Mythic Founder Thinks Most Free-to-Play MMOs Are "Crap"

[AzrealMaximillion]

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

WEEEEEEEEEE.
Side quests? Check
Main Quests? Check
Boss Mobs? Check
Hotkey Skills? Check
Click to target attack? Check.
Exploration? Check (It exists, if you don't think it does try harder)
Guilds? Online Economy? Parties? Dungeons?

So, see, the question is why having a persistent world, with lines to kill specific mobs or random PKs is somehow the definition of mmo. I'm baffled by this.

It's because that talls you that ALL the players in the persistent world are there at once. It's all hubs in GW. Even the PVP.

 

[Ghengis John]

Playing a lot of free-to-play games, I will admit, they feel small, and often like they have less content. Its not a bad thing, and it does make some games crap, but not all of them. Vindicus is still well-made and incredibly fun.

And to his other point, I encounter douchebags no matter what the game. They were in World of Warcraft and they were in Global Agenda. Paying a fee does not magically kill all the jerks.

I agree with this man on all counts. As someone who has enjoyed quite a few hours of vindictus and encountered literally thousands of jerks in pay to play mmo's like Neocron and WOW.

 

[Ali Littles]

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

K, dude, if you're going to argue about that the best angle you have is the time constraints, or the initial price being too high, or maybe a lower monthly fee.

You could buy ANY game for sixty bucks and not like it. I understand you're trying to go for the demo approach of being able to try a game out first, but you're best off just saying that. People love them semantics, after all.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

BUT I CAN PLAY MY CRAPPY PC GAMES WHEN EVER I WANT =)

But going with what you said, and the general perception of a crappy game, a crappy PC game, in your own words:

that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

.

Ergo, you've proven my point in that you can hit the same problem of wasting $60 regardless of the game being a subscription MMO or not.

Full circles. I love them.

 

[Funcakes]

It's because that talls you that ALL the players in the persistent world are there at once. It's all hubs in GW. Even the PVP.

Well then, we'll just have to wait and see when GW2 comes out, ON GUARDE GOOD SIR.

 

[Ali Littles]

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

K, dude, if you're going to argue about that the best angle you have is the time constraints, or the initial price being too high, or maybe a lower monthly fee.

You could buy ANY game for sixty bucks and not like it. I understand you're trying to go for the demo approach of being able to try a game out first, but you're best off just saying that. People love them semantics, after all.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

BUT I CAN PLAY MY CRAPPY PC GAMES WHEN EVER I WANT =)

But going with what you said, and the general perception of a crappy game, a crappy PC game, in your own words:

that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

.

Ergo, you've proven my point in that you can hit the same problem of wasting $60 regardless of the game being a subscription MMO or not.

Full circles. I love them.

FAIL i can still play 60 buck's worth of crappy game if want to crappygame=crappymmo NO i can still play crappy game with a beer and some friends and laugh at how bad it is crappy mmo i can not

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

 

[Ali Littles]

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

where getting no where with this.SEE you on the battle field GW2 style =) ps. thanks for the typing advice

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

K, dude, if you're going to argue about that the best angle you have is the time constraints, or the initial price being too high, or maybe a lower monthly fee.

You could buy ANY game for sixty bucks and not like it. I understand you're trying to go for the demo approach of being able to try a game out first, but you're best off just saying that. People love them semantics, after all.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

BUT I CAN PLAY MY CRAPPY PC GAMES WHEN EVER I WANT =)

But going with what you said, and the general perception of a crappy game, a crappy PC game, in your own words:

that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

.

Ergo, you've proven my point in that you can hit the same problem of wasting $60 regardless of the game being a subscription MMO or not.

Full circles. I love them.

FAIL i can still play 60 buck's worth of crappy game if want to crappygame=crappymmo NO i can still play crappy game with a beer and some friends and laugh at how bad it is crappy mmo i can not

Ummm, I'm going to break that point up here. Call me wrong but you can make as many characters as you want until lvl 20 in WoW right? Call me wrong again, but all subscription MMOs have trials right? So technically you don't have to spend any money on any subscription MMO at all...
Which means you don't even have to bother wasting $60 seeing as how you can download trial demos...
Which means MMOs you don't like don't matter because you can make as many trial characters as you want...

Which means not wasting money...
Which means you have no argument anymore.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

where getting no where with this.SEE you on the battle field GW2 style =) ps. thanks for the typing advice

See you later, enjoy your invalid argument and your hub based CORPG.

 

[Ali Littles]

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

K, dude, if you're going to argue about that the best angle you have is the time constraints, or the initial price being too high, or maybe a lower monthly fee.

You could buy ANY game for sixty bucks and not like it. I understand you're trying to go for the demo approach of being able to try a game out first, but you're best off just saying that. People love them semantics, after all.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

BUT I CAN PLAY MY CRAPPY PC GAMES WHEN EVER I WANT =)

But going with what you said, and the general perception of a crappy game, a crappy PC game, in your own words:

that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

.

Ergo, you've proven my point in that you can hit the same problem of wasting $60 regardless of the game being a subscription MMO or not.

Full circles. I love them.

FAIL i can still play 60 buck's worth of crappy game if want to crappygame=crappymmo NO i can still play crappy game with a beer and some friends and laugh at how bad it is crappy mmo i can not

Ummm, I'm going to break that point up here. Call me wrong but you can make as many characters as you want until lvl 20 in WoW right? Call me wrong again, but all subscription MMOs have trials right? So technically you don't have to spend any money on any subscription MMO at all...
Which means you don't even have to bother wasting $60 seeing as how you can download trial demos...
Which means MMOs you don't like don't matter because you can make as many trial characters as you want...

Which means not wasting money...
Which means you have no argument anymore.

but all subscription MMOs have trials right .......Oo NO WHO TOLD YOU THAT

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

K, dude, if you're going to argue about that the best angle you have is the time constraints, or the initial price being too high, or maybe a lower monthly fee.

You could buy ANY game for sixty bucks and not like it. I understand you're trying to go for the demo approach of being able to try a game out first, but you're best off just saying that. People love them semantics, after all.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

BUT I CAN PLAY MY CRAPPY PC GAMES WHEN EVER I WANT =)

But going with what you said, and the general perception of a crappy game, a crappy PC game, in your own words:

that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

.

Ergo, you've proven my point in that you can hit the same problem of wasting $60 regardless of the game being a subscription MMO or not.

Full circles. I love them.

FAIL i can still play 60 buck's worth of crappy game if want to crappygame=crappymmo NO i can still play crappy game with a beer and some friends and laugh at how bad it is crappy mmo i can not

Ummm, I'm going to break that point up here. Call me wrong but you can make as many characters as you want until lvl 20 in WoW right? Call me wrong again, but all subscription MMOs have trials right? So technically you don't have to spend any money on any subscription MMO at all...
Which means you don't even have to bother wasting $60 seeing as how you can download trial demos...
Which means MMOs you don't like don't matter because you can make as many trial characters as you want...

Which means not wasting money...
Which means you have no argument anymore.

but all subscription MMOs have trials right .......Oo NO WHO TOLD YOU THAT

Good fight but I think I won that exchange

With all MMOs having a trial you don't need to spend ANY cash.
Crappy MMOs can't get your money, that's why they all fail.

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

K, dude, if you're going to argue about that the best angle you have is the time constraints, or the initial price being too high, or maybe a lower monthly fee.

You could buy ANY game for sixty bucks and not like it. I understand you're trying to go for the demo approach of being able to try a game out first, but you're best off just saying that. People love them semantics, after all.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

BUT I CAN PLAY MY CRAPPY PC GAMES WHEN EVER I WANT =)

But going with what you said, and the general perception of a crappy game, a crappy PC game, in your own words:

that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

.

Ergo, you've proven my point in that you can hit the same problem of wasting $60 regardless of the game being a subscription MMO or not.

Full circles. I love them.

FAIL i can still play 60 buck's worth of crappy game if want to crappygame=crappymmo NO i can still play crappy game with a beer and some friends and laugh at how bad it is crappy mmo i can not

Ummm, I'm going to break that point up here. Call me wrong but you can make as many characters as you want until lvl 20 in WoW right? Call me wrong again, but all subscription MMOs have trials right? So technically you don't have to spend any money on any subscription MMO at all...
Which means you don't even have to bother wasting $60 seeing as how you can download trial demos...
Which means MMOs you don't like don't matter because you can make as many trial characters as you want...

Which means not wasting money...
Which means you have no argument anymore.

but all subscription MMOs have trials right .......Oo NO WHO TOLD YOU THAT

And guess what

*shifty eye*

the trials are FREE too.

 

[Ali Littles]

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

where getting no where with this.SEE you on the battle field GW2 style =) ps. thanks for the typing advice

See you later, enjoy your invalid argument and your hub based CORPG.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

K, dude, if you're going to argue about that the best angle you have is the time constraints, or the initial price being too high, or maybe a lower monthly fee.

You could buy ANY game for sixty bucks and not like it. I understand you're trying to go for the demo approach of being able to try a game out first, but you're best off just saying that. People love them semantics, after all.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

BUT I CAN PLAY MY CRAPPY PC GAMES WHEN EVER I WANT =)

But going with what you said, and the general perception of a crappy game, a crappy PC game, in your own words:

that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

.

Ergo, you've proven my point in that you can hit the same problem of wasting $60 regardless of the game being a subscription MMO or not.

Full circles. I love them.

FAIL i can still play 60 buck's worth of crappy game if want to crappygame=crappymmo NO i can still play crappy game with a beer and some friends and laugh at how bad it is crappy mmo i can not

Ummm, I'm going to break that point up here. Call me wrong but you can make as many characters as you want until lvl 20 in WoW right? Call me wrong again, but all subscription MMOs have trials right? So technically you don't have to spend any money on any subscription MMO at all...
Which means you don't even have to bother wasting $60 seeing as how you can download trial demos...
Which means MMOs you don't like don't matter because you can make as many trial characters as you want...

Which means not wasting money...
Which means you have no argument anymore.

but all subscription MMOs have trials right .......Oo NO WHO TOLD YOU THAT

And guess what

*shifty eye*

the trials are FREE too.

not all pay2play have trials SWTOR for example won't have a trial even after it comes.
out and my problem is not paying for the game only it's paying for time am not playing aion has a perfect system put in 20 buck's play for the time payed 4.if i had 200 hours left i can come back 4 weeks still have 200 left. the pay2play system today is a ripoff but you can give them your money they would spend it better anyway

 

[alinos]

All too often "Free-to-play" translates into "Free-to-Grind; Pay-to-actually-PLAY"
I can only think of two "free to play" games off the top of my head that are more about games and less about annoying their players into compliance with tedium and mountains of busywork.

You mean pay 2 play like all sub based mmo's

Fact is there are shining examples of F2P/B2P working great just as there are shining examples in sub based mmo's

And their is trash in each sector.

Paying 15 dollars a month in WoW along with paying for expansions is ridiculous

Even worse is the fact that the content(raid) added over the next 12-18 months is content that should have been part of the expansion anyway.
The Lich king took ages to show up before his relevant expansion that content should have been in the expansion not the content that allowed them another 12+ months of sub fees

Sub based mmo's should be completely free to gain access to with a sub the only condition to play the game WoW is the worst offender there's 3 revenue streams in MMO's and it takes from all of them

Not everyone who plays an mmo wants to raid but that's the only content that's ever added to an mmo outside of the expansions

Instead there should be a mix to cater to different players why can't a new zone be added 2-3 times a year new crafting etc.

The advantage of F2P done right where MT's exist the company should be able to see what things the playerbase actually deems is worth money

 

[Ali Littles]

All too often "Free-to-play" translates into "Free-to-Grind; Pay-to-actually-PLAY"
I can only think of two "free to play" games off the top of my head that are more about games and less about annoying their players into compliance with tedium and mountains of busywork.

You mean pay 2 play like all sub based mmo's

Fact is there are shining examples of F2P/B2P working great just as there are shining examples in sub based mmo's

And their is trash in each sector.

Paying 15 dollars a month in WoW along with paying for expansions is ridiculous

Even worse is the fact that the content(raid) added over the next 12-18 months is content that should have been part of the expansion anyway.
The Lich king took ages to show up before his relevant expansion that content should have been in the expansion not the content that allowed them another 12+ months of sub fees

Sub based mmo's should be completely free to gain access to with a sub the only condition to play the game WoW is the worst offender there's 3 revenue streams in MMO's and it takes from all of them

Not everyone who plays an mmo wants to raid but that's the only content that's ever added to an mmo outside of the expansions

Instead there should be a mix to cater to different players why can't a new zone be added 2-3 times a year new crafting etc.

The advantage of F2P done right where MT's exist the company should be able to see what things the playerbase actually deems is worth money

sssshhhhh your common sense is to much for the wowtards(every wow player on here plays as trolls)not that there's anything wrong with that troll chick's ftw

 

[Ali Littles]

this song fit's the pay2play people so well http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swrLCQz-EaI

 

[infohippie]

So what's his explanation for subscription MMOs being mostly crap as well? And doesn't he think it's a bit ridiculous to charge for the box as well as have a sub on top of that?

 

[AzrealMaximillion]

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

too all the people saying free2play is crap GUILD WARS 2 (now go cry in your corners sheep) as a guy who played free2play this guy has shit coming out his mouth the reason pay 2 play is bad is cause i don't have the time and money to pay every month for a games i wont be playing all month am going to play dcuo when it comes out i can put 40 bucks in the games but u know what i can come back 2 months later and and nothing will change i can sign on and don't have to play for time am not playing wow make money for time your not play more than when you are playing

Guild Wars is not an MMO. The creators have said so themselves. The gameplay is also a pretty big hint of that. Argument invalid. Also Guild Wars is not F2P. You have to buy the game. We're talking F2P in the sense of games like TF2, Maple Story, etc. Now I know you're angry about having your argument deemed not competent, but just relax.

Also run on sentences suck.

guild wars 2 is a mmo (massive multiplayer online) and is how all mmos should be you buy the game u play 4 free they can even trow in microtransactions i won't mind. and they said it's not a traditional mmo once it's a open world with more than a 100 players it's a mmo no matter what the devs said

No it's not. It's a series of instances. You can't just walk up to a person, accept a quest, and be off into the open world like in MMOs. You are sent into your own private "quest area". That's not really in the style of an MMO. It's more like a lobby for PVE quests with a very strong PVP focus. You can level up entirely on PVP. Not an MMO.

do you know what a mmo is SAY IT SAY IT NOW

I'm going to end the argument with a bold fact about why Guild Wars isn't an MMO.

FACT: MMOs are a game where every facet of the game is persistent and playable by everyone in the same world.

Since Guild Wars is not like that at all it is NOT massively multiplayer. The max party you can have in is 12 in a major event, there's nothing massive about that multiplayer. In WoW a raid can have up to 40 people, divided into 8 parties of 5. That's 8 parties. On the same quest. That's massive multiplay.

Guild Wars is not an MMO.

A party max is not a limit on the world 40 people in wows raid is not all the people in the world i can have a party of 8 people but i will still run into people not in my party

One. Coherent sentences make it easier for me to make an argument. Periods and commas. Use them.
Second. You missed the point completely. Yes a 40 person raid is not the world limit in WoW. That's for raids. Everywhere else in the game is reachable all on one map (with the exception of instances and PVP.) That's what makes it massively multiplayer.

Now I know that you can see other parties in those hubs on GW, but you don't play with other parties in PVE events on GW. Max 12 players. No other parties with you. That's essentially an instance. If when doing a quest you can't run into a player from the opposing faction and kill them, it's not a massively multiplayer game. You can travel from Horde city to Alliance city and vice versa to kill players in WoW without ever needing to enter a PVP game. Can't do than in GW, thus not an MMO.

where getting no where with this.SEE you on the battle field GW2 style =) ps. thanks for the typing advice

See you later, enjoy your invalid argument and your hub based CORPG.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

K, dude, if you're going to argue about that the best angle you have is the time constraints, or the initial price being too high, or maybe a lower monthly fee.

You could buy ANY game for sixty bucks and not like it. I understand you're trying to go for the demo approach of being able to try a game out first, but you're best off just saying that. People love them semantics, after all.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

Pardon me while I enjoy a hearty laugh at all the people complaining about "paying to play the game I just bought".

Every MMO gives you your first month free. That's straight fact.

If you play the game 2 hours a day, you're getting 60 hours for $60 (or much, much cheaper if the game's been out for some months). Meanwhile, the majority of today's AAA offerings struggle to break the 10-15 hour barrier for the same price.

Now figure, assuming you enjoy the game, that you can squeeze 2+ hours a day (on average) of play every month beyond the first at a cost of $15 per month. That's an insanely good cost/reward ratio any way you slice it.

Maybe people don't realize how shitty the F2P MMOs are because everyone compares everything to WoW. WoW is fucking seven years old now, and the graphics weren't exactly cutting edge even at release. It doesn't take much, given current tech, to slap together an MMO that competes with WoW aesthetically while aping the majority of that game's well-tread mechanics.

The next generation of MMOs, however, is a completely different ballgame - especially in terms of production value. If it costs $10-15 a month to enable that sort of high-end production, and to generate higher quality content moving forward, that's where I'll be playing. Probably because I can swing $10-15 a month for a legitimate product/service.

Meanwhile, you've got people rightly calling bullshit on Xbox Live, which is one of the greatest thieveries going, and all sorts of chumps flock to defend it...

Thank you for putting in the best perspective possible. If people can't figure out that the don't like the MMO their playing in the first month, then there is seriously something wrong here. Seriously there is no real point to the argument of "i don't want to pay more for a game I just bought" at all with this fact.

Yeah the fact i just bought a game for 60 buck and i get a month free(how merciful thank you dev's give me a month free on a game i just bought)but what if during that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

You could say the same thing about any non subscription you have to pay $60 for on the PC. To be completely honest that's the risk you take with buying games on the PC in general. You can't trade them in so you better make damn well sure its worth your money.

BUT I CAN PLAY MY CRAPPY PC GAMES WHEN EVER I WANT =)

But going with what you said, and the general perception of a crappy game, a crappy PC game, in your own words:

that month i don't like that game 60 buck's gone to waste

.

Ergo, you've proven my point in that you can hit the same problem of wasting $60 regardless of the game being a subscription MMO or not.

Full circles. I love them.

FAIL i can still play 60 buck's worth of crappy game if want to crappygame=crappymmo NO i can still play crappy game with a beer and some friends and laugh at how bad it is crappy mmo i can not

Ummm, I'm going to break that point up here. Call me wrong but you can make as many characters as you want until lvl 20 in WoW right? Call me wrong again, but all subscription MMOs have trials right? So technically you don't have to spend any money on any subscription MMO at all...
Which means you don't even have to bother wasting $60 seeing as how you can download trial demos...
Which means MMOs you don't like don't matter because you can make as many trial characters as you want...

Which means not wasting money...
Which means you have no argument anymore.

but all subscription MMOs have trials right .......Oo NO WHO TOLD YOU THAT

And guess what

*shifty eye*

the trials are FREE too.

not all pay2play have trials SWTOR for example won't have a trial even after it comes.
out and my problem is not paying for the game only it's paying for time am not playing aion has a perfect system put in 20 buck's play for the time payed 4.if i had 200 hours left i can come back 4 weeks still have 200 left. the pay2play system today is a ripoff but you can give them your money they would spend it better anyway

First, where are you pulling this, "SWTOR will not have a trial" crap? Where does it say this? Or are you just pulling facts out of your ass? The game isn't out for another 2 months, and I highly doubt that with your grammatical skill that you work for BioWare. and your point about Aion's P2P system is really irrelevant to your original argument. Now your just trying to come at me. Pfft. So Aion's time system is more convenient for the player. It also has the flaw of not being good for a business. If enough people just buy 200 hours worth of game, and just drop the game, the game could close down due to not generating revenue. The standard P2P formula makes sure that if people plan on dropping the game, they do so after their time is expired as to not get ripped off.