Nice Guys Suck

[Atmos Duality]

And ultimately, that's why the douchebags and assholes of the world still manage to procreate. Willpower and motivation trumps sensibility, morals and intelligence. We prefer the alphas over the betas, as it were.

Though when it comes to raising children, that makes sense, actually. One must possess confidence, motivation and patience to be a good parent; not just brains.

 

[trooper6]

Or better yet, what if if a guy does have interests/hobbies, but they are not the kind that women tend to like or find attractive?

Do they still have to change themselves then, or is it someone else's burden then?

What would those interest/hobbies be?
Any hobby/interest out there is going to have *some* woman who likes it or finds it attractive. You have to find the right woman.

You like to play Dungeons and Dragons? There are women who like to play Dungeons and Dragons...I've played with lots of them over the years.
You like anime? There are women who like anime.
You like rock climbing? There are women who like rock climbing.
You like computer programming? There are women who like computer programming.
You like A Game of Thrones? There are women who like A Game of Thrones.

So if you are an awesome dude who likes himself, who has interests and passions...then you are a good catch. And you then should hold out (but also seek out) a catch as good as you are...and matched to you. If you love all things Fantasy/Sci Fi...don't go after the popular cheerleader who doesn't care about those things. She may be "hot" but she wouldn't be a good match for you, because you'd have nothing in common...you wouldn't have anything to interest her and she wouldn't have anything to interest you. So find the gals who are also into Fantasy/Sci-Fi and then enjoy lots of conversations about things you both enjoy.

ETA: By the way, considering that one can find partners for any conceivable fetish partner on the internet, considering that convicted serial killers in prison find women who think they are hot, you can certainly find a gal who likes Halo (or whatever it is you think women don't like).

 

[BrionJames]

Honesty is the key. If you can't be honest with who you really are around someone your interested in, then what the hells the point? Be polite, be honest, and be yourself. Your friends will respect you for it. You probably won't be having women falling all over you, but the right ones will.

 

[Twinmill5000]

sure smells like gender wars in here...

if you want to get laid, make it known, but it probably isn't going to help you get laid all that much.

If you want a long lasting relationship, you should make it known you want a long lasting relationship.

Where that sort of falls apart is the latter is much more effective at getting laid, granted you're not afraid to hurt someone's feelings in the process. It leads to a whole lot of suspicion about the opposite sex, especially when you can't exactly read the other person very well (luckily, in most cases you can, but if there weren't exceptions, this wouldn't be a problem).

Another issue is people who want to get laid, and not much more, and think they're ready for a real relationship.

So, yeah, being a nice guy isn't exactly the easiest thing to do, especially not when every douche ("alpha") on the block is trying to act like you for the sole purpose of not having to wank with their right hand that night.

It's why some nice guys are introverts, too. People punish them because, now, not only are they acting like the douches that are trying to act like them, they also don't share the desirable traits a douchey person might have. They come off as creepy. The point of this article was to tell the actual nice people to do those desirable things, so they aren't as creepy, and actual genuine nice guys without flaws.

The problem?

It's more complicated than that. Setting aside the shy people who are truly, truly evil bastards without spines so they can't let the world know about their plans for a second holocost, nice people usually know that, yeah, acting all high and mighty like a supernova may get you attention, but it's also kind of a dick move. Anyone whose good at their trade can vouch for that.

Not only that, but nice people are also very aware of the fact that, by riding your way to popularity by just doing sort of messes up your perspective on things, and defeats one of the biggest things that make a nice guy a nice guy: their humility. Sure, if they're high functioning and rational enough, they may keep it, but I only know one person who has through fame, and even then, it's not completely in tact: The Game Overthinker.

Also, don't get me started on the gender wars. It can go back and forth all day, and with good points and counterpoints, but ultimately, musicians > both genders. Deal with it. You have no idea how mindfuckishly useless music theory is for everything but music. At least with chemistry you can do something like... solving the energy crysis, or something that pays even more like cooking meth (what)!

 

[Combustion Kevin]

here's a question: Have you ever met a person that you can completely describe as nice?

personally, no, and I don't think there ever was, if "nice" is all you can think of about said person you simply don't know them well, if at all.

here is another: What would you choose?
Only sex with no emotional ties whatsoever, or a close, supportive, non-sexual relationship?

 

[Cowabungaa]

Instead, travel your road. Find out where you're going, who you are, who you're trying to be, and then find the person that always seems to be popping up on the same road. Attraction =/= Compatibility, and compatibility can't be faked (forever).

What if no one ever pops up on your road?

 

[Divine Miss Bee]

Instead, travel your road. Find out where you're going, who you are, who you're trying to be, and then find the person that always seems to be popping up on the same road. Attraction =/= Compatibility, and compatibility can't be faked (forever).

What if no one ever pops up on your road?

statistically improbable, but if that happens at least you were happy pursuing your interests and doing things you like. despite what everyone in the world seems to shout from the rooftops at single people, it is possible to live a full life without finding "true love" and i personally am of the opinion that you're more likely to find it when you're perfectly happy without it.

 

[Dastardly]

Instead, travel your road. Find out where you're going, who you are, who you're trying to be, and then find the person that always seems to be popping up on the same road. Attraction =/= Compatibility, and compatibility can't be faked (forever).

What if no one ever pops up on your road?

Then you're being too dramatic. You just haven't walked far enough yet. But the answer is never to change what road you're travelling just to find someone, because once you do, you'll either have to pull them back to yours... or walk theirs for the duration. Either way, there's going to be bitterness there.

See, the exact problem here is that folks want to identify themselves by the guy/girl they "get." If you don't have one, you're "nobody," basically. So you do what you have to in order to get one -- even if it means lying to yourself. If you're the sort of person that can do that, you either:

1. Don't deserve the person you want.
2. Aren't ready for the person you want.

 

[Cowabungaa]

If you're the sort of person that can do that

Dear heavens no. I was wondering because your post seemed to suggest a certain passivity, that you need luck mostly.

 

[Dastardly]

If you're the sort of person that can do that

Dear heavens no. I was wondering because your post seemed to suggest a certain passivity, that you need luck mostly.

Oh, I meant the "general You," not the specific you. Sorry if it seemed accusatory!

 

[Cowabungaa]

If you're the sort of person that can do that

Dear heavens no. I was wondering because your post seemed to suggest a certain passivity, that you need luck mostly.

Oh, I meant the "general You," not the specific you. Sorry if it seemed accusatory!

Oh no probs. Still, that leaves me wondering whether you really advocate a certain luck-based way to go about this. I've mostly believed in making my own luck, as I always had to fight for what I wanted one way or another. So is it really that, or is there a way to make your own luck without resorting to those stupid Nice Guy/self-traitor tactics?

 

[Dastardly]

If you're the sort of person that can do that

Dear heavens no. I was wondering because your post seemed to suggest a certain passivity, that you need luck mostly.

Oh, I meant the "general You," not the specific you. Sorry if it seemed accusatory!

Oh no probs. Still, that leaves me wondering whether you really advocate a certain luck-based way to go about this. I've mostly believed in making my own luck, as I always had to fight for what I wanted one way or another. So is it really that, or is there a way to make your own luck without resorting to those stupid Nice Guy/self-traitor tactics?

If you're seriously not finding anyone, I'm not saying don't adjust at all. I'm just saying be careful what you adjust. For instance, if someone says they know what they're looking for, the list might include:

1. shared hobby
2. similar career goals/income level
3. similar education level
4. shared religious beliefs
5. physically attractive
6. engaging conversationalist
7. located within easy driving distance

And there might be a few "unlisted" traits the person isn't aware of:

8. conforms to notions i've learned from movies/books/etc.
9. relationship follows a similar script or "path" to those stories
10. someone I already know (This is a BIG ONE.)


Sometimes, #8-10 actually replace #1-4. Or more accurately, we sometimes change our answers for #1-4 in order to make #8-10 true. And it happens because we're not aware #8-10 are even there (or we won't admit it).

I'm saying people need to go through that list, decide what needs to be there and what doesn't, and decide what is negotiable and what is not. I'd say that, statistically speaking, #1-4 need to be non-negotiable. You need someone who is compatible with you. #5 is pretty important, because attraction is the root.

But for someone with this list, they might need to decide that #7 is the problem -- perhaps they could look online, which is preferable to "meet local girls in bar." You have more control, you see a wider base of potentials, it's safer...

The idea is to be aware of every item on our "list" first. Then figure out which ones we can/should change. Then decide, from those, which is causing us not to find any results.

 

[Cowabungaa]

The idea is to be aware of every item on our "list" first. Then figure out which ones we can/should change. Then decide, from those, which is causing us not to find any results.

Well luckily I am that, and I also know exactly what seems to be in the way; 1 mostly. Not that nerd-dom is all I am, but it sure is a large chunk of me. It's just so very very difficult to meet a girl who actually likes a guy who has walls lined with sci-fi and fantasy novels, comic books, a big-ass Star Wars poster and whatnot. Especially near where I live, making even looking online hard. What's someone looking for some companionship to do eh?

 

[DanDeFool]

I may be a Nice Guy?, with a hearty dose of neurosis and self loathing. Any advice?

There's a book for that.

No More Mr. Nice Guy [http://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1322703460&sr=8-1]

I've read (part of) it. It's good stuff.

 

[PhiMed]

I think your analysis leaves out something critical: female responsibility. You're correct that Nice Guys TM have an agenda. And EVERY FEMALE ON EARTH OVER THE AGE OF 14 knows that, too.

And don't forget that they're all members of the Illuminati and secretly rule the world.

Or wait, we can be reasonable human beings and realize that you're just being ridiculous.

But they are frequently content to play innocent, as if they have no idea that the guy living in abject poverty, who works two jobs in addition to attending school, who bought them a $200 gift "as a friend" might have something else in mind.

Or they could assume that the person is a friend instead of a douche who thinks money can buy a gf. Oh no, alternate possibilities!

Yes, these guys are passive-aggressive, unassertive wimps. All the more reason not to allow them to convince themselves that there is a chance. Ever. These guys continue their behavior because women make the conscious decision to allow them to do so. Because they enjoy the attention, because they are craven, small, insecure people themselves. Not all women. Just all the women who allow this to continue.

You're just as bad. Instead you'll whine about how they're all wimps. they're not hypermasculine enough! Get a real complaint, srsly. Dishonesty, entitlement. But no, they're... wimps! Learn to leave the schoolyard taunts behind and grow up.

So stop pretending that you didn't know, and that the Nice GuyTM always brings this up as a complete surprise. You know. 95% of the women this has happened to know. You just wrote an entire article detailing your extensive knowledge of the phenomenon. Accept a little responsibility for enabling these pansies, and shift a little responsibility to those without a Y chromosome.

I bow to your psychic expertise. Or I laugh at you for pretending you think you know that 95% women involved know. But for those who talk about 'pansies' etc... well they're the kind of people who despise actual intellect and reasoning so taking a step back and realizing you don't know everything would be uncharacteristic. Admitting that you don't know would be showing weakness and Thog can't show weakness!

And by the way, there's a reason these men are so timid. Young women, when they reject someone, are vicious. It's socially empowering for a women to publicly humiliate a male. Negative reinforcement is a powerful motivator. Women created these sissies.

Yes, just like your degree is pseudopsychology says.

I was one of them, briefly. Then I realized that there are two options that will result in a woman finding a male attractive (not every woman, mind you, but probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/3): 1)Treat her as if you are GOING to sleep with her. Even if you don't use explicit terminology, become almost TOO affectionate, as soon as you meet them (warning: use only if at least moderately physically attractive). 2)Treat her as if you find her to border on being repugnant.

Did you know 103% of people like you make statistics up based on nothing? Isn't that just stupid?

Stop saying women like nice guys, but don't like Nice GuysTM. Women like jerks. It's well-established.

By the font statistics made up on the spot? Why yes, that's true.

Wow... I'd counter you, but after reading your consecutive, picky, MST3K-on-meth style replies, I think I'd send you over the edge. Here's a tip: edit people's quotes more. They love it.

You're spending too much time arguing with strangers. Seek help.

 

[PhiMed]

I think your analysis leaves out something critical: female responsibility. You're correct that Nice Guys TM have an agenda. And EVERY FEMALE ON EARTH OVER THE AGE OF 14 knows that, too.

And don't forget that they're all members of the Illuminati and secretly rule the world.

Or wait, we can be reasonable human beings and realize that you're just being ridiculous.

But they are frequently content to play innocent, as if they have no idea that the guy living in abject poverty, who works two jobs in addition to attending school, who bought them a $200 gift "as a friend" might have something else in mind.

Or they could assume that the person is a friend instead of a douche who thinks money can buy a gf. Oh no, alternate possibilities!

Yes, these guys are passive-aggressive, unassertive wimps. All the more reason not to allow them to convince themselves that there is a chance. Ever. These guys continue their behavior because women make the conscious decision to allow them to do so. Because they enjoy the attention, because they are craven, small, insecure people themselves. Not all women. Just all the women who allow this to continue.

You're just as bad. Instead you'll whine about how they're all wimps. they're not hypermasculine enough! Get a real complaint, srsly. Dishonesty, entitlement. But no, they're... wimps! Learn to leave the schoolyard taunts behind and grow up.

So stop pretending that you didn't know, and that the Nice GuyTM always brings this up as a complete surprise. You know. 95% of the women this has happened to know. You just wrote an entire article detailing your extensive knowledge of the phenomenon. Accept a little responsibility for enabling these pansies, and shift a little responsibility to those without a Y chromosome.

I bow to your psychic expertise. Or I laugh at you for pretending you think you know that 95% women involved know. But for those who talk about 'pansies' etc... well they're the kind of people who despise actual intellect and reasoning so taking a step back and realizing you don't know everything would be uncharacteristic. Admitting that you don't know would be showing weakness and Thog can't show weakness!

And by the way, there's a reason these men are so timid. Young women, when they reject someone, are vicious. It's socially empowering for a women to publicly humiliate a male. Negative reinforcement is a powerful motivator. Women created these sissies.

Yes, just like your degree is pseudopsychology says.

I was one of them, briefly. Then I realized that there are two options that will result in a woman finding a male attractive (not every woman, mind you, but probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/3): 1)Treat her as if you are GOING to sleep with her. Even if you don't use explicit terminology, become almost TOO affectionate, as soon as you meet them (warning: use only if at least moderately physically attractive). 2)Treat her as if you find her to border on being repugnant.

Did you know 103% of people like you make statistics up based on nothing? Isn't that just stupid?

Stop saying women like nice guys, but don't like Nice GuysTM. Women like jerks. It's well-established.

By the font statistics made up on the spot? Why yes, that's true.

Wow... I'd counter you, but after reading your consecutive, picky, MST3K-on-meth style replies, I think I'd send you over the edge. Here's a tip: edit people's quotes more. They love it.

You're spending too much time arguing with strangers. Seek help.

I wonder what you're smoking because I didn't edit anything you said. Try again?

I don't smoke... anything.

Parsing is editing. Any person who has ever dealt in film, audio, or print of any kind will tell you that. But you probably didn't know that, so I'll just chalk it up to good old fashioned ignorance on your part.

 

[Adultism]

This thread is a massive shitstorm

On topic however, I'm a bit inbetween nice, and a jackass.

 

[Olivia Faraday]

I'm a woman, myself, and basically it comes down to --

There is nothing less appealing romantically than the feeling that someone thinks they're entitled to being in a relationship with you. Nice Guys have this thing about them where they think they're so nice that naturally every girl should want to be with him. Girls can sense that sort of thing. Maybe she legitimately just wants to be your friend, and the feeling that you're constantly judging her relationship choices and comparing yourself to her boyfriends and waiting on the sidelines for her to be "ready" ... it's all really gross to us.

I like nice guys. Both of my really serious boyfriends have been nice guys on the surface. Sweet, shy, gamer guys who always buy flowers and offer to pay but respect me as a woman. (At first at least.) Nice guy #1 turned into a jealous, possessive jerk in the end ... but he was never a Nice Guy. That's something very different, and the main factor in it is entitlement.

Basically: until you can actually be friends with a girl and not sit around judging her for not being your girlfriend, you shouldn't look for girlfriends amongst your girl friends, because they will never like you.

 

[shadowstriker86]

Nice Guy? = Tool.

In my experience, Ive always gone for the "Quick And Painless" approach. See a girl you like? Ask her out. Literally, just say something like:

"Hi, I was wondering if you'd like to go see a movie _____ (insert day or "sometime")"

She says no = Move on. There's 2 girls for every guy in this country/planet so theres plenty to look for.

She says yes = Take her to dinner/show/theater/insert place of interest here.

I don't understand why some guys waste 2+ weeks trying to develop a friendship just to ask a girl on a date only to be shot down. It's insulting to both the girl and the guy, the guy for wasting his time and for the girl, making her think that you wanna be a friend and instead turn out to be what she doesn't want at the moment, a dick.

Imma give the same advice i've given my friends: Be yourself when you're with a girl, have confidence in yourself (that means EVERYTHING, speech, personality, looks, etc.) don't talk about your ex's/past loves, memorize a joke or 2 to make her laugh and be a gentlemen and open the door for her / pull the chair back at a table before she sits down. That's it.

I'm a nice guy with 14 relationships experience and currently in a 5 year relationship. (Told her that i dont wanna get married until i can afford to keep a roof over our heads, cali sucks for jobs right now, thankfully she understands)

 

[Combustion Kevin]

here's a question: Have you ever met a person that you can completely describe as nice?

Absolutely. I know several people I completely describe as nice. They have excellent social skills. They have the genuine ability to listen to anyone and make that person feel like whatever they have to say is interesting. They basically make every person they encounter feel like they are briefly the center of the nice person's world. And it is all completely sincere. Even if they don't like someone, you'll never no it, because they have the manners to never grouse, never complain, never bad-mouth someone behind their back, even if that's what everyone else in their peer-group is doing. They are unrelentingly kind and positive to anyone they meet. Personally, I think they are rather awe-inspiring.

I think you misunderstood me.
I meant: have you ever met a person that you can ONLY describe as nice?
as in, nothing to them but being nice.