Nintendo Failures seem exaggerated

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Roxas1359

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the hidden eagle said:
And?That still does'nt explain why third party devs backed out when the Wii U first launched.By then the system could've sold alot more if the third party devs held their part of the deal.
It's risk versus reward in the industry though, do they risk losing money on a new console for the possibility that they might sell a lot of copies, and if not then they end up out of that money? Reggie even said when they were talking about how petitions don't go into localization things that just because 100,000 people sign something doesn't mean there will be 100,000 sales. It's the same thing on the Wii U in general.

And as for a deal, if they say they are going to do it that doesn't mean they have to or are going to. Verbal promises are not legally binding contracts, and what Nintendo should have done is made actual contracts with the companies and not just gone based on their word because in all industries going based on a verbal promise is about as trustworthy as giving a child candy, telling him not to eat it, and expecting him not to eat it. So when you say "hold up their part of the deal" was there an actual deal, or was there just verbal promises. If there were actual contracts in place, then yes 3rd parties need to legally keep up their part of the deal. If it's verbally word only, they technically don't have to do squat, no matter how much people moan about it.

Sure it'll hurt give them bad PR and hurt their image, but after the slew of bad PR Microsoft has gotten and now they've managed to sell more Xbox Ones than Wii U's in the time frame of it's release (about 3 months) then it shows that bad PR means nothing now.
 

gorfias

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Sadly, no 2DS figures here. From what I hear, Nintendo portable is doing well. I have heard 3ds was as slow to start as the Wii U, but it picked up.



PS4 has caught up a lot to Wii U with it's 1 year head start. Personally, I got my PS4 this month too. As favored devices, they are neck and neck.
 

EvilRoy

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the hidden eagle said:
EvilRoy said:
VG_Addict said:
Nintendo doomsayers don't seem to realize that doing (or in this case, saying)the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
Wait, so what is it called when Nintendo makes the same decisions over and over to pursue their traditional business practices in the face of decreasing consumer confidence, and steadily dropping stock price.

I'm sitting here matching news stories to stock prices trying to figure out why Nintendo keeps losing me money and 'doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result' seems to be accountable for most of it. You can claim up and down that this or that 'might' be bad for Nintendo, but what they're doing now IS bad for Nintendo.
Well when they try to do something different people ***** and moan so Nintendo can't win either way.
What in recent memory have Nintendo done differently that has attracted people ire? Cause I'm not really finding anything. There was a bump when the first rumors started about Nintendo embracing mobile gaming, and then a dip when they actually released their highly unimpressive plan, but the first reactions have generally been good to them changing.
 

Roxas1359

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the hidden eagle said:
Because I'm sick and tired of all the bashing Nintendo gets.
Well they are always gonna get it, just like Sony, Microsoft, PC gaming, the mobile industry, etc will always get it. The bashing Nintendo gets is not unique to only them. Everyone gets it, and it switches around to who's getting it the most depending on what's doing the worst at that moment. Does no one remember how much shit Microsoft has gotten since the Xbox One launched, or how much shit the PS3 got (especially from NeoGaf which is now apparently a "Sony-biased forum" to people) when they launched.
 

Roxas1359

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the hidden eagle said:
For one they tried to innovate in terms of gameplay with motion controls and touch screens.People bitched about that and called them gimmicks.Funny enough both Micfosoft and Sony ripped Nintendo off with the Kinect and PSMove as well as the touch screen built into the PS4 controller so obviously Nintendo did something right.
And people still hate them even with that. It's not like people are saying how they like the PS Move and Kinect more than the Wiimote or the touch screen on the GamePad. Most of the time motion controls seem to be universally panned because they aren't really as intuitive or precise as how regular button inputs can be. The fact that Sony and Microsoft tried it too are just them trying to jump on a bandwagon which all industries do. Hell I would've hoped Sony learned to not try motion controls after the Six-Axis pretty much failed, and the PS3 launched with that.
 

EvilRoy

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the hidden eagle said:
EvilRoy said:
the hidden eagle said:
EvilRoy said:
VG_Addict said:
Nintendo doomsayers don't seem to realize that doing (or in this case, saying)the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.
Wait, so what is it called when Nintendo makes the same decisions over and over to pursue their traditional business practices in the face of decreasing consumer confidence, and steadily dropping stock price.

I'm sitting here matching news stories to stock prices trying to figure out why Nintendo keeps losing me money and 'doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result' seems to be accountable for most of it. You can claim up and down that this or that 'might' be bad for Nintendo, but what they're doing now IS bad for Nintendo.
Well when they try to do something different people ***** and moan so Nintendo can't win either way.
What in recent memory have Nintendo done differently that has attracted people ire? Cause I'm not really finding anything. There was a bump when the first rumors started about Nintendo embracing mobile gaming, and then a dip when they actually released their highly unimpressive plan, but the first reactions have generally been good to them changing.
For one they tried to innovate in terms of gameplay with motion controls and touch screens.People bitched about that and called them gimmicks.Funny enough both Micfosoft and Sony ripped Nintendo off with the Kinect and PSMove as well as the touch screen built into the PS4 controller so obviously Nintendo did something right.
On the contrary, the Wii may have caused arguments with the core gaming group - the one that has now lost confidence in Nintendo - but it drove sales and stock prices to new highs by tapping into a new market. Its only recently that Nintendo has felt the sting of a failed innovation, the new market is unimpressed by a tablet more limited than a Galaxy pad, and the core games have chosen not to return.

As to Microsoft and Sony - neither of their peripherals were received well either, except they also failed to tap Nintendo's market.
 

Panzer Camper

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kilenem said:
While some ports at the moment are coming out well enough for the wii u I had heard that developers were really wanting the next gen so that they could jump up everything from AI to level size to graphics on the pc as pc is controlled by what the consoles can handle. I just don't see any real good ports coming down the wii u line in a couple years. Maybe they will get some in the beginning such as need for speed as you pointed out but cod sold terribly on the wii u and that is not a good sign in the real beginning of the console race. I think the wii and wii u seem to be following the exact same line of eventually brushing off all third party games once they get some decent console movers out of their own. Remember the wii also had some decent third party support in the beginning and we all know how that turned out.

And thanks for the info about how different code was for the ps3 and pc. I really thought they were pretty much the same experience with the same amount of bugs. To be honest i regret buying codmo3 and blops 2 for the most part and did not touch ghosts.
 

Lightknight

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kilenem said:
Lightknight said:
There weren't very many ways Microsoft could have positively spun everything they did. Basically, their only way to have avoided that would have been to properly research their markets before making those huge mistkaes. They're still surprised that consumders don't want those things.
This was pretty much rumors and never confirmed but if you actually could trade digital games that would've probably helped them out because that would've been something that was next gen and something that PC rarely does. I belive you can trade some games on Green man gaming. I didn't really care about the family share rumor thing because you can already do it on the PS3,and PSP. Its probably against the user agreement but you can login into PSN on a different profile on the PS3 download content and any user on the PS3 has access to that content. The PSP is a little bit tricky. The PSP will ask you to save your profile don't do that because if you do someone esle can't log into their account and download content you have to wipe the PSP but not the memory card and you then you can log into multiple accounts. They say you only can download a game to 3 different systems and up to five time total but it isn't true. I'm pretty sure its unlimited.
Even the rumor only said that any single game could only be traded one time permanently and then not again. The idea was to remove the retailer. At best they could only facilitate the transaction or consign it but not get the game from you and then resell it.

What's really bad is if you do succeed in killing retail, what happens once they're gone and the companies you now buy directly from decide to turn up the prices or change the user agreement in malicious ways? Microsoft killed their pc gaming service, didn't they? What happened to those games? What's preventing them from eventually doing that with MS Live for the Xbox? I mean, there's nothing preventing Steam or anyone else either, but Microsoft is the one that has actually done it for one of their services whereas there are games from the 90's that still have servers running to play on.

There were several other things. Like the Kinect 2 for example. To the public they said it's not for marketing and you don't have to send anything over while in the same week the Marketing VP stood up in front of investors and marketing representatives from other companies to tell them that the Kinect 2 represents the next era of marketing directly to the relevant consumers. He even stated to reporters that they only get a "few" points of biometric data (think age, number of people in the family, general health statistics, etc. There really isn't a lot of biometric data that you'd need).

Then you have the basic price point issues and the obvious fact that the Kinect 2 was just pushing up the price despite not really being all that wanted. It's the whole "Forcing" bit that upsets people. Especially when it means more than $100 of the ticket price.

Then there's power disparity of the console, the way they treated people during the conference when they complained about the way things were being done (come on, they made an ass of themselves), the online checkin requirements and everything else.

Even now, the fact that they plan on making up for the power disparity with online processing means that many games will be functionally "always online" because the publishers insist that the game lighting had to be processed elsewhere.

I like my 360. I even just bought a game for it. But the XBO is too big a pill for me to swallow.
 

chozo_hybrid

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Zachary Amaranth said:
VG_Addict said:
OK, I'll bite. How is Miiverse an inferior service?
Have you ever played on a non-Nintendo console?
I got to admit, I'm interesting in hearing a direct answer to this myself, because I've recent got a Wii U and the online store, friends system and playing games online seems just as good as the others I've played. The Miiverse even allows forum type posting and people to share art, I find it's a great online service. But I am interested in hearing how it's inferior by your opinion, because I like to see what others think :)
 

Lightknight

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Gorfias said:
Sadly, no 2DS figures here. From what I hear, Nintendo portable is doing well. I have heard 3ds was as slow to start as the Wii U, but it picked up.

PS4 has caught up a lot to Wii U with it's 1 year head start. Personally, I got my PS4 this month too. As favored devices, they are neck and neck.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. The PS4 is selling at a rate of more than 3 times what the WiiU is selling week over week and the XBO is still selling at around 40% more than the WiiU week over week. At this rate it will only take the PS4 around 6-7 weeks to overtake the WiiU in sales and that's assuming the proportions of sales remains around the same as it did in January when the PS4 hasn't even launched in Japan yet and that market is doing almost exactly the same as Europe for the WiiU so if ths PS4 conquers Japan then it will be another huge blow to the WiiU because this was going to be the generation where the XBO wasn't going ot be in the market so the competition should have been less divided.

Either way, the discussion here isn't really total numbers, it's the rate of sale. That the ps4 can do in 5 months what the WiiU couldn't do in 14 months is bad. You cannot look at just the totals and not account for time. By that logic, the ps3, Wii, 360, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Xbox, Ps2, ps1, N64, Nes, SNes are all squashing the 8th generation right now.
 

gorfias

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Lightknight said:
That the ps4 can do in 5 months what the WiiU couldn't do in 14 months is bad. .
Agreed. But I think Gen 8 has a challenge that others really didn't face. I'm not seeing a huge difference in the quality of visuals I did going from NES to SNES, to N64 and really being blown away by Mario jumping into a painting, to the first time I saw Ratchet and Clank on a PS2, to watching a dead guy float in space in Quake 4... and now... this. It's nice, but nothing has really knocked my sox off. I'm playing Metro Last Light and Bioshock Infinity on a PS3 and they look acceptable.

Did only enthusiasts buy up front? Will we see a huge drop off in numbers in Q2?

Sales to date, I do not think, tell us much either. This is going to be a marathon, not a sprint.

My prediction: Next holiday season, PS4 and Wii U sales will be comparable to each other, but lower than rates of sale of the Wii U and PS3 in the same period.

The Xbox one? Best marketing of the 3, but I'm not sure who will be buying it.
 

Something Amyss

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VG_Addict said:
How is saying that SM3DW sold less in America shifting away points?
How does it have any significance to what I said?

Nobody said anything about "ponies" (I assume you're referring to the derogatory term for Sony fanboys). Nobody even mentioned Sony.
Don't assume. It rearely works out well.

And? What "and" is needed? That's simple business. Putting their games on mobile would cannibalize their handheld sales. What else do I need to say? I'm saying that it would be a bad idea.
It's not simple business. Simple business is that Nintendo is beholden to the shareholders.

the hidden eagle said:
Because I'm sick and tired of all the bashing Nintendo gets.
You're sick of them getting called on bad decisions and a bad attitude? So you're throwing down with the guys who make had decisions and have a bad attitude? I....What?

Nintendo may have problems but good god enough with the hyperbole and how they're going to die when the company has billions of dollars in the bank.They can and will bounce back from this.
I already said they'd likely bounce back. So what?
 

VG_Addict

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Zachary Amaranth said:
VG_Addict said:
How is saying that SM3DW sold less in America shifting away points?
How does it have any significance to what I said?

Nobody said anything about "ponies" (I assume you're referring to the derogatory term for Sony fanboys). Nobody even mentioned Sony.
Don't assume. It rearely works out well.

And? What "and" is needed? That's simple business. Putting their games on mobile would cannibalize their handheld sales. What else do I need to say? I'm saying that it would be a bad idea.
It's not simple business. Simple business is that Nintendo is beholden to the shareholders.

the hidden eagle said:
Because I'm sick and tired of all the bashing Nintendo gets.
You're sick of them getting called on bad decisions and a bad attitude? So you're throwing down with the guys who make had decisions and have a bad attitude? I....What?

Nintendo may have problems but good god enough with the hyperbole and how they're going to die when the company has billions of dollars in the bank.They can and will bounce back from this.
I already said they'd likely bounce back. So what?
No, you STILL haven't answered my question about how the Wii U's online is poor. Stop ducking my question and answer it already. I'm tired of asking this question every time someone complains about the Wii U's online, and never getting a direct answer.

Tell me how SM3DW selling well in NA isn't relevant to this discussion.
 

Something Amyss

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VG_Addict said:
No, you STILL haven't answered my question about how the Wii U's online is poor.
At the point you told me it was good, then admitted that you didn't own a Wii U and hadn't played it, you lost any rights to an answer. You asserted a system you've never even tried is just as good as any other. You lied.

Tell me how SM3DW selling well in NA isn't relevant to this discussion.
Can you make up your mind? Is it selling better or worse over here? And how does that address whether or not it's a system seller in its primary market?
 

VG_Addict

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Zachary Amaranth said:
VG_Addict said:
No, you STILL haven't answered my question about how the Wii U's online is poor.
At the point you told me it was good, then admitted that you didn't own a Wii U and hadn't played it, you lost any rights to an answer. You asserted a system you've never even tried is just as good as any other. You lied.

Tell me how SM3DW selling well in NA isn't relevant to this discussion.
Can you make up your mind? Is it selling better or worse over here? And how does that address whether or not it's a system seller in its primary market?
No. I never said it was good, I said that Miiverse is interesting. I asked what was wrong with it. Whether or not I own a Wii U is irrelevant. I just want to know what's wrong with Wii U's online, after you claimed it was poor and behind the competition. When someone asks you to explain your statement, you're supposed to give them an answer. So far, you've failed to do that.
 

Something Amyss

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VG_Addict said:
No. I never said it was good, I said that Miiverse is interesting.
VG_Addict said:
Other than the account thing, there's nothing wrong with the Wii U's online.
You said there was nothing wrong (aside from FCs) with a service you've never tried. And then you changed the topic. And now you're lying about what you said. It's so easy to look back and prove a statement like this, why would you even do that?
 

VG_Addict

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Zachary Amaranth said:
VG_Addict said:
No. I never said it was good, I said that Miiverse is interesting.
VG_Addict said:
Other than the account thing, there's nothing wrong with the Wii U's online.
You said there was nothing wrong (aside from FCs) with a service you've never tried. And then you changed the topic. And now you're lying about what you said. It's so easy to look back and prove a statement like this, why would you even do that?
From what I've seen, there's nothing wrong with Miiverse. It looks like a fun little service.

And Wii U doesn't use friend codes. Do you even know what you're talking about?

Now, I'm going to ask one last time: What is wrong with Wii U's online?
 

Something Amyss

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VG_Addict said:
And Wii U doesn't use friend codes. Do you even know what you're talking about?
You caught me in a gaff ( saying Friend Code, something I'm very used to saying with Nintendo products) after I caught you in a lie about even using the system. Don't ask if I know what I'm talking about when you admitted you don't.
 

Roxas1359

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VG_Addict said:
From what I've seen, there's nothing wrong with Miiverse. It looks like a fun little service.

And Wii U doesn't use friend codes. Do you even know what you're talking about?

Now, I'm going to ask one last time: What is wrong with Wii U's online?
Miiverse's boot time is absolutely terrible, as is the initial boot up on the Wii U itself. Nintendo's gonna try to fix it, and it is better now than at launch, but it's still a long time. It's also slow with trying to load up the eShop as it takes forever.
eShop is another thing, for Virtual Console games that were on the Wii most of them you have to go through the Wii's boot menu to access them, even when transferring your games to the Wii U and some of them being available on the eShop itself.
Miiverse posts themselves have extremely strict moderators that misinterpret things a lot of the time. Finally, the fact that the entire eShop on both platforms was down for quite a while during Christmas time showed that they weren't up to snuff with their servers. And while Steam crashed over Christmas because of the free Left 4 Dead, remember that Steam has over 65 million users total as of 2013, and over 4 million are usually on at a time.

Nintendo needs to hire a new IT person or improve their servers, because if what happened during Christmas happens when Mario Kart 8 and Smash Bros launch then it'll be even worse for them.
 

VG_Addict

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Jim_Callahan said:
Microsoft is primarily a software company... like, grown-up software, enterprise stuff, OSes, office programs, etc. Their ventures into hardware in general and video games specifically are limited in scope and tightly controlled in such a way that even if they run in the red for decades they won't actually hurt the company.

Likewise, Sony is primarily a hardware company (TVs, etc) and content distributor (movies, music), and their games division is pretty small and cordoned off so its failure can't harm the company.

Also, both of those companies are well-managed and maintain good working relationships with the people actually making 99.99999999% of games people play... third-party developers.

Nintendo ONLY does video games. If their video games suck, the ENTIRE COMPANY is screwed and has to scramble to recover. And they've alienated the third-party people very thoroughly, which... well, the 99.9999999% thing again. So they have no safety net of developers to fall back on. It's legitimately a much, much bigger deal when Nintendo screws the dog.
I'm just gonna point out that Sony is losing money in those other divisions. They're forecasting a $1.1 billion loss this year, and they're laying off 5,000 workers.