New Console Generation Brings Fear

[Treblaine]

*Comes into thread expecting PC Gaming circle jerk* Never change, PC Gamers...

Knows someone will call a resounding call for a change in the status quo of console mediocrity dominance a "PC Gaming circle jerk".

*Knows that someone will call standardied platform which allows the market to function in any way shape or form by having a defined number of people at a defined level of power "console mediocrity"

You really like digging that hole, don't you?

"allows the market to function in any way shape or form"

Are you honestly arrogant enough to say that PC gaming and Mobile-phone gaming doesn't function in 'any way, shape or form' because it doesn't have "standardied platform at a defined level of power"

Because PC gaming is very real and very lucrative.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/annual-pc-market-worth-11bn/013027

And not jsut PC gaming, iOS, iPhone and Android phones have a burgeoning games marketplace to spite the hugely varied and open source (android) hardware specs.

I don't know if it's ignorance on your part or denialism.

 

[ablac]

This does sound stupid but no I dont because a pub/dev would never admit to a game being supported by sales on one platform. However I do think that, considering the sheer cost of games to make today, the PC alone could not support a large number of AAA and even some AA games. Whether you yourself specifically play those titles is ancillary as many PC gamers do. Therefore without the purchases on Console a PC title wouldnt be made because the game wouldnt exist or at least not nearly as much cash would be thrown at it. This is not to say the PC does not support games on its own, as it does with titles such as Tribes, im simply saying games we enjoy wouldnt be around, at least as good as they are and numerous as they are.

http://www.worldometers.info/computers/

This says that there are over 1 billion PC's in use in 2008 and that will have grown quite a bit since then.

Steam has 4 million active users nearly all the time and over 40 million active user accounts, which shows that PCs could support those games seeing as there are many gamers not on steam.

Sheer cost, let's take that myth apart.

1# Developers set their own budgets, if you don't have the cash then cut some things, don't do such shiny graphics, people won't mind.

2# Going on PC only would be cheaper as you only have 1 platform to develop for.

3# Things like crowd funding, kickstarter etc happen on PC which enable projects like FTL to take place which couldn't happen on consoles.

You say most of the cash comes from consoles, if you actually did some looking you will find that much more money is spent by PC gamers, profit margins are much higher on PC gamers support developers more than on consoles.

Let's look at a few games

Minecraft: 5.3 million sales and counting

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/07/20/cthulhu-saves-the-world-pc-sales-smash-xbox-live/

"Cthulhu Saves The World PC sales smash Xbox Live"

Cthulhu Saves the World and the superbly named Breath of Death VII have made more in less than a week on Steam than they did in more than a year on Xbox Live,

http://www.overclock.net/a/blizzard-held-a-press-conference-e3-55-gross-profit-margin-of-wow

Blizzard say you make 60% profit on digital and 20% profit on discs, that shows that PC gaming is more profitable than consoles as consoles are disc dominated and PC is mostly digital.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/97705-pc-gaming-vs-consoles-the-infographic

This article shows how PC overtook consoles on revenue in 2010 and most likely ignores steam which doesn't reveal sales figures.

I cant be bothered to do research because im lazy like that and sorry. I will ask one thing though. How come the pc market gets the worst deal when it comes to multi platform games (normally) and is viewed as an afterthought with games releasing later and bad ports and most of the fanfair being on the console version? Id say its because its a significantly less valuable market. at least to these games. I never said it couldnt and im going to adapt my point to say that the main fanfare is around console and thus i believe most games are made for console and then pc as an afterthought. If anything else was true then devs (not indie, its just easier for them to release on their because its more direct with consumers and steam is a much better distribution method for smaller indie titles. Seriously that is the only reason and I wish peolpe would realise that they are (for the most part) just as interested in profit as EA or Activision. Case in point Minecraft. Notch is a freaking multi millionaire yet didnt pay his staff for minecon and still charges a game which is nothing without mods made by the community and servers paid for by the community at an extortionate 20 euro. A game which made him what he is. To top it all of the majority of the content in the later stages were simply adapted mods.) would make PC the big platform to work for rather than fight over console exclusives and give more attention to the console versions of games. The kickstater stuff happens on computers but not on pc gaming. Console gamers can donate too plus thats a small amount of money compared to what I was describing. Of course PC gamers spend more. They can afford to be PC gamers. It aint cheap. and on the indie games stuff for xbox. It is a great idea with some great titles. However it is handled poorly. It gets no attention and is hidden away. The majority of the stuff on there is trash at the moment because its full of knock offs and simply poor titles. Because of this it is avoided and never really checked out. Because of this no good titles go on because its not worth doing. See the cycle. Plus Cthulu saved the world suffered from some other company having its fans downvote the game to relagate it away from their game as it was a competitor. PLus the games had worked up a lot of steam and got coverage from people such as Total Biscuit. Because of the wider indie market on pc, pc gamers are more willing to give these things ago whilst poor handling has left these things out of console gamers eyes. Most dont even hear about them. This is getting over blown and I should have stopped ages ago but my point ultimately is this. If pc gaming was indeed the bigger market then why is it not treated as such? I dont want to make a fight over this because division is bad for gamers when the real enemy (pubs/devs legislators ect who mistreat us) gets away while we argue but you did say let em die and I wont take that lying down. Cooperation not division.

 

[Treblaine]

Maybe if P.C. elitists want to be called "the master race" they should start acting like one instead of 13-year-old fanboys who fly into a fit of rage every time someone mentions the world "console".

I dunno man, PC gamers seem to consistently act amost exactly like the last group of people who called themselves the "Master race", if you know what I mean.

Godwin's Law!

PC gamers are absolutely nothing like those sort, except that they are hated by console gamers almost as much as a reasonable person would hate the Nazis.

 

[Danny91]

Breaking News: Things changing frightens and angers people.

More at 11.

 

[Treblaine]

Maybe if P.C. elitists want to be called "the master race" they should start acting like one instead of 13-year-old fanboys who fly into a fit of rage every time someone mentions the world "console".

I dunno man, PC gamers seem to consistently act amost exactly like the last group of people who called themselves the "Master race", if you know what I mean.

Godwin's Law!

PC gamers are absolutely nothing like those sort, except that they are hated by console gamers almost as much as a reasonable person would hate the Nazis.

Ooh, other similarities - absolutely no capacity to take a joke, and delusions of persecution. You're on a roll.

You allege PC gamers have "absolutely no capacity to take a joke" when you don't realise that PC Gamers coined the term "PC Master Race" AS A JOKE that people opposed to PC gaming took literally!

And what does humourlessness have to do with fascism? That seem more like a nationalist attack on German stereotype of being humourless.

PC gamers obviously can take a joke for the number of jokes played on them like the GoG foreclosure joke/marketing ploy and all the jokes by Gaben about Steam. Hell, we call Gabe Newall Gaben

Delusions of Persecution? From how YOU and others are acting in this thread about the mere suggestion of consoles being like PC gaming. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Face it, you blew the argument already with invoking Godwin's Law and you're only digging yourself a bigger hole. Just amit you were wrong to exploit the reputation of a horrific part of history for a shameless attack.

 

[loc978]

I for one will be following any new announcement just to see what direction they push their hardware. If the last two generational pushes are any indicator, Sony will be developing around a new form of media with a higher storage capacity (per layer = 4.7GB->27GB->???) while Microsoft pushes hardware concerns off onto the lowest bidder and focuses on marketing (the way they've been doing things since 1995, hence this [http://theoatmeal.com/comics/sell_generation]). As for Nintendo... well, they're a quirky one. I wouldn't want to try to predict their next move.

I'm still rather put off that BR-RW media hasn't completely overshadowed DVD-RW media yet. Maybe this console push will move that forward. I've been waiting five years already for the proliferation of 27 to 54GB blank media, dammit (really tired of 4.7GB discs. seriously, that's tiny nowadays. It would take 218 of em to back up my middling capacity storage HDD... and I bought it in 2008!). It had to come during the tail end of two wars and the resulting recession, though.

As for game dev fears... warranted, but unavoidable. Gotten comfortable this cycle? Well, time to shake things up. Unfortunately, that means some of the smaller studios may shut down... but the people who work for them will go on. There will be other studios that want experienced talent from past successful projects.

 

[CarlMin]

The best thing for all gamers would be for Microsoft and Sony's stronghold on the American industry to end with this generation of consoles. We don't need another generation of cheap hardware locking players and developers alike to inferior systems for another ten years.

And this is not me being a PC fanboy, this is me stating the fact that closed, dedicated consoles is holding us all back.

 

[scorptatious]

The indie scene on PC is flourishing, let the consoles burn for all I care. Then all those delicious exclusives can be enjoyed by a greater audience and won't be held back by archaic hardware.

I find this funny considering your avatar is from a console game.

OT: I can see why people would be worried about this. And I can also understand the fear of producers sticking to proven developers rather than newer developers.

As for me? I'll probably get at least one of the consoles. Of course that'll depend on how much it'll cost and what kinds of games I should look forward too. Until then, I'm happy with my PS3, 360, and Wii.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

The indie scene on PC is flourishing, let the consoles burn for all I care. Then all those delicious exclusives can be enjoyed by a greater audience and won't be held back by archaic hardware.

Take consolles out of the equation and a lot of the games you enjoy simply wouldnt get made.

Do you have any evidence to back up your point?

Um, how about the fact that gaming PCs are STILL more expensive than consoles, and people are more willing to buy a dedicated game player than they are a computer. A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard, and since any controllers are necessarily third-party, people have to put in twice as much effort to get one that works. It's also easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics, rather than having to guess what the best average of current computing hardware amongst the masses, which is why MANY console games dont make it onto PC...

To sum up, you're an idiot.

 

[rapidoud]

Can't even begin to say how dumb Matthew's comments are.

All 1 billion PCs in the world can apparently play every new game released every year (I know the majority CANNOT play skyrim).

'PC only is cheaper as you only have 1 platform'.

Except then you have to have a ridiculous amount of bug-testing and compatibility-testing that the costs far outweigh 1 console alone.

'Crowd funding, Kickstarter...'

That's equally as dumb as saying consoles can only have p2p, it's just not true.

Let's look at a few triple A games:

MW3, more than 10 times the sales of PC on xbox ALONE.

You are talking about INDIE GAMES, that are 1-off success stories, how many indie titles can you name off the top of your head that aren't success stories like that? I can name many more unsuccessful ones, and you're talking about peoples lives ruined as they wasted that time.

Blizzard as a source? HAH. They have all their games digital online-only now, so why exactly would CDs sell more, pray tell?

They also have incredibly intrusive DRM and hate used sales, but I prefer to be able to sell my games 50 years down the time when they're classics of the industry.

But then ag ain, you're one of the few that thinks 'PC gaming master race' is actually true.

I don't exactly understand why people think 'consoles are so evulz' when most if not all console players have gaming PCs (able to play at least 4 year old games) as well.

Archaic hardware holding things back? I think you'll find that not only is it easier to scale textures DOWN than it is UP (AKA make it look pretty then scale it back for PC and consoles), and developers have to come up with increasingly ingenius methods to get the most bang for buck (look at Mass Effect to ME3, same hardware), something that the PC has since lost in the last 10 years compared to the 80s or 90s.

Then again, everyone else is laughing at gamers who bicker about the most pedantic things instead of enjoying the hobby for what it is, and thus we are all viewed as children (especially me for feeding the trolls).

 

[Treblaine]

Maybe if P.C. elitists want to be called "the master race" they should start acting like one instead of 13-year-old fanboys who fly into a fit of rage every time someone mentions the world "console".

I dunno man, PC gamers seem to consistently act amost exactly like the last group of people who called themselves the "Master race", if you know what I mean.

Godwin's Law!

PC gamers are absolutely nothing like those sort, except that they are hated by console gamers almost as much as a reasonable person would hate the Nazis.

Ooh, other similarities - absolutely no capacity to take a joke, and delusions of persecution. You're on a roll.

You allege PC gamers have "absolutely no capacity to take a joke" when you don't realise that PC Gamers coined the term "PC Master Race" AS A JOKE that people opposed to PC gaming took literally!

And what does humourlessness have to do with fascism? That seem more like a nationalist attack on German stereotype of being humourless.

PC gamers obviously can take a joke for the number of jokes played on them like the GoG foreclosure joke/marketing ploy and all the jokes by Gaben about Steam. Hell, we call Gabe Newall Gaben

Delusions of Persecution? From how YOU and others are acting in this thread about the mere suggestion of consoles being like PC gaming. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Face it, you blew the argument already with invoking Godwin's Law and you're only digging yourself a bigger hole. Just amit you were wrong to exploit the reputation of a horrific part of history for a shameless attack.

Ooh. Ooh. Adding that actions are intended to be ironic despite you clearly believing every single word you said as can be inferred from you claiming that the supposed "inferiorities" you judged are a threat or obstacle to you, and then following it up by a strawman argument about the other side. Man, you're really helping me make this comparison stronger.

And I was talking about Neo-Nazi skinheads you idiot. A notoriously humourless group. And I can only assume you mistake "fear" with "telling PC gamers to shut the fuck up, nobody cares how superior they think they are".

Of course it's ironic, how could you not get the irony?!?!

"despite you clearly believing every single word"

Now that's a straw man argument. PC Gaming "master race" is in no way a racial statement, it's an obvious joke for how anyone of any race can get into PC gaming regardless of race, online everyone can be without race or gender nor nationality, it's just the bare you. The actual Nazi allegations are desperate and shallow semantic ploy.

Yes, consoles gaming IS inferior to PC gaming. That is IN NO WAY the moral equivalent of dictating that all non-aryans are sub-human and should be enslaved or exterminated, i.e. nazi beliefs. Which is what you have alleged against PC gamers and to spite repeated prompts you have refused to retract.

"a strawman argument about the other side."

Nope. I never lied about what your argument nor stance was. Please point where I did and I will amend it and apologise.

"And I was talking about Neo-Nazi skinheads you idiot."

Oh, you say I'm an idiot for assuming the Nazis were the last group to significantly operate under the true belief in the "Master Race". If that is what you meant, that isn't helping your outrageous argument, now saying benign and playful PC gamers are like Neo-Nazis street thugs rather than Nazis from the 1930-40's.

And I can only assume you mistake "fear" with "telling PC gamers to shut the fuck up, nobody cares how superior they think they are".

Number 1: WHY would anyone assume that? Other than to convenience your argument?

Number 2: the very TITLE of this thread is "New Console Generation Brings FEAR" when it describes common PC features becoming standard on consoles where it is explicit and unambiguous. Not a hint on my part nor OP's part of saying this fear is an arrogant dismissal of PC Gaming's advantages.

Number 3: if you didn't care, what are you doing right now going on this great spiel? I think you DO care but are afraid of change, of progress, of changing the status quo. And are lashing out with fallacious arguments and exploitative insults.

In summary: if console gaming wants to keep living in the past with its disc-retail based model, well be it on their heads, it is not obstacle nor threat to PC gaming, be sure of that. I just know the old model far more benefits the shops and publishers than the actual artists, designers and programmers who actually MAKE the game! I've heard from so many developers the huge advantages of going all-digital yet console gamers are so resistant, they don't seem to know (and many not even care) what they are standing in the way of.

If anything, call me a communist. Not a Nazi. Because that's what I and PC gamers are arguing for, a better deal for the little guy and taking out the big corporate control.

 

[General Vengeance]

Afraid? The last console system I purchased was Intellivision back in 1980. PC is the only way I'll game, the gaming industry can thumb it's nose at the PC all it likes, but when they want my money again, I'll be waiting right here.

I'd like to see a new NHL hockey game for the PC soon, but it can wait. EA could get off it's ass though and go make me a sandwhich, no I don't want any games from you guys, the sandwhich will be fine.

 

[Treblaine]

Um, how about the fact that gaming PCs are STILL more expensive than consoles, and people are more willing to buy a dedicated game player than they are a computer. A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard, and since any controllers are necessarily third-party, people have to put in twice as much effort to get one that works. It's also easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics, rather than having to guess what the best average of current computing hardware amongst the masses, which is why MANY console games dont make it onto PC...

To sum up, you're an idiot.

I don't know where people get off on calling PC gamers arrogant when those who dismiss it sign off with crap like:

"To sum up, you're an idiot."

Especially when the substance of their own argument is so weak.

"easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics"

Except when you have three radically and totally different hardware types between Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii... the PC version is the easiest to develop for out of all of those. And PC IS standardised, it's just varying power. You don't need to code a game to run faster on better hardware found in PC, it naturally does so. Better graphics card = more frames per second.

In fact very FEW console games don't make it to PC, a tiny proportion once you exclude the first-party console games as of course Sony would never allow Uncharted 3 on a Microsoft Windows PC nor in fact anything other than a Playstation 3/Vita.

And then to complain about keyboard? Well it's a matter of familiarity, to the novice a keyboard is much more familiar an interface than a gamepad and mouse has inherent advantages as a proportional input.