Morrowind 2011 Mod Collection Pulled After Complaints

[DaggerOfCompassion]

http://morrowind2011.ultimaaiera.com/
It's back up!!

Thanks to Shardok for the link.

 

[yundex]

What. The. Fuck?

What the hell happened here? Was someone making money from this?

That's what I was thinking as I read this. Aren't mods, y'know, free? It's not like the guy was saying that he did all the work *personally*.

Being free doesn't give anyone right to rip it off.
For example, I might give away free postcards of my paintings at my art gallery. As a method for attracting guests to come see my paintings in full. That doesn't give anyone the right to produce enlarged version of those cards and display them on the street, even if they give me credit.

and yet when people use sane arguments like you did agaisnt piracy they get shot down with well it didnt hurt anyone. lets see the pro piracy peoples opinion on this, probly screw the modders they evil anyways.

Personally if the modders dont want their stuff in the compilations, dont put it in.

My pro piracy argument is basically: it's free and i'm not taking credit for another persons work. Than again, my spiritual path lead me far from what is considered the norm here, so what another person claims I do or do not have a right to do means nothing to me. I decide whatever I have a right to do, and accept the consequences.

Basically, yeah screw em, lol.

your basic argument is screw the video game industry they can burn, also welcome to reported ville population you.

Its people like this why I consider all gamers the largest group of anti video game advocates out there.

I don't know what downloading a free mod pack has to do with the gaming industry burning. Thanks for the report, I guess.

 

[cybran]

I'd take the second part a little further and more cynically, and suggest, "What he did wasn't illegal because it didn't affect me, and only benefited me, and how dare someone who was wronged make life the slightest bit inconvenient for me, no matter the ethics involved." ...that may have been too cynical of me, however.

I wasn't trying to be sensical, I was trying to save everyone the trouble of creating another ten pages of the same posts.

Personally, I side a little more with the second group. There's very little functional difference between this and just providing links to all of the files that were combined in the pack along with the instructions and I don't think that ANYONE would have grounds to complain if he had done that despite the fact that the end result would be indentical to the result of just providing the pack. Moreover, as many have already mentioned, it's not an issue of credit, they just don't want it in the pack at all. While that's not technically the same as saying "you're not allowed to link to the download for my mod without permission", it's functionally pretty similar, which is why this seems so silly to me. To me at least, the creators complaining are mostly just being indignant because it makes them and their work seem more important (which is nothing new in mod distribution arguments).

To be fair, I think he probably should have asked permission first, but even having ignored that step, I think the complaints remain pretty silly.

The fact is, there are a lot of guides like this already out there. So there's a very shitty element of this where he wasn't doing anything new or creative, just taking credit, and alerting the media.

I didn't know that he personally alerted the media. That's shitty behavior, though still not nearly to the extent he's being yelled at for. Nowhere am I intending to suggest that he didn't act like a dick (or, more likely given what I've seen, just fairly naive and a little dumb), I just think the retribution and the discussion has been completely out of proportion and that the original complaints were more about the mod creators getting to complain and lord power over someone else than about any substantive complaint they had.

And the guide did mention that there were a lot of other guides and that he was just trying to simplify the process, which, having installed the thing before it was taken down, he definitely did.

No he did not "alert the media." He posted it on Reddit, and the video on youtube, and it went from there. The media alerted the people about it. Stop spreading misinformation. (Not speaking to you personally, I'm just clarifying something).

Also, the name is mod COMPENDIUM. Which means collection of mods! So right away you should see that he didn't in fact make the whole thing, he just put it all together. If you bothered to read his original guide, he even said so in the closing lines of the guide.

There's no denying that the Elder Scrolls modding community is filled with egotistical douchebags. This coming from someone who has been with this community for years before getting tired of all the disgusting drama.

There was an incident at some point with a modder known as Alien Slof. Yeah, it was just a huge bout of drama. The simple fact that this kind of drama even occurs in a modding community disgusts me to no end. They don't have much to be proud of either, since the Bethesda modding community could pretty much be summarized as follows: Giant Penis Gatling Gun.

You sir, said it all x)

The modders should really just be happy people are enjoying their mods, and that their mods made it so far to become part of the compendium that gained the sensational graphical upgrade. Now that this has to be pulled because of their ego, noone is going to have fun with that, or the mods they made themselves.

Good going you ego pricks. seriously, you guys are scum.

 

[The3rdEye]

Furthermore, mods aren't "free". It takes time to make them, time that could otherwise be spent doing well, anything else.

In this context, free is precisely what these mods are. Free of charge all the way.

The amount of work put in their creation does not change the range of economical values available for the end product.

True, there's not much point in debating if the mods are "free" since all copyrights are held by Bethesda, so anything that's not covered in their EULA/copyright agreements is pretty much fair game.

Still though, I can't help but draw comparison between this and the original crapstorm that surrounded Ebaums World and their initial procurement of content. This may not be as severe a case, but my earlier statement regarding "It should have been common sense to ask first" still stands, regardless of whether the software is free or not.

 

[Ericb]

This may not be as severe a case, but my earlier statement regarding "It should have been common sense to ask first" still stands, regardless of whether the software is free or not.

It's just that many people seem to be confusing the issues on account of this mistake of social conduct coming from the person who distributed those mods.

But I do agree on this, it would have been very polite to ask them first.

 

[Del-Toro]

They can sue him? But, they just took someone else's sourcecode and worked with it. They don't actually own a copyright of it. Think about it. If they can sue him, or if they proceed to do so, I would encourage Bethesda to just go fucking nuts suing them. If for no other reason than to remind them that they made their 'snicker' names modding Bethesda's game.

 

[Retardinator]

The least all those modders could do now is provide decent instructions. I just broke my installation of Oblivion and since I didn't get to download M2011 on time I get the feeling my Morrowind installation is about to be broken too.

 

[Scars Unseen]

But, they just took someone else's sourcecode and worked with it.

God, the ignorance on these forums is boundless. Go open up Morrowind's editor. After doing so, please provide me with instructions on how to create new textures, models and sounds in that editor. Wait. You can't. Sorry, must have slipped my mind.

No matter what claim Bethesda can make to the scripts and dialogue made with the editor, any sort of modification that alters the way that Morrowind looks or sounds is going to involve (occasionally extensive) work with external tools. Bethesda does not and cannot claim ownership of those. So can a modder take legal action for non-authourized use of the assets in these mods? Yes (depending on the country, naturally). Should they? Well that's pretty much what this whole debate is about, minus the ignorance.

Oh, and for the people claiming that no action can be taken unless the works are registered with the US Copyright office... well you're half right. The Berne Convention grants automatic copyright whether the author requests or even wants it. In the US, you do have to register the copyright in order to take most legal actions, but this can be done after the fact. So if they really wanted to (and live in a country that signed the Berne Convention) then they could.

As someone else mentioned, this whole debate is largely made pointless by the fact that there is already another group of modders that is making their own compilation the proper way (i.e. they got the modders' permissions beforehand). I believe the beta release of the graphical update is available, with another compilation affecting gameplay to come. You can read about and get it here. [http://forums.bethsoft.com/index.php?/topic/1156204-betawipz-morrowind-overhaul-sounds-graphics/]

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Also - some, let's say, uneducated people here were stating mods are not art. Right. Because designing, creating new or improving old 3d models, painting textures, writing dialogues and scenari - not art. Nope. So you're one of those real grown-ups eh ? Feeling a bit alone now that Mr Ebert wisened up ?

Some mods are certainly works that fall under the umbrella of artistic endeavor. But plenty of the mods included were comprised of nothing more than coding and outright programming. There have been times that I have written what I consider to be beautifully clever code but never once have I looked at anything I've written and thought of it as art. Programming is no more art than the assembly of gears and springs in a watch is art. It can be clever and well designed but in the end code of any sort is simply a problem of passing around data and performing various math operations on said data.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Furthermore, mods aren't "free". It takes time to make them, time that could otherwise be spent doing well, anything else.

In this context, free is precisely what these mods are. Free of charge all the way.

The amount of work put in their creation does not change the range of economical values available for the end product.

True, there's not much point in debating if the mods are "free" since all copyrights are held by Bethesda, so anything that's not covered in their EULA/copyright agreements is pretty much fair game.

Still though, I can't help but draw comparison between this and the original crapstorm that surrounded Ebaums World and their initial procurement of content. This may not be as severe a case, but my earlier statement regarding "It should have been common sense to ask first" still stands, regardless of whether the software is free or not.

The problem with Ebaum's world was not simply that he was using content but that he was using content and gave no credit to the original authors. He was, essentially, stealing credit for their work.

This is what I don't understand about this debate. Yes, courtesy demands that he ask permission before assembling a compilation but the only thing of even theoretical worth at risk here was credit for the work which was given.

You can wrinkle your nose at the faux pas of failing to ask permission but anything beyond that is a severe overreaction.

 

[yundex]

What. The. Fuck?

What the hell happened here? Was someone making money from this?

That's what I was thinking as I read this. Aren't mods, y'know, free? It's not like the guy was saying that he did all the work *personally*.

Being free doesn't give anyone right to rip it off.
For example, I might give away free postcards of my paintings at my art gallery. As a method for attracting guests to come see my paintings in full. That doesn't give anyone the right to produce enlarged version of those cards and display them on the street, even if they give me credit.

and yet when people use sane arguments like you did agaisnt piracy they get shot down with well it didnt hurt anyone. lets see the pro piracy peoples opinion on this, probly screw the modders they evil anyways.

Personally if the modders dont want their stuff in the compilations, dont put it in.

My pro piracy argument is basically: it's free and i'm not taking credit for another persons work. Than again, my spiritual path lead me far from what is considered the norm here, so what another person claims I do or do not have a right to do means nothing to me. I decide whatever I have a right to do, and accept the consequences.

Basically, yeah screw em, lol.

your basic argument is screw the video game industry they can burn, also welcome to reported ville population you.

Its people like this why I consider all gamers the largest group of anti video game advocates out there.

I don't know what downloading a free mod pack has to do with the gaming industry burning. Thanks for the report, I guess.

downloading mod packs isnt piracy

Game industry burning, anti video game advocates...I don't know what this has to do with the mods. You do realize I was talking about the mods in my posts? The "my pro piracy" opening was a jab at your last bit, not downloading games. (my real one would be quite long though)

 

[Magicman10893]

So, because some douchebags got together to yell at some douchebag over the internet about said douchebag using their mods that they made *free* over the internet and bundling them together in an easy to use package that he isn't making money from and gave credit where credit is due is the reason I'll have to sit here for hours finding a shit load of different mods that will mostly likely clash with one another and cause no end of frustration because I am as mod literate as the offspring of three generations of cousin fucking is regularly literate?

In other words, a collection of "Greatest Hits" mods that have been released for free is being... released for free with a list of credits to show who did the real work? Why is that offensive and illegal again? It's not like the modders are getting paid for the mods and it's not like this guy is getting paid for packaging them together, or did I miss something? I really don't know what they are getting worked up about, most mods I see for any game often include in the description either, "Don't repost this mod on a pay site," or, "Make sure to give credit to me if you repost this on any other site."

 

[kypsilon]

This wouldn't be a problem if Bethesda wasn't so damned concerned about making their newer games less fun than the ones before it.

 

[Nocturnus]

It is not copyright infringement, as the modders do not own any copyright or patent on the modifications that they made. There is no legal action that can be taken place as, once again, there is no copyright to this material. The patent still is owned by Bethesda. This only changes if someone goes in and completely and totally redoes the entirety of the game from start to finish. New Code. No traces of the original framework left behind. No modder ever does that. This is why it's called -a mod-.

Threatening legal action is asinine. There is no court that would take this case up for longer than five minutes. It all falls down to whether or whether not he acted according to social standards and social norms, which are not enforced in this sense legally. So long as credit is given where credit is due, this screams like a bunch of butt-hurt individuals who have too much pride when it comes to work like this.

I would hope for permission asked as well if I was a modder. It takes a basement dwelling lunatic to believe that they legally own what they built with either an outside tool to modify an existing game structure (which doesn't belong to them), or the construction set.

This mod should have been allowed to go live, and he should have been allowed to fix things as they came up. Instead, people act childish.

Good for you. You not only got one mod taken down, you had the integrity of your own work shot to hell by acting like a bunch of five year old kids.

*Grumbles*

 

[Optimystic]

Oh noes, free publicity! Kill it with fire!

I don't get what the authors big deal was. Were the mods unfinished? I guarantee that 90% of people who wanted the compilation didn't care if the mods included were version 1.01a or 1.01b or whatever; they just wanted a Morrowind that didn't look like decade-old ass.

EDIT: And why IP ban him from the forums? Are they determined not to let anyone talk this out?

 

[Canid117]

words

You realize they own nothing? They're taking another companies work and changing it. Threatening legal action over something they don't even own. Hence why you can't charge money.

It's a creative work, thus covered under copy-right. Besides, the legal ramifications aren't and shouldn't be the issue here - more that you're promoting the use of others work without their permission.

Wrong buddy. Creative works are not automatically protected under copy right. All creative works belong to the public domain by default unless they are copyrighted. It is possible that these mods may have fallen under the original games copy right but that is owned by Bethesda which is not one of the offended parties. Unless the modders who are angry contact Bethesda and somehow get them on their side I do not see any legal legs for them to stand on. From my impression he never claimed he made it, he always made it clear that it was a compilation and he gave credits. Yes he should have asked for permission but those who feel they have been wronged should not be threatening DMCA. It would be nice if they could come to a compromise but sadly it doesn't look like that is going to happen.

 

[Baneat]

Wow little bitches. You release mods so people can enjoy them, craving appraisal is just sad. Yes, sad. It shouldn't be your end goal, and an excellent compilation of tools has suffered for it.

 

[D_987]

Wrong buddy.

Actually I think you'll find you're wrong on this front. There're more than enough posts explaining why on this thread for me to bother to explain...again...

See post 390 for example.