Movie Defense Force: Alien 3
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
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good points well made jim, i re watch alien 3 when the blu rays came out and i liked it alot more then i rememberd. i agree with alot of your point but i feel writting hicks and neut out was lazy and did not move the plot forward, i felt it regressed it. it brought riply back to were she was in the beginning of aliens, neuts death is never brought back up (as far as i can remember) after the cutting open scene and she is put back to square one. it seemed they did it not because it was risky but because they wonted to use the same formula as aliens, women alone with ruffnecks.
I wanted to come back in and mention the horrible plot holes and technical wrongs that destroy immersion in Alien 3 -- and I find that Jeyl already mentioned many of them. It simply doesn't work as a sequel to Aliens. The more you remember about Aliens, the worse Alien 3 runs, until you have an urge to stop the movie and make sure you saw what you just saw. I don't know what you call the opposite of immersion, but that's it.
There's still meat on the bone, though, when it comes to plot hole. Let's not forget that Alien 3 is the first movie of the franchise to committ the Great Sin of Xenomorph Portrayal, one repeated in all video games and subsequent films to come:
Xenomorphs that pointlessly kill.
Instead of capture and impregnation/conversion -- the point of the "rape monster" motif -- Alien 3 and its worthless spawn present xenomorphs that just bite you for no good reason. The entire point is missed. Contrary to Jim's claim that Alien 3 expanded the biological depth of the xenomorphs, the movie instead narrowed it, unmooring the creature from its base concept and making it an utterly generic boogeyman, a tedious, screeching pit bull with a penchant for crawling. This is one of the reasons the Aliens video games have been so terrible (only one of the reasons. . .). The Jaguar version of AvP is the only one that presents the ability to convert victims to xenomorphs (a properly-executed melee combo turns the victim into an egg which is then used as an extra life for the PC: not terribly elegant, but it gets the theme across). Even the superior, original AvP for the PC doesn't feature this concept. AvP 2 gave us "lifecycle" mode, where xenomorph players start as eggs, move around as nymphs (facehuggers) and have to find a victim to infect. . . during a deathmatch. It's gimmicky and cumbersome and unbalnced, as you might expect. There's no concept in any of these games of the xenomorphs working together to reproduce.
And we have Alien 3 in part to thank for that.
There's still meat on the bone, though, when it comes to plot hole. Let's not forget that Alien 3 is the first movie of the franchise to committ the Great Sin of Xenomorph Portrayal, one repeated in all video games and subsequent films to come:
Xenomorphs that pointlessly kill.
Instead of capture and impregnation/conversion -- the point of the "rape monster" motif -- Alien 3 and its worthless spawn present xenomorphs that just bite you for no good reason. The entire point is missed. Contrary to Jim's claim that Alien 3 expanded the biological depth of the xenomorphs, the movie instead narrowed it, unmooring the creature from its base concept and making it an utterly generic boogeyman, a tedious, screeching pit bull with a penchant for crawling. This is one of the reasons the Aliens video games have been so terrible (only one of the reasons. . .). The Jaguar version of AvP is the only one that presents the ability to convert victims to xenomorphs (a properly-executed melee combo turns the victim into an egg which is then used as an extra life for the PC: not terribly elegant, but it gets the theme across). Even the superior, original AvP for the PC doesn't feature this concept. AvP 2 gave us "lifecycle" mode, where xenomorph players start as eggs, move around as nymphs (facehuggers) and have to find a victim to infect. . . during a deathmatch. It's gimmicky and cumbersome and unbalnced, as you might expect. There's no concept in any of these games of the xenomorphs working together to reproduce.
And we have Alien 3 in part to thank for that.
While Alien 3 was a good movie, it simply was not what anyone really wanted at the time. Coming off Aliens, we wanted more of the same really, instead we got something completely out of left field. Personally, I think it would have been better to just have made it a space prison, instead of crashing on some prison planet (mostly since it never matters in the plot), that would have at least allowed for a "out the airlock" kill scene, as is iconic to the series 
However, Alien 3 is NOT the best movie in the series. Thats a crazy stretch. Its solid for all the reasons you mentioned Jim, but the BEST?! No. Aliens is the best, Aliens will always BE the best (the new series is already bad, not much hope for it) and your personal preference for 3, doesn't make 2 a worse film.
However, Alien 3 is NOT the best movie in the series. Thats a crazy stretch. Its solid for all the reasons you mentioned Jim, but the BEST?! No. Aliens is the best, Aliens will always BE the best (the new series is already bad, not much hope for it) and your personal preference for 3, doesn't make 2 a worse film.
Alien 3 is actually pretty ok. But Alien 4 and everything after are all unrepentant turds. Taking the time to defend Alien 3 is only setting yourself up to have to defend its incredibly awful younger brother. Good luck, cause I got a brick of text to tell you why every nice thing you have to say about 4 is wrong.
Great review Jim, it's nice to see someone else share some strong points that I've also felt for this film. The thing I applaud Alien3 for most it's unique expression of atmosphere and emotion. Alien had discovery and shock, Aliens had anger and defiance. Alien3 came full circle with sorrow, and finally resolve.
Whilst Alien I regard as the best film, and one of the greatest of all time, Alien3 will always be my favourite.
Whilst Alien I regard as the best film, and one of the greatest of all time, Alien3 will always be my favourite.
You make some good points, but it lacked the spark of the first two.
And I think they could have had their cake and eaten it too in terms of not making the dramatic rescues of Aliens completely pointless, but showing that the aliens always win in the end: having one of Hicks or Newt die, and the other survive. For emotional impact (and so as not to derail the atmosphere by tossing a sassy kid into a grim prison planet) I'd suggest they off Newt. Ripley can experience loss, and it won't be such an obvious "we couldn't get the actors back" slate wipe. Hicks could die later on in the film.
All in all, however, I think that mostly people's memory of the modern Aliens films is so soured by the shitfest that was Resurrection that some of that bleeds over and taints the third installment, as well.
And I think they could have had their cake and eaten it too in terms of not making the dramatic rescues of Aliens completely pointless, but showing that the aliens always win in the end: having one of Hicks or Newt die, and the other survive. For emotional impact (and so as not to derail the atmosphere by tossing a sassy kid into a grim prison planet) I'd suggest they off Newt. Ripley can experience loss, and it won't be such an obvious "we couldn't get the actors back" slate wipe. Hicks could die later on in the film.
All in all, however, I think that mostly people's memory of the modern Aliens films is so soured by the shitfest that was Resurrection that some of that bleeds over and taints the third installment, as well.
[sub]Note: the following is written by someone who has only seen the Assembly Cut (which is reportedly far superior) and thus may not necessarily apply to the film that the majority of viewers has seen.[/sub]
Oh wow. You are right on the fucking money, Sterling. People hiss at me and pelt me with rotten fruit and vegetables and finally shun me when I tell them this is my favorite installment of the series. The film first expands and then brutally finalizes the exploration of the franchise's central themes, and even taking said themes to areas that are so far outside of Scott's* and Cameron's range that they couldn't have even dreamed of them--this is not even taking into account the additional dimensions (the religion angle, for instance).
Have my baby, Jim Sterling.
EDIT: One minor correction: To my best knowledge, there is no Director's Cut; the improved version is called the Assembly Cut because Fincher had little to no involvement and it was done by either the editor or director of photography (I forget).
[sub]* That's not a jab at Scott. Though he's immensely hit & miss (let us never again discuss the Lost crew's anti-science embarrassment that was Prometheus), he's still the man who made motherfucking Blade Runner[/sub]
Oh wow. You are right on the fucking money, Sterling. People hiss at me and pelt me with rotten fruit and vegetables and finally shun me when I tell them this is my favorite installment of the series. The film first expands and then brutally finalizes the exploration of the franchise's central themes, and even taking said themes to areas that are so far outside of Scott's* and Cameron's range that they couldn't have even dreamed of them--this is not even taking into account the additional dimensions (the religion angle, for instance).
Have my baby, Jim Sterling.
EDIT: One minor correction: To my best knowledge, there is no Director's Cut; the improved version is called the Assembly Cut because Fincher had little to no involvement and it was done by either the editor or director of photography (I forget).
[sub]* That's not a jab at Scott. Though he's immensely hit & miss (let us never again discuss the Lost crew's anti-science embarrassment that was Prometheus), he's still the man who made motherfucking Blade Runner[/sub]
great new show Jim, the only complaint I have is that I have to wait 2 weeks between episodes. yet another good addition to the escapist, hope this works in the long term.
I always like Alien 3. Although it is one you have to be in the mood for. Best of the series? No, that for me will always be Ridley Scott's classic first masterpiece. Possibly the scariest movie ever made. And with such a fully realized near future world of dirt and grime and wear and tear.
I'd like to see him do Resurrection at some point =P Not a lot of defenders of that one.
While Alien is my fav of the series (best horror movie hands down period) Alien 3 does have my favorite single line of the series. People quote Aliens left and right, but that's just cuz they're general and or funny lines that can be applied to a verity of situations, which kinda robs them of their meaning in context. But the best line of the series belongs to Alien 3 in one of Ripley's last words:
"You've been in my life so long I don't remember anything else."
Chills =^^= I mean consider how long this woman has technically been alive considering all the sleep pods she's been in, and the nightmares that must have plagued her in those dreams as generations passed. Her entire life has come and gone while she slept through it, all because of these things and in the end she has nothing else. Nothing else but them.
While Alien is my fav of the series (best horror movie hands down period) Alien 3 does have my favorite single line of the series. People quote Aliens left and right, but that's just cuz they're general and or funny lines that can be applied to a verity of situations, which kinda robs them of their meaning in context. But the best line of the series belongs to Alien 3 in one of Ripley's last words:
"You've been in my life so long I don't remember anything else."
Chills =^^= I mean consider how long this woman has technically been alive considering all the sleep pods she's been in, and the nightmares that must have plagued her in those dreams as generations passed. Her entire life has come and gone while she slept through it, all because of these things and in the end she has nothing else. Nothing else but them.