Monster Hunter Tri

[Serafis]

Well I did finish the tutorial in like 3 hours...

This game basically is fun only if you were first addicted to the first game. It's just a very niche game, which is why this is getting quite a bit of hate. Ben also hates dungeon crawlers, which again few people actually appreciate.

I certainly would have liked it better if monster battles would take only 10 minutes or so even if I had OK weapons. Otherwise it just feels like solo'ing a raid in WoW or something. >.>

 

[Virgilthepagan]

Ok, as someone who's never played any of the Monster Hunters, I'd like to take a moment to defend their sharpness rule. I know that sounds absurd but if they're trying for realism it makes sense. I fenced for years and weapons break over time. It's a fact of life, depending on how much care you put into the weapon, and depending on the type of steel it could do anything from shatter in your hands to work flawlessly for years. Kitchen knives are also like this, and those of you who cook know that fact well. What is the whetstone bit but a sped up version of this degradation? I actually like the idea and think it's pretty realistic.

On the note of this and other Yahtzee reviews though, if I had a gripe, it's that they're less...entertaining. For whatever the reason they seem almost formulaic, and that applies to more than just this.

Thought I'd just throw my two cents into the treasury's worth of arguing here.

 

[GrimHeaper]

Ok, as someone who's never played any of the Monster Hunters, I'd like to take a moment to defend their sharpness rule. I know that sounds absurd but if they're trying for realism it makes sense. I fenced for years and weapons break over time. It's a fact of life, depending on how much care you put into the weapon, and depending on the type of steel it could do anything from shatter in your hands to work flawlessly for years. Kitchen knives are also like this, and those of you who cook know that fact well. What is the whetstone bit but a sped up version of this degradation? I actually like the idea and think it's pretty realistic.

On the note of this and other Yahtzee reviews though, if I had a gripe, it's that they're less...entertaining. For whatever the reason they seem almost formulaic, and that applies to more than just this.

Thought I'd just throw my two cents into the treasury's worth of arguing here.

Review a game you don't like
Draw crappy art for it.
?????????
Profit!

 

[t_rexaur]

Hey guys.

I'm in this topic...

pointing out that Modern Warfare 2 Multiplayer starts slow, but totally gets better once you played enough to get all the weapons and upgrades and shizzle.

Just saying yo!

 

[jamescorck]

Well, that's all said right there Yhatzee.
I wasn't sure about getting this game, not even after your video review was I sure, but after knowing more about it I defenitely lie it down and never buy it. Sin & Punishment 2 and Mario Galaxy 2 grasp my attention for Wii games more than Monster Hunter Tri.

 

[GrimHeaper]

Well, that's all said right there Yhatzee.
I wasn't sure about getting this game, not even after your video review was I sure, but after knowing more about it I defenitely lie it down and never buy it. Sin & Punishment 2 and Mario Galaxy 2 grasp my attention for Wii games more than Monster Hunter Tri.

The fans don't realize they are what really puts people off buying certain games.

 

[jamescorck]

Well, that's all said right there Yhatzee.
I wasn't sure about getting this game, not even after your video review was I sure, but after knowing more about it I defenitely lie it down and never buy it. Sin & Punishment 2 and Mario Galaxy 2 grasp my attention for Wii games more than Monster Hunter Tri.

The fans don't realize they are what really puts people off buying certain games.

And that means...what? I have a friend who's a big fan of Monster Hunter and he almost had my convinced. But after checking reviews I started to realize it wasn't my type of game, and Yhatzee just hammered the rest of the nails on the coffin before throwing it to the hole.

 

[Ryank1908]

This is the only thing I've ever disagreed with Yahtzee on.

Some of it just doesn't add up. With the 'changing weapons only at home' thing, that's because the game is based around preparation. Changing weapons in the field gets rid of the point of knowing anything about the mission. You're supposed to know what you're going up against, get the right items, and choose the right weapon. That's why.

And at no point does anyone ask you to collect 10 Giant Jaggi claws. Nor is that even a real giant monster. Disappointed, Yahtzee. The only excuse that washed for me was that he doesn't have the time for it, but in that case, he shouldn't even be reviewing games that require a timesink.

 

[GrimHeaper]

Well, that's all said right there Yhatzee.
I wasn't sure about getting this game, not even after your video review was I sure, but after knowing more about it I defenitely lie it down and never buy it. Sin & Punishment 2 and Mario Galaxy 2 grasp my attention for Wii games more than Monster Hunter Tri.

The fans don't realize they are what really puts people off buying certain games.

And that means...what? I have a friend who's a big fan of Monster Hunter and he almost had my convinced. But after checking reviews I started to realize it wasn't my type of game, and Yhatzee just hammered the rest of the nails on the coffin before throwing it to the hole.

And that is exactly why.
You knew a friend that wanted you to play it(a fan), but instead of playing it right away you did what most people would do before they waste money on a game,research.
You found out everything that person was saying wasn't really completely true and they left out all of the bad parts.

 

[cabutler03]

I agree, mostly. There are some games that you do need to spend a few hours on in order to get to the good parts, but there was to be a limit. For me, that limit is two hours (give or take). If it gets good after that, then it's all good, but if I have to go through 10 or 20 hours to get to the good stuff, then obviously the developer is doing something very, very wrong and needs to correct it or stop doing that crap that makes them do the thing that the're doing wrong.

 

[jamescorck]

Well, that's all said right there Yhatzee.
I wasn't sure about getting this game, not even after your video review was I sure, but after knowing more about it I defenitely lie it down and never buy it. Sin & Punishment 2 and Mario Galaxy 2 grasp my attention for Wii games more than Monster Hunter Tri.

The fans don't realize they are what really puts people off buying certain games.

And that means...what? I have a friend who's a big fan of Monster Hunter and he almost had my convinced. But after checking reviews I started to realize it wasn't my type of game, and Yhatzee just hammered the rest of the nails on the coffin before throwing it to the hole.

And that is exactly why.
You knew a friend that wanted you to play it(a fan), but instead of playing it right away you did what most people would do before they waste money on a game,research.
You found out everything that person was saying wasn't really completely true and they left out all of the bad parts.

Ooooh, okay, okay. Now I know what you meant, sorry ^^; English is not my mother language, I am spanish XD sometimes I mix sentences. But I totally agree with you, fans always leave out the bad aspects of things only to drag more people into what they like. But that only happens with real rabbid and unreasonable fans, which are a very loud minority.

 

[GrimHeaper]

My friend wouldn't even play a game for 20 mins because they got bored and so did several others.

 

[Motakikurushi]

My thoughts about Monster Hunter = this article.

Ah ha! At last I have something to say that contradicts you!

I actually think a weapons degradation system could work well, depending on the feel of gameplay you're going for and how you implement it. Remember STALKER: Shadows of Chernobyl. That game had a weapon degradation system and I actually thought it fit really well with the feel of a world breaking down around you. Of course, the big difference between STALKER and this game is apparently the fact that you could fire more than ten shots of your weapon without it becoming shit. Actually, in STALKER, there was one gun that I picked up early in the game and I kept it pretty much throughout, watching it slowly degrade as the game went on and worrying that it would give out on me at a critical moment. It made me rethink how I used it, because it was such a freaking awesome weapon I didn't want to loose it. So, I'd find ways to avoid having to use it if I could and I'd make sure that every shot with it counted. That was awesome. Of course, by the end of the game, it had become next to useless, because the frame had gotten bent, causing the accuracy to go way down, but by that point, it was almost the end and I was fighting guys who had much better weapons that I had to pick up anyway in order to fight them. I actually thought that worked well.
So, weapon degradation can work if you implement it well.

Really, that's all I can make an argument for, and I'm not really arguing in favor of the game you're reviewing, so maybe that doesn't count.

The weapon degrading system that Yahtzee if referring to is the 'sharpness' system in MH series. Every melee weapon has a status called 'sharpness' and less sharpness means less dmg, and unless you do a certain amount of dmg, your weapon is going to 'bounce' (yes like you're holding a bamboo stick). It is annoying as fuck, and that is why you use skills(its like abilities armor has) to either make you do more damage, or makes you sharpen your weapon, make sharpness drop faster or give you an extra bar of sharpness.

This is a fucking terrible system and it will always be a terrible system. Adding another pointless statistic to keep a beady eye on is never a good thing. I remember spending hours toiling over making a single weapon by grabbing arbitrary items the monsters would SOMETIMES give (also, love the fact that you need to exit and re-enter stages to make items respawn, because we all love doing that), and its sharpness was so horrific I never used it, and went back to using a shit but sharp weapon, simply because the better one would bounce off the next obligatory giant boss constantly. Think about it. Now you have to keep an eye on your health bar, your sharpness bar, your stamina bar, whether you're too hot or too cold (pretty much the most annoying aspect of the fucking game) and the status of any NPCs around, not to mention where the monster just leapt to, which is 100% of the time out of view of the horrible camera.
Well, the entire game is a tutorial. If you wonder around looking for the game aspect of the fucking game you'll be decimated by the odd ravenous beasty and be dumped back into the village. Being restricted from that much of the exploration constitues towards it being a tutorial, since the game is holding your hand and dictating what you can and can't do. I asked myself throughout the entire 30 hours I plugged into the fucking game "when am I going to be able to do WHAT I FUCKING WANT?!"

 

[QUINTIX]

I did a whole lot less sampling of this thread than Yahtzee did of this game, but it seems to be that you fanbois don't realize that "going against monsters larger than I" is still part of what Yahtzee appropriately calls the "tutorial."

Also, having large enemies with large erections for health meters =/= fun gameplay for most people.

 

[thegreatsage]

Yahtzee = Noob

Seriously it took me 2 hours to get to the great jaggi. I killed it with a greatsword, actually second greatsword in the bone series (Slowest weapon in the game).

If you're *really* that worried about a monster murdering you whilst you're trying to re-sharpen your sword, then you ZONE because that's what they are there for.

It's called 'skill' Yahtzee. Thank fuck you don't go online because you sound like the noob that would not only be the guy that dies three times trying to kill Rathian .... but then scream in our ear over wiispeak complaining about things like 'how it's too tough' ... and 'how hard it is to use the weapons'.

Given you can only have 4 players per room because EU/US servers are free you would have probably been shouted out of most cities after said hunt.

If you're complaining that the game is hard, that it requires good timing to get a hit on the enemy, and that there are loads of them ..... well you're a NOOB.

Would you run Galaga through the mud for the same problems? Monster Hunter Tri = perfection of gameplaying ability through repetition and reinterpretation of challenges. Like how OLD games used to be before it became all about 'the spectacle' as you say in FFXIII.

I don't blame you if you have become like the mountain of pre-pubescent noobs out there that can't remember how good gaming was before shaders and lighting effects were given as much time to perfect as gameplay in a game....

I don't even blame you when you overlook that the things you're discussing lie in the general realm of 'talent'.

I don't even blame you about the fallacious argument that it takes 10 hours to get up to your first big monster.

But when you start criticising the things that made Old games better than the pile of modern detritus to entertain us (you know, things requiring good reflex times, being challenging, and perfection of skill through differing circumstances) then you're just being a NOOB.

Seriously Yahtzee, don't hate on a game because your total gaming skill is tantamount to pushing green, red, blue and yellow buttons when a game tells you to.

Anyone who criticises Yahtzee on this site, even in the slightest, is destined to early death from high BP induced by the spam.

Although, you've probably been here longer than me, judging from the post count, so you already knew that.

OT: I don't like or play MMO's in general and am therefore not going to post my opinion.

Yes, I came down to Pg 16 just to read flames.

 

[krgskks]

This is a fucking terrible system and it will always be a terrible system. Adding another pointless statistic to keep a beady eye on is never a good thing. I remember spending hours toiling over making a single weapon by grabbing arbitrary items the monsters would SOMETIMES give (also, love the fact that you need to exit and re-enter stages to make items respawn, because we all love doing that), and its sharpness was so horrific I never used it, and went back to using a shit but sharp weapon, simply because the better one would bounce off the next obligatory giant boss constantly. Think about it. Now you have to keep an eye on your health bar, your sharpness bar, your stamina bar, whether you're too hot or too cold (pretty much the most annoying aspect of the fucking game) and the status of any NPCs around, not to mention where the monster just leapt to, which is 100% of the time out of view of the horrible camera.
Well, the entire game is a tutorial. If you wonder around looking for the game aspect of the fucking game you'll be decimated by the odd ravenous beasty and be dumped back into the village. Being restricted from that much of the exploration constitues towards it being a tutorial, since the game is holding your hand and dictating what you can and can't do. I asked myself throughout the entire 30 hours I plugged into the fucking game "when am I going to be able to do WHAT I FUCKING WANT?!"

This is a good post. It demonstrates why I think Yahtzee did a pretty shitty job. There is so much you can complain about and it would be funny. All Yahtzee did was blabber about uninteresting and unfunny stuff. If you laughed at his video then you have the IQ of some wet bread. It's amazing how he could miss the camera controls when he complains in almost every video about that.

Apart from that, it sounds like you just sucked at the game. Nothing wrong with that, but being a newcomer to the series I had no problems whatsoever. I guess games got too dumbed down over the years.


In general I can say that if you think MH Tri sucks, fine. I can see that point of view. But if you think Yahtzee did a good job at making a funny video about it or defending himself in this article, then you are a troll, massive fanboy who wants to get it on with him or totally braindead. Maybe all of the above. Just as unfunny as his Dead to Rights Retribution video or AvP.

 

[Hiroshi Mishima]

You know what I found really amusing beyond all the people rushing to defend one side or the other in this thread? How a lot of people who seem to dislike Yahtzee have avatars FROM HIS VIDEOS.

I played Monster Hunter 1 a lot and I suppose I liked it to some degree. But after a while it started to feel really... I think the term I'm looking for is repetitive, or maybe just full of "guide dang it" moments to borrow from TVTropes. My cousin seems to really like the Monster Hunter series and there's nothing wrong with that. I can totally see the appeal, but I can also understand a gaping flaw within the game's presentation.

To whit: This isn't Shadows of the Colossus with Dragons and other people. Sadly, that's what it would SEEM like when you look at some of the gameplay vids or the pics or even the box itself.

From a single player standpoint, it's supposed to be you VS a lot of monsters of various degrees in a large landscape where you can explore and find stuff. That's a very cool concept and one I could get behind no problem. However, that isn't really all there is to it. There's an underlying layer of micromanagement that really isn't necessary. The Weapon Degradation System has potential but fails when you have to stop and resharpen your weapon repeatedly during a fight with a larger monster. Likewise, not being able to bring a couple weapons with you (as opposed to a single weapon) means that you had either better bring the best tool for the job (which means knowing beforehand what you're doing hence the "guide dang it" moments), or you had better be good at running away and finding places to hide during the fights.

Personally, I thought Monster Hunter was a fun game but with a lot of flaws. I totally agree with Yahtzee, but I can understand why people still like the games. It has nothing to do with "sucking" at games, so much as it has to do with the game simply not appealing to you. If after an X amount of time it feels repetitive or you find yourself feeling bored, it's probably not the game for you.

I honestly had hoped when I first played Monster Hunter, that it'd feel more like Shadows of the Colossus. It's a damn shame the guy who made that said he'd never make another one like it, too. Because that's silly.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Yeah, I think a lot of the MH players here are just butthurt at the review and can't agree to disagree with it. Internet is serious business after all, right? I'd rather post corrections and answers instead of flaming Yahtzee and others and giving the game's fans a bad name. I still highly recommend renting the game if anything I've said in my posts sounds interesting to you. The fans will be the first to tell you, though, that it's not a game for everyone.

Pretty much that. Monster Hunter is definitely not a game for everyone. I don't say that to sound pretentious (it kicked my ass regularly), but because it's true.

My only gripe with Yahtzee's review is that it will be taken as Word of God by the majority, when his argument is flawed at best.

That's "Disagreeing". By the definition of the word. There's no 'butthurt fanboy rage'.

I agree with some of his major gripes (grind grind grind = bad) but his major complaint about the game taking 10 hours to do the tutorial "good"? He's either basing this "fact" on some idiot who only claimed to have played the game at all or he's flat out lying.

Take what Mr. Croshaw says and criticize it yourselves, as one should do with any critic. In this case, Yahtzee's review is tainted by a high degree of personal bias. I never expected him to like the game at all, but that's no reason to blatantly make shit up and present it as objective evidence.

 

[Celtic_Kerr]

Yahtzee = Noob

Seriously it took me 2 hours to get to the great jaggi. I killed it with a greatsword, actually second greatsword in the bone series (Slowest weapon in the game).

If you're *really* that worried about a monster murdering you whilst you're trying to re-sharpen your sword, then you ZONE because that's what they are there for.

It's called 'skill' Yahtzee. Thank fuck you don't go online because you sound like the noob that would not only be the guy that dies three times trying to kill Rathian .... but then scream in our ear over wiispeak complaining about things like 'how it's too tough' ... and 'how hard it is to use the weapons'.

Given you can only have 4 players per room because EU/US servers are free you would have probably been shouted out of most cities after said hunt.

If you're complaining that the game is hard, that it requires good timing to get a hit on the enemy, and that there are loads of them ..... well you're a NOOB.

Would you run Galaga through the mud for the same problems? Monster Hunter Tri = perfection of gameplaying ability through repetition and reinterpretation of challenges. Like how OLD games used to be before it became all about 'the spectacle' as you say in FFXIII.

I don't blame you if you have become like the mountain of pre-pubescent noobs out there that can't remember how good gaming was before shaders and lighting effects were given as much time to perfect as gameplay in a game....

I don't even blame you when you overlook that the things you're discussing lie in the general realm of 'talent'.

I don't even blame you about the fallacious argument that it takes 10 hours to get up to your first big monster.

But when you start criticising the things that made Old games better than the pile of modern detritus to entertain us (you know, things requiring good reflex times, being challenging, and perfection of skill through differing circumstances) then you're just being a NOOB.

Seriously Yahtzee, don't hate on a game because your total gaming skill is tantamount to pushing green, red, blue and yellow buttons when a game tells you to.

Anyone who criticises Yahtzee on this site, even in the slightest, is destined to early death from high BP induced by the spam.

Although, you've probably been here longer than me, judging from the post count, so you already knew that.

OT: I don't like or play MMO's in general and am therefore not going to post my opinion.

Yes, I came down to Pg 16 just to read flames.

I don't think it's the fact that he's criticizing Yahtzee. I mean... Yahtzee's just a man. He reviews games, big shit. But the fact that he basically called Yahtzee an imbecillic child with the capacity to only play Simon. I think it says more of Paul than it does of Yahtzee.

Okay, not to defend, but to inform: Yahtzee is a game reviewer known for casting a crtical eye on videogames. Yes, he bashes them. I think it's in the batman review that he says "I actually quite liked this game, but I'm not known for telling you what's good abotu a game now am I?" (I might not be 100% acruate, but it's the basic message).

Now obviously people exagerate... Alot. It happens... If I feel it's taking a screen a long time to load (30 seconds is ususally a very long loading screen nowadays), I'll say it took forever to load, not 30 seconds. So yes, he said it takes forever to swing a swrod, but remember what he often says is one of the most practical parts to a game: Balance between difficulty and Enjoyment.

Same thing for Demon's souls: Not a perticularly hard game... First time I played I laughed at yahtzee... and then I died by a fluke hit. And again, and again and fucking on and on and on... A minor miscalculation basically bent you over the knee and rammed a massive dildo up your ass for dirty tricks. I had an enemy fire and arrow THROUGH a wall that killed me (I was around the corner and down the hall. and I only knew the enemy was there because I was running from it to heal.) Next thing I know, and arrow comes out of the wall and the camera focuses on an enemy coming around the bend.

If a game is too difficult: people don't want to play it.
If it's too easy: same thing.
If it's no fun: You guessed it.

Yes, there are people out there who have learnt to time your hits well, but not everyone will have that amount of skill/patience, and there is really no difficulty slider to help with that. The game must be adaptable to the player, not just the player adapting to the game.

 

[theophanis]

I agree, mostly. There are some games that you do need to spend a few hours on in order to get to the good parts, but there was to be a limit. For me, that limit is two hours (give or take). If it gets good after that, then it's all good, but if I have to go through 10 or 20 hours to get to the good stuff, then obviously the developer is doing something very, very wrong and needs to correct it or stop doing that crap that makes them do the thing that the're doing wrong.

Totally agreed. However, if a reviewer is pulling numbers out of thin air, then obviously the reviewer is doing something very, very wrong and needs to correct it or stop doing that crap that makes them do the thing that they're doing wrong. I have yet to see anyone say that the early quests take 10 hours to complete (apparently someone emailed him with that number? Or maybe he's just exaggerating for so-called comedic effect again? It is a mystery). This game's "tutorial" section (and it's not even a tutorial section as I explained earlier [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/6.198721.6497552]) usually takes an hour - two at most if you take your time. Anyone who took 10 hours is free-roaming or repeating quests far too much for that early stage and is thus doing it wrong. The game even flat-out tells you to do quests to advance. Why does everyone keep returning to that point when it's been answered already, numerous times?

As an aside - there is no overworld. What he was referring to is an optional and free-roaming area which you can enter at any time without restrictions to gather resources and fight monsters. It's only useful as a way to get cash, and as an optional aid to the online mode. It is not how you travel to other towns, where you exchange party members or where you ride Chocobos.

@krgskks: I totally agree. MH3 isn't for everyone and many of the complaints about the game are legitimate. It would have been actually entertaining if the ZP review had some legitimate complaints in it. The "you got served" factor of his Extra Punctuation was minimal too. Where oh where has our favourite game comic's wittiness and astute critical eye gone? Replaced by including more irrelevant asides and juvenile genital jokes to make up for time I see. But really it's no big deal, this was never going to be a game our reviewer-comic liked anyway.

He already said it from the beginning: it's a Wii game! Despicable! It's got laughable box art! Pathetic! The introductory video shall get more review airtime than the combat! Disgusting! Oh, let's talk about Harvest Moon while we're thinking of things to say! Inconceivable! And as various and conflicting ZP supporters have mentioned, no one takes these reviews seriously and no one is dumb enough to make their purchase decisions based upon Yahtzee's opinions, which clearly don't matter if even the ZP fans don't listen to them. These reviews are pure entertainment and have no noteworthy content at all apart from the crude jokes about sex, MMORPGs, casual gamers and Japan which are comedy gold and not getting tired and old at all. /sarcasm

Yeah, that took it a bit far and I really don't care as much as that last paragraph makes out. It's just an abrasive exaggeration of a few of my gripes about the review I watched, just like ZP is an abrasive exaggeration of a few of Yahtzee's gripes about the game he played. I don't really feel that way and I've enjoyed a fair number of his ZP reviews. It's really all love and peace here. I like my games; you like your games; human race continues to function as normal.

(Depends on what you call normal though, don't you think? )