Nice Guys Suck

[DeltaEdge]

I'm generally a nice person, bu I'm not afraid to be a dick to people that I don't approve of or at least clearly or subtly express my discontent with or for them. I'm generally quite a kind person, and I usually try to get along with people. If I want to listen to someone's problems then I listen, and if I don't, then um... I guess I'll listen, but I might not really offer much in terms of consolement. I'll tell them my casserole is burning and try to get outta there. But then there are people who I don't like. I will ignore them as much as possible, and I will be short with them. There is currently someone at my school that I find to be terribly annoying and purposefully does things that she knows people find odd and embarrassing, so even though I can tell that she wants to be friends with me, I flat out ignore her. I don't respond to her when she talks to me, nor do I even glance in her direction. If she is talking directly to me, I don't look at her, and if someone is trying to tell me that she is trying to tell me something, then I tend to ignore them until they stop trying to alert me that she is talking to me. So yeah, I am a nice guy, but I am not so nice to people who I don't care for. But unless I am really pissed beyond belief, I still wouldn't curse someone out or use physical violence to make them go away. If someone is really nice, then I might not be a total dick to them, but I can't say that I've found myself disliking anyone that I have found to be nice.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Would be interesting to look into what behaviours women have that foster/reinforce the "Nice Guy TM" behaviour in men.

I think that's one thing that's always annoyed me about the Nice Guy theory, it feels like a cop-out by women.

Well, I'd imagine that some men/women who really like attention string people along to get it. But TBH, I think the real culprit here is the various romantic comedies [http://www.theonion.com/articles/romanticcomedy-behavior-gets-reallife-man-arrested,757/]/tv shows/bioware games that essentially tell people that if you're nice enough to someone you're attracted to, they will reward you with sex.

 

[GrandmaFunk]

Unfortunately, many of the guys who DO have trouble, insist that women don't want them because they are "too Nice".

Ya, but to be fair, that's what women actually do tell them.

These people who call themselves "Nice Guys" can't see that THEIR OWN behavior is the problem. That behavior either drives women away or attracts the WORST kind of predator - one who is manipulative and self-serving. Whether it is targeting women who are troubled to begin with, setting themselves up to be taken advantage of, or acting in a manipulative, patronizing or obsequious fashion, these guys sabotage themselves and often blame "all women" for their misfortunes.

obviously it's always wrong to blame "all" of any group for anything, but surely some women are to be blamed in some of these cases.

yes, Nice Guys set themselves up to be emotionally used by their women 'friends'....but just like it takes two to tango, it takes a woman (ab)using the Nice Guy's issues to get him to that entitlement phase.

ie: a lot less guys would end up in that whiny "but i do everything for her, she should love me!" point if the women in their lives stopped letting the Nice Guys do everything for them.

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I read rants about the evils of Nice Guys, it feels a lot like blaming the victim.

 

[Vamantha]

Thank you Lara for explaining this. I know exactly what your talking about and I cannot tell you how much I hate Nice Guys?. Nice Guys? cannot take the time to pop through their emotional bubble wrap to understand how much of a soul sucking nitwit they really are.

 

[damselgaming]

In my own experience, nice guys are great boyfriends but not great lovers. Just because you are all rainbows and sparkles usually should not mean you are a bit dull in the bedroom department.

 

[Combustion Kevin]

you people do realise that this is the opinion of ONE woman?
bias is inevitable, she likes extroverted guys, that's it, and while that is generally an attractive trait, you may just find another girl who likes the quiet type.

 

[trooper6]

It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I read rants about the evils of Nice Guys, it feels a lot like blaming the victim.

The problem is that Nice Guys (TM) aren't victims...for the most part they are passive-aggressive manipulators who harass their female friends. Tt the extreme end they end up like a couple of those guys like George Sodini who killed women in a gym in Pennsylvania because women don't date nice guys like him.

If you think you're a victim because a woman won't date you...then you are a Nice Guy (TM) and not a nice guy. No woman (no person) is obligated to date you. You are not owed a date by anyone. Not getting a date doesn't make you a victim. A woman turning you down for a date doesn't make her a victimizer.

 

[Kahunaburger]

you people do realise that this is the opinion of ONE woman?
bias is inevitable, she likes extroverted guys, that's it, and while that is generally an attractive trait, you may just find another girl who likes the quiet type.

Plenty of women like quiet men - it's why it hasn't been weeded out of the gene pool. It's more about whether women like creepy, manipulative men (spoilers: generally not.)

 

[Satosuke]

I think people are misinterpreting Lara's point. She's not saying being nice is bad. She's saying being nice is not enough. Being nice is merely a prerequisite; an expected trait that's noticed if lacked but otherwise ignored.

Though to be honest, I know I'm an emotionally stunted jerkass introvert whom no girl would want and thus has never actually given a fuck about relationships, so I could be wrong due to my total lack of knowledge on the matter. Why I even post here is beyond me.

 

[trooper6]

you people do realise that this is the opinion of ONE woman?
bias is inevitable, she likes extroverted guys, that's it, and while that is generally an attractive trait, you may just find another girl who likes the quiet type.

It isn't about extroversion or introversion.

You can be a quiet guy who is interesting, with hobbies and opinions and things about yourself that are cool. And you can be an extroverted guy who has none of that going on.

Her point is that you should have more to your life and personality than just "I'm nice."

Of course if you are so introverted as to have social anxiety and you never leave your house or talk to or interact with people you might be attracted to...it is really going to be hard to end up getting a date.

Introverted or extroverted, you have to put yourself out there. And when you do, you have to have something that will make a person interested in you...something besides that you are a kind person.

If there is *nothing* about you that in interesting...then you need to do some work on yourself before you go off dating other people. You need to become someone who is interesting to yourself before you can be interesting to others. You have to have something to bring to a relationship. If might be your love of anime or your knowledge of birds or yours skills as a writer...but you have to have something.

I never date people who don't have passion for something, who don't have a developed personality, thoughts of their own. They don't have to be extraverts...but they can't be a person with no interest.

 

[Smooth Operator]

Another issue is that being a "supernova" can contradict another common piece of dating advise- "Be yourself"- what if your the kind of guy who doesn't get behind the mike and wear a silly hat? Do you be yourself or sacrifice who you are for the sake of finding someone?

Well it depends on who you want to attract, the timid quiet guy works perfectly well once you are ready for a family, but up to that point the dating games requires you to be loud and proud or, if you don't stand out you will stay behind.

The choice is yours.

 

[trooper6]

oddly the clarification doesn't feel any less insulting and still amounts to : girls don't want nice guys, you're better off being a jerk than being yourself.

You misread it. Gals do want nice guys who are themselves...and those selves are interesting (which might be introverted or extroverted). What they don't want is jerks. Many of the so-called Nice Guys (TM) are not actually nice guys, but jerks...which is why women don't like them.

 

[FinalHeart95]

Oh, so THIS is the guide to being able to date any female you could ever imagine. Thank God women are such simple creatures that the same thing works for all of them. [/sarcasm]

Yeah, I'm incredibly awkward and my current girlfriend somehow finds that to be fine. Probably because I'm NOT a supernova. A lot of people aren't. And if you try to be a supernova, you'll attract people that you don't even like. So screw being a supernova, be yourself.

 

[JMeganSnow]

YES YES YES!!!!!

I've been telling the Nice Guys I meet online for years that if this is how you identify yourself, it just means that you have no discernible personality. Being polite does not mean being conflict-averse. Being kind does not mean being a doormat.

The very worst trait of a Nice Guy(tm) is that you never, ever know what's actually going on in his head. Does he really not mind, or is he just SAYING he doesn't mind while secretly being angry and resentful? Particularly because nobody can willfully Not Mind for very long and they always explode later.

The one that always gets me is when I say (honestly) that I don't mind something (e.g. I don't really care if we go to the restaurant that isn't my favorite this time), and they keep BADGERING me about it because they ASSUME I MUST BE UPSET until I do actually GET ANGRY AT THE BADGERING. I wasn't angry before, dumbass, but I SURE AM NOW CONGRATULATIONS.

Even if you truly are a douche and you like to be cruel to people and resent even the smallest request for patience, understanding, or compromise, it's better to be HONEST about that fact rather than be a Nice Guy(tm)

 

[GrandmaFunk]

The problem is that Nice Guys (TM) aren't victims...for the most part they are passive-aggressive manipulators who harass their female friends. Tt the extreme end they end up like a couple of those guys like George Sodini who killed women in a gym in Pennsylvania because women don't date nice guys like him.

If you think you're a victim because a woman won't date you...then you are a Nice Guy (TM) and not a nice guy. No woman (no person) is obligated to date you. You are not owed a date by anyone. Not getting a date doesn't make you a victim. A woman turning you down for a date doesn't make her a victimizer.

ya, you missed my point entirely. and managed to elevate nice guy tendencies to "potential serial killer watch list" level, awesome.

i'll try to reiterate:

NO, being turned down for a date doesn't make you a victim, and no, turning someone down doesn't make you a "victimizer".

the victim elements comes in the weeks/months/years preceding that.

you claim "most" are manipulators, whereas my point is that they are often the ones being manipulated.

if a man spends months trying to win a woman over, usually by being her emotional dumping ground, obviously it does not entitle him to sex..but if the woman isn't interested, why does she allow this to continue so long? obviously the woman is getting something out of this, and it's fair for her to assume the 'kindness' is given for it's own sake..at first.

but come on, it becomes pretty obvious pretty fast that the guy you friend-zoned is still interested in you and is doing all this with a heart/head filled with hope.

so yes, in this case he is a victim, his weakness is being exploited.

 

[Kahunaburger]

if a man spends months trying to win a woman over, usually by being her emotional dumping ground, obviously it does not entitle him to sex..but if the woman isn't interested, why does she allow this to continue so long? obviously the woman is getting something out of this, and it's fair for her to assume the 'kindness' is given for it's own sake..at first.

but come on, it becomes pretty obvious pretty fast that the guy you friend-zoned is still interested in you and is doing all this with a heart/head filled with hope.

so yes, in this case he is a victim, his weakness is being exploited.

Or, she thinks of the guy as a friend and confides in him because he's a friend. It's not exactly her fault that this friendly behavior isn't on the level, and the situation she ends up in (she has a friend who is attracted to her, she isn't attracted to, and who she doesn't want to lose the friendship of) isn't exactly an easy one to defuse.

 

[KILGAZOR]

This is the first one of these that hasn't made me angry reading, so good job I guess

 

[Silverfox99]

As a person I would hate to be labeled as nice. If that is your identifying feature you are boring and there is not much to your personality. I would rather be identified as funny, charming, intelligent, quirky, or even crazy. Being labeled as nice often means that is the core of your personality. It sounds good, but its horrible. You don't have to be a jerk to get dates and relationships. You do have to stand up for yourself and show that you have confidence. Nice guys don't do this. Why? When they show confidence and stand up for them self they are no longer being nice. The label gets stripped away and a new one gets applied. This is why all of the guys complaining in this forum make me laugh."I am a nice guy not a Nice Guy but here me whine about you saying bad stuff about nice people." Grow some confidence because if you had some you would know the article wasn't written for you or about you and that there is no reason to whine or complain about it.

 

[damselgaming]

if a man spends months trying to win a woman over, usually by being her emotional dumping ground, obviously it does not entitle him to sex..but if the woman isn't interested, why does she allow this to continue so long? obviously the woman is getting something out of this, and it's fair for her to assume the 'kindness' is given for it's own sake..at first.

but come on, it becomes pretty obvious pretty fast that the guy you friend-zoned is still interested in you and is doing all this with a heart/head filled with hope.

so yes, in this case he is a victim, his weakness is being exploited.

Or, she thinks of the guy as a friend and confides in him because he's a friend. It's not exactly her fault that this friendly behavior isn't on the level, and the situation she ends up in (she has a friend who is attracted to her, she isn't attracted to, and who she doesn't want to lose the friendship of) isn't exactly an easy one to defuse.

This a thousand times over. It's bad for both parties when the inevitable 'I'm just not that into you.' comes up because you will lose a friend OR you will have to try and ignore the seething disappointment.

 

[trooper6]

if a man spends months trying to win a woman over, usually by being her emotional dumping ground, obviously it does not entitle him to sex..but if the woman isn't interested, why does she allow this to continue so long? obviously the woman is getting something out of this, and it's fair for her to assume the 'kindness' is given for it's own sake..at first.

but come on, it becomes pretty obvious pretty fast that the guy you friend-zoned is still interested in you and is doing all this with a heart/head filled with hope.

so yes, in this case he is a victim, his weakness is being exploited.

Here is where we are going to disagree. Most Nice Guys (TM) dishonest liars. They say, "I want to be your friend, that is why I"m being so kind to you and listening to your problems."
And the woman says, "Great, because you are in the freind-zone."

Then they have a friendship. Friends talk about each others feelings and hang out. But the Nice Guy (TM) lied to the girl about wanting to be friends just so he can hope to get into her pants...she is not leading him on, he is not the victim. He's a lying, deceiving, manipulative creep.

I have lots of female (and male) friends who tell me their problems, and we go out to dinner and hang out and everything is fine between us. Why? Because I'm not faking friendship in order to get in their pants and then blaming them for not coming around. When I listen to her problems I'm not being an emotional dumping ground...I'm being a friend...and actual friend, not one who is only listening for ulterior motives. And my friends listen to me in return. When I'm stressed out about some creepy thing at work, she is there for me. When she wants to blow off some steam about her boyfriend, I'm there for her. I never feel aggrieved because I'm her actual friend.