All these implications that a nice guy's only quality is that they're nice (I mean, that's why you call them nice guys, right?).
Nice Guys Suck
- Thread starter Lara Crigger
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What you're really getting at (or rather, what we should be getting at) is stop trying to display the "right" personality. Discover the one you have, and then display that one.Lara Crigger said:
Whether you're pretending to be Nice?, pretending to be Bad?, or whatever else you're putting on, realize that you're wearing a costume. One that, sooner or later, is coming off. Nothing turns feelings bad quite like bait-and-switch. I mean, I love hamburgers, and I love Twinkies, but if you gave me what looked like a Twinkie, and it ended up tasting like hamburger? I'm not just disgusted, I'm also pissed.
Too many people approach dating the way a highway patrol officer approaches tickets -- they wait along the side of the road until they spot a subject they want, and then they step on the gas and try to flag them down. And, generally speaking, the results are about the same -- after awhile, the "subject" leaves angrily and continues on his/her way.
Instead, travel your road. Find out where you're going, who you are, who you're trying to be, and then find the person that always seems to be popping up on the same road. Attraction =/= Compatibility, and compatibility can't be faked (forever).
Be a person. Learn what that means. And then always carry with you the knowledge that the "other" is also being a person. That means they have wants, wishes, likes, dislikes, and goals that are wholly separate from you. If they're not interested, that's all it means. They're not "wrong" for not falling for you, just like you're not "wrong" for not falling for the guy/girl who is eventually going to try the same thing with you (provided it hasn't already happened, and you just failed to see it that way).
The lesson here? When it comes to dating, if you have to "try" to be anything, you're doing it wrong.
What exactly qualifies this author to give any kind of advice to men? Everything she is saying is based on her own personal worldview and her own dating experiences.
There are plenty of women who are not interested in "nice guys [who] are genuine, honest, likable people: Men of generosity, of kindness, who treat those around them with respect." There are plenty of women, especially college-aged, who like men who are exciting, lead them on emotional rollercoasters, and create drama. To them, a "nice guy" (lowercase, no trademark) as described by the author will generally be viewed as boring and passive.
My "advice" is that there is no one set rule for anybody. The most I would tell anyone is: BE SOCIAL. There is no pickup technique, style of clothes, cologne, or dating advice that has ever got me laid, but there's what has time and time again: having lots of friends. I have a lot of male and female friends, and this means I am regularly introduced to new women who are friends of friends. I will get to know these girls until I see if we are similar enough to click, then I ask them out. Sometimes they say yes, and sometimes they say no. That's all there is to it.
There are plenty of women who are not interested in "nice guys [who] are genuine, honest, likable people: Men of generosity, of kindness, who treat those around them with respect." There are plenty of women, especially college-aged, who like men who are exciting, lead them on emotional rollercoasters, and create drama. To them, a "nice guy" (lowercase, no trademark) as described by the author will generally be viewed as boring and passive.
My "advice" is that there is no one set rule for anybody. The most I would tell anyone is: BE SOCIAL. There is no pickup technique, style of clothes, cologne, or dating advice that has ever got me laid, but there's what has time and time again: having lots of friends. I have a lot of male and female friends, and this means I am regularly introduced to new women who are friends of friends. I will get to know these girls until I see if we are similar enough to click, then I ask them out. Sometimes they say yes, and sometimes they say no. That's all there is to it.
So, you'll get lots of pick-up artist/Game success stories, where guys will talk about how after they started being a "cocky, funny asshole" or whatever, suddenly there were so many more women interested in them. All of these stories have one thing in common. The first thing they did was practice whatever their stupid "technique" was on a bunch of women, who all rejected them. They took the advice of some guru who found a piece of evolutionary psychology and looked at it cross-eyed until it gave him a result he liked, and they followed some idiot script and then eventually when it worked they decided that the method must be golden.
The amount of bad science in there is overwhelming. The simple truth is, if you want a quick bang, asking a metric ton of drunk girls who are very likely looking for the same thing is going to work for you eventually. The details of which script you follow, the details of which persona you adopt, none of them matter so long as they help you soften the blow of rejection enough to ask fifty girls in a row until one says yes. Also, you're a prick, but if you're willing to treat people terribly so you can have sex, you probably don't care. The actual part of the PUA strategy that works is just attrition. Keep trying until you find someone who wants you. The part where you're a jerk is just because you've always been a jerk, but now your dating strategy isn't contingent upon pretending otherwise, and also because you're a gullible moron who'll believe anything an internet guru tells you so long as it's what you want to hear.
Their longterm strategies are in a similar vein. Being able to offer a girl something that no one else can offer is basically the key to success. Also, it has to be something that she actually wants. Also, being able to convince her that you can offer something (and later, convince her that she's receiving it) even if you can't (or she isn't) can go a long way towards that if you don't actually want a relationship, just a steady supply of sex, money, contacts, or whatever. People are alarmingly willing to delude themselves into thinking something which isn't true, is, so this is very doable if you have lots of practice with projecting a persona you don't actually have.
If you're genuinely looking for a good relationship, though, the secret is to get really, really good at whatever it is you are good at and keep on talking to girls until you find one who wants to have sex with you because of it.
The amount of bad science in there is overwhelming. The simple truth is, if you want a quick bang, asking a metric ton of drunk girls who are very likely looking for the same thing is going to work for you eventually. The details of which script you follow, the details of which persona you adopt, none of them matter so long as they help you soften the blow of rejection enough to ask fifty girls in a row until one says yes. Also, you're a prick, but if you're willing to treat people terribly so you can have sex, you probably don't care. The actual part of the PUA strategy that works is just attrition. Keep trying until you find someone who wants you. The part where you're a jerk is just because you've always been a jerk, but now your dating strategy isn't contingent upon pretending otherwise, and also because you're a gullible moron who'll believe anything an internet guru tells you so long as it's what you want to hear.
Their longterm strategies are in a similar vein. Being able to offer a girl something that no one else can offer is basically the key to success. Also, it has to be something that she actually wants. Also, being able to convince her that you can offer something (and later, convince her that she's receiving it) even if you can't (or she isn't) can go a long way towards that if you don't actually want a relationship, just a steady supply of sex, money, contacts, or whatever. People are alarmingly willing to delude themselves into thinking something which isn't true, is, so this is very doable if you have lots of practice with projecting a persona you don't actually have.
If you're genuinely looking for a good relationship, though, the secret is to get really, really good at whatever it is you are good at and keep on talking to girls until you find one who wants to have sex with you because of it.
Well put. Women, or wait, I shouldn't speak for all women. I love nice guys and would want to stay far away from jerks.
The problem is, all, err, most of the people I see talking about "nice guys", are guys who describe themselves as "nice guys" and have a chip on their shoulder. It's ironic, because these guys aren't nice guys at all, and instead seem like the jerk guys I try to avoid.
I've never dated a jerk guy and I would never date a jerk guy. But most of the guys I see complain about how "nice guys" aren't like, are the people who hate nice guys, and act as if they have a right to women, see women as some kind of conquest, and just seem vicious and wanting to take advantage of someone.
And it's not attractive.
The problem is, all, err, most of the people I see talking about "nice guys", are guys who describe themselves as "nice guys" and have a chip on their shoulder. It's ironic, because these guys aren't nice guys at all, and instead seem like the jerk guys I try to avoid.
I've never dated a jerk guy and I would never date a jerk guy. But most of the guys I see complain about how "nice guys" aren't like, are the people who hate nice guys, and act as if they have a right to women, see women as some kind of conquest, and just seem vicious and wanting to take advantage of someone.
And it's not attractive.
I hope you're just as harsh and unsympathetic to women who ever have a chip on their shoulder about the other gender.
Which is not to say you shouldn't, I don't mean that. I'm saying both genders need this information.
Which is not to say you shouldn't, I don't mean that. I'm saying both genders need this information.
Where did this "be a supernova" thing come from? I get the gist of what it's supposed to mean, but the etymology is elusive to me, and I'm struck with a curiosity strong enough to lure several cats to their untimely demise.
I consider myself to be a very cool person. Yes, I have been the nice guy before, but I don't think I've been the "Nice Guy?" (Alt + 0153 for anyone who's curious). I think the problem stems from the definition or really what qualities it takes to make a nice guy trademarked and capitalized. And I think that difference is dishonesty. Unfortunately, there is an issue with intention that becomes troublesome here.
Did the "nice guy" in question know he was lying when he said, "Yes, I'll only be your friend"? If yes, he knew that he was lying to get closer, then he's trademarked. Manipulative. Likely kind of shady or has a somewhat imbalanced perception of relationships. But...
But what if the guy genuinely didn't know he was lying? What if he accepted the offer of friendship without thinking it through? Does he give up that friendship to ask for space? Perhaps he assumes that cowardice is akin to romance and losing the friend is worse than staying changeless, but this person likely isn't strong willed and wouldn't be attractive in the long run anyway. Being afraid to change is lacking goals, is lacking drive; women don't need you to command the room, but they would prefer you know what you want in life and go for it. There's nothing worse than feeling like you're someone's safety.
Last situation: what if you really do want to be friends with someone, but they keep sending mixed signals? Like awkwardly long hugs. And, yeah the truth is you didn't want to let go anyway, but making a move is still terrifying because she is such a good friend. I still don't know the answer to this one, but I have a feeling there's a decent mixture of these three scenarios and several others that will never be answerable with two pages of text on an internet dating advice column.
I consider myself to be a very cool person. Yes, I have been the nice guy before, but I don't think I've been the "Nice Guy?" (Alt + 0153 for anyone who's curious). I think the problem stems from the definition or really what qualities it takes to make a nice guy trademarked and capitalized. And I think that difference is dishonesty. Unfortunately, there is an issue with intention that becomes troublesome here.
Did the "nice guy" in question know he was lying when he said, "Yes, I'll only be your friend"? If yes, he knew that he was lying to get closer, then he's trademarked. Manipulative. Likely kind of shady or has a somewhat imbalanced perception of relationships. But...
But what if the guy genuinely didn't know he was lying? What if he accepted the offer of friendship without thinking it through? Does he give up that friendship to ask for space? Perhaps he assumes that cowardice is akin to romance and losing the friend is worse than staying changeless, but this person likely isn't strong willed and wouldn't be attractive in the long run anyway. Being afraid to change is lacking goals, is lacking drive; women don't need you to command the room, but they would prefer you know what you want in life and go for it. There's nothing worse than feeling like you're someone's safety.
Last situation: what if you really do want to be friends with someone, but they keep sending mixed signals? Like awkwardly long hugs. And, yeah the truth is you didn't want to let go anyway, but making a move is still terrifying because she is such a good friend. I still don't know the answer to this one, but I have a feeling there's a decent mixture of these three scenarios and several others that will never be answerable with two pages of text on an internet dating advice column.
There are only benefits to not making them public. My point was meant to be with the rest of my total statement, not taken out of context. The issue was insecurities. The nice guy vs. douche bag mentality has never been a point in the fight to attract the opposite sex. You are much better off not showing your insecurities, which is why the Nice Guy? wins. You can even bet that one has even more insecurities. My point was that self confidence is the main factor, and the nice guy vs Nice Guy? is an illusion.Father Time said:
Use to be a nice guy. Things that I got out of being said nice guy. An ear for listening and talking skills. Nothing else but those things are good in a conversation especially when arguing. Now what I lost after giving up the Nice guy act was a hopeful view because in the end someone is going to screw you over. Now I honestly am much happier for losing such a view.
A lot of posts here were saying how bitchy girls are to blame for Nice Guy? insecurities, how women can be introverted but a guy has to change otherwise he is a bastard and other nonsense like that.AquaAscension said:
There is a common belief that Nice Guys? are just insecure and are doing their best because of it... Well, you want to get ride of your insecurities? Become a Supernova.
I know it sounds stupid and ridicules and over the top and irrelevant. It isn't...
We are all bashful gamers but while some of us hide behind our insecurities some of us fight them. "Nice" isn't a trait to flaunt, nice should be the norm and you should have enough personality traits and life experience to be more than just nice, and if you aren't than you should start now.
Don't be the quiet-but-nice-guy, how the fuck is anyone ever going to find out how awesome you are if you barely ever speak? Women aren't mind readers.
Instead, be the outgoing nice guy, you talk to people, have fun and do stupid shit. People will remember you when you aren't there and they'll talk about you, hell, someone might even fall for you.
You don't have to be a completely different person to be 'Supernova', be yourself but louder.
And ladies:
If you meet a nice guy who's outgoing and you're interested in him just fucking ask him out already, we may be louder and more outgoing than quiet-but-nice-guys or Nice Guys? but that doesn't mean we aren't susceptible to shyness and insecurity, particularly around women.
Instead, be the outgoing nice guy, you talk to people, have fun and do stupid shit. People will remember you when you aren't there and they'll talk about you, hell, someone might even fall for you.
You don't have to be a completely different person to be 'Supernova', be yourself but louder.
And ladies:
If you meet a nice guy who's outgoing and you're interested in him just fucking ask him out already, we may be louder and more outgoing than quiet-but-nice-guys or Nice Guys? but that doesn't mean we aren't susceptible to shyness and insecurity, particularly around women.
Problem is, having to measure up to any kind of standard is the same as saying that we are not allowed to self judge our own worth, and must instead be under the towering judgement of others.
And yes, it does seem more like men are subject to this than women.
You would never see an article here saying "Women must be a certain way, love must be earned."
It's the "love must be earned" stuff that really bothers me.
And yes, it does seem more like men are subject to this than women.
You would never see an article here saying "Women must be a certain way, love must be earned."
It's the "love must be earned" stuff that really bothers me.
Are you blind or something? Dude, guys get to get away with so much... starting with the beer gut and ending with a uni-brow.Cephei Mordred said:
You know what they call a disagreeable women? A *****. Male? Alpha.
Women likes sex? She is a whore. A guy likes sex? He is a stud.
You want to complain about gender equality? Donate 10% of your earnings to charity and shave your legs every 2 days.
Oh, and lets not forget about the fact only hot girls are allowed to get away with introversion. If you are ugly, female and introverted then you are about as noticeable as a fly on the wall.
I can't believe you are complaining about have to be more sociable when women can't walk the streets at night in most areas of the globe.
There is a prayer that Jewish men are supposed to say in the mornings: ברוך שלא עשני אישה or in English "Blessed is he for not making me female".
I'd give all that up for being able to blame all my problems on the other gender, like you seem to be getting at with this post.