New Console Generation Brings Fear

[Zom-B]

Week by week, I'm more and more convinced that when I'm ready to "upgrade" to the next generation of gaming, it will be via PC and not console. I'd much rather shell out $1000 for a quality PC than $500 for a console that will have little of the function of a PC and definitely not match it in graphic output or processing power.

I'm fairly convinced that I will be giving the next console generation a mix and returning to PC gaming.

On a side note, sometimes I wonder if anyone at Sony or MS has ever floated the idea of making a "PC lite" as their next "console". Fuck proprietary discs and memory and say to consumers: "Hey, here is an affordable base model gaming box that is designed to give you maximum enjoyment out of gaming." Make it compatible with current PC games and components, upgradeable, sleek and price conscious. Basically a PC masquerading as a console. Something that works out of the box, that Sony can still develop for and contract out to other developers and make games guaranteed to run on the machine, even if not at optimal levels, but still allows for other gamers to get the most of of games like Skyrim.

Obviously this is a wild fantasy and I don't see either company doing anything remotely like this, but I wonder if it's a viable direction. PCs and consoles are converging anyway- or maybe I should say that consoles are beginning to act more like PCs, so why not just make them into PCs? Bah, it's probably a completely unnecessary evolution of gaming devices when we have freedom to buy quality PCs right now.

 

[Susurrus]

SNIP

Yes but don't you have to pay a subscription for Xbox live? I'd take always on DRM over subscription for that any day.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Not going to touch it, because it's just bad, but great job comparing Jews to computers. You know who you are.[footnote]Post 147[/footnote]

 

[K4RN4GE911]

I'll admit, I'm a console gamer. Have been since I could pick up a controller. I'll be honest, I'm a bit wary of the next few years as far as I'm concerned. Online passes and "exclusive" DLC are things that just really chafe my thighs though. If shit like that is prominent in the future, the I'll be saying, "C'est la vie, adios, good riddance, fuck you" to my PS3 and probably switch to PC. Even though half of the people I know that own one can go fuck themselves with a fist full of fire.

EDIT: Captcha says "Know your rights." Holy fuck, my computer's talking to me!

 

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

SNIP

Yes but don't you have to pay a subscription for Xbox live? I'd take always on DRM over subscription for that any day.

Nope. Silver (free) subscription thing is fine for me. Whenever I feel a burning need to play multiplayer I might buy one month of gold, but that's it. No difference in speed of downloads or content available or price of content.

And no always on DRM, so when my house's notoriously shitty internet connection goes dead I can still play all my games.

 

[PunkRex]

Im all for the progression of technology and stuff but... I don't care, I want more 3rd party games. I may seriously have to coincider looking into PC gaming if things go tits up, I barely play AAA titles anymore anyway.

 

[Madmanonfire]

You say that but I have yet to see any of these elitests in the thread yet you have brought them up.

Care to point them out?

Have you tried reading the thread?

Here, I'll help you out by providing an example from this page:

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the glorious PC continuing to be the only intelligent way to game.

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

You say that but I have yet to see any of these elitests in the thread yet you have brought them up.

Care to point them out?

Have you tried reading the thread?

Here, I'll help you out by providing an example from this page:

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the glorious PC continuing to be the only intelligent way to game.

I don't think you know what an elitist is. Believing your platform is the best is not elitism.

Maybe look it up?

 

[Sylveria]

It's getting harder and harder to distinguish between iHipsters and PCgamers. They're quickly evening out their level of arrogance. It just amuses me how the PC audience keeps pointing to a few indie darlings and saying "Yep ours is the best." There's some indie stuff I love, don't get me wrong, but the "PC is better cause we're so indie," mind set is breeding some douchebags that rival EA and Activision but without any of the massive financial success to back it up.

Heck, there's indie devs out there who have won indie gaming awards multiple times for a game that isn't even done yet.. despite having a big publisher in their pocket and not really being indie to begin with.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

"Which means that they have to pick a minimum level of support, and make it work for that."

That's simply not true, games DO run better on better hardware. Not at the same level as the lowest supported hardware. Games run better on a GTX280 than on a 7800GT. Better framerate, resolution, AA, world-settings, etc.

Consoles have to be cross platform to be profitable due to how much of each target market is split between PS3 and 360, though I suppose that could change, though on PC side there is no great split as Mac owners don't seem to be the gaming type. And the differences between PS3 and 360 are HUGE, as I can attest from the explanation of how different they are on the most basic level of the OS. PS3 is Unix based, while 360 is based on Windows coding architecture. That's before even the fundamental and hardware differences of multiple small SPEs and how the memory is divided up.

"And I never complained about using a keyboard once."

Well you did:

"A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard"

You complained about how people are put off by it, I never alleged you personally were put off by it, you alleged others were. But I guarantee you, it's far easier to explain the concepts of circle strafing and such with discrete keys than a thumbstick as I have experimented subjecting complete novices to gaming to different controller inputs. Keyboard is an incredibly capable gaming interface.

"you neglected to even TRY to refute, which is the inherent added difficulty of game apparatus acquisition on PC"

You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices. And I guarantee you within your area there is a computer repair shop that will build a gaming rig for your for a flat fee and get a good deal on the components. I work in one of these computer repair shops not in a major city but a quiet town and I'm business contact with computer repair shops of each town over north south and southwest. You can easily find out online what components you want or you can just buy a pre-built PC.

You're an idiot too.
YES games run better on better software, BUT THERE IS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT THAT MUST BE MET. Developers have to set a minimum, that often is out of reach of people that don't constantly upgrade hardware. They don't build a game then have it magically work everywhere.

Console games have to be multiplatform to be profitable, huh? Is that why Halo, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Gears of War, God of War, Forza, and many, many others were financial failures that never got any sequels made?

Saying that PEOPLE, other than myself, are put off by keyboard controls, is not complaining. Don't try to fudge language to weasel out of being wrong.

Keyboarding IS a good means of gameplay, in many instances, but that doesnt change the fact that many people ARE INTIMIDATED BY IT and would rather use a dedicated game-controlling item. Which brings me to the last point:
"You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices"
That isnt what I said AT ALL. I was SPECIFICALLY talking about pc controllers, joysticks, and other such items. Your computer COMES with a keyboard and mouse. No one that isnt already semi-familiar with computers is going to look for replacements for them unless one breaks. And again, NOT COMPLAINING. You really need to learn what complaining is. If I were saying that I had trouble finding them, THEN it would be complaining. However, as stated previously, I use a keyboard and mouse anyway, so for me it's a non-issue.

Your last point brings up something else i FORGOT to mention, and that's the added annoyance of keeping up with all the details of PC use. You have to keep track of serial numbers, software versions, hardware specs (AND REQUIREMENTS), and lately, mountains of DRM. That's a lot of work that MANY people dont want to bother with.

oh, and one last thing... "Yet he DID, by the time you posted that Idiot allegation he had provides sources (in another reply stream_ and you haven't."
WHAT?!
Ignoring the issue of grammar, as I dont claim to have the best by any means, I don't know what the hell you're on about. Matthew doesnt need to PROVIDE sources, because he ASKED for them, in a manner that made it clear HE did not believe evidence to support the prior post existed. Which it does. That's why he's an idiot, because he chose to be self-assuredly confident that his opponent had no leg upon which to stand, without ever bothering to look at the facts.

you seem to believe I am saying console gaming is somehow BETTER than PC, and getting confused. I'm saying that many people PREFER console gaming, and listed several points as to WHY that would be, and why consoles are going to stick around for a while

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

You say that but I have yet to see any of these elitests in the thread yet you have brought them up.

Care to point them out?

Have you tried reading the thread?

Here, I'll help you out by providing an example from this page:

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the glorious PC continuing to be the only intelligent way to game.

I don't think you know what an elitist is. Believing your platform is the best is not elitism.

Maybe look it up?[/quote]

Or... you could look it up. There's a very nice definition in the post matthew replied to.

 

[Treblaine]

"Which means that they have to pick a minimum level of support, and make it work for that."

That's simply not true, games DO run better on better hardware. Not at the same level as the lowest supported hardware. Games run better on a GTX280 than on a 7800GT. Better framerate, resolution, AA, world-settings, etc.

Consoles have to be cross platform to be profitable due to how much of each target market is split between PS3 and 360, though I suppose that could change, though on PC side there is no great split as Mac owners don't seem to be the gaming type. And the differences between PS3 and 360 are HUGE, as I can attest from the explanation of how different they are on the most basic level of the OS. PS3 is Unix based, while 360 is based on Windows coding architecture. That's before even the fundamental and hardware differences of multiple small SPEs and how the memory is divided up.

"And I never complained about using a keyboard once."

Well you did:

"A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard"

You complained about how people are put off by it, I never alleged you personally were put off by it, you alleged others were. But I guarantee you, it's far easier to explain the concepts of circle strafing and such with discrete keys than a thumbstick as I have experimented subjecting complete novices to gaming to different controller inputs. Keyboard is an incredibly capable gaming interface.

"you neglected to even TRY to refute, which is the inherent added difficulty of game apparatus acquisition on PC"

You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices. And I guarantee you within your area there is a computer repair shop that will build a gaming rig for your for a flat fee and get a good deal on the components. I work in one of these computer repair shops not in a major city but a quiet town and I'm business contact with computer repair shops of each town over north south and southwest. You can easily find out online what components you want or you can just buy a pre-built PC.

You're an idiot too.
YES games run better on better software, BUT THERE IS A MINIMUM REQUIREMENT THAT MUST BE MET. Developers have to set a minimum, that often is out of reach of people that don't constantly upgrade hardware. They don't build a game then have it magically work everywhere.

Console games have to be multiplatform to be profitable, huh? Is that why Halo, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Gears of War, God of War, Forza, and many, many others were financial failures that never got any sequels made?

Saying that PEOPLE, other than myself, are put off by keyboard controls, is not complaining. Don't try to fudge language to weasel out of being wrong.

Keyboarding IS a good means of gameplay, in many instances, but that doesnt change the fact that many people ARE INTIMIDATED BY IT and would rather use a dedicated game-controlling item. Which brings me to the last point:
"You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices"
That isnt what I said AT ALL. I was SPECIFICALLY talking about pc controllers, joysticks, and other such items. Your computer COMES with a keyboard and mouse. No one that isnt already semi-familiar with computers is going to look for replacements for them unless one breaks. And again, NOT COMPLAINING. You really need to learn what complaining is. If I were saying that I had trouble finding them, THEN it would be complaining. However, as stated previously, I use a keyboard and mouse anyway, so for me it's a non-issue.

Your last point brings up something else i FORGOT to mention, and that's the added annoyance of keeping up with all the details of PC use. You have to keep track of serial numbers, software versions, hardware specs (AND REQUIREMENTS), and lately, mountains of DRM. That's a lot of work that MANY people dont want to bother with.

oh, and one last thing... "Yet he DID, by the time you posted that Idiot allegation he had provides sources (in another reply stream_ and you haven't."
WHAT?!
Ignoring the issue of grammar, as I dont claim to have the best by any means, I don't know what the hell you're on about. Matthew doesnt need to PROVIDE sources, because he ASKED for them, in a manner that made it clear HE did not believe evidence to support the prior post existed. Which it does. That's why he's an idiot, because he chose to be self-assuredly confident that his opponent had no leg upon which to stand, without ever bothering to look at the facts.

you seem to believe I am saying console gaming is somehow BETTER than PC, and getting confused. I'm saying that many people PREFER console gaming, and listed several points as to WHY that would be, and why consoles are going to stick around for a while

You are a bad forum user labelling everyone you disagree with an idiot. Attack the argument, not the fellow user.

Why your IDEAS and arguments are wrong:

You can still play most of the latest games on 2007 vintage hardware (2007 the year when PS3 came out in Europe) such as:

http://www.swtor.com/info/faq#171060
http://www.game-debate.com/games/index.php?g_id=1400&game=modern%20warfare%203

Complaining about being unable to run said games on 2003 hardware is equivalent of complaining you can't play Playstation 3 games on a Playstation 2!

"Halo, Uncharted, Resistance, Ratchet and Clank, Fable, Gears of War, God of War, Forza, and many, many others were financial failures"

All first-party games. Sony would NEVER release Uncharted on a Microsoft System, nor would Microsoft release games they produced on Sony platforms. They didn't do as well as the ycould have done if they'd been multi platform but these games are "system sellers" their purpose is to convince people to buy one system over another.

Microsoft would allow their games on Microsoft windows and they subsequently HAVE by making Fable 1 & 3 as well as Gears 1 on PC. But PC gamers hated Gears for various reasons so didn't bother with sequels. Alan Wake was exclusive, now it's on PC.

"many people ARE INTIMIDATED BY KEYBOARDS"

Prove it.

"That's a lot of work that MANY people dont want to bother with."

Yes, and you don't have to bother with it. There are affordable and even free services that do all that for you.

"without ever bothering to look at the facts."

Matthew has done more than look at the facts, he has presented them for you.

People are more than capable of PC gaming, billions of people use PCs every without any effort. The difference is console's marketing.

Consoles had an advantage with disc-based bone-simplicity but that has been exploited by excessive re-trading to make that an insufficiently viable format while PC are now arguably MORE convenient with Steam functioning like iTunes for your games.

 

[Susurrus]

SNIP

So does that mean you DO need one for multiplayer?

 

[The Lunatic]

Oh? The Luddites are finally embracing stuff we've had for years?

Oh my. Next they'll Physx and Tessellation.

 

[Aprilgold]

WALL OF QUOTES BELOW, WARNING!

Spoiler

Seeing as how so many devs WANT:
Always on DRM
Online Passes
DLC that should have been in the damn game
Digital only distribution - with no price cut to match
ect
ect

I'll probably end up skipping the Xbox720/PS4/WiiU2 if that crap happens.

Gaming is a HOBBY, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be treated like a criminal by companies that want MY money.

Screw them.

Digital Distribution isn't all bad, unless EA does it.

But, really, you want to know who's to blame for the Day 0 and back DLC and online passes? Welp, the consumer for not being smart and voting with their wallets, and its everyone's fault on this.

Honestly, if the publisher can make money off of something they will go out of their way to abuse it to their gain. Its like a used car dealer jacking up his prices, he can do it all he wishes and if people keep buying these low quality cars for high amounts of money, be damned he'll keep pushing until they notice.

Honestly I care less about the power of the consoles chips and more about the quality of their games. The one doesn't really lead to the other.

They do, unless you want more buggy games. While from a consumer standpoint you shouldn't care about what its made of as long as its doing its job to satisfaction, but it is easier to design for more open ended tech.

I guess a classic way of showing that you do need a newer generation is how much space the gun takes up in a FPS like Call of Duty. If you notice, its about 20 or 40 percent of the bottom right or left corners of the screen. Their not just doing that because it looks good, their doing it so they don't have to render whats underneath the gun on screen. It also might be the reason the knife is a button, and not a weapon that you can equip. I'd also like to point out that it is locked, on both the PC and Console at thirty frames per second, which is lower then a more acceptable sixty frames per second. I think without this trick it would be hurting to go over ten frames a second.

The Xbox 360 is so old now that it chugs when ever you play anything new on it. Holding back a generation of consoles can hurt the developers programming and making the game more then it will hurt your bottom line.

For most people I wouldn't have minded if they were against PC elitests as they are right to not like them.

Now, you on the other hand call everyone who sees PC as a better platform an elitest which is simply wrong as many people here justify their points well. I have seen enough of your posts and threads to know this.

Trying not to start a flame war here but the interesting thing to note is that a PC is indeed more capable then a console, so doesn't that make it better? The question in my question is in the word "Capable". Which is the limitation or the possibility of something, so does making many limitations found on a console seem like a foreign thing on a PC make the PC better in terms of raw hardware power?

Here, last warning on this. I AM NOT STARTING A FLAME WAR, I AM JUST ASKING MATTHEW94 PERSONAL OPINION ON THE QUESTION ABOVE, PLEASE, SOMEONE NOT RAGE-QUOTE ME TO TELL ME I'M WRONG SINCE I DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE QUESTION IN QUESTION!

do we really need a new console generation?


Just to have amrginalyl different looking Cod?

At this rate, I'm going to have to put up a giant spoiler on my whole post.

Getting a upgrade in hardware does not mean that CoD will look any different. And here's the kicker, get this... Lean in real close, GRAPHICS ARE NOT WHAT THE GAME LOOKS LIKE! I hope you caught that, because what a game looks like is a aesthetic choice, not a graphical capability.

Aesthetics is style, graphics is the pure power supporting what the aesthetics want to do.

---------------------------------------------

Jump on the PC bandwagon now and you won't be a hipster or elitist, guaranteed. I don't think Microsoft or Sony realize how important a console generation cycle is for the hardware or programming and making the titles for the system.

You can't surpass a limitation, only trick the machine into doing something it didn't want to do, and the more tricks at work mean the more possible bugs, programming errors, crashes and many other equally damaging occurrences if they don't properly iron out everything.

Like I said before, I'll say it again. Sony and Microsoft know absolutely nothing when it comes to the console generation cycle, all it knows is that if it keeps selling then it will stay on the market.

 

[Harker067]

Honestly I care less about the power of the consoles chips and more about the quality of their games. The one doesn't really lead to the other.

They do, unless you want more buggy games. While from a consumer standpoint you shouldn't care about what its made of as long as its doing its job to satisfaction, but it is easier to design for more open ended tech.

I guess a classic way of showing that you do need a newer generation is how much space the gun takes up in a FPS like Call of Duty. If you notice, its about 20 or 40 percent of the bottom right or left corners of the screen. Their not just doing that because it looks good, their doing it so they don't have to render whats underneath the gun on screen. It also might be the reason the knife is a button, and not a weapon that you can equip. I'd also like to point out that it is locked, on both the PC and Console at thirty frames per second, which is lower then a more acceptable sixty frames per second. I think without this trick it would be hurting to go over ten frames a second.

The Xbox 360 is so old now that it chugs when ever you play anything new on it. Holding back a generation of consoles can hurt the developers programming and making the game more then it will hurt your bottom line.
[/quote]

And you're probably talking to the wrong person entirely or if nothing less at a cross point. I'm actually a big fan of a number of notoriously buggy games (Vampire the masquerade bloodlines for example). The issue with frame rate 60 vs 30 is to me not a big point. To be honest I'm not a graphics junkie I don't care too much about how the game looks.

The increasing expense of making games with more realistic graphics is a bigger worry to me.
My concerns about the next console generation has more to do with the increased cost of making games hampering creativity and leading to a more play it safe market.

 

[Axyun]

I'll wait for the slimmer, quieter and functionaly neutered version of the next-gen consoles before I even bother looking at what's out.

Dreamcast was the last console I bothered buying at/close to release. Got a PS2 after it was dead and bought my first 360 a few months ago. I'll buy a PS3 for Valkyria Chronicles and one or two more titles a few years from now when the console sells for or under $100.

 

[blackrave]

Man, it seems kindergarten allowed access to internet

Sega is better
No, Nintendo is better
No, Sega
No, Nintendo
You smell like poop
[punch]
I'll tell my mom
etc.

C'mon guys (and some girls I presume) are you adults, or what?
Every platform have it's advantages and disadvantages
Consoles have advantage of being simple, you put disc in and play (after some forced updates), while on the downside it gives worse performance
PC have advantage of giving better performance, while being more complex and expensive (at least in the very beginning of console life cycle, now it isn't exactly true)

Keyboard/mouse vs. controller is argument of tastes and preferences
Yes, I myself prefer keyboard/mouse combo for gaming, but controller is better for some games
Just play last level of Psychonauts (Meat Circus) with keyboard and mouse (It was hard)
Later I replayed it with controller and it was almost cakewalk (I disagree with Mrs. Arendt- this level is ok, it simply tests all your skills that you acquired through the game)

As for new console cycle, it's about time
Old hardware of consoles (tiny RAM especially) is the main reason, why cities are enclosed in TES4 and TES5 (and it pisses me off, as I am long time TES fan)
Also, console without bluray reader is total BS (X360 I'm looking at you )

 

[Strazdas]

The indie scene on PC is flourishing, let the consoles burn for all I care. Then all those delicious exclusives can be enjoyed by a greater audience and won't be held back by archaic hardware.

Take consolles out of the equation and a lot of the games you enjoy simply wouldnt get made.

Do you have any evidence to back up your point?

Um, how about the fact that gaming PCs are STILL more expensive than consoles, and people are more willing to buy a dedicated game player than they are a computer. A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard, and since any controllers are necessarily third-party, people have to put in twice as much effort to get one that works. It's also easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics, rather than having to guess what the best average of current computing hardware amongst the masses, which is why MANY console games dont make it onto PC...

To sum up, you're an idiot.

gaming PC with the same processing power than, say, eggsbox, is infact cheaper. what we call "gaming pc" now is much more powerful, therefore it is logical that it is more expensive.
the fact that people want to buy a plug-to-tv console more than a computer is either a lack of knowledge or mental problems.
keyboard and mouse are far superior than any controller ever made. if you plug controller into PC your doing it backwards. infact people plug mouses into PS3s now. Too bad they only work in menus. OFC it is easier for developers to build on a standardized 7 year old system. that means they can just do 1/6th of the job and then claim the console cant run the rest (cough, dust514, cough). The hardware on PC is standartized enough. They seem to have no problem making cheap ports so it cant be that hard.
as for the buyers perspective, local shops always offer ready-to-work computer models that may not be 100% optimal, can be just brought home, plugged in and your ready to go.
to sum it up, well, you read your own.

 

[LGC Pominator]

You know, I don't really want to get into this whole argument, because I think that the thread has become completely derailed, but before I comment about the actual ARTICLE I just want to throw this out there:

I have a lot of fun playing Halo, Fable, Skyrim etc on my XBox 360, I also have fun on Mount and Blade: Warband and Realm of the mad god when I'm on my PC.
I personally prefer playing on my xbox because I have more fun on there playing with my friends, it is a more social experience, a part of gaming that the PC crowd doesn't seem to partake in as much.

If anyone doubts me on whether I am just a sour "console scrub" (as I have been repeatedly called whenever I try to enjoy a game of TF2) just check my profile here, I have my steam and XBL playercards listed, I have spent many hours playing on both platforms, I just have more fun on the Xbox, and there is nothing wrong with that.

On topic.

I don't think we should be really worried about the new generations, quite frankly M$ and Sony have done more than enough this gen to canonise them as good service providers who know what they are doing when they are making hardware, the Xbox live service can only improve, and anything that allows it to do that I will be happy with.

Better graphics are, of course, always a plus, I cannot wait to see what fancy next gen tech looks like, as the opportunity to play Halo 5 with even H'er D's is something that sounds amazing to me.

With regards to the indie marketplace, as some have already pointed out, some games are simply not available on live or the PSN yet, and those that are may not have sold at the rate of AAA titles, but who is really expecting them to? (with the obvious exception of the likes of Virgillio Armarndio)
I am not surprised that the sales on the PC outstrip LIVE/PSN sales, because the crowd of gamers is completely different on consoles to PC, but arty types who own consoles ARE STILL provided for on consoles, it would be far simpler for M$/Sony to have saved development costs on a digital distribution platform for indie games (and not even bother developing their own indie game development software let us not forget!) and instead funneled that money into... I dunno MOAR AAA GAMES.

I think it seems to be all or nothing with both the "All games MUST be art crowd" and the "PC is the ONLY way to play games!" crowd, the fact that a platform is there for younger indie dev's to produce and, in some cases, flourish on the live marketplace is more than enough for me, look at Ska studios, developer of "the dishwasher" and "the dishwasher: vampire smile", two very simple, very FUN games that were one of the early success stories of the Xbox live indie games development platform, that success would not have happened if these programs were not made available and M$ did not go into the effort to pimp it on their platform as much as they did.

Simply put, people should be having fun, if they are not, then they are doing this whole "gaming" thing wrong. That is why Braid didn't sell as well on live as it did to the PC crowd, people who pay for games on live, pay for a fun experience, Braid was not close to that, the sort of people who would pay money for an experience like Braid, who would rather saw off their nether regions and cauterise the wound with an overheated motherboard chip, primarily populate steam, and by extenion the escapist