No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?

[The Funslinger]

Equality and tolerance should be achieved through education, not ignorance.

Exactly. With what they want to do, by essentially eliminating all explanation of difference there's going to be some severe confusion come the sex education years. "did 'hen' (seriously, what's up with that?) chop off his willy? What's a vagina?'

Seems like rather than teach that people should accept differences, people are taking the easy route by trying phase them out and thus mess with the child's basic understanding of the world.

"Egalia doesn't deny the biological differences between boys and girls ? the dolls the children play with are anatomically correct."

it's almost like some people don't read the article before they respond to it.

That's not what I meant. I just mean the whole gender eliminating words thing. What's the point of that? You need description to differentiate. It's like people who are giving a description of someone and are afraid to explain that that person is of a racial minority.

 

[Kakujin]

This slightly makes my brain hurt. Yes it might be a good thing to widen the perspective on gender roles, or on any role for that matter.

However, if this is not done on a larger scale, ie entire city or country, this will in all likelihood be very confusing for these children when they reach school age, and interact with children with a different upbringing.

I am not saying that this is right, in fact it is very sad, but it is equally sadly the truth that anyone who behaves differently, in school, will probably be bullied silly. Not that this means that we cannot change things, or should not, but it does mean that radical things like this, needs to be done on a much larger scale or else its effects will be ruined within a few years.

Also, more specific to the program itself, it has some good ideas, but as usual, takes it too far. What is wrong with saying "him or her", why invent a word that has no practical use? Why only homosexual and single parent books, isn't heterosexuality an equally valid sexuality?

I would also love to see the gender diversity among those who work there. Not to be prejudiced but I seriously doubt that it is a fifty-fifty divide between men and women there.

 

[Kanlic]

Ahh the pussification of our society knows no borders. I hate it when people fail to realize that there are differences in gender, thinking that men and women are the same in every sense but biologically. In terms of legal rights, I'm ok with that idea, but socially the differences are on par with cats and dogs. Guys gravitate to different things than girls, and react differently to situations.

Case and point. One time I was particularly over-served at a friends house. I was sitting on one of those high chairs, the ones that you can put your feet up on, and my friend said I looked a bit pale. On cue I threw up, falling forward off the chair and smacking my head on the pool table in front of me before landing on my face. The boys laughed and the girls screamed.

 

[cobra_ky]

Equality and tolerance should be achieved through education, not ignorance.

Exactly. With what they want to do, by essentially eliminating all explanation of difference there's going to be some severe confusion come the sex education years. "did 'hen' (seriously, what's up with that?) chop off his willy? What's a vagina?'

Seems like rather than teach that people should accept differences, people are taking the easy route by trying phase them out and thus mess with the child's basic understanding of the world.

"Egalia doesn't deny the biological differences between boys and girls ? the dolls the children play with are anatomically correct."

it's almost like some people don't read the article before they respond to it.

That's not what I meant. I just mean the whole gender eliminating words thing. What's the point of that? You need description to differentiate. It's like people who are giving a description of someone and are afraid to explain that that person is of a racial minority.

the thing is that in most cases, you don't need to differentiate. most of the time it doesn't really matter if someone's a racial minority or not, and gender usually doesn't matter either. These kids are going to understand the difference between willies and vaginas, and that's really the only thing that comes close to being a consistent difference between men and women. Beyond that, many adults get confused over what the differences are.

 

[The Funslinger]

Equality and tolerance should be achieved through education, not ignorance.

Exactly. With what they want to do, by essentially eliminating all explanation of difference there's going to be some severe confusion come the sex education years. "did 'hen' (seriously, what's up with that?) chop off his willy? What's a vagina?'

Seems like rather than teach that people should accept differences, people are taking the easy route by trying phase them out and thus mess with the child's basic understanding of the world.

"Egalia doesn't deny the biological differences between boys and girls ? the dolls the children play with are anatomically correct."

it's almost like some people don't read the article before they respond to it.

That's not what I meant. I just mean the whole gender eliminating words thing. What's the point of that? You need description to differentiate. It's like people who are giving a description of someone and are afraid to explain that that person is of a racial minority.

the thing is that in most cases, you don't need to differentiate. most of the time it doesn't really matter if someone's a racial minority or not, and gender usually doesn't matter either. These kids are going to understand the difference between willies and vaginas, and that's really the only thing that comes close to being a consistent difference between men and women. Beyond that, many adults get confused over what the differences are.

Understanding the differences is always better than ignoring them, however. The sooner they're actually taught to live with the differences rather than just ignore them, the easier the kids can cope with them when they become important. As for the race thing, if you were giving someone's description for whatever reason, their skin color would be a key fact in making them recognizable, as would gender.

 

[Avistew]

That's not what I meant. I just mean the whole gender eliminating words thing. What's the point of that? You need description to differentiate. It's like people who are giving a description of someone and are afraid to explain that that person is of a racial minority.

Well, imagine if instead of calling the kids "kids" they constantly said "white kids" and "black kids". There are differences, they can see them, they know them, but there is no point in using different words constantly. They probably do use different words when it's required, but otherwise they refer to them as "kids" rather than "boys" and "girls" and as a result they use gender-neutral pronouns at least some of the time.

 

[William Dickbringer]

I like the idea but don't like the practice there's just something about that just doesn't right
for one thing why get rid of 'him' and 'her' I don't see how that affects anything
and another why only have books that are mostly homosexual single parents or orphans why not have heterosexual ones too I mean we are teaching them equality
I agree with teaching equality I don't agree with teaching political correctness

 

[martin's a madman]

And they wonder why kids are acting worse and worse. They are PRESCHOOLERS! They shouldn't be taught about homesexuality and adoption or anything like that until they start asking questions about it which probably won't be for years. Let kids be kids for heavens sake!

Kids aren't getting worse and worse, what makes you think they are? I've hear people say this frequently, but they never actually say what about kids is getting worse; they usually quote some personal experience story, but they can't support these claims.

There isn't anything wrong with teaching kids about homosexuality or adoption, these are things that exist. Teaching them that homosexuality exists won't somehow take away their childhood innocence. If they can handle the mental strain that knowing about heterosexual relationships exist, they can handle knowing homosexual ones exist too.

Being straight is normal being gay is not. Nothing wrong with being gay it just aint normal and we shouldn't pretend it is.

I know of a 'gay district' in Toronto where there is a very high percentage population of homosexuals, it's certainly normal there. It just depends on the population you're sampling.

 

[William MacKay]

i saw another article about two parents who named their baby Storm and arent telling anyone, not even the grandparents, the gender.

Things don't bode well when you try to seriously incorporate a made-up word.

All words are made up. If the creation of a new word will be beneficial why not create a new word? Language is flexible and should be adapted to our needs. That said the change would have to occur on a much larger scale than one school to do much more than cause confusion.

but the made up word describes something that does not exist. there is nothing that is completely genderless in humanity (to my knowledge). this isnt describing something both male and female, its describing something thats neither.

 

[Zantos]

I find this video to be somewhat relevant. Sorry about the shocking vid quality and if someone already posted it, I couldn't see it but only skimmed through.

 

[sdafdfhrye3245]

Chances are if a kid is going to preschool their parents are not so dumb as to allow their child to grow up to be sexist, and most certainly a child will not even learn about this subject matter until later in their life.

 

[Griffolion]

This is incredibly similar to neglecting to teach young adults sex education in the hope that if they don't know what it is, they won't do it. They'll still do it but won't have the means to do it safely.

There are gender stereotypes, they are part of a psychological phenomenon called schemas. By denying stereotypes, you deny our very way of thinking about things. Teach that differences exist and teach to tolerate them.

 

[The Funslinger]

That's not what I meant. I just mean the whole gender eliminating words thing. What's the point of that? You need description to differentiate. It's like people who are giving a description of someone and are afraid to explain that that person is of a racial minority.

Well, imagine if instead of calling the kids "kids" they constantly said "white kids" and "black kids". There are differences, they can see them, they know them, but there is no point in using different words constantly. They probably do use different words when it's required, but otherwise they refer to them as "kids" rather than "boys" and "girls" and as a result they use gender-neutral pronouns at least some of the time.

I'm not saying constantly separate the two, I'm saying don't shy away from it. Yeah, in a multiracial class you'd just generalize and say "kids", but if it became necessary, you'd use it as a descriptive factor. They shouldn't actively stamp out gender specific words, and actually inventing a gender neutral way of saying him or her is over the top. If necessary to talk to the whole class, you could talk to the boys and the girls by saying "kids" or "children". words like "him/her" are for specific people, though and there's no point in generalizing the gender of one person. (and no, I'm not saying if you were talking to one kid, you'd specify race, that's different.)

 

[Avistew]

I'm not saying constantly separate the two, I'm saying don't shy away from it.

Well in some languages you have to actively create words in order not to constantly separate the two. In English you can say "I'm going to talk to my friend", and nobody knows if it's a male or a female, and there is no reason for it to matter or be relevant, right? But in a lot of languages the word for "friend" is different and there isn't a neutral one.
Actively creating neutral words and encouraging using them in combination with gendered words when they are relevant isn't the same thing as pretending everyone is the same. They're saying that in most context, when saying "go get X, I need to talk to them", using "him" or "her" specifically isn't something that should be required because it's not important. Requiring it makes it sound like it's important, and they want the kids to grow up knowing that it isn't.

In the giraffe story, they did say both giraffes were male. So obviously they use gendered words sometimes. Just not constantly.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Got a penis? You can be a girl. You can be a boy. You can be neither. Both. No one but you know. Forgive me for wanting children to grow up free to decide for themselves what they are, not having titles thrust upon them and told what they are and aren't based on our idiotic understanding of sex. "Oh, you have a penis. You are a boy." No. Screw that. Not only do some men (men with a functioning penis, testes, typical male levels of hormones and a "male brain") have two X chromosomes, some men have ovaries inside them that they never even know is there.

...

You want to overthrow 8000+ years of evolution of language, identity, politics, biology and genetics in a generation?

Please. Do it somewhere else. Then when your society collapses because it has no functioning peer group, come back and we'll try and give you the tools to learn.

 

[LITE992]

In my opinion, they're programming the children. It's ok to love equality and all that, but teach them about that when they're older and when they actually understand. At this age, all kids want to do is live, not fight evil.

 

[Dark Knifer]

This has gone too far I think. They don't seem to be accepting the difference between male and female but ignoring it. These 'gender roles' of guys playing with trucks and girls with make-up etc didn't happen just because someone wanted it to. It's just what they lean to and at that age it doesn't really matter to much.

I'm fine with being open minded but this is more ignorance and not appropriate to be preparing kids for with life because it'll only end badly. Also...

Cinderella: Girl performs housework and endures abuse all her life and is unable to do anything else. Something completely apart from her life, a Fairy Godmother, magically whisks her away to fall in love. Upon not marrying, she then resumes backbreaking housework and abuse endurance until a man, a prince, who happened to be the one she fell in love with, marries her, and she lives happily ever after.

Have I left out any significant plot points?

Cinderella is pretty much the epitome of the ancient female stereotype. All a woman is good for is cooking and cleaning, and the best thing she can aspire to do is to get married to the richest guy possible.

If you ignore the fact that she was being oppressed by other females and rescued more by the fairy god mother then the prince then I could see you interpreting this like that.

 

[Snowy Rainbow]

Got a penis? You can be a girl. You can be a boy. You can be neither. Both. No one but you know. Forgive me for wanting children to grow up free to decide for themselves what they are, not having titles thrust upon them and told what they are and aren't based on our idiotic understanding of sex. "Oh, you have a penis. You are a boy." No. Screw that. Not only do some men (men with a functioning penis, testes, typical male levels of hormones and a "male brain") have two X chromosomes, some men have ovaries inside them that they never even know is there.

...

You want to overthrow 8000+ years of evolution of language, identity, politics, biology and genetics in a generation?

Please. Do it somewhere else. Then when your society collapses because it has no functioning peer group, come back and we'll try and give you the tools to learn.

You need to know someone fits neatly into a box for you to function? If you don't know what gender someone calls themselves, your relations with them will degrade into chaos? If someone's mind and genitals are dissimilar they can't form normal, healthy bonds with others? Well, considering transsexuals, the intersexed, transgenders and men and women born with the "wrong" chromosomes have existed since the dawn of our species, many of whom you've probably met and never noticed, I'm gonna go ahead and guess we can function perfectly fine without your outdated concept of sex.

Good luck treating people as their genitals. I'm gonna go ahead and continue to treat the individual as their personality dictates.

 

[HalfTangible]

They moved the legos next to the kitchen. WHY IS THERE A KITCHEN? These are PRESCHOOLERS.

These people are not removing stereotypes directed towards homosexuals, they're just changing which kind of relationship is stereotyped...

Cinderella: Girl performs housework and endures abuse all her life and is unable to do anything else. Something completely apart from her life, a Fairy Godmother, magically whisks her away to fall in love. Upon not marrying, she then resumes backbreaking housework and abuse endurance until a man, a prince, who happened to be the one she fell in love with, marries her, and she lives happily ever after.

Have I left out any significant plot points?

Cinderella is pretty much the epitome of the ancient female stereotype. All a woman is good for is cooking and cleaning, and the best thing she can aspire to do is to get married to the richest guy possible.

Alternatively, 'true love sets you free', 'abusive (step)parents should be disobeyed', 'be home by midnight' and 'a man shouldn't judge their love by their home life, but by their shoe size.'

...Ok that last one is a joke

...

Shrek posed a good point, why IS it always midnight?

Got a penis? You can be a girl. You can be a boy. You can be neither. Both. No one but you know. Forgive me for wanting children to grow up free to decide for themselves what they are, not having titles thrust upon them and told what they are and aren't based on our idiotic understanding of sex. "Oh, you have a penis. You are a boy." No. Screw that. Not only do some men (men with a functioning penis, testes, typical male levels of hormones and a "male brain") have two X chromosomes, some men have ovaries inside them that they never even know is there.

...

You want to overthrow 8000+ years of evolution of language, identity, politics, biology and genetics in a generation?

Please. Do it somewhere else. Then when your society collapses because it has no functioning peer group, come back and we'll try and give you the tools to learn.

You need to know someone fits neatly into a box for you to function? If you don't know what gender someone calls themselves, your relations with them will degrade into chaos? If someone's mind and genitals are dissimilar they can't form normal, healthy bonds with others? Well, considering transsexuals, the intersexed, transgenders and men and women born with the "wrong" chromosomes have existed since the dawn of our species, many of whom you've probably met and never noticed, I'm gonna go ahead and guess we can function perfectly fine without your outdated concept of sex.

Good luck treating people as their genitals. I'm gonna go ahead and continue to treat the individual as their personality dictates.

And you think the best course of action is to utterly ignore the words 'him' and 'her' entirely? -.- Sorry, but that's total bull, and I think you're just LOOKING for a reason to take the school's side. Physical gender (which 'he' and 'her' are supposed to refer to) is not the same thing as mental (ie, how one acts). They are two different things defined two different ways. Get over it

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'm gonna go ahead and guess we can function perfectly fine without your outdated concept of sex.

You make me laugh. Without any knowledge of who I am, who I know or my thoughts on gender, you automatically fit me into your "ENEMY" box. Pray tell me how you're going to deal with biological attraction and the power games inherent within your new society. Regardless of gender. Which you've just censored.

Good luck treating people as their genitals. I'm gonna go ahead and continue to treat the individual as their personality dictates.

Which is as poisonous as by genetalia - because your vision is already jaundiced. Create your own little dollhouse if you want, we're the people who'll have to clear up the mess afterwards.