^What she said. Say what you will about Hitler, but that little book was at the core of what he did and millions of other deaths throughout history.Saelune said:Whoever made the Bible. That book got alot of people killed.
^What she said. Say what you will about Hitler, but that little book was at the core of what he did and millions of other deaths throughout history.Saelune said:Whoever made the Bible. That book got alot of people killed.
That would be dozens and dozens if not hundreds of different people, not a single guy.Saelune said:Whoever made the Bible. That book got alot of people killed.
I'll tell you what I told her.Sylveria said:^What she said. Say what you will about Hitler, but that little book was at the core of what he did and millions of other deaths throughout history.Saelune said:Whoever made the Bible. That book got alot of people killed.
Yes the bourgeois "provide" the means of production through ownership of it, but this is completely unnecessary if the workers themselves own the means of production so the workers can reap the full benefits of their labors rather than what small compensation the factory owner provides. As for socialism being the middle stage didn't Marx actually put communism as the road to a perfect socialist society? Also Lenin's NEP actually rendered the country more like modern socialism such as in countries like Finland, where there is private property and limited private business but all essential things are still provided by the state. It seems odd to me that you seem to take Lenin's achievement of destroying feudalism in Russia so lightly but that's a different topic.Brett Dumain said:While communism does fall apart because it fails to account for human greed, it also fails because of the second phase of the transition from capitalism to communism. SOcialism, or the "middle stage", is actually what Soviet Russia had turned to directly after Lenin's death. Lenin's New Economic Plan (NEP), which allowed for a certain level of privatization amongst the peasantry, was swiftly dismantled after his death because, at one level, it was too much like the capitalist society Lenin had overthrown (though he actually only succeeded in wresting Russia out of feudalism).RandomNameRandom said:Well it appears that most likely you don't understand what happened in the Soviet Union because when the state was under a dictatorship of the proletariat situation was when Lenin had most influence in the newly liberated country, further more if the dictatorship of the proletariat is a transitional phrase, why is it that you never care to mention what the next phase entails, rather you decide to go off on a rant about Marx being a greedy monster that has no basis in really anything that we modern people know of the man. Furthermore you refer to the bourgeois as "producers" when in fact they were never the people who created anything are just people who tell others to work and reap the benefits. If everyone works for the good of the society this class is completely unnecessary, and this sadly is where Marxism falls apart, the problem with pure communism is that human beings are inherently greedy even the most selfless person in the world could succumb to their own petty desires and why the system fails, not because its designed to help jealous greedy people because its designed with the assumption that people can put their greediness aside for the good of the community.
The bourgeoisie might not be perceived as producers, but that is in fact what they are. They provide the means of production through which the laborers can then turn their labor into capital. For this they are compensated, though at a rate which Marx felt was unfair i comparison to their contribution (hence his formula of "from each....to each...).
Probably not as many as communism.Saelune said:Whoever made the Bible. That book got alot of people killed.
Ugh if you're wanting to start a thread about communism please refer to the one that already exists.Travis Higuet said:Probably not as many as communism.Saelune said:Whoever made the Bible. That book got alot of people killed.
Yay communism!Black Arrow Officer said:Pol Pot. He killed 2,000,000 people of his country. That isn't as much as Hitler, Stalin or Mao, but keep in mind that was 20% OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.
Actually the first post Stalin premier, Khrushchev, rather quickly testified against Stalin's crimes and started a campaign of de-stalinization of course this doesn't really make the Soviet Union any better a place but its good to be more accurate in your points. But, yes Stalin and his policies were absolutely horrible things that should have never existed.JWAN said:I would have to say stalin. He killed WAY more people than hitler and he did it over is entire reign then the next guy continued his policies and so on and so fourth until the fall of the Berlin wall.
The gulags made concentration camp look like summer camp.
Argh, once again these people never followed true communist ideals, and Pol Pot was literally insane he didn't understand that what he did was wrong, he believed he was doing the right thing to his dying breath.JWAN said:Yay communism!Black Arrow Officer said:Pol Pot. He killed 2,000,000 people of his country. That isn't as much as Hitler, Stalin or Mao, but keep in mind that was 20% OF THE ENTIRE COUNTRY.