Nice Guys Suck

[KirbyKrackle]

You know my real feelings, Kirby. I stated them to you in PM yet you still persist in treating me like I'm the stupidest ************ on the planet.

In any case, I might someday decide to give in and make something of my life, but you, you'll always be a Libertarian. May the day never come when I sink so low.

So, put the Ayn Rand down for a moment and quit using the law of the jungle as an excuse to spit on those you consider beneath you, eh?

Yeah, it's almost like knowing your "real feelings" is related to how I treat you.

Rand thought she was entitled to go for any guy she wanted without having judgement cast on her, but was a complete hypocrite who went apeshit when a guy did the same thing to her and felt free to get very judgey indeed. Hmm, entitlement and hypocrisy reminds me of someone...can't quite put my finger on who though.

 

[Cephei Mordred]

You know my real feelings, Kirby. I stated them to you in PM yet you still persist in treating me like I'm the stupidest ************ on the planet.

In any case, I might someday decide to give in and make something of my life, but you, you'll always be a Libertarian. May the day never come when I sink so low.

So, put the Ayn Rand down for a moment and quit using the law of the jungle as an excuse to spit on those you consider beneath you, eh?

Yeah, it's almost like knowing your "real feelings" is related to how I treat you.

Were you born this smarmy or did you learn it?

Rand thought she was entitled to go for any guy she wanted without having judgement cast on her, but was a complete hypocrite who went apeshit when a guy did the same thing to her and felt free to get very judgey indeed. Hmm, entitlement and hypocrisy reminds me of someone...can't quite put my finger on who though.

Touche.

Still, given how many of her followers use her philosophy to rationalize their heartless "I got mine, everyone else can starve and die like dogs in the street" mentality, I'm sure you could get behind that much.

In any case, I don't believe we're entitled to whoever we desire, I just disagree with the "you deserve to die forever alone if you're lazy" mentality.

 

[Ophenix]

It's the icing on top of my six pack. It's chocolate sauce on the Sunday of my fingertips as they blaze across the fret board. It's the mother f***in' cherry on top of the shake that is my poetry.

Now I have a troubling image of milkshakes being licked off your icing coated six-pack...

 

[Canyoureadmydeadpan]

Use a skinner box model with women. Reenforce positive behavior in random intervals. It is the most effective method in having women act the way you wish them to, since they will constantly act in a manner to gain that "reward" at random.

Like wise, negatively reenforce bad behavior. Too strong of punishment can be counter productive so be sure to understand the level you will take punishment as a consequence and when to use it.

As sad as it is, women are like animals. They are easily manipulated, easy to train, and no matter how "intelligent" they believe they are they are incapable of seeing when you are playing with their head. Use it to your advantage.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Use a skinner box model with women. Reenforce positive behavior in random intervals. It is the most effective method in having women act the way you wish them to, since they will constantly act in a manner to gain that "reward" at random.

Like wise, negatively reenforce bad behavior. Too strong of punishment can be counter productive so be sure to understand the level you will take punishment as a consequence and when to use it.

As sad as it is, women are like animals. They are easily manipulated, easy to train, and no matter how "intelligent" they believe they are they are incapable of seeing when you are playing with their head. Use it to your advantage.

To be fair, all humans are like that. Not just women.

Actually, I would imagine women are better at manipulation than men are. CONSIDERING IT'S ALL THEY DO.

/shot

 

[AquaAscension]

It's the icing on top of my six pack. It's chocolate sauce on the Sunday of my fingertips as they blaze across the fret board. It's the mother f***in' cherry on top of the shake that is my poetry.

Now I have a troubling image of milkshakes being licked off your icing coated six-pack...

How do you know that wasn't the intention?

Anyhow, this exchange of words gave me an idea for a really egocentric slam piece, so it wasn't all for naught. Actually 2 different ideas came of that post you quoted, but the second is much more nebulous than the first, but that makes sense since it's about supernovae which is not technically quoted there but rather part of the original post.

 

[Paragon Fury]

And so Lara, what happens to all those men whose only real selling point is that they are "nice"?

If a person has *no* selling point besides they are nice? They have no hobbies, no interests, no conversational skills, no smarts, no brawn, no skills, no style, no nothing? They won't be very successful in getting dates.

Why? Because who wants to date a lump? Nobody.

And often, a person who says, "I have no selling point but I'm nice" -- is also saying "my niceness is a component of insecurity and codependency"--which makes the niceness not actually nice but a symptom of unhealthiness. Most people don't want to date a servant with self-esteem issues. And those few people who do? Are also messed up people who will abuse that Nice Person.

So, if you think of yourself as a person who has no real selling point besides being nice? I recommend:
1) therapy to work through self-esteem issues.
2) begin a process of self improvement and growth, not for other people but for yourself.

At the end of the process you should have other selling points besides being "nice"
Having other selling points will help your self-esteem.
Having self esteem makes you less likely to be targeted by messed up people and more likely to get into a good relationship.
Healthy people will find you attractive if you have self-esteem and have points of interest.

So work on that. You don't have to be alpha or extroverted. But you have to have self-esteem and have interests. Having interests make you interesting, being interesting makes people want to be around you.

When all of that is done, then if you see someone you are interested in, Ask them Out for coffee. If you don't ask, you won't get a "sure." It is possible that some person may ask you out instead...but not if you are uninteresting with no self-esteem.

Or better yet, what if if a guy does have interests/hobbies, but they are not the kind that women tend to like or find attractive?

Do they still have to change themselves then, or is it someone else's burden then?

 

[Atmos Duality]

And ultimately, that's why the douchebags and assholes of the world still manage to procreate. Willpower and motivation trumps sensibility, morals and intelligence. We prefer the alphas over the betas, as it were.

Though when it comes to raising children, that makes sense, actually. One must possess confidence, motivation and patience to be a good parent; not just brains.

 

[trooper6]

Or better yet, what if if a guy does have interests/hobbies, but they are not the kind that women tend to like or find attractive?

Do they still have to change themselves then, or is it someone else's burden then?

What would those interest/hobbies be?
Any hobby/interest out there is going to have *some* woman who likes it or finds it attractive. You have to find the right woman.

You like to play Dungeons and Dragons? There are women who like to play Dungeons and Dragons...I've played with lots of them over the years.
You like anime? There are women who like anime.
You like rock climbing? There are women who like rock climbing.
You like computer programming? There are women who like computer programming.
You like A Game of Thrones? There are women who like A Game of Thrones.

So if you are an awesome dude who likes himself, who has interests and passions...then you are a good catch. And you then should hold out (but also seek out) a catch as good as you are...and matched to you. If you love all things Fantasy/Sci Fi...don't go after the popular cheerleader who doesn't care about those things. She may be "hot" but she wouldn't be a good match for you, because you'd have nothing in common...you wouldn't have anything to interest her and she wouldn't have anything to interest you. So find the gals who are also into Fantasy/Sci-Fi and then enjoy lots of conversations about things you both enjoy.

ETA: By the way, considering that one can find partners for any conceivable fetish partner on the internet, considering that convicted serial killers in prison find women who think they are hot, you can certainly find a gal who likes Halo (or whatever it is you think women don't like).

 

[BrionJames]

Honesty is the key. If you can't be honest with who you really are around someone your interested in, then what the hells the point? Be polite, be honest, and be yourself. Your friends will respect you for it. You probably won't be having women falling all over you, but the right ones will.

 

[Twinmill5000]

sure smells like gender wars in here...

if you want to get laid, make it known, but it probably isn't going to help you get laid all that much.

If you want a long lasting relationship, you should make it known you want a long lasting relationship.

Where that sort of falls apart is the latter is much more effective at getting laid, granted you're not afraid to hurt someone's feelings in the process. It leads to a whole lot of suspicion about the opposite sex, especially when you can't exactly read the other person very well (luckily, in most cases you can, but if there weren't exceptions, this wouldn't be a problem).

Another issue is people who want to get laid, and not much more, and think they're ready for a real relationship.

So, yeah, being a nice guy isn't exactly the easiest thing to do, especially not when every douche ("alpha") on the block is trying to act like you for the sole purpose of not having to wank with their right hand that night.

It's why some nice guys are introverts, too. People punish them because, now, not only are they acting like the douches that are trying to act like them, they also don't share the desirable traits a douchey person might have. They come off as creepy. The point of this article was to tell the actual nice people to do those desirable things, so they aren't as creepy, and actual genuine nice guys without flaws.

The problem?

It's more complicated than that. Setting aside the shy people who are truly, truly evil bastards without spines so they can't let the world know about their plans for a second holocost, nice people usually know that, yeah, acting all high and mighty like a supernova may get you attention, but it's also kind of a dick move. Anyone whose good at their trade can vouch for that.

Not only that, but nice people are also very aware of the fact that, by riding your way to popularity by just doing sort of messes up your perspective on things, and defeats one of the biggest things that make a nice guy a nice guy: their humility. Sure, if they're high functioning and rational enough, they may keep it, but I only know one person who has through fame, and even then, it's not completely in tact: The Game Overthinker.

Also, don't get me started on the gender wars. It can go back and forth all day, and with good points and counterpoints, but ultimately, musicians > both genders. Deal with it. You have no idea how mindfuckishly useless music theory is for everything but music. At least with chemistry you can do something like... solving the energy crysis, or something that pays even more like cooking meth (what)!

 

[Combustion Kevin]

here's a question: Have you ever met a person that you can completely describe as nice?

personally, no, and I don't think there ever was, if "nice" is all you can think of about said person you simply don't know them well, if at all.

here is another: What would you choose?
Only sex with no emotional ties whatsoever, or a close, supportive, non-sexual relationship?

 

[Cowabungaa]

Instead, travel your road. Find out where you're going, who you are, who you're trying to be, and then find the person that always seems to be popping up on the same road. Attraction =/= Compatibility, and compatibility can't be faked (forever).

What if no one ever pops up on your road?

 

[Divine Miss Bee]

Instead, travel your road. Find out where you're going, who you are, who you're trying to be, and then find the person that always seems to be popping up on the same road. Attraction =/= Compatibility, and compatibility can't be faked (forever).

What if no one ever pops up on your road?

statistically improbable, but if that happens at least you were happy pursuing your interests and doing things you like. despite what everyone in the world seems to shout from the rooftops at single people, it is possible to live a full life without finding "true love" and i personally am of the opinion that you're more likely to find it when you're perfectly happy without it.

 

[Dastardly]

Instead, travel your road. Find out where you're going, who you are, who you're trying to be, and then find the person that always seems to be popping up on the same road. Attraction =/= Compatibility, and compatibility can't be faked (forever).

What if no one ever pops up on your road?

Then you're being too dramatic. You just haven't walked far enough yet. But the answer is never to change what road you're travelling just to find someone, because once you do, you'll either have to pull them back to yours... or walk theirs for the duration. Either way, there's going to be bitterness there.

See, the exact problem here is that folks want to identify themselves by the guy/girl they "get." If you don't have one, you're "nobody," basically. So you do what you have to in order to get one -- even if it means lying to yourself. If you're the sort of person that can do that, you either:

1. Don't deserve the person you want.
2. Aren't ready for the person you want.

 

[Cowabungaa]

If you're the sort of person that can do that

Dear heavens no. I was wondering because your post seemed to suggest a certain passivity, that you need luck mostly.

 

[Dastardly]

If you're the sort of person that can do that

Dear heavens no. I was wondering because your post seemed to suggest a certain passivity, that you need luck mostly.

Oh, I meant the "general You," not the specific you. Sorry if it seemed accusatory!

 

[Cowabungaa]

If you're the sort of person that can do that

Dear heavens no. I was wondering because your post seemed to suggest a certain passivity, that you need luck mostly.

Oh, I meant the "general You," not the specific you. Sorry if it seemed accusatory!

Oh no probs. Still, that leaves me wondering whether you really advocate a certain luck-based way to go about this. I've mostly believed in making my own luck, as I always had to fight for what I wanted one way or another. So is it really that, or is there a way to make your own luck without resorting to those stupid Nice Guy/self-traitor tactics?

 

[Dastardly]

If you're the sort of person that can do that

Dear heavens no. I was wondering because your post seemed to suggest a certain passivity, that you need luck mostly.

Oh, I meant the "general You," not the specific you. Sorry if it seemed accusatory!

Oh no probs. Still, that leaves me wondering whether you really advocate a certain luck-based way to go about this. I've mostly believed in making my own luck, as I always had to fight for what I wanted one way or another. So is it really that, or is there a way to make your own luck without resorting to those stupid Nice Guy/self-traitor tactics?

If you're seriously not finding anyone, I'm not saying don't adjust at all. I'm just saying be careful what you adjust. For instance, if someone says they know what they're looking for, the list might include:

1. shared hobby
2. similar career goals/income level
3. similar education level
4. shared religious beliefs
5. physically attractive
6. engaging conversationalist
7. located within easy driving distance

And there might be a few "unlisted" traits the person isn't aware of:

8. conforms to notions i've learned from movies/books/etc.
9. relationship follows a similar script or "path" to those stories
10. someone I already know (This is a BIG ONE.)


Sometimes, #8-10 actually replace #1-4. Or more accurately, we sometimes change our answers for #1-4 in order to make #8-10 true. And it happens because we're not aware #8-10 are even there (or we won't admit it).

I'm saying people need to go through that list, decide what needs to be there and what doesn't, and decide what is negotiable and what is not. I'd say that, statistically speaking, #1-4 need to be non-negotiable. You need someone who is compatible with you. #5 is pretty important, because attraction is the root.

But for someone with this list, they might need to decide that #7 is the problem -- perhaps they could look online, which is preferable to "meet local girls in bar." You have more control, you see a wider base of potentials, it's safer...

The idea is to be aware of every item on our "list" first. Then figure out which ones we can/should change. Then decide, from those, which is causing us not to find any results.