New Console Generation Brings Fear

[Susurrus]

SNIP

Yes but don't you have to pay a subscription for Xbox live? I'd take always on DRM over subscription for that any day.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Not going to touch it, because it's just bad, but great job comparing Jews to computers. You know who you are.[footnote]Post 147[/footnote]

 

[K4RN4GE911]

I'll admit, I'm a console gamer. Have been since I could pick up a controller. I'll be honest, I'm a bit wary of the next few years as far as I'm concerned. Online passes and "exclusive" DLC are things that just really chafe my thighs though. If shit like that is prominent in the future, the I'll be saying, "C'est la vie, adios, good riddance, fuck you" to my PS3 and probably switch to PC. Even though half of the people I know that own one can go fuck themselves with a fist full of fire.

EDIT: Captcha says "Know your rights." Holy fuck, my computer's talking to me!

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

SNIP

Yes but don't you have to pay a subscription for Xbox live? I'd take always on DRM over subscription for that any day.

Nope. Silver (free) subscription thing is fine for me. Whenever I feel a burning need to play multiplayer I might buy one month of gold, but that's it. No difference in speed of downloads or content available or price of content.

And no always on DRM, so when my house's notoriously shitty internet connection goes dead I can still play all my games.

 

[PunkRex]

Im all for the progression of technology and stuff but... I don't care, I want more 3rd party games. I may seriously have to coincider looking into PC gaming if things go tits up, I barely play AAA titles anymore anyway.

 

[Madmanonfire]

You say that but I have yet to see any of these elitests in the thread yet you have brought them up.

Care to point them out?

Have you tried reading the thread?

Here, I'll help you out by providing an example from this page:

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the glorious PC continuing to be the only intelligent way to game.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

You say that but I have yet to see any of these elitests in the thread yet you have brought them up.

Care to point them out?

Have you tried reading the thread?

Here, I'll help you out by providing an example from this page:

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the glorious PC continuing to be the only intelligent way to game.

I don't think you know what an elitist is. Believing your platform is the best is not elitism.

Maybe look it up?

 

[Sylveria]

It's getting harder and harder to distinguish between iHipsters and PCgamers. They're quickly evening out their level of arrogance. It just amuses me how the PC audience keeps pointing to a few indie darlings and saying "Yep ours is the best." There's some indie stuff I love, don't get me wrong, but the "PC is better cause we're so indie," mind set is breeding some douchebags that rival EA and Activision but without any of the massive financial success to back it up.

Heck, there's indie devs out there who have won indie gaming awards multiple times for a game that isn't even done yet.. despite having a big publisher in their pocket and not really being indie to begin with.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

"Which means that they have to pick a minimum level of support, and make it work for that."

That's simply not true, games DO run better on better hardware. Not at the same level as the lowest supported hardware. Games run better on a GTX280 than on a 7800GT. Better framerate, resolution, AA, world-settings, etc.

Consoles have to be cross platform to be profitable due to how much of each target market is split between PS3 and 360, though I suppose that could change, though on PC side there is no great split as Mac owners don't seem to be the gaming type. And the differences between PS3 and 360 are HUGE, as I can attest from the explanation of how different they are on the most basic level of the OS. PS3 is Unix based, while 360 is based on Windows coding architecture. That's before even the fundamental and hardware differences of multiple small SPEs and how the memory is divided up.

"And I never complained about using a keyboard once."

Well you did:

"A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard"

You complained about how people are put off by it, I never alleged you personally were put off by it, you alleged others were. But I guarantee you, it's far easier to explain the concepts of circle strafing and such with discrete keys than a thumbstick as I have experimented subjecting complete novices to gaming to different controller inputs. Keyboard is an incredibly capable gaming interface.

"you neglected to even TRY to refute, which is the inherent added difficulty of game apparatus acquisition on PC"

You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices. And I guarantee you within your area there is a computer repair shop that will build a gaming rig for your for a flat fee and get a good deal on the components. I work in one of these computer repair shops not in a major city but a quiet town and I'm business contact with computer repair shops of each town over north south and southwest. You can easily find out online what components you want or you can just buy a pre-built PC.

You're an idiot too.
YES games run better on better software, BUT THERE IS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT THAT MUST BE MET. Developers have to set a minimum, that often is out of reach of people that don't constantly upgrade hardware. They don't build a game then have it magically work everywhere.

Console games have to be multiplatform to be profitable, huh? Is that why Halo, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Gears of War, God of War, Forza, and many, many others were financial failures that never got any sequels made?

Saying that PEOPLE, other than myself, are put off by keyboard controls, is not complaining. Don't try to fudge language to weasel out of being wrong.

Keyboarding IS a good means of gameplay, in many instances, but that doesnt change the fact that many people ARE INTIMIDATED BY IT and would rather use a dedicated game-controlling item. Which brings me to the last point:
"You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices"
That isnt what I said AT ALL. I was SPECIFICALLY talking about pc controllers, joysticks, and other such items. Your computer COMES with a keyboard and mouse. No one that isnt already semi-familiar with computers is going to look for replacements for them unless one breaks. And again, NOT COMPLAINING. You really need to learn what complaining is. If I were saying that I had trouble finding them, THEN it would be complaining. However, as stated previously, I use a keyboard and mouse anyway, so for me it's a non-issue.

Your last point brings up something else i FORGOT to mention, and that's the added annoyance of keeping up with all the details of PC use. You have to keep track of serial numbers, software versions, hardware specs (AND REQUIREMENTS), and lately, mountains of DRM. That's a lot of work that MANY people dont want to bother with.

oh, and one last thing... "Yet he DID, by the time you posted that Idiot allegation he had provides sources (in another reply stream_ and you haven't."
WHAT?!
Ignoring the issue of grammar, as I dont claim to have the best by any means, I don't know what the hell you're on about. Matthew doesnt need to PROVIDE sources, because he ASKED for them, in a manner that made it clear HE did not believe evidence to support the prior post existed. Which it does. That's why he's an idiot, because he chose to be self-assuredly confident that his opponent had no leg upon which to stand, without ever bothering to look at the facts.

you seem to believe I am saying console gaming is somehow BETTER than PC, and getting confused. I'm saying that many people PREFER console gaming, and listed several points as to WHY that would be, and why consoles are going to stick around for a while

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

You say that but I have yet to see any of these elitests in the thread yet you have brought them up.

Care to point them out?

Have you tried reading the thread?

Here, I'll help you out by providing an example from this page:

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the glorious PC continuing to be the only intelligent way to game.

I don't think you know what an elitist is. Believing your platform is the best is not elitism.

Maybe look it up?[/quote]

Or... you could look it up. There's a very nice definition in the post matthew replied to.

 

[Treblaine]

"Which means that they have to pick a minimum level of support, and make it work for that."

That's simply not true, games DO run better on better hardware. Not at the same level as the lowest supported hardware. Games run better on a GTX280 than on a 7800GT. Better framerate, resolution, AA, world-settings, etc.

Consoles have to be cross platform to be profitable due to how much of each target market is split between PS3 and 360, though I suppose that could change, though on PC side there is no great split as Mac owners don't seem to be the gaming type. And the differences between PS3 and 360 are HUGE, as I can attest from the explanation of how different they are on the most basic level of the OS. PS3 is Unix based, while 360 is based on Windows coding architecture. That's before even the fundamental and hardware differences of multiple small SPEs and how the memory is divided up.

"And I never complained about using a keyboard once."

Well you did:

"A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard"

You complained about how people are put off by it, I never alleged you personally were put off by it, you alleged others were. But I guarantee you, it's far easier to explain the concepts of circle strafing and such with discrete keys than a thumbstick as I have experimented subjecting complete novices to gaming to different controller inputs. Keyboard is an incredibly capable gaming interface.

"you neglected to even TRY to refute, which is the inherent added difficulty of game apparatus acquisition on PC"

You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices. And I guarantee you within your area there is a computer repair shop that will build a gaming rig for your for a flat fee and get a good deal on the components. I work in one of these computer repair shops not in a major city but a quiet town and I'm business contact with computer repair shops of each town over north south and southwest. You can easily find out online what components you want or you can just buy a pre-built PC.

You're an idiot too.
YES games run better on better software, BUT THERE IS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT THAT MUST BE MET. Developers have to set a minimum, that often is out of reach of people that don't constantly upgrade hardware. They don't build a game then have it magically work everywhere.

Console games have to be multiplatform to be profitable, huh? Is that why Halo, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Gears of War, God of War, Forza, and many, many others were financial failures that never got any sequels made?

Saying that PEOPLE, other than myself, are put off by keyboard controls, is not complaining. Don't try to fudge language to weasel out of being wrong.

Keyboarding IS a good means of gameplay, in many instances, but that doesnt change the fact that many people ARE INTIMIDATED BY IT and would rather use a dedicated game-controlling item. Which brings me to the last point:
"You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices"
That isnt what I said AT ALL. I was SPECIFICALLY talking about pc controllers, joysticks, and other such items. Your computer COMES with a keyboard and mouse. No one that isnt already semi-familiar with computers is going to look for replacements for them unless one breaks. And again, NOT COMPLAINING. You really need to learn what complaining is. If I were saying that I had trouble finding them, THEN it would be complaining. However, as stated previously, I use a keyboard and mouse anyway, so for me it's a non-issue.

Your last point brings up something else i FORGOT to mention, and that's the added annoyance of keeping up with all the details of PC use. You have to keep track of serial numbers, software versions, hardware specs (AND REQUIREMENTS), and lately, mountains of DRM. That's a lot of work that MANY people dont want to bother with.

oh, and one last thing... "Yet he DID, by the time you posted that Idiot allegation he had provides sources (in another reply stream_ and you haven't."
WHAT?!
Ignoring the issue of grammar, as I dont claim to have the best by any means, I don't know what the hell you're on about. Matthew doesnt need to PROVIDE sources, because he ASKED for them, in a manner that made it clear HE did not believe evidence to support the prior post existed. Which it does. That's why he's an idiot, because he chose to be self-assuredly confident that his opponent had no leg upon which to stand, without ever bothering to look at the facts.

you seem to believe I am saying console gaming is somehow BETTER than PC, and getting confused. I'm saying that many people PREFER console gaming, and listed several points as to WHY that would be, and why consoles are going to stick around for a while

You are a bad forum user labelling everyone you disagree with an idiot. Attack the argument, not the fellow user.

Why your IDEAS and arguments are wrong:

You can still play most of the latest games on 2007 vintage hardware (2007 the year when PS3 came out in Europe) such as:

http://www.swtor.com/info/faq#171060
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=1400&game=modern%20warfare%203

Complaining about being unable to run said games on 2003 hardware is equivalent of complaining you can't play Playstation 3 games on a Playstation 2!

"Halo, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Gears of War, God of War, Forza, and many, many others were financial failures"

All first-party games. Sony would NEVER release Uncharted on a Microsoft System, nor would Microsoft release games they produced on Sony platforms. They didn't do as well as the ycould have done if they'd been multi platform but these games are "system sellers" their purpose is to convince people to buy one system over another.

Microsoft would allow their games on Microsoft windows and they subsequently HAVE by making Fable 1 & 3 as well as Gears 1 on PC. But PC gamers hated Gears for various reasons so didn't bother with sequels. Alan Wake was exclusive, now it's on PC.

"many people ARE INTIMIDATED BY KEYBOARDS"

Prove it.

"That's a lot of work that MANY people dont want to bother with."

Yes, and you don't have to bother with it. There are affordable and even free services that do all that for you.

"without ever bothering to look at the facts."

Matthew has done more than look at the facts, he has presented them for you.

People are more than capable of PC gaming, billions of people use PCs every without any effort. The difference is console's marketing.

Consoles had an advantage with disc-based bone-simplicity but that has been exploited by excessive re-trading to make that an insufficiently viable format while PC are now arguably MORE convenient with Steam functioning like iTunes for your games.

 

[Susurrus]

SNIP

So does that mean you DO need one for multiplayer?

 

[The Lunatic]

Oh? The Luddites are finally embracing stuff we've had for years?

Oh my. Next they'll Physx and Tessellation.

 

[Aprilgold]

WALL OF QUOTES BELOW, WARNING!

Spoiler

Seeing as how so many devs WANT:
Always on DRM
Online Passes
DLC that should have been in the damn game
Digital only distribution - with no price cut to match
ect
ect

I'll probably end up skipping the Xbox720/PS4/WiiU2 if that crap happens.

Gaming is a HOBBY, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be treated like a criminal by companies that want MY money.

Screw them.

Digital Distribution isn't all bad, unless EA does it.

But, really, you want to know who's to blame for the Day 0 and back DLC and online passes? Welp, the consumer for not being smart and voting with their wallets, and its everyone's fault on this.

Honestly, if the publisher can make money off of something they will go out of their way to abuse it to their gain. Its like a used car dealer jacking up his prices, he can do it all he wishes and if people keep buying these low quality cars for high amounts of money, be damned he'll keep pushing until they notice.

Honestly I care less about the power of the consoles chips and more about the quality of their games. The one doesn't really lead to the other.

They do, unless you want more buggy games. While from a consumer standpoint you shouldn't care about what its made of as long as its doing its job to satisfaction, but it is easier to design for more open ended tech.

I guess a classic way of showing that you do need a newer generation is how much space the gun takes up in a FPS like Call of Duty. If you notice, its about 20 or 40 percent of the bottom right or left corners of the screen. Their not just doing that because it looks good, their doing it so they don't have to render whats underneath the gun on screen. It also might be the reason the knife is a button, and not a weapon that you can equip. I'd also like to point out that it is locked, on both the PC and Console at thirty frames per second, which is lower then a more acceptable sixty frames per second. I think without this trick it would be hurting to go over ten frames a second.

The Xbox 360 is so old now that it chugs when ever you play anything new on it. Holding back a generation of consoles can hurt the developers programming and making the game more then it will hurt your bottom line.

For most people I wouldn't have minded if they were against PC elitests as they are right to not like them.

Now, you on the other hand call everyone who sees PC as a better platform an elitest which is simply wrong as many people here justify their points well. I have seen enough of your posts and threads to know this.

Trying not to start a flame war here but the interesting thing to note is that a PC is indeed more capable then a console, so doesn't that make it better? The question in my question is in the word "Capable". Which is the limitation or the possibility of something, so does making many limitations found on a console seem like a foreign thing on a PC make the PC better in terms of raw hardware power?

Here, last warning on this. I AM NOT STARTING A FLAME WAR, I AM JUST ASKING MATTHEW94 PERSONAL OPINION ON THE QUESTION ABOVE, PLEASE, SOMEONE NOT RAGE-QUOTE ME TO TELL ME I'M WRONG SINCE I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE QUESTION IN QUESTION!

do we really need a new console generation?


Just to have amrginalyl different looking Cod?

At this rate, I'm going to have to put up a giant spoiler on my whole post.

Getting a upgrade in hardware does not mean that CoD will look any different. And here's the kicker, get this... Lean in real close, GRAPHICS ARE NOT WHAT THE GAME LOOKS LIKE! I hope you caught that, because what a game looks like is a aesthetic choice, not a graphical capability.

Aesthetics is style, graphics is the pure power supporting what the aesthetics want to do.

---------------------------------------------

Jump on the PC bandwagon now and you won't be a hipster or elitist, guaranteed. I don't think Microsoft or Sony realize how important a console generation cycle is for the hardware or programming and making the titles for the system.

You can't surpass a limitation, only trick the machine into doing something it didn't want to do, and the more tricks at work mean the more possible bugs, programming errors, crashes and many other equally damaging occurrences if they don't properly iron out everything.

Like I said before, I'll say it again. Sony and Microsoft know absolutely nothing when it comes to the console generation cycle, all it knows is that if it keeps selling then it will stay on the market.