This might be a bit off topic but, I've always wondered how the economy or even the world would be today without the internet.
While normally I would agree with your comment of the "I do not believe in what you say..." being a poor argument, and one that the Escapist falls back on too often, I do believe that in this case you're incorrect. In this current day and age privacy is becoming tougher and tougher to defend, and is being infringed upon more and more. We really need to start pushing back on the privacy front, or we will see continued efforts to infringe upon our private lives. Your home, your car, your computer are all parts of the same. While I may not like that a person can transport marijuana in their car, I do appreciate that he is protected from unwarranted search and seizure. The principal is that protection that is afforded to all of us. Sure, I may not be doing anything illegal in my car, but I still don't want to be pulled over by a cop simply because I looked at him wrong. The same concept is true of my computer. I may not like piracy, but I do appreciate the that person is protected from unwarranted search and seizure.Fawxy said:That's not what happens. A thread pops up discussing how a government (say, Germany for example) is introducing a new law that will allow them to track and crack down on these criminals harder and quicker than ever before.Golem239 said:now when the fuck has someone made a thread saying "I believe child porn should be legalized"Fawxy said:but any time a government tries to shut down illegal activities (piracy, downloading of child pornography)
Instantaneously, some brainless fuck posts to the thread babbling some nonsense about "freedom of speech/information" and that the implementation of this law will inevitably lead to a fascist state where no one has any rights or freedoms.
That, or they pull out the most worthless quote of all time; "I do not believe in what you say, but I will defend your right to say it." Thus completely disregarding that the material violates the basic human rights of the victims and thus should not be subject to the "freedom of speech" clause that morons on here like to cluck about ever so much.
Will it matter? Oversight can always flag a website's address if they don't like it---no matter what kind of services it provides--and then someone will send you an e-mail telling you to watch your manners.Twilight_guy said:Well that's a dumb plan. People will just move their websites and fileshareing to different locations that aren't being monitored. If you post a guard at a den of scum and villainy the scum and villainy is going to find a new place to hang out, just because they are "bad guys" doesn't make them stupid.
Right to Privacy, is a human right in the US as well as a declared human right by the UN under Article 12 of Universal Declaration of Human Rights.Stall said:Did you just draw a parallel between piracy and women's/gay rights? Um, alright... that's an interesting analogy. Piracy is kind of illegal you know. Last time I checked, it wasn't a basic human right like, say what women's/gay rights and such.ThatDaveDude1 said:It won't bother you from a practical standpoint if you don't illegally download.
It can still bother you on principle regardless.
_
Men can still care about Women's Rights. Straight people can still care about Gay Rights. Human beings can still care about Animal Rights.
Why do you feel that in this one area people need to be directly affected to give a shit, when they don't have to be in any other?
Arbitrary interference with correspondence is exactly what is happening when your internet provider reserves the right to monitor you private data transmissions.No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of the law against such interference or attacks.
Except in this case, the traffic light cameras are perma-record 1080p video cameras. And instead of being at the traffic lights, they're strewn across your house and inside your [room of private happy time].t3h br0th3r said:oh noes! an attempt to enforce the laws!
Going after people who break the law is an invasion of privacy!
But seriously, this just seems like the internet version of traffic light cameras. If you don't break the laws, there is nothing to worry about here.
I'm a computer Scientist, all i can say is... no. That's not how that works. Scientists have been working with tremendous and continually changing data-sets for some time now (Like I dunno real time monitoring of the weather) and have been able to handle the data. Even then if the data is too fast for humans to analysis, you know like with the mountains of data that Amazons collect on purchases everyday, AI work can process data into a useful form (such as predicting what items you're likely to buy). Yeah I know you're going to shout and moan because I suck at making arguments but I know you're wrong on the technical aspect.unabomberman said:Will it matter? Oversight can always flag a website's address if they don't like it---no matter what kind of services it provides--and then someone will send you an e-mail telling you to watch your manners.Twilight_guy said:Well that's a dumb plan. People will just move their websites and fileshareing to different locations that aren't being monitored. If you post a guard at a den of scum and villainy the scum and villainy is going to find a new place to hang out, just because they are "bad guys" doesn't make them stupid.
Wanna hear something truly scary? There will come a point when watching all these growing data exchanges becomes such a masive issue to do in any effective manner (b/c it won't be used solely to monitor illegal activity) for normal people that they will have to turn to the only known existing model of software doing monitoring of this magnitude...like it is already done in the stock exchange (read about black box trading or algo trading) where they have software programs--algorithms--that make elaborate decisions based on incoming information that is so freaking fast, and also changes so fast, that we cannot possibly tell what is going on ourselves.
Yup. Oversight won't even be handled by people. And it's already known to have contributed to one big fuckup before (see flash crash event of May 6, 2010).
May the brix be shat.
No offence but if you hate the users on this forum so much, why are you still here? This isn't the first time I've seen you accuse the members here of being child abusers or worse and ignoring legitimate arguments against this kind of law, such as the ISP's having the power to cut off access without any legal proof of the accused actually pirating. If you want to support this law then fine, it's your right to have an opinion, but don't try to scare-monger opponents into silence by associating them with criminals.Fawxy said:That's the majority of the Escapist community for you, Sober Thal. They love to mock Fox News at every turn when ever games are brought up (HUR HURR THIS GAME IS GOING TO LET YOU SHOOT CIVILIANS FOX NEWS IS GONNA BE SOOO MAD HAHAHA) but any time a government tries to shut down illegal activities (piracy, downloading of child pornography) on the internet they twist logic and use slippery slope fallacies until their arms fall off. Why? Because the board is full of pirates and pedophiles trying to equate their rights to "privacy" (They define privacy as being able to do whatever, whenever they want) with other legitimate movements in an attempt to justify their wrongdoings, and quite frankly it makes me sick to no end.
Piracy is stealing, period. Companies protecting their property is the only conclusion to this situation, and even though this might not be the best way to go about it it's certainly a step in the right direction.
They already are migrating away from Bit Torrent in a fashion. Darknets are becoming more and more popular. Usenet is still around and in many ways much much better than Bit Torrent if you don't mind paying a small monthly fee and doing a bit of work. On top of that people in large cities that pirate rarely need to do so from their own IP. Then if you are dead set on using Bit Torrent anyway from your own IP there are programs in place to mask your actions and they do a damn fine job of it.Twilight_guy said:Well that's a dumb plan. People will just move their websites and fileshareing to different locations that aren't being monitored. If you post a guard at a den of scum and villainy the scum and villainy is going to find a new place to hang out, just because they are "bad guys" doesn't make them stupid.
This. Its like people that ***** about speed cameras....if you dont break the speed limit then you have nothing to worry about. What did people think? They would continue to let people steal other peoples property and do nothing? Although i do love how people are getting really uptight about it all. lol. I liked that some one brought up freedom of information. lol.Stall said:You know, if you didn't pirate things, you wouldn't have to worry about it. Saying you are concerned with this sort-of thing is more or less admitting to piracy, since it wouldn't bother you in the slightest if you didn't illegally download things.
I'm not talking about mere monitoring like in the weather, but in both monitoring and making decisions. What I'm saying is that at some point the need to enact some kind of policy on those being monitored, which can only be a lot giving the growing number of people using computers, will force them to use better tools, and a known existing model for that particular task is the stock exchange where both monitoring and decision making is being carried out as we speak...unless you argue that algo trading isn't real in which case we're done here.Twilight_guy said:I'm a computer Scientist, all i can say is... no. That's not how that works. Scientists have been working with tremendous and continually changing data-sets for some time now (Like I dunno real time monitoring of the weather) and have been able to handle the data. Even then if the data is too fast for humans to analysis, you know like with the mountains of data that Amazons collect on purchases everyday, AI work can process data into a useful form (such as predicting what items you're likely to buy). Yeah I know you're going to shout and moan because I suck at making arguments but I know you're wrong on the technical aspect.unabomberman said:Will it matter? Oversight can always flag a website's address if they don't like it---no matter what kind of services it provides--and then someone will send you an e-mail telling you to watch your manners.Twilight_guy said:Well that's a dumb plan. People will just move their websites and fileshareing to different locations that aren't being monitored. If you post a guard at a den of scum and villainy the scum and villainy is going to find a new place to hang out, just because they are "bad guys" doesn't make them stupid.
Wanna hear something truly scary? There will come a point when watching all these growing data exchanges becomes such a masive issue to do in any effective manner (b/c it won't be used solely to monitor illegal activity) for normal people that they will have to turn to the only known existing model of software doing monitoring of this magnitude...like it is already done in the stock exchange (read about black box trading or algo trading) where they have software programs--algorithms--that make elaborate decisions based on incoming information that is so freaking fast, and also changes so fast, that we cannot possibly tell what is going on ourselves.
Yup. Oversight won't even be handled by people. And it's already known to have contributed to one big fuckup before (see flash crash event of May 6, 2010).
May the brix be shat.
As for your Orwellian prediction... So what. This isn't the government. They can't prosecute you. This isn't bigger brother this is private corporations. The worst they can do is change your service. If they abuse this then it will lead to lawsuits and the government really will be involved. What happens then I dunno but I'm less afraid of ISP threatening me since they already collect your information they just don't usually do anything with it.
I've learned to be cautious on my opinions here since everyone already blows a gasket at ever new story when nothing comes of 99% of them or people cease to care once it goes into effect. I appreciate watchdogs flying off the handle to protect rights but if they have the right to predict doom every ten second for great justice then I should have the right to be level headed and wait to see what actually comes of a story.
Well since you don't seem to value your privacy how about you post your browsing history, maybe your emails for the past few months, and say the contents of your downloads folder. I mean unless you are doing something wrong you should have no problem with that right?SonOfVoorhees said:This. Its like people that ***** about speed cameras....if you dont break the speed limit then you have nothing to worry about. What did people think? They would continue to let people steal other peoples property and do nothing? Although i do love how people are getting really uptight about it all. lol. I liked that some one brought up freedom of information. lol.