with.

So the truth is that Valve is not helping create a more diverse and "better" enviroment. They create an enviroment where everyone is protecting their trade secrets, increasing the amount of incompatibility between mods and thus overall crippling customer choice.

Many of the mods out there wouldnt even be possible with the ground work laid down by others, because they simply dont have the knowledge or time and resources to build their own foundations.

But guess what? Now that its the wild west everyone will stop sharing. How can anyone think that this is a good thing to happen?

Wanting to make money doing something you love? Oh that sounds so lovely if you put it that way... how about getting a real job in the industry then instead? Also this completly ignores the culture that has grown around the concept of modding being a free labour of love that you dont charge for.

Valve and bethesda do not have the support for modders in mind when they came up with these scheme. They want to control and monetise the modding community, earning money with the work of others without themselves having to do jack shit. Bethesda sure as hell does nothing, and Valve has allready said that they will not provide any customer service at all.

Now about "proving that you havent stolen it"

What bakwards logic are you trying to pull here? When you upload something and claim that its yours you have to proof nothing. Even when accused of stealing content you still have to proof nothing.

The one in need of proof is allways the accuser. And people simply wont want to deal with this shit and opt for simply not making their stuff available. We have allready seen a screenshot of modders saying that they think about making their new stuff unavailable for others to use.

And yet you still think that this ripoff and controll scheme will somehow make the community healthier then it was before?

Well if thats your opinion i got a bridge to sell really cheap...

And you also completly ignored all the consumer rights violations. Like for example Valve not forcing modders to keep their mods up to date with gamepatches, allowing them to aparantly knowingly sell broken content. But alas... you can ask "nicely" if the nice modder might fix it if he pleases... you know.. for a product you purchased.

Because thats what these "mods" are now...

They are a PRODUCT

But Valve wants to treat them as fan works so they can dodge any responsibility while still raking in the lions share.

 

[JET1971]

*snips*

And yet you still think that this ripoff and controll scheme will somehow make the community healthier then it was before?

Yeah What he said!

Also fun fact, the modding community was already hurt when the CK came out for Skyrim and the scripts were compiled unlike previous titles that you could see them in uncompiled code to learn how someone made something happen. Many authors wanted to keep those tricks a secret so they could get recognition for the work when in previous titles all you had to do was ask and they would freely explain it because they knew they couldn't hide the script anyway. Now there is money involved above and beyond a donation and that issue will compound with no more tutorials and if you ask how to make something happen I hope you enjoy the sound of crickets because that's the answer you will get.

 

[ah4o0o]

A donate/tip system could have been fine. Valve would have done a great promotion to this kind of things (also it would have been even better if they took a lot less of the god damn money).

But this, this is the kind of things we might be really seeing just before this industry crashes hard.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Just thought of something.....what about mods that FIX broken games. So we would be paying for a 3rd party to fix a game and paying the developer for it as well.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

It's adorable that people think Valve/Bethesda aren't already rewriting their agreements to freeze out Nexus Mods and any similar platforms. They're trying to turn mods into a revenue stream, and that's never going to happen if people are downloading the shit for free elsewhere.

Valve are getting more greedy like EA. By Bethesda seemed to be a company that supported modding on their games. Just seems really weird that they would be involved in this.

 

[ah4o0o]

Just thought of something.....what about mods that FIX broken games. So we would be paying for a 3rd party to fix a game and paying the developer for it as well.

Many devs already do that expecting moders to fix it up or add to their empty game. Now they can make even more money by selling half finished games for full prince and then selling mods that fix it.

 

[Uhuru N'Uru]

So are we going to stop pretending Valve is the best thing since sliced bread finally or are we gonna get some Valve apologists coming out now?

I feel like Valve has lost a lot of it's criticism immunity on the back of the fact that it hasn't made an actual new game in like five years. Back in the day, when people would diss Valve, the apologists would say "But... Half Life 2! But... Portal! But... Counter-Strike!" and we'd all settle down and say "yeah, you're right. Valve make some shitty decisions but they also make video games like no-one else in the industry."

Even the most hardcore Valve fans are pissed that we have heard didly squad about Half Life (episode) 3 for SEVEN FUCKING YEARS. I feel like Valve has well and truly worn out it's "ubiquitously loved video game company" persona.

From a technical standpoint, -Valve- hasnt made anything original in even longer. Portal? Was another game. TF2? Mod. CS? Mod. Dota? Icefrog. I've never understood why Valve seemed immune to criticism over the years. Do people not understand why a monopoly is bad?

Why Skyrim?
This was the reason Steam Workshop was created, both these companies are now just like all "AAA" Publishers, they've long ago burnt any goodwill credit and if the Workshop launch had gone to the plan, with 95% of mod users on Steam they would have done this back then, typically of the AAA Publishers they half assed the launch and instead 95% of modders flocked to the Skyrim Nexus and anywhere but Steam Workshop.

So Why do it now?
Simple pre E3 testing ground for Fallout 4, if modders take this up the ass, then full Steam ahead with New 64-bit engine locked into Steam with online DRM of some kind.
If as seems likely it's these jerks who get shafted, the lock in will be put on hold without ever admittting it was planned, they can then gain false credit for listening to their fans. I am a mod user and I'll never pay for mods, because modding is a communal effort that builds on the work of the previous games.

The real winners here can be GOG Galaxy and Wither 3 modding, unlike Valve CD Projekt Red and GOG's reputations are built on pro consumer business practices and providing value for money. They also make great games but that's just a bonus. Not a reason to accept shady anti-consumer business practices, like no refunds even if the game you buy is brokem. Even Ea's Origin is better than Steam these days.

So goodbye Bethesda and Steam, Hello Witcher and Galaxy

 

[AJ_Lethal]

I know where this is going

Paid mods show up > paid mods get pirated > paid mod DRM measures > more paid mod piracy > repeat until modding and PC gaming collapses.

 

[Pr0]

Actually the smarter way is

Paid mods show up > Free mods get developed with original resources and code that do exactly what the paid mod does > Paid mod gets no downloads > Free mod developer gets all the credit for providing a great mod to the community for free.

 

[Tyranicus]

There is Skyrim Nexus for the same mods but free...oh yea Valve...You dun goofed

 

[webkilla]

There's already drama about people ripping free skyrim mods from Nexusmods and putting them up on steam behind a paywall... even if its not theirs

and what on earth is Valve doing taking 75% of the money? They only take 30% from actual games sold on steam

I don't mind seeing great modders paid a bit for their hard work, but like TB said, then a patreon-like setup would likely be more suitable.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Money for Mods: Valve Announces Paid Skyrim Mods

Are you a Skyrim modder? Have you poured hours and hours of your life into your HD Realistic Flower Physics mod only to realize that all you got out of it was an increase in your video game development skills and Internet fame? Well, now its time to cash in on your hard work as Valve has just announced Paid Workshop Content, beginning with one of the most mod-heavy games of all time: Skyrim.

How does it work? First up, modders have to specify whether or not their mod is paid. This means that they can still create free mods if they wish. They then set their own price for their mod, and put it up for sale on the Steam Workshop. As a consumer, you can purchase a mod in pretty much the same way you purchase official DLC. There's also an option for modders to set up a Humble Bundle [https://www.humblebundle.com/]-style "pay as you like" system.

To kick things off, Skyrim will also available to play for free this weekend, until April 26.

While this sounds pretty rosy for creators and consumers alike, there are of course a fair share of caveats with the system. Firstly, creators only receive 25% of the revenue from mods [https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/about/?appid=72850], with the remaining 75% to be split between Valve and the game's publisher (in this case, Bethesda). Furthermore, Valve will only pay out its creators once there is at least $100 to pay them, meaning that mods will have to make a minimum of $400 before their creators see a cent.

From the consumer side of things, anyone who has ever played World of Warcraft will know the pain of a game releasing an update that breaks all of your mods. So what happens when a mod you paid for gets broken and the developer has abandoned it? According to the official FAQ, you're on your own, buddy [http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent]. Valve will only offer a refund for paid mods within the first 24 hours, after which it suggests you "post politely on the Workshop item's page and let the mod author know" about your problems.

What do you guys think about this? The reaction on forums and online communities has been pretty negative, based mostly on the fact that Valve doesn't really have a good track record with customer service, and this initiative seems like it would generate a lot of complaints and requests.

Source: Steam [http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/aboutpaidcontent]

Permalink

All paid mods have been removed from Steam:

Reddit is celebrating, although no one seems certain what this means

http://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/33qint/paid_content_no_longer_available_on_steam_checked/

If you could reach out to Valve for a bit of info that would be great!

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

All paid mods have been removed from Steam:

Reddit is celebrating, although no one seems certain what this means

http://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/33qint/paid_content_no_longer_available_on_steam_checked/

If you could reach out to Valve for a bit of info that would be great!

Technical issues, I'm assuming. I just checked, they're back up.

captcha: happy blessings

I wish.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Money for Mods: Valve Announces Paid Skyrim Mods

All paid mods have been removed from Steam:

Spoiler

Reddit is celebrating, although no one seems certain what this means

http://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/33qint/paid_content_no_longer_available_on_steam_checked/

If you could reach out to Valve for a bit of info that would be great!

Technical issues, I'm assuming. I just checked, they're back up.

captcha: happy blessings

I wish.

Ahh, you're right, they're all back up again. Never mind about contacting Bethesda then.

The main issue I have with this is that it will completely kill the easy drop in / drop out ability of mods that Skyrim previously had.

I have currently got over 90 mods running whenever I load up Skyrim. From a single weapon or armour set to huge overhauls. But I've downloaded over 300 mods in my Skyrim career. Most of these were either not to my personal preference, glitchy, superceded by better mods, or conflicted with other mods, but I would have had nowhere near the game I have today if every single mod was a microtransaction, in fact I wouldn't have bought any because I'm that stingy.

For me the great draw of Skyrim was the freedom that mods give players. Introducing fees every single time you want to 'experiment' with a particular mod completely stunts that. It utterly massacres the lighthearted, free experimental nature of mods and turns it into an actual business decision.
I am no longer downloading a mod, I'm purchasing a product, and that completely changes the dynamics of the modding community, forever!

I had a look and one of the mods I use (iNeed Food/Drink/Sleep) is now a pay-to-use mod. I love it, but if that paywall was there initially I would never have installed it. Now the free Nexus version is unsupported (no more updates/bug fixes/compatibility fixes) So yeah.


It's suggested that Fallout 4 and the next Elder Scrolls games will have these paid systems locked into them. If that hadn't been the case I would have been buying both within the first week of their releases. Now, I'm not sure if I'll bother putting the money down at all (even on a crazy Steam sale) because I'd know that all that extra potential content is locked off from me, and the games will have to stand on their own bugged-to-hell, shallow merits.