Wait...McCree? As in...Mad Dog McCree [http://www.gamefaqs.com/arcade/568200-mad-dog-mccree]?
Was that intentional or is this an Easter Egg?
Was that intentional or is this an Easter Egg?
Haha, I think it's cute that you think people would be okay with it...Cavouku said:To put another voice in the echo chamber, I think her design is overall well done. Obviously it's first person, but judging by the little animations of her, she's well defined in both appearance, movement, and (seemingly) gameplay. Kudos, looks fun.
On the political side of things, well... I'm not really sure there needed to be a political side to it, I suppose. I don't see how the bulky Russian female is really breaking open the diversity-sauce, and as others have mentioned, she's still rather attractive (I'm not much for muscly girls, but she has what I'd say is an adorable face, and I'm good with the hair). And that's not inherently a bad thing, I don't think.
Now if Blizzard wants to put more diverse characters in their game, go nuts. It looks like it's the kind of game where a bunch of radical character designs from across the spectrum of whatever spectrum everyone's got themselves in a tuss over will fly without much genuine complaint. But don't make this character your flagship for diversity, Blizzard. Just say it's a new character in the game, and I think we'll be okay.
Here's a fun little challenge for whatever game developer may stumble across it: make a paraplegic pansexual half-black-half-asian transgendered obese anorexic (technically speaking, not an oxymoron) bipolarguywomanintersex from Antarctica, and don't wave it around like you're the most inclusive thing since Lord Byron's bedsheets. Just have the character in the game. Make little cues like dialogue or pick-ups or something explain the non-visible components. Don't tell us. Show us.
Let us play it out. I think we'll be okay with that (for the most part). I think that's what made Bill from The Last of Us so memorable (to me, anyway); he wasn't trying to be a quota-requirement, checkbox, flagship, or anything other than himself.
I dunno. I'm not trying to be down on anyone, really, but I've always been a fan of the more implicit style of character exploration, rather than explicit announcements and such.
Go look at the Facebook comments on this very article. I dare you.Gatlank said:Really! I'm okay with her. Well... Change the hair and i'm okay with her!TheRealCJ said:Funny, I've seen more griping about how the "SJWs have won waaaaaah!"Genocidicles said:So we get a character made to combat complaints by the SJWs... and how do they take it I wonder?
Well going by Kotaku's article... The first comment you see is someone complaining:
https://archive.today/wOu3K
There's just no pleasing these cunts.
You asked how it could be a problem. I don't know you personally, so how can I claim anything about you, you're anonymous.erttheking said:It's a good thing I'm not expecting people to see the same thing I am. Seriously man, you just go off on these tangents making claims to counter points that I never made.inmunitas said:Well it becomes a problem when you expect people to see those characters in the same way you do, with real people they have agency so you have at least some element of proof that everyone is able to agree on, where as with fictional characters you're basically creating a belief system/ideology/religion.erttheking said:And this is a problem how? People see different things in fictional characters? People see different things in real people too. I fail to see the problem.inmunitas said:Snip
There's also one that seems to be complaining she isn't diverse enough (of course he could be being sarcastic).TheRealCJ said:Go look at the Facebook comments on this very article. I dare you.Gatlank said:Really! I'm okay with her. Well... Change the hair and i'm okay with her!TheRealCJ said:Funny, I've seen more griping about how the "SJWs have won waaaaaah!"Genocidicles said:So we get a character made to combat complaints by the SJWs... and how do they take it I wonder?
Well going by Kotaku's article... The first comment you see is someone complaining:
https://archive.today/wOu3K
There's just no pleasing these cunts.
Then where the heck did the "Expecting everyone to agree with you" thing come from? No one here has made that argument or anything close to it. It's not relevant.inmunitas said:You asked how it could be a problem. I don't know you personally, so how can I claim anything about you, you're anonymous.erttheking said:It's a good thing I'm not expecting people to see the same thing I am. Seriously man, you just go off on these tangents making claims to counter points that I never made.inmunitas said:Well it becomes a problem when you expect people to see those characters in the same way you do, with real people they have agency so you have at least some element of proof that everyone is able to agree on, where as with fictional characters you're basically creating a belief system/ideology/religion.erttheking said:And this is a problem how? People see different things in fictional characters? People see different things in real people too. I fail to see the problem.inmunitas said:Snip
What's wrong with it is we don't get skinny, we get one specific bodytype that isn't even remotely like what a majority of women look like.Bob_McMillan said:I've never really gotten people's problems with "skinny", and by skinny I mean perfectly healthy, body types. Why should they have to put in fat or ugly people? I get that it's wrong to make fun of people's physique, but to require that a game needs to have fat or ugly people? I'm no body builder super model, quite the opposite, but saying there's nothing wrong with being fat is bullshit. And by fat I mean Ellie from Borderlands fat. If protagonists in a game are supposed to be heroes, they should be good examples and stuff. They should all be healthy and fit. If not that then at least normal. If people think that making models look extremely thin could encourage anorexic behavior, then (as ridiculous as it sounds) fat models could also encourage obesity.
Also, she's still pretty hot, with assets that could not possibly exist in real life. Unless boobs are made of muscle in Overwatch's universe.
Lastly, why doesn't her gun make burn marks on the walls? That seems like a pretty big thing to forget in a shooter.
Current news, any comments section/forum or Twitter, and human history. Humans fight wars and/or kill each-other over a difference of belief all the time.erttheking said:Then where the heck did the "Expecting everyone to agree with you" thing come from? No one here has made that argument or anything close to it. It's not relevant.inmunitas said:You asked how it could be a problem. I don't know you personally, so how can I claim anything about you, you're anonymous.erttheking said:It's a good thing I'm not expecting people to see the same thing I am. Seriously man, you just go off on these tangents making claims to counter points that I never made.inmunitas said:Well it becomes a problem when you expect people to see those characters in the same way you do, with real people they have agency so you have at least some element of proof that everyone is able to agree on, where as with fictional characters you're basically creating a belief system/ideology/religion.erttheking said:And this is a problem how? People see different things in fictional characters? People see different things in real people too. I fail to see the problem.inmunitas said:Snip
And this ties back to the design of a character in a video game how? And I'm pretty sure there's a difference between disagreeing with someone (Twitter and current news) and expecting everyone to think the same.inmunitas said:Current news, any comments section or Twitter, and human history. Humans fight wars and kill each-other over a difference of belief all the time.erttheking said:Then where the heck did the "Expecting everyone to agree with you" thing come from? No one here has made that argument or anything close to it. It's not relevant.inmunitas said:You asked how it could be a problem. I don't know you personally, so how can I claim anything about you, you're anonymous.erttheking said:It's a good thing I'm not expecting people to see the same thing I am. Seriously man, you just go off on these tangents making claims to counter points that I never made.inmunitas said:Well it becomes a problem when you expect people to see those characters in the same way you do, with real people they have agency so you have at least some element of proof that everyone is able to agree on, where as with fictional characters you're basically creating a belief system/ideology/religion.erttheking said:And this is a problem how? People see different things in fictional characters? People see different things in real people too. I fail to see the problem.inmunitas said:Snip
It's all subjective.erttheking said:And this ties back to the design of a character in a video game how? And I'm pretty sure there's a difference between disagreeing with someone (Twitter and current news) and expecting everyone to think the same.inmunitas said:Current news, any comments section or Twitter, and human history. Humans fight wars and kill each-other over a difference of belief all the time.erttheking said:Then where the heck did the "Expecting everyone to agree with you" thing come from? No one here has made that argument or anything close to it. It's not relevant.inmunitas said:You asked how it could be a problem. I don't know you personally, so how can I claim anything about you, you're anonymous.erttheking said:It's a good thing I'm not expecting people to see the same thing I am. Seriously man, you just go off on these tangents making claims to counter points that I never made.inmunitas said:Well it becomes a problem when you expect people to see those characters in the same way you do, with real people they have agency so you have at least some element of proof that everyone is able to agree on, where as with fictional characters you're basically creating a belief system/ideology/religion.erttheking said:And this is a problem how? People see different things in fictional characters? People see different things in real people too. I fail to see the problem.inmunitas said:Snip
inmunitas said:It's all subjective.erttheking said:inmunitas said:Current news, any comments section or Twitter, and human history. Humans fight wars and kill each-other over a difference of belief all the time.erttheking said:Then where the heck did the "Expecting everyone to agree with you" thing come from? No one here has made that argument or anything close to it. It's not relevant.inmunitas said:You asked how it could be a problem. I don't know you personally, so how can I claim anything about you, you're anonymous.erttheking said:It's a good thing I'm not expecting people to see the same thing I am. Seriously man, you just go off on these tangents making claims to counter points that I never made.inmunitas said:Well it becomes a problem when you expect people to see those characters in the same way you do, with real people they have agency so you have at least some element of proof that everyone is able to agree on, where as with fictional characters you're basically creating a belief system/ideology/religion.erttheking said:And this is a problem how? People see different things in fictional characters? People see different things in real people too. I fail to see the problem.inmunitas said:Snip
And this ties back to the design of a character in a video game how? And I'm pretty sure there's a difference between disagreeing with someone (Twitter and current news) and expecting everyone to think the same.
We're talking about the idolisation/worship of video game characters, video game characters don't have agency, so a persons idolisation of them is going to be self-projection which of course is inherently subjective. Thus when that character is criticised it's going to be taken somewhat personally by a person who idolises that character, which typically leads to some form of conflict. So idolisation of a "fictional being" can be seen as problematic, if you wish to avoid conflict that is.erttheking said:inmunitas said:It's all subjective.erttheking said:inmunitas said:Current news, any comments section or Twitter, and human history. Humans fight wars and kill each-other over a difference of belief all the time.erttheking said:Then where the heck did the "Expecting everyone to agree with you" thing come from? No one here has made that argument or anything close to it. It's not relevant.inmunitas said:You asked how it could be a problem. I don't know you personally, so how can I claim anything about you, you're anonymous.erttheking said:It's a good thing I'm not expecting people to see the same thing I am. Seriously man, you just go off on these tangents making claims to counter points that I never made.inmunitas said:Well it becomes a problem when you expect people to see those characters in the same way you do, with real people they have agency so you have at least some element of proof that everyone is able to agree on, where as with fictional characters you're basically creating a belief system/ideology/religion.erttheking said:And this is a problem how? People see different things in fictional characters? People see different things in real people too. I fail to see the problem.inmunitas said:Snip
And this ties back to the design of a character in a video game how? And I'm pretty sure there's a difference between disagreeing with someone (Twitter and current news) and expecting everyone to think the same.
That isn't an answer. We're just going around in circles now, getting nowhere.
Touching on this because it caught my eye on the scroll down.erttheking said:You do realize this is a website mainly dedicated to gamers correct? As in gaming is our preferred hobby? And short of games like Tex Murphy, games don't actually have real people in them, and I'm pretty sure a lot of gamers grew up idolizing game characters. Heck, we still do if the popularity of characters like Master Chief and Commander Shepard is anything to go by
And what's so bad about relating with someone who's a fictional character and not live action? I relate to plenty of video game characters like you wouldn't believe.
Perhaps not in games, per se, but in popular culture it is definitely a cliche. Just off the top of my head:loa said:None.Davroth said:So you don't think she looks like a stereotypical butch lesbian then? Just checking...loa said:"Muscular russian soldier woman" is an overdone cliche in games?
Surely you can name 5 examples of it then cause I can't think of any.
Beyond that, the buff russian soldier is a stereotype in all media. And just slapping some boobs on a stereotype doesn't make it all fresh and new, or somehow "progressive".
I just really don't feel like praising Blizzard for putting a potentially rather regressive stereotype into their games. But hey, I'm glad SJW types are so easily appeased. Makes me feel like at the end of the day, actually nothing will change.
So you have no examples. Gotcha.
Anyone else?
A character is not diverse. That doesn't even make sense. A group of characters is diverse. If all of the characters were classic stereotypes, that would not be diverse. If none of them were, that would also not be diverse. The Overwatch roster is now noticably more diverse than it was before Zarya was added.Cavouku said:I mean, it's not bad, and I'd say it's better than nothing. The article mentioned something about whether this was a step forward? I'd say yes, on the diversity scale. I'm just kinda iffy about it being a politically sound move to draw so much attention to just how diverse this really is.
Those of us asking for examples aren't the ones attaching the nationality to it. We're responding to people who claim that this kind of character-with nationality attached-is overused in games.Gatlank said:If you attach nationality to the stereotype i can't remember many except maybe in comics or movies.