No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?

HalfTangible

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Snowy Rainbow said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Pray tell me how you're going to deal with biological attraction and the power games inherent within your new society. Regardless of gender. Which you've just censored.
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot who your're attracted to defines your gender and that being attracted to certain physical appearances dictates your personality. Oh wait... It doesn't... Oppsies for you I guess.

And power games? What?? Someone wants to assert their perceived superiority over someone else and that relates to gender... how?
He's saying you're ignoring physical attraction. IE, women that like vaginas, men that like penises, and vice versa.
 

Antari

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The last place this sort of discussion or stupidity belongs in is a Pre-School. You might try living your own life instead of trying to live everyone elses for them. Atleast let them get within a decade of puberty before you start bombarding them with sexuality. About the only thing this proves is that rational thought is a rare thing indeed these days.
 

Snowy Rainbow

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HalfTangible said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Pray tell me how you're going to deal with biological attraction and the power games inherent within your new society. Regardless of gender. Which you've just censored.
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot who your're attracted to defines your gender and that being attracted to certain physical appearances dictates your personality. Oh wait... It doesn't... Oppsies for you I guess.

And power games? What?? Someone wants to assert their perceived superiority over someone else and that relates to gender... how?
He's saying you're ignoring physical attraction. IE, women that like vaginas, men that like penises, and vice versa.
What? This is how that would go:

"I like vaginas."

"Okay."

Next?

RachaelHill13 said:
Ehh, I'm a bit on the fence with this one. While I do think breaking down gender stereotypes is good, and it makes me happy to see stories like Cinderella (and quite frankly, most other old fairytales) being put to the wayside in favor of more equal-gender-biased stuff, they shouldn't just ignore the good ol' fashioned nuclear family archetype completely. Overcompensation is still overcompensation, and it's easy to get carried away with this kind of stuff.

As for the him/her debacle, you have no idea how much I wish there was a gender-neutral word in English. Most people assume (wrongly, but understandably) that all people are either one or the other. Most trans-gendered folk out there are simply the opposite gender of what they were born. However there are cases where people are technically both genders equally

This is pretty much a moot point in the end for this discussion, though. It's been said before that these kids are in preschool, so while I think it is good that we're beginning to actually take things like gender roles into account with how our children are raised, there's only so much we can (and should) really do with kids so young.
I'd love a world where people aren't slapped with a label and told what they are. A world where gender is as fluid as human sexuality. Every time I hear a case of a transsexual having to "admit to people" who they really are, as if it's some big thing, I wanna punch someone, lol. Who gives a flying turd? I wish everyone could just be themselves, no one could care, and no one would assume your gender for you.
 

k-ossuburb

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The only thing I'm really against here is the omission of the fairy tales. I understand that they reinforce certain gender roles, but they're also very important pieces of literature and have some great historical value to them.

But it still doesn't sound completely risk-free as a strategy, shouldn't it be far easier (and more efficient) to just teach them about tolerance and equality by teaching them about the differences we all have and how we shouldn't judge people on them alone? This approach kind of makes a pretty unrealistic world view and it also might have the effect of diminishing the childrens desires to express their individuality or try to succeed above others since it sounds like they just want to teach them that we're all the same.
 

HalfTangible

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Snowy Rainbow said:
HalfTangible said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Pray tell me how you're going to deal with biological attraction and the power games inherent within your new society. Regardless of gender. Which you've just censored.
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot who your're attracted to defines your gender and that being attracted to certain physical appearances dictates your personality. Oh wait... It doesn't... Oppsies for you I guess.

And power games? What?? Someone wants to assert their perceived superiority over someone else and that relates to gender... how?
He's saying you're ignoring physical attraction. IE, women that like vaginas, men that like penises, and vice versa.
What? This is how that would go:

"I like vaginas."

"Okay."

Next?

RachaelHill13 said:
Ehh, I'm a bit on the fence with this one. While I do think breaking down gender stereotypes is good, and it makes me happy to see stories like Cinderella (and quite frankly, most other old fairytales) being put to the wayside in favor of more equal-gender-biased stuff, they shouldn't just ignore the good ol' fashioned nuclear family archetype completely. Overcompensation is still overcompensation, and it's easy to get carried away with this kind of stuff.

As for the him/her debacle, you have no idea how much I wish there was a gender-neutral word in English. Most people assume (wrongly, but understandably) that all people are either one or the other. Most trans-gendered folk out there are simply the opposite gender of what they were born. However there are cases where people are technically both genders equally

This is pretty much a moot point in the end for this discussion, though. It's been said before that these kids are in preschool, so while I think it is good that we're beginning to actually take things like gender roles into account with how our children are raised, there's only so much we can (and should) really do with kids so young.
I'd love a world where people aren't slapped with a label and told what they are. A world where gender is as fluid as human sexuality. Every time I hear a case of a transsexual having to "admit to people" who they really are, as if it's some big thing, I wanna punch someone, lol. Who gives a flying turd? I wish everyone could just be themselves, no one could care, and no one would assume your gender for you.
And how is that different from saying 'I like girls'?

There /was/ a point where there was a gender neutral word in the english language. 'Man' used to be gender-neutral and refer to large groups of human beings, or even just to a few. 'Women' was only used when the entire group was composed of women. Man no longer is gender neutral. Why do you think that is?

Moreover, isn't a large part of homosexuality being treated as perfectly ok that it is in an ingrained part of our personalities, something that can never be 'nurtured' out of us? (ie, nature vs nurture) Wouldn't the same apply to gender roles and likes?

You are SERIOUSLY tempting me to bring up a debate on whether transexual operations actually work. PLEASE don't. I am sick to DEATH of them and would really prefer to just leave them buried in that 'i will never understand' file in my brain.
 

Aprilgold

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I got the wrong picture in my head when I heard 2 giraffes and a crocodile egg.... Oh right, TEACHERS, MAKING THE NEXT GENERATION OF BACKWARD ASS STUPID! This is just.. Wrong, its not teaching shit, kids won't just stand up and say that Construction for Men, Cooking for Women, their minds aren't as smart as people think they are. Hell, the way I see it, don't tell them stories, let THEM find a story and have THEM read it so they can get a taste of choice.
 

Phisi

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Jun 1, 2011
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I have to say I think they're mad. But that is subjective. However I feel this will enforce stereotypes as girls who want to dress in makeup will be shunned by the other girls for enforcing the old stereotype and it'll become not-socially acceptable to wear makeup, skirts, etc and act in a way that would be stereotypical girly now and vice versa with boys. I hope that made sense to you. But I have always felt that this anti-sexism thing as gone to far when people have special anti-sexism things for females (e.g. Scholarships for female engineering students) but if they have the same for males then they are called sexists even though that the males were not alive at the time sexism was widespread. Not to even mention that by having such anti-sexism things are sexist by distinguishing between males and females. And I think that maybe this will encourage this. Just my thoughts.
 

HellenicWarrior

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What do you do with a tired sailor?

Little penguins.

Baa Baa Rainbow Sheep...

Political correctness has gone full circle and become offensive through its own stupidity.
 

Vivace-Vivian

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The alternative books I completely agree with. Though one should not ignore the ?nuclear? family, it shouldn?t be communicated that it is the only kind of family worth even considering in literature. Also, Cinderella? Really? You don?t think that would enforce a negative stereotype at all?

The word differences are whatever, but the point is to not discourage the child?s behaviour if it isn?t harming anyone. For example, if a boy wants to play with dolls, who bloody cares?
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Snowy Rainbow said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Pray tell me how you're going to deal with biological attraction and the power games inherent within your new society. Regardless of gender. Which you've just censored.
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot who your're attracted to defines your gender and that being attracted to certain physical appearances dictates your personality. Oh wait... It doesn't... Oppsies for you I guess.

And power games? What?? Someone wants to assert their perceived superiority over someone else and that relates to gender... how?
Ad hominem arguments and obfuscations doesn't alter that you are attempting to brainwash someone else's kids.

How about you look into all of the case studies since the 60s of what happens to people brought up in isolated communities where normal societal rule was discouraged completely?

I'd start with Baby Boomers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer], then move onto Waco [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege] and Scientology [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology].
 

Snowy Rainbow

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The_root_of_all_evil said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
The_root_of_all_evil said:
Pray tell me how you're going to deal with biological attraction and the power games inherent within your new society. Regardless of gender. Which you've just censored.
Oh I'm sorry, I forgot who your're attracted to defines your gender and that being attracted to certain physical appearances dictates your personality. Oh wait... It doesn't... Oppsies for you I guess.

And power games? What?? Someone wants to assert their perceived superiority over someone else and that relates to gender... how?
Ad hominem arguments and obfuscations doesn't alter that you are attempting to brainwash someone else's kids.

How about you look into all of the case studies since the 60s of what happens to people brought up in isolated communities where normal societal rule was discouraged completely?

I'd start with Baby Boomers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomer], then move onto Waco [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waco_siege] and Scientology [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientology].
Way to assume you would wish to isolate people from each other.

A+ for effort.
 

Snowy Rainbow

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HalfTangible said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
HalfTangible said:
And how is that different from saying 'I like girls'?
Not all girls have vaginas.
YES, they do -_- that's what being a girl MEANS.

No, it DOESN'T mean anything else but it DOES mean that.
And the women born with two X chromosomes and no vagina (or penis)? They are... what? Exactly? I guess they don't get to call themselves female. Sucks to be them. Nope, no matter how much their brain chemistry and mind tell them they are female, no matter how much they look like what they consider female - nope!

You better go rewrite all the medical textbooks, for you'll find sex is indeed NOT defined solely by sex organ in any of them.

That you view gender on such a shallow level sedans me to no end.
 

Flutterguy

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Jun 26, 2011
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They simply are not taking this far enough, on the first day of class they should all be forced to make friends with each other. Don't forget about sex ed and drug awareness, never too early to learn.
 
Feb 13, 2008
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Snowy Rainbow said:
A+ for effort.
D- for avoidance.

How about we look at your own language?

Women, Girl, Female...which are not defined by gender, sexual organs, sexual attraction or anything else. In fact, you never define these terms at all because you've overturned all normal definitions.

Yet still you keep these words and refer to them.


What "exactly" is your definition of a Man and a Woman? Simple question.

Because if you don't have one, you're as bad as we are.
And if you do, you're as bad as we are.
 

Littaly

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The intention is good, the best way to eradicate some of the more absurd gender stereotypes is to not teach them in the first place. I think a lot of what they're doing is perfectly reasonable, but not referring to people by gender is a very big deal that is going to leave very little impact, if anything it's going to make the rest of what they're doing look silly, so that might be going a bit overboard.
 

HalfTangible

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Snowy Rainbow said:
HalfTangible said:
Snowy Rainbow said:
HalfTangible said:
And how is that different from saying 'I like girls'?
Not all girls have vaginas.
YES, they do -_- that's what being a girl MEANS.

No, it DOESN'T mean anything else but it DOES mean that.
And the women born with two X chromosomes and no vagina (or penis)? They are... what? Exactly? I guess they don't get to call themselves female. Sucks to be them. Nope, no matter how much their brain chemistry and mind tell them they are female, no matter how much they look like what they consider female - nope!

You better go rewrite all the medical textbooks, for you'll find sex is indeed NOT defined solely by sex organ in any of them.

That you view gender on such a shallow level sedans me to no end.
Ok, it's also defined by hormones. But i didn't think i NEEDED to say that to someone so utterly and completely devoted to gender and sex debates.

The fact you view yourself as absolutely right and me as a complete dick for disagreeing with you irks /me/ to no end. You come off as an extremely arrogant prick.

I have not read a medical textbook, as i do not intend to become a doctor, or anything that would require me to read said textbook, and i am uninterested in it anyway. So my options on how to view sex lie somewhere between these two extremes:

1) Viewing sex as zero. Nada. Squat.

2) Viewing sex as THE defining role in your life, as ironclad as a social caste.

I chose to lie closer to one, as it seemed the more tolerant viewpoint.

(FTR? I'm asexual. Not straight. Not gay. Not anything in between. Because I'm sure that up until this point you pictured me as a straight religious redneck.)