Movie Defense Force: Alien 3

[Casual Shinji]

If you can't see the themes of sexuality, rape, body horror, and above all motherhood in set of movies where the most powerful single entity in Alien (the ship itself) is called MOTHER, where the most locally dangerous antagonist in the second film is a QUEEN, and where the drive of the main opponents is REPRODUCTION, than I can only simply reiterate the WTF issued above with all the force that sane humankind can muster behind it.

Yes, I can see that. So I don't need some long lost daughter nonsense shoved in my face to emphisize what is already perfectly clear. This was not in the original cut and it was better for it.

That "Your daughter whom we've never heard of is dead" scene was as pointless as the scene where Newt's family goes out to the Derelict (What a coincedence!!!). But then both the Alien and Aliens director's cut suck.

And by the way, I fucking hated how Cameron turned the Alien into cannon fodder space bugs. That includes the queen.

 

[xPixelatedx]

Jim Sterling, I may not agree with you about this being the best of the franchise, but I do agree it is a damn fine movie; I've always liked it. The first movie had a sci-fi vibe to it, while the second had this summer-movie action-adventure thing going. The third installment was just so serious, and dark. It was like a genuine horror movie. I think it certainly deserves it's place among the others, unlike it's younger brother...

I am very excited to see what movies you do next!

 

[jehk]

Good stuff. Really interested to see what other movies you do.

 

[greyseven]

Honestly, I didn't see why Alien 3 needed a defense at all. It's a great movie and revitalizes the fear of one creature being the source of death and gore. Try to defend Star Wars Episode I,II, or III if you want a lost cause, uphill battle, or something impossible to do with your time.

 

[Kinitawowi]

A few people have said it, and add me to the list; the fundamental problem with the defence of the movie is that it's predicated on a false notion. The Alien does not always win. Show me which Alien movie has all the humans dead at the end and a Xenomorph roaring at the sky like a T-Rex out of Jurassic Park and I'll buy your argument, but until then it's bogus. Ripley survives. Ripley, Hicks, Newt and the important parts of Bishop survive. Morse survives. Ripley and Call and that bloke in the chair played by the dude who was in Amelie survive. Humans and androids 4, Xenomorphs 0. "Whoever wins, we lose"? Bull. Shit. However bad shit gets, we come through.

As for characterisation... look, the first movie was a haunted house film in space, and they're always about the horror and the monster. The second film was a Vietnam film in space, and they're always(ish) about the unit and the action. The third film is a prison film in space, and they're always about characters. Of course the characterisation was a bit better, the setting lent itself to it. (The fourth film had no idea what it was, which is why it's a bit pants.)

I think my biggest problem with 3 is that at its heart is a brilliant and interesting idea - that of taking a group of murderers and rapists and throwing in the Alien, which is basically a better* murderer and rapist - and yet it abjectly fails at any point to even address that duality. If we had some hint about how each of the prisoners became who they were, what drove them to become the rapists and murders that got them sent to Fiorina 161 rather than just "they're more manly men" - the only possible interpretation of the biologically shit double-Y chromosome idea - , then there'd have been some reference point for the comparative lack of such story about the Alien. If they'd had a prisoner be on the receiving end of a face hugger (rather than a dog or an ox, which - lame, even if I concede the Runner-type Alien and the circumstances that birthed it are an interesting addition to the mythos), it could have brought some pathos to the aggressors in the attempted rape of Ripley and the prisoners' own violent sexual pasts while reinforcing the sexual imagery that has always surrounded the Alien creature.

And so on. We got none of that. Boo and I say Hiss.

captcha: now look here

 

[GratchDDO]

I'll respond to the three points of this Defense that held no water for me just summarizing them as I remember. I might have to watch the directors cut someday... I still dislike this movie from an opening day viewing after standing in a long line... so maybe I'm a bit dank on it.

-The only developed character in a movie filled with a ton of gritty bald guys in dank clothing got killed by the Dogien just when he got interesting - that makes the dogien real because now all the people you couldn't give a s--- about might die.

-The bad movie has a lot of dank sets and other both bad and good movies will start having a lot of dank sets so therefore this is a good movie because it was the first to be dank during a decade of fewer dank sets. Dank you.

-Killing off Newt's screaming and Hudson's sturdy-soldier foil to Ripley in the start is a great way to die versus all the other ways to die and there's no more meaningful way these characters could have died to possibly give the story more meaning than a 30s prologue scene. They both meant something to Ripley so really... noone could have possibly worked them in anywhere in any sort of story to have greater impact than a prologue death. Impossible. I mean you might recognize them as some sort of separate character from the 30 bald drab prisoner set. That would really suck to have different characters in a movie. Killing the character off "nicely" might be nice for the character. Killing the character off with some impact might make a better movie. Which of those seems more important when writing a screenplay?

 

[BlackWolf100]

Well for me I haven't watched any of the alien films; I might of but not for a long while. I can see that alien 3 could be good, however. I can't really agree of the aliens win in the end, after all that effects of the last 2 films.

What if say in mass effect, the reapers have won, after hearing countless of times how they are unstoppable and then the reapers win in mass effect 3. You could have that ending and have it as a sad, bleak, tragic, depressing yet beautiful and moving ending, but you know what? I would still prefer seeing commander shepherd and the others stop them winning. It would be darn pointless and spiritless, having all the hope and positive chance just die out. what would the point be of the survival, what?s the point knowing the characters, get to like them, then they get killed off while the big threat wins, what?s the point having that sense of hopeful chance as we see nearly all characters try to find a way to shopping them. It would been a more powerful if the threat did wipe out galactic civilization (like most humans in alien 3), however It wouldn?t leave me feel good after playing/seeing to that ending.

I shouldn?t really talk much about this film as I haven't seen alien 3 for a long while, but what I?m saying is that I would watch the last 2 films, then see the third film, as I?ll watch the fear and the action but not the despair.

Well reviewed by the way Jim. Looking forward to see what other films you have to say about.

 

[keserak]

If you can't see the themes of sexuality, rape, body horror, and above all motherhood in set of movies where the most powerful single entity in Alien (the ship itself) is called MOTHER, where the most locally dangerous antagonist in the second film is a QUEEN, and where the drive of the main opponents is REPRODUCTION, than I can only simply reiterate the WTF issued above with all the force that sane humankind can muster behind it.

Yes, I can see that. So I don't need some long lost daughter nonsense shoved in my face to emphisize what is already perfectly clear. This was not in the original cut and it was better for it.

That "Your daughter whom we've never heard of is dead" scene was as pointless as the scene where Newt's family goes out to the Derelict (What a coincedence!!!). But then both the Alien and Aliens director's cut suck.

And by the way, I fucking hated how Cameron turned the Alien into cannon fodder space bugs. That includes the queen.

I don't completely agree with you, but I do agree that using Newt's family was a (very) bad idea and that showing LV-426 before the Sulaco arrived is a VERY bad idea for both pacing and impact reasons -- my God, the arrival scene still resonates with me today. Hell, the first view of the Hadley's Hope colony in Aliens vs. Predator (the original PC game) is still amazing because it evokes that same sense of dread and horrible build-up. Seeing the colony occupied and vibrant before the arrival detracts from that. I enjoyed that scene, actually -- it's well-acted -- and it's harmless for someone who's seen the movie a dozen times before, but it shouldn't be there.

TBH, the xenomorphs would end up being cannon-fodder in the face of human (or other sentient) military. I can understand your complaint, but if Cameron had made the xenomorphs individualistic and clever enough to avoid being bugs, well, that wouldn't have been Vietnam, that would have been weird. Maybe not bad, though. And, like it or not, the original alien was based off of the life cycle of (mistaken spider, actually ichneumon) wasps. They were Interstellar Dickwasps from jump; Cameron didn't add that.

 

[Casual Shinji]

If you can't see the themes of sexuality, rape, body horror, and above all motherhood in set of movies where the most powerful single entity in Alien (the ship itself) is called MOTHER, where the most locally dangerous antagonist in the second film is a QUEEN, and where the drive of the main opponents is REPRODUCTION, than I can only simply reiterate the WTF issued above with all the force that sane humankind can muster behind it.

Yes, I can see that. So I don't need some long lost daughter nonsense shoved in my face to emphisize what is already perfectly clear. This was not in the original cut and it was better for it.

That "Your daughter whom we've never heard of is dead" scene was as pointless as the scene where Newt's family goes out to the Derelict (What a coincedence!!!). But then both the Alien and Aliens director's cut suck.

And by the way, I fucking hated how Cameron turned the Alien into cannon fodder space bugs. That includes the queen.

I don't completely agree with you, but I do agree that using Newt's family was a (very) bad idea and that showing LV-426 before the Sulaco arrived is a VERY bad idea for both pacing and impact reasons -- my God, the arrival scene still resonates with me today. Hell, the first view of the Hadley's Hope colony in Aliens vs. Predator (the original PC game) is still amazing because it evokes that same sense of dread and horrible build-up. Seeing the colony occupied and vibrant before the arrival detracts from that. I enjoyed that scene, actually -- it's well-acted -- and it's harmless for someone who's seen the movie a dozen times before, but it shouldn't be there.

TBH, the xenomorphs would end up being cannon-fodder in the face of human (or other sentient) military. I can understand your complaint, but if Cameron had made the xenomorphs individualistic and clever enough to avoid being bugs, well, that wouldn't have been Vietnam, that would have been weird. Maybe not bad, though. And, like it or not, the original alien was based off of the life cycle of (mistaken spider, actually ichneumon) wasps. They were Interstellar Dickwasps from jump; Cameron didn't add that.

I'm not saying Aliens is a bad movie, as a matter of fact it does what any good sequel should do; Take the original concept in a new direction. But I didn't much care for that direction.

What I loved so much about Alien is that everything felt trully... alien. Everything from the Derelict, to the Space Jockey, to the Alien itself was unlike anything you'd ever seen. All of it felt like it came from the farthest and darkest reaches of space. That moment you see Kane, Dallas, and Lambert come across the Space Jockey, you can't help but feel captivated by this tremendous sense of Lovecraftian dread. At least, I did. Making a direct link to hive insects felt like a detriment to that.

I guess I also much prefered the nightmarish setting of the first movie. Because in many ways it's kind of structured like a dream/nightmare; You never see where the crew comes from or where they're going. you hear it, but you never actually see them leave or arrive. Just as in a dream you always just start off somewhere without really knowing how you even got there, and that arriving where you want to go somehow never works. And then ofcourse the Alien itself wich is practically undefeatable, just as something in your nightmare is undefeatable simply because of the fear you have for it.

 

[DiMono]

This looks like the beginning of a really interesting series. You have my attention.

 

[Mullahgrrl]

I still like the fourth one the best.

 

[Kukakkau]

I watched this video sheerly because I was surprised to see people who like me enjoyed Alien 3 the most and safe to say I like what I saw.

My reason (in addition to the ones in the video) for it is atmosphere - the characters KNOW what is there, they KNOW it's dangerous and remorseless but what can they do? It's a confined prison where they have nothing to defend themselves with.

It's claustrophobic - the xenomorph could come from anywhere, you can't get out, it's faster than you and what's worse is there is a bigger meaner version in the future inside the woman you've rescued.

The sense of threat is so strong in this film unlike the others where they had flamethrowers on their ship for some reason and armed marines that tear the xenos to pieces. While in this film all you can do is run, hell their best solution to stopping it is locking it in a room.

 

[Whispering Death]

I love the idea of this series.

 

[mchoueiri]

While I disagree with this defense of the film. I think it's a interesting thing to to take a look back on films that we may all consider bad. So I am looking forward o more of these.

 

[Snotnarok]

I can see where he's coming from, however as well characterized as they are they're prisoners, twisted bastards you really don't care what kind of lives they lead when ultimately as one of them boldly boasts he's a murderer and rapist.
Call me sadistic but watching someone who says that get ripped to pieces doesn't exactly make me go "Oh no" it makes me say "Well he sort of deserved that".

In the other ones it was people just doing their jobs, unprepared for the Xenomorphs and ultimately struggling till the very last of them. Ripley didn't have Hero immunity, first one she it was 1v1 and then the second one she had a platoon of bloody marines. But they were characters you could get behind. And Hicks comes off much less dull if you watch the extended cut, something that fills in a lot of holes in the 2nd movie.

 

[AvsJoe]

We needed this. And Jim is the right man for the job. Movie Defense Force has the potential to be my second-favourite series on this site behind Escape to the Movies.

 

[Zetatrain]

While I understand why Jim thinks the whole message of "The Aliens always win" based on what is shown in Alien 3 I cannot agree with him, because the Aliens don't win in the previous 2 movies. In Alien, Ripply blows the alien out of the airlock and escapes in the shuttle/pod. In Aliens, she does the same thing to the queen.

Now while Ripply's repeated encounter with the aliens despite her previous victories could be interpreted as a force of nature that she can not escape from, the problem is that there was no such message intended before Alien 3. Both Alien and Aliens had different directors and writers and from what I know neither had any intention to continue after their respected films. Since both movies end on a relatively happy note, Ripply's repeated encounters with the Aliens seems less of a running theme and more of an excuse to keep on making more Alien movies, which really shows in Resurrection.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

I always enjoyed A3, although its not one i watch a lot of. I guess it did something different when everyone expected marines with guns. I like the whole "no guns" approach as it made things more desperate.

Overall this should have been the last of the original trilogy and ended Ripleys story. Alien 4 should have started a brand new story with new characters......now they have to continue with Ripley and all her baggage just slows the movie. The star is the aliens, its about them. I wish they would realise that.

 

[LightspeedJack]

Some valid points made and I don't think Alien 3 is on it's own a bad film. However best in the series? Not even close. Alien did some revolutionary things for the horror genre and Aliens is one of the best action films I have ever seen. Alien 3 had some interesting ideas and gave Ripley's character a good ending but I found it the least enjoyable of the 3. (I'm not counting that piece of crap Resurrection as part of the series)

 

[Broken Orange]

Sure, this might be the best Alien. But don't you dare try to defend Resurrection!