Monster Hunter Tri

[milskidasith]

Do you really think any of those folks were ever going to buy this game? If they were so easily swayed by a couple minutes of Yahtzee talking, they probably weren't going to buy the game in the first place.

Some people might not have heard of the game before Yahtzee reviewed it, and then decided not to look up anything more after seeing him pissing his pants about it. That's not an idiot, that's just someone who doesn't give a lot of thought to something they haven't heard of before. To more than a few people, Yahtzee's MH3 'review' is the first and last things they'll hear about the game. That doesn't make them idiots.

For what it's worth, I'm an exception to this; the review made me interested. It was the slapfight in this thread and the one connected to the video, and the fact a lot of the defenders made the game sound boring and deeply flawed that were convincing me not to buy it.

Also, I'm now confused. Are MH fans defending this game because they fear it losing sales, even though one of its chief defenders in both threads has admitted it's making serious bank? Why? If it's making good money, what do you care? That'll compell them to bring over more MH games, which presumably you'd LIKE them to do.

Jeez, how many times do I have to repeat this:

Just because the game is selling well doesn't mean that Yahtzee cannot decrease sales by causing people to have misconceptions about the game. My purpose is not to salvage the game from obscurity; it's definitely selling well, but to inform the people reading the forums that Yahtzee is, to put it bluntly, either wrong (some of the contents of his video) or, basically, outright lying (the ten hour tutorial part; exaggeration or not, it's bringing up a criticism that doesn't exist in the actual game).

 

[milskidasith]

Played a friend's copy. It's not a 10 hour tutorial, but it certainly feels like you aren't doing shit for the first 10 hours but grinding your ass off. Seriously, if I wanted to play the first 79 levels of WoW again, I would play fucking WoW. And that's exactly what it is, the first 79 levels of WoW.

The big boss fights feel like raid encounters for total retards, so it's really just a shitty MMORPG hiding behind a console.

Y'know, I really doubt you've actually played the game, just because A: within 10 hours you are far beyond the point all your required missions (and almost all missions in general) are "Go kill big monsters", excluding the "Go gather up resources if you want and come back between five and fifty minutes" missions which are completely optional, B: there's no level system, and C: raid encounters in WoW are nothing like this. Seriously, I've played WoW, and there's a huge difference between the two, not that either are inherently better or worse than the other.

 

[thublihnk]

While I respect Yahtzee's critical voice I don't, nor does fucking ANYONE buy or not buy games based on his reviews. If they state that they aren't because of his review, they probably weren't to jazzed about the game anyway.

If someone in a public position (such as Yahtzee) says something, someone else will do it. If there weren't a significant enough number of highly suggestible people out there, the Mythbusters and every car commercial ever wouldn't have to say "Don't try this at home".

Well then we've stopped the thicks from buying MH3, a largely multiplayer game if I'm not mistaken, and the game is better for it.

Because we all know that less sales of a game due to misconceptions about it are a good thing, right? It's obviously great for the fans of a series who would rather the games get sent here instead of being Japanese exclusives, right?

First of all, MH3 is a niche market game for reasons I've already discussed. Second of all, I'm talking about thicks. Fucking MORONS. IDIOTS. Again, do you REALLy want them playing your multiplayer game?

Thirdly, and most importantly, Tri's been selling like hot cakes and neither I nor Yahtzee can do a damn thing to stop it, so your argument is moot.

Holy shit the hypocrisy here is thick.

First of all, there's a difference between "bad at the game" and "idiots" and, even further, just because you listen to Yahtzee's doesn't mean you're an idiot. Even further, you can avoid idiots, you can't avoid lost game sales.

Second, the hypocritical part: You're claiming it's a niche market, yet selling absurdly well. How do the two mix? Monster Hunter is one of the highest selling games recently, has a huge amount of marketing, and is massive in Japan. It's not niche. It's huge. It's a, forgive the terrible pun, monster franchise for Capcom.

Third: Yahtzee *has* lost sales. Look at all the people in the video thread and this one that have said "holy shit that looks terrible" or "10 hour tutorial? That's terrible."

Those are all lost sales.

I'm actually starting to think you're just trolling, especially considering your insane overreaction to anybody who disagrees with you and the fact your posts seem to be as intentionally abrasive as possible.

First: You don't know what hypocrisy is.
Second: You don't know what trolling is.

Yes, listening to Yahtzee and basing purchasing decisions based solely on his opinions does make a person a fucking idiot. There is one exception to this rule. His name is Yahtzee.

And yes, a game can sell very well for a niche game. And yes, it is a niche game HERE, because it's inaccessible and unappealing to audiences here for reasons that have been pretty clearly displayed.

Do you really think any of those folks were ever going to buy this game? If they were so easily swayed by a couple minutes of Yahtzee talking, they probably weren't going to buy the game in the first place.

You are a hypocrite. I know what it means.

Sales are sales, it doesn't matter if the people are dumb, especially considering you can be dumb and still good at games. Hell, you can be dumb and still be good at "thinking man's games" such as quite a few chess savants.

It's not a niche game here. It's sold incredibly well, and it's an action game, that's hardly a niche genre. It's only a niche in the fact that it wasn't big in the US before this game; it's sold very well even compared to mainstream games.

Twinmill, thank you.

You CLEARLY don't. If I were a hypocrite I would, say, tell you that I do-or-don't buy games based on Yahtzee's critical opinions then told someone they were teh dumb for buying a game that Yahtzee didn't like. He's god! I worship him! Straawwww maaaan!

I find it funny that you say Yahtzee is stealing sales in one paragraph, then tell me how it's oh-so-very-un-niche and is selling quite well in the next. I suppose that fits in your definition of hypocrisy? (It's called self-contradiction, thanks) So yes, sales are sales, but what do you care? It's selling quite well, even when compared to mainstream games.

Anyway, I'm going to go. It's become pretty clear that we're not debating anything now, you're just disagreeing with every point I make whether or not it helps your argument, to the point where you're blatantly arguing with yourself over the course of one post.

Toodles.

P.S. Mythbusters is awesome, so you're still OK in my book.

It's selling well. That doesn't mean Yahtzee can't cause the sales to be lower than they would by dissuading viewers. Seriously, do you understand just how stupid that argument is? Your argument basically says "It's selling well, so no outside factors can possibly cause it to sell less."

As for the hypocrisy: It was the fact you claimed it was a niche game, then claimed it was selling well. That was the hypocrisy.

FFF, I have to reply to this. Sorry.

The basis of your argument is that the livelihood of your game is threatened by Yahtzee. That is clearly not the case. So then why does it matter?

And that is not hypocrisy. Hypocrisy is telling other people not to do something and then doing it yourself. Again, what you're describing is self-contradiction, and a niche game can sell well for a niche game. It's not posting MW2 sales figures, but it's more than making back its development budget and justifying further sequels.

It's not that the game's livelihood is threatened. It's that the material Yahtzee is providing causes misconceptions among potential buyers, and I'm trying to set the facts straight; many of his criticisms are flat out wrong in both the original video and Extra Punctuation. The other issue is that many people, yourself included in earlier posts, have strawmanned out my position to being some whiny ***** who doesn't like the fact that Yahtzee doesn't like a game I like.

OK, I'll admit it. I got the definition wrong.

You're being self contradictory. Happy?

Not really, because I'm not being self-contradictory. As I described pretty clearly in that it sold well for a niche game. I can't stress that enough. Whatever. Dropping that.

And I get that the ZP and the XP mischaracterized the game you're apparently doing PR work for, and jokes aside if someone was doing that to a game I really cared about I'd get a little cheesed. I get that. But what I don't get is treating people who don't agree with you about a game like they're fucking morons because they 'don't get it' and are being 'lead around by Yahtzee like some ignorant little sheep'.

(Not direct quotes, but i wouldn't be surprised if someone had said them somewhere in this thread.)

 

[poiuppx]

Do you really think any of those folks were ever going to buy this game? If they were so easily swayed by a couple minutes of Yahtzee talking, they probably weren't going to buy the game in the first place.

Some people might not have heard of the game before Yahtzee reviewed it, and then decided not to look up anything more after seeing him pissing his pants about it. That's not an idiot, that's just someone who doesn't give a lot of thought to something they haven't heard of before. To more than a few people, Yahtzee's MH3 'review' is the first and last things they'll hear about the game. That doesn't make them idiots.

For what it's worth, I'm an exception to this; the review made me interested. It was the slapfight in this thread and the one connected to the video, and the fact a lot of the defenders made the game sound boring and deeply flawed that were convincing me not to buy it.

Also, I'm now confused. Are MH fans defending this game because they fear it losing sales, even though one of its chief defenders in both threads has admitted it's making serious bank? Why? If it's making good money, what do you care? That'll compell them to bring over more MH games, which presumably you'd LIKE them to do.

Jeez, how many times do I have to repeat this:

Just because the game is selling well doesn't mean that Yahtzee cannot decrease sales by causing people to have misconceptions about the game. My purpose is not to salvage the game from obscurity; it's definitely selling well, but to inform the people reading the forums that Yahtzee is, to put it bluntly, either wrong (some of the contents of his video) or, basically, outright lying (the ten hour tutorial part; exaggeration or not, it's bringing up a criticism that doesn't exist in the actual game).

Well, there in lies the rub. You're rather, well, aggressively repeating your point. As in, to the point that you responded to my honest inquiry like I was attacking your manhood, or at the least you were sick of the illiterate plebs you need to spell things out to.

I think between the... how many pages was the other thread? 18? 19? Plus the 15 here, the points you can make are basically made. People will either listen to them and accept he's wrong, or they won't. But being overly aggressive about it isn't going to win you any converts.

Like I said earlier, it's the descriptions folks like you tossed out there in the game's favor that killed my interest, while the review ironically made me interested thanks to that wonderful critical thinking ability humans suppossedly possess. You know, where I can pick up on certain key words and phrases that I would find interesting even if he didn't, be capable of ignoring certain elements due to pattern recognition- he sticks so hard to the negative he's basically fused with it, which is the crux of his humor -and then make my own decisions based on looking for outside information... like, say, reading a response thread and deciding based on the input of the folks who have played and liked/disliked the game if it sounds like it's worth a buy or not.

And while one of your fellow MH fans sold me on looking for a used PSP MH game to give it a cheap portable whirl, the rest of this madness just convinced me the Wii version isn't worth my dimes. That's not Yahtzee's fault, that's the fault of fans like yourself in both these threads making the game legitimately sound dull, repeatitive, and just not worth buying, especially not new. And being overly aggressive and trying to make certain you spread the truth about Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation is made from people?) didn't help that any.

 

[poiuppx]

Do you really think any of those folks were ever going to buy this game? If they were so easily swayed by a couple minutes of Yahtzee talking, they probably weren't going to buy the game in the first place.

Some people might not have heard of the game before Yahtzee reviewed it, and then decided not to look up anything more after seeing him pissing his pants about it. That's not an idiot, that's just someone who doesn't give a lot of thought to something they haven't heard of before. To more than a few people, Yahtzee's MH3 'review' is the first and last things they'll hear about the game. That doesn't make them idiots.

For what it's worth, I'm an exception to this; the review made me interested. It was the slapfight in this thread and the one connected to the video, and the fact a lot of the defenders made the game sound boring and deeply flawed that were convincing me not to buy it.

Also, I'm now confused. Are MH fans defending this game because they fear it losing sales, even though one of its chief defenders in both threads has admitted it's making serious bank? Why? If it's making good money, what do you care? That'll compell them to bring over more MH games, which presumably you'd LIKE them to do.

It's not just it making good money. Fans of Monster Hunter want more people to play it, even if a lot already are! If we meet people that have a Wii, enjoy games, but haven't heard of Monster Hunter, we would say, "Hey you should try Monster Hunter, I'll play with you online." I personally want them to make as much money fairly as they can, because I want to play the MMO Frontier.

But alongside that, it's rather upsetting that Yahtzee might stop people from enjoying Monster Hunter that may have actually liked the game quite a bit, if they hadn't been turned away from it by his reviews.

As for the game sounding deeply flawed and boring, you're going off of people who probably aren't accurately describing it. If you want a game with a story at all, MH isn't it. If you want a game where you can set a pitfall trap on the ground, put a bunch of barrel bombs around it, then make your friend's little brother run up to the monster and throw a rock at it, baiting it into the trap as it chases him and he tries not to die, then you'll find a great game here. It requires a lot of strategic thinking, managing your time and resources for maximum effect. It requires learning how to use your weapons, as opposed to games like WoW where axes, swords, polearms, and maces function identically. But it's worth it when you bag a record-setting Rathian.

...okay, THIS is probably the only post I've seen that actually described the tactical element in a way that sounds fun and unique. Seriously, up until now in over thirty pages of comments between both threads, the fans made it sound like WoW grinding with a real-time VATS aiming system. Seriously, I can excuse a total lack of story or plot if the gameplay is that deep and tactical. How hard would it have been for, well, ANY of the white-knights defending Capcom's honor to have made this point, instead of 'Fighting sea monsters with hammers iz kool!' or hammering on about the tutorial's length?

Actually, that does remind me. He said he'd been getting emails about this, and that was where he pulled the 10 hour part from. Maybe some of the defenders really blew it on this one. After all, you guys said it never exactly defines for you when the tutorial ends... maybe he thought the folks saying this were like the FFXIII fanatics who were defending a 20 hour slog of hell because 'it gets better later', and that set him off. It's a shame he does XP now, I'd have enjoyed seeing an actual mailbag part 2 for this. For all the blame being heaped onto him for that figure, mayhaps we're not seeing the full story here...

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Yahtzee = Noob

Seriously it took me 2 hours to get to the great jaggi. I killed it with a greatsword, actually second greatsword in the bone series (Slowest weapon in the game).

If you're *really* that worried about a monster murdering you whilst you're trying to re-sharpen your sword, then you ZONE because that's what they are there for.

It's called 'skill' Yahtzee. Thank fuck you don't go online because you sound like the noob that would not only be the guy that dies three times trying to kill Rathian .... but then scream in our ear over wiispeak complaining about things like 'how it's too tough' ... and 'how hard it is to use the weapons'.

Given you can only have 4 players per room because EU/US servers are free you would have probably been shouted out of most cities after said hunt.

If you're complaining that the game is hard, that it requires good timing to get a hit on the enemy, and that there are loads of them ..... well you're a NOOB.

Would you run Galaga through the mud for the same problems? Monster Hunter Tri = perfection of gameplaying ability through repetition and reinterpretation of challenges. Like how OLD games used to be before it became all about 'the spectacle' as you say in FFXIII.

I don't blame you if you have become like the mountain of pre-pubescent noobs out there that can't remember how good gaming was before shaders and lighting effects were given as much time to perfect as gameplay in a game....

I don't even blame you when you overlook that the things you're discussing lie in the general realm of 'talent'.

I don't even blame you about the fallacious argument that it takes 10 hours to get up to your first big monster.

But when you start criticising the things that made Old games better than the pile of modern detritus to entertain us (you know, things requiring good reflex times, being challenging, and perfection of skill through differing circumstances) then you're just being a NOOB.

Seriously Yahtzee, don't hate on a game because your total gaming skill is tantamount to pushing green, red, blue and yellow buttons when a game tells you to.

 

[BrilliantCircle]

Do you really think any of those folks were ever going to buy this game? If they were so easily swayed by a couple minutes of Yahtzee talking, they probably weren't going to buy the game in the first place.

Some people might not have heard of the game before Yahtzee reviewed it, and then decided not to look up anything more after seeing him pissing his pants about it. That's not an idiot, that's just someone who doesn't give a lot of thought to something they haven't heard of before. To more than a few people, Yahtzee's MH3 'review' is the first and last things they'll hear about the game. That doesn't make them idiots.

For what it's worth, I'm an exception to this; the review made me interested. It was the slapfight in this thread and the one connected to the video, and the fact a lot of the defenders made the game sound boring and deeply flawed that were convincing me not to buy it.

Also, I'm now confused. Are MH fans defending this game because they fear it losing sales, even though one of its chief defenders in both threads has admitted it's making serious bank? Why? If it's making good money, what do you care? That'll compell them to bring over more MH games, which presumably you'd LIKE them to do.

Jeez, how many times do I have to repeat this:

Just because the game is selling well doesn't mean that Yahtzee cannot decrease sales by causing people to have misconceptions about the game. My purpose is not to salvage the game from obscurity; it's definitely selling well, but to inform the people reading the forums that Yahtzee is, to put it bluntly, either wrong (some of the contents of his video) or, basically, outright lying (the ten hour tutorial part; exaggeration or not, it's bringing up a criticism that doesn't exist in the actual game).

Well, there in lies the rub. You're rather, well, aggressively repeating your point. As in, to the point that you responded to my honest inquiry like I was attacking your manhood, or at the least you were sick of the illiterate plebs you need to spell things out to.

I think between the... how many pages was the other thread? 18? 19? Plus the 15 here, the points you can make are basically made. People will either listen to them and accept he's wrong, or they won't. But being overly aggressive about it isn't going to win you any converts.

Like I said earlier, it's the descriptions folks like you tossed out there in the game's favor that killed my interest, while the review ironically made me interested thanks to that wonderful critical thinking ability humans suppossedly possess. You know, where I can pick up on certain key words and phrases that I would find interesting even if he didn't, be capable of ignoring certain elements due to pattern recognition- he sticks so hard to the negative he's basically fused with it, which is the crux of his humor -and then make my own decisions based on looking for outside information... like, say, reading a response thread and deciding based on the input of the folks who have played and liked/disliked the game if it sounds like it's worth a buy or not.

And while one of your fellow MH fans sold me on looking for a used PSP MH game to give it a cheap portable whirl, the rest of this madness just convinced me the Wii version isn't worth my dimes. That's not Yahtzee's fault, that's the fault of fans like yourself in both these threads making the game legitimately sound dull, repeatitive, and just not worth buying, especially not new. And being overly aggressive and trying to make certain you spread the truth about Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation is made from people?) didn't help that any.

Yahtzee did not review the game, that's the main point that every fan of the game is saying. He reviewed the tutorial of the game. If you liked the game based on what Yahtzee said the game was, then you will not like Monster Hunter, because that is not the game.

Also MH3 is kind of like a breath of fresh air for Monster Hunter. It removed all the bloat the previous games had, being that they were more like expansions rather than sequels. MH3 took away a lot of equipment and monsters, added in different ones and then added in new features.

They will add those missing things back in for Monster Hunter Portable 3rd, with some of the things from MH3. So playing MHFU will get you more ready for MHP3 and you'll probably enjoy it more, if you do end up liking Monster Hunter of course. MH3 is a lot easier than MHFU though.

 

[poiuppx]

Do you really think any of those folks were ever going to buy this game? If they were so easily swayed by a couple minutes of Yahtzee talking, they probably weren't going to buy the game in the first place.

Some people might not have heard of the game before Yahtzee reviewed it, and then decided not to look up anything more after seeing him pissing his pants about it. That's not an idiot, that's just someone who doesn't give a lot of thought to something they haven't heard of before. To more than a few people, Yahtzee's MH3 'review' is the first and last things they'll hear about the game. That doesn't make them idiots.

For what it's worth, I'm an exception to this; the review made me interested. It was the slapfight in this thread and the one connected to the video, and the fact a lot of the defenders made the game sound boring and deeply flawed that were convincing me not to buy it.

Also, I'm now confused. Are MH fans defending this game because they fear it losing sales, even though one of its chief defenders in both threads has admitted it's making serious bank? Why? If it's making good money, what do you care? That'll compell them to bring over more MH games, which presumably you'd LIKE them to do.

Jeez, how many times do I have to repeat this:

Just because the game is selling well doesn't mean that Yahtzee cannot decrease sales by causing people to have misconceptions about the game. My purpose is not to salvage the game from obscurity; it's definitely selling well, but to inform the people reading the forums that Yahtzee is, to put it bluntly, either wrong (some of the contents of his video) or, basically, outright lying (the ten hour tutorial part; exaggeration or not, it's bringing up a criticism that doesn't exist in the actual game).

Well, there in lies the rub. You're rather, well, aggressively repeating your point. As in, to the point that you responded to my honest inquiry like I was attacking your manhood, or at the least you were sick of the illiterate plebs you need to spell things out to.

I think between the... how many pages was the other thread? 18? 19? Plus the 15 here, the points you can make are basically made. People will either listen to them and accept he's wrong, or they won't. But being overly aggressive about it isn't going to win you any converts.

Like I said earlier, it's the descriptions folks like you tossed out there in the game's favor that killed my interest, while the review ironically made me interested thanks to that wonderful critical thinking ability humans suppossedly possess. You know, where I can pick up on certain key words and phrases that I would find interesting even if he didn't, be capable of ignoring certain elements due to pattern recognition- he sticks so hard to the negative he's basically fused with it, which is the crux of his humor -and then make my own decisions based on looking for outside information... like, say, reading a response thread and deciding based on the input of the folks who have played and liked/disliked the game if it sounds like it's worth a buy or not.

And while one of your fellow MH fans sold me on looking for a used PSP MH game to give it a cheap portable whirl, the rest of this madness just convinced me the Wii version isn't worth my dimes. That's not Yahtzee's fault, that's the fault of fans like yourself in both these threads making the game legitimately sound dull, repeatitive, and just not worth buying, especially not new. And being overly aggressive and trying to make certain you spread the truth about Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation is made from people?) didn't help that any.

Yahtzee did not review the game, that's the main point that every fan of the game is saying. He reviewed the tutorial of the game. If you liked the game based on what Yahtzee said the game was, then you will not like Monster Hunter, because that is not the game.

Also MH3 is kind of like a breath of fresh air for Monster Hunter. It removed all the bloat the previous games had, being that they were more like expansions rather than sequels. MH3 took away a lot of equipment and monsters, added in different ones and then added in new features.

They will add those missing things back in for Monster Hunter Portable 3rd, with some of the things from MH3. So playing MHFU will get you more ready for MHP3 and you'll probably enjoy it more, if you do end up liking Monster Hunter of course. MH3 is a lot easier than MHFU though.

Well, what I liked was the idea of fighting lots of monsters, collecting items, exploring a large game world, and seeing some, as he put it, breathtaking vistas. Are you saying none of this is what the game is about?

There seems to be some weird dissociative thing going on here where folks assume all the Yahtzee fans are taking him at face value. Who in their right mind takes ANY critic at face value, no matter how well drawn his imps are or how fun his point and click horror adventure games may be?

If his reccomendations hit the spot for you everytime, then bully for you, he's an easy mark to decide if a game'd be fun for you or not. Since that rarely works for anything, you instead need to apply actual thought to what you hear folks spew out.

Also, thanks for the extra info on the game series. Sounds like they do have a competant team working on this one, given the trimming of excess bloat, as you put it. Any long running series can accumulate a bit too much of that, unless it's extremely simple in design and gameplay. And even then it can be cocked up: see, Dynasty Warriors 6.

 

[Mufujumon]

I've played a bit of monster hunter in my time, and have a few friends who swear that game is godlike, buy I've always thought that a game about killing giant monsters should really incorporate less questing/gathering/grinding and more... killing giant monsters? Maybe it's just me, but in Monster Hunter shouldn't you probably spend your time Hunting Monsters and not farming (literally and figuratively)?

Also, I'd allow creative exaggeration when reading anything by Yahtzee. 10 hours basically means 'way too long'. 90 minutes for a tutorial is still a bloody long time.

True. The man is an entertainer, remember, so not every single thing he says is absolute fact.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Jesus fucking christ people. Will you stop defending this game for reasons it doesn't deserve to be defended for?

This tutorial thing we keep hearing about. Any tutorial longer than 20 minutes is abysmally bad design and you know it.

In your opinion maybe. Not every game is simple enough to be learned in 20 minutes.
Then again, I don't pretend to set these arbitrary standards and force them down everyone's throats as though it's an argument.

Also, calling bullshit on everyone defending the sharpness system. It's almost as bad a design choice as the stupid tutorial. Why? Because it's repetetive, completely unnecessary in a fantasy game or almost any game that isn't shooting to be S.T.A.L.K.E.R. or Fallout 3 and just plain dumb from what I've read here.

You contradicted yourself.
Is it unnecessary or is is not? If so, why are those other games excused?
If you cannot explain this, you created a double-standard; a fallacy.

Those other games you mentioned even share some of the core elements of Monster Hunter (Survival, scrounging up what you can), and have the item/weapon degradation for the same exact purposes: a limitation on the player's lasting power in a fight.

Sharpness is used as a gameplay element because most boss monsters have varying levels of armor on different parts of their body. Ironically, weapon degradation served little purpose other than fluff in Fallout 3 because enemies dropped so many weapons of the same type anyway.

Also, yeah, this isn't an RPG game unless you're gonna start calling any game that gives you the least bit of choice on your weapons or whatnot; case in point, God of War was never an RPG, this isn't either.

Oh no. Don't drag this topic into that territory.
You can ask 10 different gamers what "RPG" means and get 10 wildly different answers.
This is the gamer equivalent of "Orthodox vs Catholic vs Protestant".

 

[dwitefry]

40 pages is a lot of pages to discuss what is essentialy some bloke you know saying 'Eh, didn't play it for very long cos it pissed me off' which, I've always thought, was pretty common and generally acceptable.

Why did you post in these two threads? And then, if you did, why did you continue to keep posting? Think about it, be really honest with yourself. Why? Well I've read two thirds of these threads and I've just asked myself why, and I couldn't give myself a good enough answer. I hope you can, some of you actually seem like you do have good answers, not 40 pages of you though.

MeX

 

[RaphaelsRedemption]

If I was Yahtzee, I would not have dignified this with a response.

Of course, that fact that it was controversial enough to get the Escapist so much publicity is a good thing. I can see the sense of rolling with this until the furore dies down a little and we can all go back to fighting over PC vs. Mac and computer vs. consoles.

I'm going to sound like a fanboy, but here goes: Yahtzee does not have to listen to you. He is here to entertain, and if he's clever he'll watch your comments to see what you like. But a million emails saying "BOO!" will not stop reviews such as "Monster Hunter Tri ZP" coming out. On the contrary, I feel that Yahtzee probably knows you like fighting. You LIKE being all offended and upset. Otherwise you wouldn't have gone to the effort of emailing him... would you, now?

Why should ZP stop making controversial videos that gain ton of comments, publicity and discussion? I don't feel any need to play Monster Hunter Tri now, but at least now I'll remember it, which is more than can be said than if he'd made a video dripping with praise and approval.

DISLAIMER: In paragraph 3, I use the word "you". That's you, the person who ha been following this debacle, and more specifically, you, the person who was butthurt that Yahtzee didn't like your favourite game. You are generic, not any person I know individually. And you gave Yahtzee so much publicity it's amazing. Well done.

 

[Urf]

I like MH3 and was looking forward to a good bashing of it.
Instead I got "I couldn't be bothered to play for 2 hours".
I don't believe you played to the boss before the review else you would have added it to the review (and subsequently made it worthwhile). The bosses are the meat and potatoes of the game, not including it made it boring, whiny and disappointing. I wasn't expecting you to like MH3 (I am no where near that thick), I was expecting a fun ripping of the game. Instead we got Yahtzee hates MMOs and Japan (STOP THE PRESSES!).

you know what? go watch EVERY SINGLE ZP and take every little statement into account.

also, he was basically saying CRAP = BAD. its not he couldn't be bother, its that the game was a fungal piece of shit and he wanted to stop because it was agonizing him.

pretty much like when I played Haven: Call of the king...

I've been a fan (and will continue to be if this video isn't starting a trend) from before Yahtzee came to the Escapist, back when he did LPs and made adventure games too.
His latest review failed to be entertaining. He can say MH3 is a bad game but that doesn't stop his video from being subpar, you'd think the opposite would be true if that was really the case.
I didn't want him to like MH3, I wanted him to hate it better than he did.

 

[Carnagath]

I gotta be honest, the Monster Hunter series is only for the most hard core of gamers, it's a long fucking game that never truly ends and to master it you must put in a LOT of hours....like me!

Length doesn't make a game "hardcore".

 

[DoW Lowen]

"I have a simple rule when playing a game to review. I play until the game is finished, or until I can't stand any more."

Actually, that's a durn good policy for playing games to review. It's efficient for you, and useful for us.

Incidentally, I'm fine with long tutorials to a point (I liked Kingdom Hearts, didn't I?), but the "it gets better later" excuse just doesn't fly. There's a difference between an introduction/tutorial and sheer boring tedium for several hours running.

Massive difference in Kingdom Hearts, especially number 2. The tutorial was less of a tutorial and more a really good side story.

Also when Yahtzee says tutorial I'm pretty sure he means that one point where you can fully encompass the game. Game design is like novella writing, just because you understand it doesn't mean the audience will - so stop being a pretentious prick and understand you're writing for someone else (I say this to people not the person I'm quoting).

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Option A: Buy Monster Hunter Tri and start having fun in 3 or 4 days (depending on how much gaming you do).

Option B: Buy just about anything else and have fun right now.

Yeah, I think I'm happy with my purchase of Tetris Party Deluxe given the options.

 

[milskidasith]

Do you really think any of those folks were ever going to buy this game? If they were so easily swayed by a couple minutes of Yahtzee talking, they probably weren't going to buy the game in the first place.

Some people might not have heard of the game before Yahtzee reviewed it, and then decided not to look up anything more after seeing him pissing his pants about it. That's not an idiot, that's just someone who doesn't give a lot of thought to something they haven't heard of before. To more than a few people, Yahtzee's MH3 'review' is the first and last things they'll hear about the game. That doesn't make them idiots.

For what it's worth, I'm an exception to this; the review made me interested. It was the slapfight in this thread and the one connected to the video, and the fact a lot of the defenders made the game sound boring and deeply flawed that were convincing me not to buy it.

Also, I'm now confused. Are MH fans defending this game because they fear it losing sales, even though one of its chief defenders in both threads has admitted it's making serious bank? Why? If it's making good money, what do you care? That'll compell them to bring over more MH games, which presumably you'd LIKE them to do.

Jeez, how many times do I have to repeat this:

Just because the game is selling well doesn't mean that Yahtzee cannot decrease sales by causing people to have misconceptions about the game. My purpose is not to salvage the game from obscurity; it's definitely selling well, but to inform the people reading the forums that Yahtzee is, to put it bluntly, either wrong (some of the contents of his video) or, basically, outright lying (the ten hour tutorial part; exaggeration or not, it's bringing up a criticism that doesn't exist in the actual game).

Well, there in lies the rub. You're rather, well, aggressively repeating your point. As in, to the point that you responded to my honest inquiry like I was attacking your manhood, or at the least you were sick of the illiterate plebs you need to spell things out to.

I think between the... how many pages was the other thread? 18? 19? Plus the 15 here, the points you can make are basically made. People will either listen to them and accept he's wrong, or they won't. But being overly aggressive about it isn't going to win you any converts.

Like I said earlier, it's the descriptions folks like you tossed out there in the game's favor that killed my interest, while the review ironically made me interested thanks to that wonderful critical thinking ability humans suppossedly possess. You know, where I can pick up on certain key words and phrases that I would find interesting even if he didn't, be capable of ignoring certain elements due to pattern recognition- he sticks so hard to the negative he's basically fused with it, which is the crux of his humor -and then make my own decisions based on looking for outside information... like, say, reading a response thread and deciding based on the input of the folks who have played and liked/disliked the game if it sounds like it's worth a buy or not.

And while one of your fellow MH fans sold me on looking for a used PSP MH game to give it a cheap portable whirl, the rest of this madness just convinced me the Wii version isn't worth my dimes. That's not Yahtzee's fault, that's the fault of fans like yourself in both these threads making the game legitimately sound dull, repeatitive, and just not worth buying, especially not new. And being overly aggressive and trying to make certain you spread the truth about Yahtzee (Zero Punctuation is made from people?) didn't help that any.

I am annoyed I have to keep repeating my point. It's because people won't read the discussion that's taken place, and ask the same questions over and over, and I answer. It doesn't change anything. I'm not taking it personally, it's just annoying when every two pages somebody says "Oh my god people are just attacking Yahtzee" or "A ten hour tutorial? What the hell?" or "It's selling well, why do you care?" Your case was especially annoying considering you asked it right after I pointed out it could still cause lost sales. It's not that I'm emotionally attached, it just gets tedious repeating things.

If you think I'm too aggressive, fine. If you want to say that somehow I've made the game sound repetitive solely by denying that it has a 10 hour tutorial and saying that Yahtzee clearly didn't play it (when it was just the video up), fine, I don't care.

Edit: As for what you've said about how the fans describe the game, no fan described it as like an RPG (I've actively claimed it is an action game), and I don't even know who mentioned that it has a VATS aiming system. The only time it was ever mentioned as like an MMO was when Yahtzee said it and one other person claimed it was like doing raid quests, but dumbed down, which the game is nothing like.

As for why I haven't actually explained the game: Why would I? I'm just pointing out what Yahtzee got wrong and, after that, pointing out that:

I don't hate Yahtzee
I'm not complaining about how he criticized a game I like
He's still not being honest with Extra Punctuation.
The fans aren't complaining about how a long tutorial isn't a bad thing, just that the tutorial isn't very long at all.

Why would I just randomly spurt out an explanation of the entire game? It has nothing to do with why I disliked this episode of ZP/why I didn't like this Extra Punctuation.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Jesus fucking christ people. Will you stop defending this game for reasons it doesn't deserve to be defended for?

This tutorial thing we keep hearing about. Any tutorial longer than 20 minutes is abysmally bad design and you know it.

In your opinion maybe. Not every game is simple enough to be learned in 20 minutes.
Then again, I don't pretend to set these arbitrary standards and force them down everyone's throats as though it's an argument.

I've played some pretty complex games in my day, and none of them took more than maybe an hour to learn the basic stuff.

Also, yeah, this isn't an RPG game unless you're gonna start calling any game that gives you the least bit of choice on your weapons or whatnot; case in point, God of War was never an RPG, this isn't either.

Oh no. Don't drag this topic into that territory.
You can ask 10 different gamers what "RPG" means and get 10 wildly different answers.
This is the gamer equivalent of "Orthodox vs Catholic vs Protestant".[/quote]The most basic definition of an RPG in a video game is when you can earn experience to grow in level, thus increasing your character's power. After that point is about when the "10 different people giving 10 wildly different answers" part comes in, but if it lacks even that opening phrase, then I'm sorry, but it's not an RPG. Just taking place in a medieval setting isn't enough.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

I gotta be honest, the Monster Hunter series is only for the most hard core of gamers, it's a long fucking game that never truly ends and to master it you must put in a LOT of hours....like me!

Length doesn't make a game "hardcore".

No, skill and dedication is the prerequisite of what games used to (and should) expect.

Yahtzee complained that he had trouble with a great jaggi (of all things) ... I used to throw a bit of credence to Yahtzee when picking a game, but when he complains he had trouble with a jaggi (offline) then that's when you should start turning around and asking "Okay, is yahtzee even a gamer?"

Monster Hunter Tri is about "well swimming can be hard if you haven't experienced before ... so here's the basics and try to stick to the 'shallow end' for awhile".

If you're experienced and skilled at action rpgs (Which I think the term 'rpg' is well defined in MHT due to the vast playing styles each weapon brings to the foray) you can literally dive into the deep end from the first second.

Simply go online and your 'deep-end' immersion of said swimming pool analogy is complete.

But FFS Yahtzee, after the so-called '10 hour tutorial' (for which I cannot yell the phrase 'Bullshit, Bullshit, Bullshit' enough.) couldn't kill a Great Jaggi, maybe he's not a gamer?

I think most people who have experienced MHT (or indeed any MH) can attest to this.

I have problems with the term 'hardcore' ... seriously ... When Yahtzee compares things to Guitar Hero I feel like screaming 'Stick to fucking casual games ... just don't compare the fucking two'.

He did the same thing with SSBB. I can't help but feel like Yahtzee isn't really geared to Hardcore, and automatically attacks anything challenging ... which is evident by the fact that he hates online multiplayer.