New Star Trek Into Darkness Trailer: Shall We Begin?

GameChanger

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Scarim Coral said:
Ok the new scene (Kirk ship coming face to face with the bigger villain ship) got more even more hyped up now!

Is it just me or can anyone easily see that the ship get damage while taking casualty and crash into the sea but somehow later on it rise up again (either they somehow repair the damage quickly while underwater or it's still damaged)?
SPOILERS for the first few minutes showed before the Hobbit when it was in theatres.


From what I could remember I think that's from the beginning scene. They showed the Enterprise being undercover by going under water to study an alien civ. I guess they rise from the seas first before blasting off into warp speed.


On the trailer: it's great. It's everything I'd want it to be. I have come to accept that these are just action movies in Star Trek form and I love 'em so far. A particularly touching moment was when Kirk turns around and says "I'm sorry", probably realizing he made a huge mistake and people are going to suffer for it.
I know it's a trailer and they skew the films actual plot, but DAMN. I think people are going to get killed in this movie, important people. It's an alternate timeline so they can basically do anything they want.
 

shintakie10

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Iron Criterion said:
Wintermute said:
As someone who never even watched a full episode of Star Trek, it's safe to say I can watch this like I'm watching MOVIE IN SPACE: WE ARE IN SPACE LOOK SPACE HOLY SHIT and enjoy it no problem, because it does look pretty awesome.

Edit: a quick search tells me there's a lot of series spanning the years. Should I give a second try at all and if so, where do I start?
Star Trek: The Next Generation - seeing as how Picard is the only good captain. Though if you are planning to see this movie I'd check out the first J.J. Abrams flick, and possibly the original series ('same' captain as this film, different continuity).
Bullshit on that.

Sisqo > Picard.

Why? Because if I go into a war I want the guy who isn't afraid to get his hands dirty.

If I'm not in a war, I just want him to monologue around me a lot because I lurve his voice.

Its so awesome.
 

rodneyy

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Sep 10, 2008
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Shemming said:
I rather hope they don't rehash the whole ship from the future thing again.
that was my thought as well, wait a sec a big ship from somewhere else (it might not be mirror universe but as the enterprise is the flagship so going to be a big/the biggest ship in fleet you kind of assume the other one is from another place) with the one giving orders pissed at an enterprise bridge officer. humm this is all getting a little familiar.

RoBi3.0 said:
To be fair it has been hypothesized that Black holes could be used to time travel in some manner. That is an actual physics thing. I am not a physicist by any means so I can't defend it beyond that.
unless there have been some new things i have not heard about the whole time travel/black hole thing is more go into orbit around a super massive black hole and use the large time dilation to let you travel into the future. time travels more slowly the closer you are to objects of mass, the more mass the slower times goes. so 5 years pass for you and 10-20-30 (numbers all made up) years have passed further away from the black hole.

i dont think they have worked out any ways to travel back in time yet.
OlasDAlmighty said:
According to the pattern...

The Motion Picture - Bad
The Wrath of Khan - Good
The Search for Spock - Bad (underrated)
The Voyage Home - Good
The Final Frontier - Bad
The Undiscovered Country - Good
Generations - Bad
First Contact - Good
Insurrection - Bad
Nemesis - Good? (Nobody thinks Nemesis is good)
JJ Abrams Reboot - Bad? (Most people like it)
Into Darkness (According to the pattern) - Good
i always liked insurrection, i know the reverse ageing thing was a little silly but standing up for what was right willing to give your life to protect it was picard all over for me.
 

J Tyran

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
J Tyran said:
You think Star Trek: Nemesis is good, I think that gives an appropriate value to your opinions. Pines acting when he sees whatever ship that happens to be and realizes the mess he is in and that Pikes comment about getting his whole crew killed might come true is fairly good.

You claim Star Trek fans are in denial and its true, they are in denial but not for the reasons you give. The fans that are in denial are the ones that claim the new Star Trek films are nothing like the old ones when the opposite is true. They are exactly like the old ones, they just have modern SFX and modern action sensibilities.
Er... no. No, they're really not.

The old Star Trek series was a television show which challenged its audience. It wasn't about explosions or space ship battles. It was about putting the crew of the Enterprise in various ethically and philosophically challenging situations, and through them trying to get the audience to challenge their own beliefs and assumptions.

You know how the original Star Trek had a multi-racial, multi-gender crew? That was unheard of at the time. The very premise of the show set up a future where humanity had overcome its petty tribal differences, and things such as racism and sexism were a thing of the past. This was a show that came out in the Sixties, when racism and sexism were still common currency. Star Trek challenged audience members to look at their views on race, on gender, on nationality, and to see if they were really worth holding on to. It was the first show to portray on screen a kiss between a white character and a black one. That, at the time, was a huge Fuck You to establishment thinking, and it's one of the key moments of racial portrayal in pop culture.

Not only that, but the Prime Directive was a hugely important narrative tool that led to some incredibly morally challenging stories for the time. The Sixties was a period when people still clung to absolute ideals of Good and Evil, no doubt fuelled by the pervasive Cold War us-vs-them culture and the continued dominance of Christianity. With the Prime Directive, and its insistence that there can be no interference with the internal developments of alien civilisations, Star Trek created stories that went far beyond clear Good Vs Evil. Kirk, Spock and the crew were forced to face difficult decisions where there weren't any easy choices. It's easy now, post Sopranos and The Wire, to take this ethically challenging narrative style for granted, but at the time it was unheralded. The original Star Trek series tackled themes of slavery, discrimination and war, and did so with a (for the time) incredibly enlightened and modern mindset. This was a show that challenged all the accepted bigotries of the day, and inspired millions of people around the world to dream of a future where discrimination and bigotry were a relic of history.

What did the Star trek reboot do to carry on that legacy? What great ethical conundrums were there? What analysis did it offer of human bigotries? What philosophical musings? The reboot film was a shallow action film with wonky storytelling that simply wore the face of Star Trek like Hannibal Lecter.

And now they're going to do it again with Into Darkness. Must we accept it? No. I will not sacrifice the old Star trek series. They've made too many compromises already, too many retcons. They rewrite the characters, and we accept it. They destroy entire worlds, and we accept it. Not again! The line must be drawn here! This far! No further! And I will make Abrams pay for what he's done!
There is very little I would disagree with in your post, ToS did challenge a lot of things and thats what made it special. The problem is those themes have been done and redone, it also fell into a trap of regurgitating them over and over with a diarrhea of technobabble. How would the series manage to do them over a 20th time? How could it escape the spiral of decline? Box office figures for the films had crashed and the TV series had died, perhaps beyond all hope of recovery.

They simply didn't try, they just made a simple plot. One man trying to work out who he was Vs another man on a rampage of vengeance, Nothing wrong with going back to basics at all. Its not even all that differant from past TV or movies plots either. If you do not like the new films thats fine, I do have some sympathy too as you feel the series isn't something you like anymore. Thing is the new films have objectively saved the series, the incomes from the first film and the fact they have thrown even more into a sequel proves that its been saved.

I am happy to see it continue, a new generation of Trek fans will be born from the success of these films and who knows there might even be a new TV series one day. I do not want Star Trek to be a dead franchise where a few thousand Trekkies [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaacEyOXVE8] go from convention to convention listening to a steadily diminshing ex cast quoting the same anecdotes time and time again.

rodneyy said:
i always liked insurrection, i know the reverse ageing thing was a little silly but standing up for what was right willing to give your life to protect it was picard all over for me.
Insurrection would have been a better 2-3 episode TV story than a film I think.
 

Olas

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Sonic Doctor said:
OlasDAlmighty said:
Nemesis - Good? (Nobody thinks Nemesis is good)
JJ Abrams Reboot - Bad? (Most people like it)
I'm proving you wrong. I think Nemesis is good. The Data story-arch is sad, but heartwarming.

On Abrams, the only people I know that said they liked it, are people that have never watched Star Trek and don't know what makes Star Trek, Star Trek, and Star Trek fans that are in denial and make an acceptation based on the fact it is set in an alternate universe.
Hate to burst your bubble, but you're the exception, not the rule.

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_nemesis/

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_trek_11/

Actually I do kinda agree with you on Nemesis, I don't know why everybody hates on it so much, but they do.

As for Star Trek: Abrams Style. Your talking to someone who's watched every series and every movie who likes it。
 

J Tyran

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Rogue 09 said:
You may even like Space Balls better! We're not going to be drinking that Kool-Aid, though...
Nobodies trying to tell you what to drink. Noone has to like it, if people dislike it they dislike it but they really need to stop trying to justify the dislike because of "reasons". "Reasons" that almost entirely exist within their own head about what Star Trek "should be". Star Treks been reclaimed from the Trekkies that nearly destroyed it and its been made relevant for a new generation once again.

Thats what really matters, not "reasons".
 

Something Amyss

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Iron Criterion said:
Star Trek: The Next Generation - seeing as how Picard is the only good captain.
As long as you don't mind him and his fellow mary sues being utterly stunted mockeries of humanity, that is.
 

J Tyran

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
J Tyran said:
snip
Thing is it was the first film, the first film from a series that had been sniffing its own farts and nearly choked. It was a risk so they played it safe, we have not seen the second film either so who is to say this one wont be a little deeper?

The first firm was like Wrath of Khan, Star Trek the motion picture was on shaky ground so they went simple. Khan was mad and he made Kirk mad, the deepest theme there was basically the specter of the military abusing scientific progress and it didn't dwell to much on that.

The basic premise of this new film seems to about Kirk and the challenges of leadership, how does somebody make decisions that affect countless people? Simple yet there is a lot to explore here if done right, certainly as much potential here as any other Star Trek movie and much more than a few of them.

I would like to see more complex issues explored too but not at the risk of it returning to the fart sniffing, if they can salvage the basic hero overcoming obstacles with teamwork underpinnings of the series its fine.
 

Laughing Man

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Well, it certainly does look like a "future ship" no matter what it may be. Size proportions would be more consistent to a Galaxy Class than to an Excelsior class ship, but that may just be me.
The Enterprise in the new movies is a bigger more bulky ship than the Enterprise in the original, if you want to us an up scaled comparison of the older ships, taking in to account the newer bulkier design, then in proportions the enemy ship is closer in size to an Ambassador Class ship when compared to the Enterprise in size.

Only problem with that is the Ambassador has smaller, shorter Nacelles that sit beneath the Saucer section where as this ship has much longer Nacelles that sit above the Saucer section, similar to the Excelsior Class.

To be honest it looks like a much bigger battle harden version of the Enterprise, I would toss out a Dreadnought Class, we saw the Enterprise D version in Future's End and I know Enterprise A versions have been kicked around in a few books. It's basically a bigger battle hardened version of a regular Federation Cruiser, with more fire power and usually better defences, sensors and a few addons, the only thing that makes me question that is the Dreadnoughts had a third Warp Nacelle which this ship doesn't seem to have. Maybe it's a whole new ship, to be honest I dunno how much of the original canon is gonna get used in the new reboots.

All I can say is another Reboot movie in which the Federation's supposed Heavy Cruiser Enterprise goes up against an enemy with a much bigger badder ship... original.
 

Sonic Doctor

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J Tyran said:
You claim Star Trek fans are in denial and its true, they are in denial but not for the reasons you give. The fans that are in denial are the ones that claim the new Star Trek films are nothing like the old ones when the opposite is true. They are exactly like the old ones, they just have modern SFX and modern action sensibilities.
It will really end up having to agree to disagree, because this is how I see the old and the new.

Old Star Trek: Story driven action.
New Star Trek: Action driven story.

Old: Ask villain questions and then shoot in self defense.
New: There's the villain! Shoot! Shoot! Shoot!

Old: Study and act, shown even in high action scenes.
New: Phasers a blazing! The characters will do things to help them at a moments notice without the movie showing that they at least thought about how to proceed.

You should get the point of what I'm saying by now. If modern action sensibilities you mean:

Cram as much action into ever minute because we got to keep this movie moving as fast as possible because ADD kiddies and adults will lose interest, then yes, that is what the new Star Trek is doing.

The old Star Trek is the sensible movie way, at least when it comes to actually making a movie that truly embodies what Star Trek is:

Exploration and discovery, making peace with who you can, and defend yourself if you finally can't make peace, and even if the villain shoots first and causes great carnage, you still try to at least reason with him.

Old Star Trek let the viewer take things in, to analyze what is going on. New Star Trek, even during times where the action should be slow, it switches scenes every few seconds, flash, flash, flash. There is barely a handful of scenes where the action is minimal and the movie treats it as such.

What I'm saying is that I can't stand that Abrams treats Star Trek like it should be a purely action oriented movie, when that is not what it is or should be.

But again, I have a feeling this will be an agree to disagree situation.
 

J Tyran

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Sonic Doctor said:
I have a feeling this will be an agree to disagree situation.
Not exactly, we do agree on a lot. Like "Old Star Trek: Story driven action. New Star Trek: Action driven story" for example. The only difference is that I feel the film is still a fairly decent despite its shortcomings, it doesn't recapture a lot of what makes good Star Trek good but it does avoid what makes the bad Star Trek bad.
 

mrseriousguy

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OlasDAlmighty said:
I know the reason why people hated Nemesis.
A. The last TNG Era Movie.
B. Too Action Orientated
C. Data Dead (although they fixed that in a wonderful book series that should be a miniseries)

Now for me I was bummed after seeing that movie in theaters. Because everyone else felt the same way, we knew Insurrection was a bomb and this one was lackluster the in Post-Independence Day Mega- blockbusters meant the end of the movies. And with Gene Roddenberry gone, there was no spirit behind Star Trek.

Rick Burman put a blindfold over a bust of Gene because the stories and spirit of the newer shows after TNG wasn't Gene's Star Trek. And you can feel it with some of the shows. The theme of unity, upbeat, evolving society after curing allot of it's ills while at the same time facing them again as they explore outside of it's home. Seemed to be falling to the wayside for, action; the wild west in space. Which a isn't all bad but new Trek isn't exploring that side of humanity facing the past to build a better future. Without this people don't feel optimistic about the future. Just better technology and more fighting, Gene would be ashamed.

Now getting back to the Movies at hand. Name the a few that dealt with the past pit falls of humanity and the one's that were successful (fan wise). Like Khan dealt with past mistakes and the repercussions of revenge. Voyage home dealt the simular theme fixing the mistakes and protecting the future. Undiscovered Country; aging warriors trying to let go or embrace old hatred; both parties believing what they are doing is for the greater good. First Contact where we learn even the most well put together people have deep flaws that they have to overcome or sacrifice to become better people. In each of these movies the characters have to grow becuase of the events at hand. They learned from their mistakes and the mistakes of others to become better.

Then you get to the cursed ones like Insurrection where they trying to save pretty people from the bad ugly people, who are stealing their land. Generations where they are trying to stop a madman but his reasons for doing it could have been fixed 40 years before the movie with one good shuttle and some extra shielding. Final Frontier over all just bad plot same as the others. There has to be substance to the action you see on screen, something deeper behind all the phaser fire.

09' Trek, I don't hate because it's an origin story told in a different timeline. It's good, not perfect but it's not Gene's Trek either. Now I have hope that this new movie we see more of the personal development and it's more story driven, since we got over the origin story. And from the trailers it seems like Kirk is now learning that his cowboy antics get people killed and has to grow from this and it carries over to the next movie (if there is one).

Sorry for the long post just had to get that one out.

Oh and Galaxy Quest was the best Trek Parody ever, nuff said.
 

Olas

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mrseriousguy said:
Final Frontier over all just bad plot same as the others.
Say what you want about its dialogue, acting, and special affects, but at least the larger theme of FF, mankind's quest for greatness, was closer to Gene Roddenberry's vision than any of the other films (Besides TMP of course). And Wrath of Khan, though there are other themes as well, is essentially a revenge film, and very little about it could be called upbeat.

mrseriousguy said:
Oh and Galaxy Quest was the best Trek Parody ever, nuff said.
Star Trek: The Motion Picture - Bad
Star Trek: The Wrath of Khan - Good
Star Trek: The Search for Spock - Bad
Star Trek: The Voyage Home - Good
Star Trek: The Final Frontier - Bad
Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country - Good
Star Trek: Generations - Bad
Star Trek: First Contact - Good
Star Trek: Insurrection - Bad
Galaxy Quest - Good
Star Trek: Nemesis - Bad
Star Trek 2009 - Good

And there you have it, problem solved.