No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?

[cobra_ky]

What the hell...

Teaching children that they are all the same physically and mentally would do more HARM than good.
Children don't need to be taught that there are no differences, they need to be taught that there ARE differences but differences are OKAY and that they are what make us special. They need to be taught TOLERANCE and that "We all have the same rights" not "we are the same in every way. shape, or form".

it's a good thing the school isn't doing that, then.

 

[Theseus32]

Just to raise a point here, gender stereotypes have existed for, oh, roughly forty thousand fucking years. The reason? Well because men and women are *gasp* Different!! shock!!! horror!!!

Now I have no issue with women getting paid the same, being treated the same, having the same opportunities etc. But women, and men are DIFFERENT. Not just the obvious genitalia differences, but in many many ways. It's part of the entire hunter-gatherer concept.

There comes a point where you have to separate the notion of having the same rights with BEING the same. Gay marriage? Sure. Pretending two gay men can reproduce? Fucking stupid. Admitting that many women are highly athletic? Naturally. Expecting your buck ten girlfriend to shift a 300 lb dresser while you and your buddy take a break for a beer? Fucking stupid. Gotta draw a line somewhere people. This politically correct bullshit MUST END.

 

[Filiecs]

What the hell...

Teaching children that they are all the same physically and mentally would do more HARM than good.
Children don't need to be taught that there are no differences, they need to be taught that there ARE differences but differences are OKAY and that they are what make us special. They need to be taught TOLERANCE and that "We all have the same rights" not "we are the same in every way. shape, or form".

it's a good thing the school isn't doing that, then.

But they ARE!

Calling boys and girls by the same name, having no traditional fairytales, putting legos in the KITCHEN(wtf), that school is telling kids that a boy is EXACTLY THE SAME as a girl. It is not telling them that boys and girls are different but that's okay. If say in kindergarten a kid who did not go to that preschool starts talking about how boys and girls are different to kids who did attend that preschool, what's to stop teasing or bullying for being "stupid" from happening?

(Also, why specifically place toys at all? Why not have them all in a big pile instead of using a VERY ineffective method at trying to teach kids "equality".

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

And how is that different from saying 'I like girls'?

Not all girls have vaginas.

And what planet are you living on? Biology dictates that, weather you make the choice to THINK your something else is fine. But you aren't. Thats called a fact. Not a guess. Not a social political idea. Just a plain old fact. They are part of life and the sooner you start accepting some of them and moving on with your life the better off you'll be.

Boy and Girl mean fairly specific things. If you want to call yourself something else, again, thats fine. But if you think your "equal" rights give you the right to change the language because you don't happen to like it. Keep dreaming...

It has nothing to do with my thoughts on sex and gender. Some women are born without a vagina, some men are born with ovaries and some people are born with multiple sets of sex organs. Sex isn't black and white. That's a fact, sweetheart.

 

[Gethsemani_v1legacy]

When the doctor takes you from your mother's womb, slaps you on the butt, and looks at your crotch announcing, "Its a .... " ... Hes not trying to make you live your life a certain way. Thats not a social construct. Its a mean of identifying you as being human, of one gender or another, and not a self reproducing reptile. Weather your brain hasn't got a clue what it is, genetics and science do. It doesn't have as much to do with society as it does REALITY. And to be honest we do need words to describe things. Just because it describes something someone doesn't like, really isn't the languages problem, or the society's, or even mine. It would be the person who's having the problem.

You are not getting it. We are not denying that there exists (at least) two different genders and that they are biologically different. We are not even objecting against this fact.

We are however objecting against the fact that that tiny difference (man or woman) in genetic make-up has wide ranging, massive consequences to how you will be able to live your life. Not because one gender mysteriously is less able then the other, but because society tells us that "You've got a penis, you should be this way." and "You've got a vagina, you shoule behave like this."

That is what we object against. That my capability to become pregnant means I've got a whole other (often lesser) status then those of you who can impregnate and that society expects two totally different things from us. We object against the fact that young children learn these inequalities and internalize them long before they've had a chance to say for themselves who they want to be.

It has nothing to do with denying the biologically obvious. It has everything to do with removing the oppressive stereotypes built upon that small foundation of biology however.

 

[Astoria]

And they wonder why kids are acting worse and worse. They are PRESCHOOLERS! They shouldn't be taught about homesexuality and adoption or anything like that until they start asking questions about it which probably won't be for years. Let kids be kids for heavens sake!

Kids aren't getting worse and worse, what makes you think they are? I've hear people say this frequently, but they never actually say what about kids is getting worse; they usually quote some personal experience story, but they can't support these claims.

There isn't anything wrong with teaching kids about homosexuality or adoption, these are things that exist. Teaching them that homosexuality exists won't somehow take away their childhood innocence. If they can handle the mental strain that knowing about heterosexual relationships exist, they can handle knowing homosexual ones exist too..

Of course they can but heterosexual relationships aren't taught are they? I have no problem with them knowing about it but them being taught is a bit too far. Teaching them is making a big deal out of it which really doesn't need to happen. All that needs to be said to a child is a parent going 'sometimes a kid may have two mums or two dads and that's perfectly normal like having a mum and a dad'. That's it really. Anything more just raises questions. They acknowledge that hetero relationships exist but they don't know any other information about it and from the sounds of it they're being taught more than they really need to know at that age.

And with the kids being worse and worse thing it's because of the world they're growing up in. Not being allowed to say him or her is just one example of political correctness going too far and it's only making kids act up more.

 

[ArchBlade]

Ick.

Don't like.

I'm all for promoting equality, especially among the young'ns, but this seems extreme. Kids NEED to be acquainted with their gender. We're aiming for equality, not early sexual confusion.

Seriously, getting rid of "him" and "her"? No. Just get out, don't talk to me anymore.

 

[Romblen]

This is kind of silly. They're putting way too much emphasis on what is the exception.

"A story about two male giraffes who are sad to be childless - until they come across an abandoned crocodile egg. Nearly all the children's books deal with homosexual couples, single parents or adopted children

This is what bugs me the most, I don't have any problems with homosexuality, single parents, or adopted children, but in each case it's not a stretch to say it does not fit the majority of the population(The exception being maybe single parents, I don't know the statistics well enough). There's nothing wrong with those things, but teaching solely on those things teaches kids that homosexuality, single parents, and adoption. Basically it just creates a different stereotype, one that is more inaccurate than the already existing stereotypes they're trying to defeat.

They even try to get rid of the words "him" & "her" (han/hon in swedish) and replace it with a made-up word

This deserves a mention too. Like it or not, in the world one is expected to use words like he and she(or whatever the equivalent is in other areas) when referring to some one. Teaching otherwise just hurts how they will interact once they are outside the classroom.

 

[SteewpidZombie]

Instead of trying to teach ANYTHING about genders, maybe it'd be better to simply let the kids play with their lego? Cause I'm sure that pre-schoolers aren't going to understand (let alone remember) this stuff anyway.

Though the fairytale issue is a valid point, just think about all those Disney Fairytales and what they taught us.

 

[SillyBear]

It's not really fair if they only have books that reinforce homosexual marriages.

Yes, because every-day examples of heterosexual marriages are so hard to come by.

Eh...sorry if that came across as snippy. But really, that isn't an issue.

Why do we always have to swing back the other way (no pun intended) in today's society?

"Homosexuals are being discriminated against? Let's push it in children's faces so they won't become homophobic! Let's replace all their books and lie to them and pretend being a homosexual is the normal thing to be!"

This is all bullshit and the last thing I want my two year old son to be hearing in his kindergarden class is some fucking left wing idealist spewing shit down his throat. Since when did infant school become the target for soap boxers? Why can't we just teach our children fundamentals at school and let them make their own minds up?

Homophobia is an important issue that needs to be addressed, but this isn't going to fix anything. The issue is far more deep seeded than what happens in preschool.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

I can kind of see where they're coming from, but they're fighting a losing battle here, being as these kids are going to be exposed to gender stereotypes elsewhere. Also, something about the sterility of this environment just rubs me the wrong way. It reminds me of the kind of shit you see in dystopian future fiction, where everything is as bland and safe as possible and consequently everyone is a boring soulless shell of a human being. I guess idealogically I don't have any objections to the intention of this particular thing, but I don't think we should shelter children from reality either.

 

[SillyBear]

What the hell...

Teaching children that they are all the same physically and mentally would do more HARM than good.
Children don't need to be taught that there are no differences, they need to be taught that there ARE differences but differences are OKAY and that they are what make us special. They need to be taught TOLERANCE and that "We all have the same rights" not "we are the same in every way. shape, or form".

If children are taught and made to think that no one can be special than when they come in contact with someone or something that IS different or special to what they consider normal it will most likely be received with negative treatment.

Exactly, by I think a far more worrying concern is that these people are setting these children up for a world that doesn't exist. What is going to happen when they leave the idealism of the classroom and start telling job interviewers that they aren't a male or a female. Or when they see an incident of sexism, or see a gender role. Their heads will explode.

This isn't shit you need to shove down the throat of an infant. Leave them be!

 

[LiquidGrape]

What the hell...

Teaching children that they are all the same physically and mentally would do more HARM than good.
Children don't need to be taught that there are no differences, they need to be taught that there ARE differences but differences are OKAY and that they are what make us special. They need to be taught TOLERANCE and that "We all have the same rights" not "we are the same in every way. shape, or form".

If children are taught and made to think that no one can be special than when they come in contact with someone or something that IS different or special to what they consider normal it will most likely be received with negative treatment.

Exactly, by I think a far more worrying concern is that these people are setting these children up for a world that doesn't exist. What is going to happen when they leave the idealism of the classroom and start telling job interviewers that they aren't a male or a female. Or when they see an incident of sexism, or see a gender role. Their heads will explode.

This isn't shit you need to shove down the throat of an infant. Leave them be!

They acknowledge the biological SEX. They aren't acknowledging the heteronormative GENDER.
It's a world of difference, but a point you seem to have skimmed over.

Really, if you believe their preschool years will render these children completely sheltered to our social climate, the one they inhabit whenever they aren't at school, you are seriously underestimating their powers of observation.

I do think people are making a much too big deal of this. They are simply being taught a wider range of things they are likely to encounter in their future lives, and encouraged not to allow the societal perception of gender to define their own interests and sensibilities.
I honestly cannot see the harm in that.

 

[cobra_ky]

What the hell...

Teaching children that they are all the same physically and mentally would do more HARM than good.
Children don't need to be taught that there are no differences, they need to be taught that there ARE differences but differences are OKAY and that they are what make us special. They need to be taught TOLERANCE and that "We all have the same rights" not "we are the same in every way. shape, or form".

it's a good thing the school isn't doing that, then.

But they ARE!

Calling boys and girls by the same name, having no traditional fairytales, putting legos in the KITCHEN(wtf), that school is telling kids that a boy is EXACTLY THE SAME as a girl. It is not telling them that boys and girls are different but that's okay. If say in kindergarten a kid who did not go to that preschool starts talking about how boys and girls are different to kids who did attend that preschool, what's to stop teasing or bullying for being "stupid" from happening?

(Also, why specifically place toys at all? Why not have them all in a big pile instead of using a VERY ineffective method at trying to teach kids "equality".

"Egalia doesn't deny the biological differences between boys and girls ? the dolls the children play with are anatomically correct."

it's almost like some people don't read the article before they respond to it.

No one is suggesting that boys and girls are physically the same. Are boys and girls mentally the same? No, but then no one is mentally the same as anyone else. And nothing is going to stop teasing and bullying from happening.

Specifically placing toys is a very effective way to get kids with different interests playing near each other. Supermarkets use the same principle to get you wandering through the store so you buy more things.

Exactly, by I think a far more worrying concern is that these people are setting these children up for a world that doesn't exist. What is going to happen when they leave the idealism of the classroom and start telling job interviewers that they aren't a male or a female. Or when they see an incident of sexism, or see a gender role. Their heads will explode.

This isn't shit you need to shove down the throat of an infant. Leave them be!

Yes, we're much better off telling them stories about princesses and magic. That's really going to prepare them for the real world.

In case you've forgotten, preschoolers don't interview for jobs. They've get plenty of time between now and then to learn how society actually treats gender.

 

[rokkolpo]

Parents always make things worse.
>_>

There was nothing wrong with the way things were taught.
For reference I played with Lego and Barbie's

Since there are just some story's I can't tell with Lego.
And I like story's.

Im confused. So you played with Lego and Barbie......so youre fucked up forever, but youre fine with it, but youre still against that school anyway?

Uhmm no, I'm saying that as a kid I didn't even recognize the supposed sex difference in toys.
Because there was simply no attention to it.
And now everyone is getting worried about things that don't exist.

Which I think is ridiculous and all the parents fault.

 

[Antari]

And how is that different from saying 'I like girls'?

Not all girls have vaginas.

And what planet are you living on? Biology dictates that, weather you make the choice to THINK your something else is fine. But you aren't. Thats called a fact. Not a guess. Not a social political idea. Just a plain old fact. They are part of life and the sooner you start accepting some of them and moving on with your life the better off you'll be.

Boy and Girl mean fairly specific things. If you want to call yourself something else, again, thats fine. But if you think your "equal" rights give you the right to change the language because you don't happen to like it. Keep dreaming...

It has nothing to do with my thoughts on sex and gender. Some women are born without a vagina, some men are born with ovaries and some people are born with multiple sets of sex organs. Sex isn't black and white. That's a fact, sweetheart.

And we have words to describe those people. Its called Hemaphrodite. If they don't fit into the classification of Boy or Girl, there are other descriptive words to use. Sure they might offend someone but thats just too bad. And trust me, I am NOT your sweetheart.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

And how is that different from saying 'I like girls'?

Not all girls have vaginas.

And what planet are you living on? Biology dictates that, weather you make the choice to THINK your something else is fine. But you aren't. Thats called a fact. Not a guess. Not a social political idea. Just a plain old fact. They are part of life and the sooner you start accepting some of them and moving on with your life the better off you'll be.

Boy and Girl mean fairly specific things. If you want to call yourself something else, again, thats fine. But if you think your "equal" rights give you the right to change the language because you don't happen to like it. Keep dreaming...

It has nothing to do with my thoughts on sex and gender. Some women are born without a vagina, some men are born with ovaries and some people are born with multiple sets of sex organs. Sex isn't black and white. That's a fact, sweetheart.

And we have words to describe those people. Its called Hemaphrodite. If they don't fit into the classification of Boy or Girl, there are other descriptive words to use. Sure they might offend someone but thats just too bad. And trust me, I am NOT your sweetheart.

Well, your idea of sex is very backwards and outdated. Any doctor will tell you that not only do genitals not define sex, chromosomes don't always either.

Ah well. Very sad and disappointing that you feel so wrongly, hun. Maybe if you did some research into modern science and didn't just go by your conjecture and personal opinion you could see.

xxx

 

[Antari]

When the doctor takes you from your mother's womb, slaps you on the butt, and looks at your crotch announcing, "Its a .... " ... Hes not trying to make you live your life a certain way. Thats not a social construct. Its a mean of identifying you as being human, of one gender or another, and not a self reproducing reptile. Weather your brain hasn't got a clue what it is, genetics and science do. It doesn't have as much to do with society as it does REALITY. And to be honest we do need words to describe things. Just because it describes something someone doesn't like, really isn't the languages problem, or the society's, or even mine. It would be the person who's having the problem.

You are not getting it. We are not denying that there exists (at least) two different genders and that they are biologically different. We are not even objecting against this fact.

We are however objecting against the fact that that tiny difference (man or woman) in genetic make-up has wide ranging, massive consequences to how you will be able to live your life. Not because one gender mysteriously is less able then the other, but because society tells us that "You've got a penis, you should be this way." and "You've got a vagina, you shoule behave like this."

That is what we object against. That my capability to become pregnant means I've got a whole other (often lesser) status then those of you who can impregnate and that society expects two totally different things from us. We object against the fact that young children learn these inequalities and internalize them long before they've had a chance to say for themselves who they want to be.

It has nothing to do with denying the biologically obvious. It has everything to do with removing the oppressive stereotypes built upon that small foundation of biology however.

Ya I have to appologize on this one as I didn't get the full picture of what was being said at the time. Learning to deal with the inconsistancies in life is ... well life. Learning to filter them yourself is part of growing up. Throwing a bias twist on what information is presented in either direction is something wrong with the individual presenting it, more than society as a whole. And unfortunately I don't see it being all that possible to completely eliminate personal agenda's in the class room.

 

[Antari]

And how is that different from saying 'I like girls'?

Not all girls have vaginas.

And what planet are you living on? Biology dictates that, weather you make the choice to THINK your something else is fine. But you aren't. Thats called a fact. Not a guess. Not a social political idea. Just a plain old fact. They are part of life and the sooner you start accepting some of them and moving on with your life the better off you'll be.

Boy and Girl mean fairly specific things. If you want to call yourself something else, again, thats fine. But if you think your "equal" rights give you the right to change the language because you don't happen to like it. Keep dreaming...

It has nothing to do with my thoughts on sex and gender. Some women are born without a vagina, some men are born with ovaries and some people are born with multiple sets of sex organs. Sex isn't black and white. That's a fact, sweetheart.

And we have words to describe those people. Its called Hemaphrodite. If they don't fit into the classification of Boy or Girl, there are other descriptive words to use. Sure they might offend someone but thats just too bad. And trust me, I am NOT your sweetheart.

Well, your idea of sex is very backwards and outdated. Any doctor will tell you that not only do genitals not define sex, chromosomes don't always either.

Ah well. Very sad and disappointing that you feel so wrongly, hun. Maybe if you did some research into modern science and didn't just go by your conjecture and personal opinion you could see.

xxx

Not backwards and outdated. Modern and firmly planted in reality. Thank you. And again, I'm not your sweetheart, or your hun, thats another FACT for you.