New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

[Tien Shen]

I've always wanted a female heavy, so whatever hangups I have I'm going to shelf.

I love her.

Also Kotaku can shut up. Even (most of) tumblr seems to like her.

So we get a character made to combat complaints by the SJWs... and how do they take it I wonder?

Well going by Kotaku's article... The first comment you see is someone complaining:

https://archive.today/wOu3K

There's just no pleasing these cunts.

Of course not, give them an inch and they'll take your whole arm off. Soon they'll be demanding that they change Widowmaker to show no cleavage and have a cleft lip. Mark my words, this isn't the end of this.

 

[Haerthan]

Outside of that heinous neon color side cut I like her design. Not a big fan of how much they're promoting this fairly innocuous detail in order to get their ding slobbered by the usual crowd, it comes across as pandering. Nothing to do with the design though, just how they promoted it.

"WAh Wah Wah Wah. I am not being pandered to". That is exactly how you sound like. Seriously. You are already being pandered to by the designs of the males and most of the females in the game. Besides Blizzard said they wanted diversity, received criticism and LISTENED TO IT. So stop your crying.

Holy shit, you could not project anymore right now. I have no idea how you could misconstrue my fairly ambivalent post as "crying". You sound rather butthurt yourself actually.

"...ding slobbered by the usual crowd, it comes across as pandering". DO I need to underline and bold it as well? Cause I ain't in the mood. And i actually like the character, even if she's Russian. But like I said, you had to put the whole "ding slobbered" thing. If you didn't I would have let it slide. But nope, you had to completely undermine your entire argument.

Also accusing others of projecting is usually a really stupid tactic. Doesn't work on educated people or anyone with half a brain.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I mean, look at the blatant tumblr hair cut

WTF does tumblr have to do with that style???
Were you even conceived by the time Punk/Ska music was gaining momentum in the 80's??
your own avatar has pink hair ffs....

EDIT: I just googled "Tumblr Hairstyles" ... they're all long and wavey / braided Pagan/wikkin hippy styles ... EVEN ON THE DUDES... lol, that's the OPPOSITE of this character's punk style

Very much aware of the punk style, thank you. I actually find it pretty attractive.

But.

If you honestly don't see a resurgence of the trend in certain social groups, who frequent Tumblr and act as petulant 'megaphones' pushing for their definition of 'diversity' (I'm all for diversity. I want diversity. This character in Overwatch? Perfectly fine! Yay! Bring on more stuff, Blizz. Character variety is good, especially for rapidly discerning one character from another in a game like this.) then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Further, I don't appreciate this new group appropriating the culture of another.

Shameful behavior on their part. So, so very shameful.

snip.

obviously some "alternative" look WOOMAN is pandering to SJW's and therefore unacceptable its not like games EVER pander to gamer bros...nuh uh that's what we call "normal"

Which is why I said I was cool with it (not that I need to be in order for it to happen or be acceptable), but it IS naked pandering. I mean, they've made the character 'as a response to criticism' and, I quote,

And we just want you to know that we're listening and we're trying hard and we hope Zarya is a step in the right direction.

The same way that a buxom, barely clothed female is pandering to the sweaty 13-year-old demographic (ie. men in general)...this is pandering to a different audience. WHICH IS FIIIIIIIIIINE.

Nothing inherently wrong with it at all. Just, you know, recognize it for what it is?

 

[Nazulu]

I had no idea a Russian muscular women was a stereotype. Jeez, you just can't win, can you. It makes more sense with stereotypes because there is a reason they exist.

Maybe we should make a list of stereotypes so they know what to avoid. Has anyone ever done that?

 

[Groverfield]

I'm all for this, except her legs look far too long. Like, I'm for long legged women, but it seems like if she were to sit in the N position, her knees would rise above her head, which is past stylization and into the uncanny valley.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

I had no idea a Russian muscular women was a stereotype. Jeez, you just can't win, can you. It makes more sense with stereotypes because there is a reason they exist.

Maybe we should make a list of stereotypes so they know what to avoid. Has anyone ever done that?

Well, the badass russian trope is a thing...the body builder bit isn't as prominent?

It's not all that exploited with the female side of the coin, but it does happen. Not that I'm complaining as there's nothing wrong with tropes. >_>

 

[Redryhno]

Outside of that heinous neon color side cut I like her design. Not a big fan of how much they're promoting this fairly innocuous detail in order to get their ding slobbered by the usual crowd, it comes across as pandering. Nothing to do with the design though, just how they promoted it.

"WAh Wah Wah Wah. I am not being pandered to". That is exactly how you sound like. Seriously. You are already being pandered to by the designs of the males and most of the females in the game. Besides Blizzard said they wanted diversity, received criticism and LISTENED TO IT. So stop your crying.

Read what was said again buddy. It is not that there's pandering, it's that people threw fits over it, and were rewarded. It's not a healthy relationship in any way, shape, or form when that behavior gets almost immediate results along with an apology. Not to mention, Mcree was not given as much stage space, which is a failing of this that one character is given this much attention because of people that complained. Then there's the somewhat hilarious group picture they've got on the site right now, where this "diverse" body type is, with the exception of the arms, the same basic size and proportions as Symmetra, one of the two main ones people were raising hell about in the beginning of this.

Seriously, what is so hard about being respectful with criticism these days? Why do people have to whine about it instead of, you know, submitting examples, or maybe waiting a bit before condemning the game for the ALPHA designs. This is a game that's not even in beta yet, League and Dota had a few months before the starting roster was added to(technially years in Dota's case if I remember right), and honestly? They're pretty damn diverse body types, and roles(personally I'm of the mind that League's got a better range, but that may jsut be because I can only play Bounty Hunter, Invoker, and Timbersaw and so don't really play Dota all that much.)

Also, straight mostly white guy reporting in, don't really care for pretty much any of the designs so far in Overwatch, outside of Hanzo, Bastion, and Pharah(Gatchaman-inspired uniforms are great), so guess what? The majority of the designs are not pandering to me in any way, shape, or form.

 

[Haerthan]

I mean, look at the blatant tumblr hair cut

WTF does tumblr have to do with that style???
Were you even conceived by the time Punk/Ska music was gaining momentum in the 80's??
your own avatar has pink hair ffs....

EDIT: I just googled "Tumblr Hairstyles" ... they're all long and wavey / braided Pagan/wikkin hippy styles ... EVEN ON THE DUDES... lol, that's the OPPOSITE of this character's punk style

Very much aware of the punk style, thank you. I actually find it pretty attractive.

But.

If you honestly don't see a resurgence of the trend in certain social groups, who frequent Tumblr and act as petulant 'megaphones' pushing for their definition of 'diversity' (I'm all for diversity. I want diversity. This character in Overwatch? Perfectly fine! Yay! Bring on more stuff, Blizz. Character variety is good, especially for rapidly discerning one character from another in a game like this.) then I'm not sure what to tell you.

Further, I don't appreciate this new group appropriating the culture of another.

Shameful behavior on their part. So, so very shameful.

"FEMINISTS ARE COMING TO TAKE AWAY MY GAMES") and "IM NOT BEING PANDERED TO HERE". Yes you are for diversity. Sure. Then you go on to disparage people by saying they "appropriate the culture of another". Newsflash dude. Women were part of gaming from the very beginning of the industry, both as consumers and developers. The criticism that we see nowadays is just the diverse communities in gaming just asking for a better representation than the quintessential "white grizzled male with a gruff voice who gargles rocks".

But you are all for the status quo. Have fun with it. Cause I sure as hell won't. Also a little reminder what the status quo looks like : Gamergate. (Come at me brodudes. I am ready).

 

[EternallyBored]

I had no idea a Russian muscular women was a stereotype. Jeez, you just can't win, can you. It makes more sense with stereotypes because there is a reason they exist.

Maybe we should make a list of stereotypes so they know what to avoid. Has anyone ever done that?

Not so much a stereotype as a trope that existed primarily in 80's era cold war movies and comic books, especially action movies and movies targeted towards teens. It's not super common, but it's popped up a couple times, usually as a villain, and generally meant to be unattractive and generally kind of a big dumb bruiser stereotype. Usually such a character is Russian, but it isn't necessary as characters like Bruno from DC comics is pretty much this trope to a T except she's a neo-nazi instead of Russian. I believe one of the villains from the Kick Ass comics series also fulfilled this trope, but I haven't checked.

I haven't seen it used in a long time, so it's kind of a dead archetype at this point.

There's also the fact that such characters are almost always aggressive villains, so with Zarya's current sparse backstory, they seem to be trying to subvert the stereotype by making her a good guy. If she isn't overtly aggressive, that would be another subversion of the archetype as well.

As for stereotypes, while we should be careful using them, that doesn't mean they should all be eliminated, especially for stereotypes that are based in media rather than real life. Nobody actually thinks Russian women are all giant bodybuilders, it was just an archetype created in a time when the Soviet Union was a convenient antagonist for Western movie and comic protagonists to face down.

 

[Tsun Tzu]

"FEMINISTS ARE COMING TO TAKE AWAY MY GAMES") and "IM NOT BEING PANDERED TO HERE".

Um.

Spoiler: Wut?

Yes you are for diversity. Sure. Then you go on to disparage people by saying they "appropriate the culture of another". Newsflash dude. Women were part of gaming from the very beginning of the industry, both as consumers and developers. The criticism that we see nowadays is just the diverse communities in gaming just asking for a better representation than the quintessential "white grizzled male with a gruff voice who gargles rocks".

Note the context of the post.

I'm talking about the hair and their having 'appropriated' it from punk culture. I thought I was using appropriate levels of transparent sarcasm about it with that additional 'So, so very shameful' bit, but apparently not?

But you are all for the status quo. Have fun with it. Cause I sure as hell won't. Also a little reminder what the status quo looks like : Gamergate. (Come at me brodudes. I am ready).

You seem to have some sort of axe to grind here, muh good sir. Perhaps step away for a bit?

Get some tea with a bit of chamomile/honey?
Perhaps a nice crêpe?

 

[Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)]

a metaphor for the thread right now

Spoiler

Yea.. I'm just going to a less crazy part of the forums now. see you later
(runs as fast as I can)

 

[Haerthan]

Outside of that heinous neon color side cut I like her design. Not a big fan of how much they're promoting this fairly innocuous detail in order to get their ding slobbered by the usual crowd, it comes across as pandering. Nothing to do with the design though, just how they promoted it.

"WAh Wah Wah Wah. I am not being pandered to". That is exactly how you sound like. Seriously. You are already being pandered to by the designs of the males and most of the females in the game. Besides Blizzard said they wanted diversity, received criticism and LISTENED TO IT. So stop your crying.

Read what was said again buddy. It is not that there's pandering, it's that people threw fits over it, and were rewarded. It's not a healthy relationship in any way, shape, or form when that behavior gets almost immediate results along with an apology. Not to mention, Mcree was not given as much stage space, which is a failing of this that one character is given this much attention because of people that complained. Then there's the somewhat hilarious group picture they've got on the site right now, where this "diverse" body type is, with the exception of the arms, the same basic size and proportions as Symmetra, one of the two main ones people were raising hell about in the beginning of this.

Seriously, what is so hard about being respectful with criticism these days? Why do people have to whine about it instead of, you know, submitting examples, or maybe waiting a bit before condemning the game for the ALPHA designs. This is a game that's not even in beta yet, League and Dota had a few months before the starting roster was added to(technially years in Dota's case if I remember right), and honestly? They're pretty damn diverse body types, and roles(personally I'm of the mind that League's got a better range, but that may jsut be because I can only play Bounty Hunter, Invoker, and Timbersaw and so don't really play Dota all that much.)

Also, straight mostly white guy reporting in, don't really care for pretty much any of the designs so far in Overwatch, outside of Hanzo, Bastion, and Pharah, so guess what? The majority of the designs are not pandering to me in any way, shape, or form.

Ok one thing we gotta clarify here: BLIZZARD SAID IT WANTED TO BE DIVERSE AND THAT IT WAS OPEN TO CRITICISM. They received said criticism and acted on it. Is it that fucking hard to get that? Seriously? Christ the schooling system outside of Europe and Far East Asia seems to be fucking failing if reading comprehension isn't taught anymore.

Also last I checked the criticism sent to Blizzard was pretty much respectful. Oh and criticizing after the Alpha? After most of the development is more or less done? Yea good job buddy. You criticize when it is in development so that the BS and bugs don't make it Anthe final product. That is how criticism works. Oh yea the bodies are diverse FOR THE MALES. OTherwise for the women it was the same thin supermodel with exxagerated hips. So yea people criticized it, Blizzard listened.

And congratulations: you don't like some of the designs. Except for Pharah, who has the body type of a supermodel, except in armour. Way to prove your not being pandered to buddy, since you still like some of the designs. But when people criticize other people for better designs : OH SJWs aren't happy. Oh they will take a mile if you give them a finger. And on and on and on. Guess what buddy. Nobody is coming to take away your games (except maybe ISIS/ISIL?IS), nobody is condemning you for playing videogames (but for HARASSMENT, if you do that shit) and gaming is now mainstream, where the industry is making BILLIONS. The "ideological crusade" is nothing more then other people asking for better representation, instead of just playing the same "grizzled white male who gargles rocks".

And I am seriously tired of being respectful. The Escapist is going down the shitter ever since GG started, Archon is hiring people who at best wouldn't have a job in the real world (gaming journalism, what a joke, always has been always will be) and most of the talent that kept me here is gone. And Yahtzee, well you know how it is, too much of a good thing can spoil. Although the Escapist done goofed when they cancelled the Rhymedown and Uncivil War. Seriously their biggest moneymakers collaborated and made awesome shit.

 

[Haerthan]

Note the context of the post.

I'm talking about the hair and their having 'appropriated' it from punk culture. I thought I was using appropriate levels of transparent sarcasm about it with that additional 'So, so very shameful' bit, but apparently not?

If you were I apologize. Sarcasm is really hard to detect, especially when I am tired. But I still believe the idea of "appropriating a culture" (pffft remind me to really fucking slap the person that came up with it, most likely a Tumblerite idiot who hasnt actually read proper feminist books).

 

[BX3]

Blizzard: "So we're going for more respectful and diverse representations of women in our new TF2 simulator"
Internet: "You're full of shit"
Blizzard: "Pcht. Okay...."

-----

Pretty neat addition. The only thing I'm wondering is did they create her because they had her in their back pocket and just didn't reveal her or use her for whatever reason, or was she actually created solely as a response to the criticism? If it's the latter, while that's pretty cool of them, and I do like when companies listen/internet dissenters are proven wrong, I really have to wonder what adding her after the fact could do to the balance of the game. There's also the worry that she may be a bit too close to another character in the game that I'm sure is a tank. Design-wise, I'm skeptical is all.

Eh, the game's not even out yet; they probably know what they're doing. Now if you excuse me, I need to really consider whether or not I should read the comments in this thread. Its 6 pages long, which means one of 3 things.

In other news: I don't care how "non-unique" his design looks. McCree looks badaaaaasssss!

 

[ki11joyace]

But you are all for the status quo. Have fun with it. Cause I sure as hell won't. Also a little reminder what the status quo looks like : Gamergate. (Come at me brodudes. I am ready).

You seem to have some sort of axe to grind here, muh good sir. Perhaps step away for a bit?

Get some tea with a bit of chamomile/honey?
Perhaps a nice crêpe?

Is he saying Gamergate is "dudebros?" How long do you think it will be before he realizes Escapist has been hiring pro-GG writers? Including a female pro-GG writer. kek.

 

[walrusaurus]

i find it hard to care about this. i can play as a giant bionic gorilla with sweet specs. Who cares about the puny human options.